Yeah, I can't understand why anyone would be concerned.
Like you've suggested a thousand times to as many people, it must be a racist thing, Cultural Jihad...
Posted on 07/25/2004 11:30:37 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
Does Air Force One have nameless, anonymous, or mysterious Mid Easterners on board while cruising at 30,000 feet? Can you imagine the utter shock and concern of the President, his family and the Secret Service if a number of suspicious, mysterious Mid Easterners started to board Air Force One?
We all know this would never happen as the Secret Service and Homeland Security would never allow this to occur, as the safety and security of the President and his family are a priority and paramount.
My point is, why are the rest of the flying public subjected to this on a daily basis? We have all heard the endless warnings, frightening stories, and nightmare scenarios. We have even been told by the Director of Homeland Security, "We will be hit and hit hard". Yet strange, mysterious Mid Easterners, that have only been in our country a day or two, are on board our flights as I write this.
Imagine boarding a flight with you wife and kids and seeing multiple, suspicious Mid Easterners boarding the aircraft. Imagine your thoughts and concern on a long flight. In my opinion, this is completely unacceptable.
Imagine, if it happens again, and four or five or more flights are brought down killing many hundreds or thousands?
Then what? Will our government continue to carry on business as usual? At what point will the safety of the rest of Americans be a priority and a paramount concern?
Yeah, right, the spectacle of American planes being blown up in midair is a really tickler to my funnybone. (/sarcasm)
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The exact opposite is what has been happening. Remember the medical student clowns in Denny's? The musicians were probably playing a sick little joke: act suspicious, see the other passengers panic. The intent is to deplete our resources and divert our attention.
you mis-directed your comment. you meant to point out that dave s introduced the topic.
THE AIRLINES AND SCREENING SECURITY. I see nothing where anyone has said that the men were in fact carrying anything forbidden, or that should have been caught at security. On a domestic flight, there is no cause or reason to check "expired visas." The folks who complain about "your papers please" would go nuts if the airlines could ask anyone they chose to prove their citizenship -- could you do so if suddenly asked as you board a flight? Now, if there is evidence about the documents they presented as "ID" at bording line security, THAT would be an angle.
THE GIG IN CALIFORNIA. In the early accounts, a lot of folks were sure that this was a real problem because the gig and casino were phony. That has been pretty thoroughly debunked. Real casino, real gig, real band, FBI attended. Also, the big Mehana has a long documented career and cheesy albums, so if it is a cover, it is awfully deep. Of course, it is POSSIBLE for it all to be a really deep cover, but it should arouse at least a little humility that one of the big confirmation points of the "it's a terrorist" argument turns out to be wrong.
THE ACTIONS ON THE PLANE. Here we get to a real question of testimony, but also the heart of the conflict about whether these guys did anything wrong. We have Ms. Jacobsen's version. We have a certain amount of 2d and 3d hand reporting that purports to either confirm or deny how the men acted, how she acted, etc. At this point, I haven't a clue. I can imagine that she is dead on, in which case concern, observation, etc was certainly warranted, primarily from the disregard to seat belts on landing approach, multiple congregating, etc. Mind you, I say if, as I have seen no direct-quote confirmation from other passengers, stewardi, etc. I can also imagine that she was spooked by people who looked mid-eastern, overremembered every time any one of them got up, saw one of them up after the initial descent call [not after the steweard are all down and strapped], etc., etc. I've seen the Rashomon effect in tons of lawsuits. The only item I can throw is that she mentions, IIRC, 3 or 4 folks, going in to bathroom, taking 3 or 4 minutes each, after the stewardi sit down, which runs us up to 15-20 minutes, which is a lot longer than final approach usually takes. But, again, I don't know.
THE FBI and POST-INVESTIGATION. Sounds square to me. If the press is believed, they came out and talked to everybody, followed the guys to the casino, etc. Proper pracice, whether they were really dirty, or pure as snow. The FBI actions don't advance either version of what happened on board. I'd be skeptical of the 2d hand quotes on either side about whether they were supporting the "she's hysterical" side or the "they're weird" side.
THE INS and "EXPIRED VISAS." I'd want to know more. Surely by now, someone should be able to confirm if they are in or out of the country. We have several stories about what "expired visas" mean. Some say that a one-shot visaa expires on entry. Others imply that the papers say, clearly, "invalid after July 1" and this should have been pickled up when they were interviewed, post-flight. I dunno. Remember, we only have Scarborough's guest's sources for the underlying statement. If it is exactly as "others imply" , above, then I agree that someone should fry, and the band should be on a band banned [sorry!] list forever. OTOH, I'd want to see some closer approximation of the paper work before I blithely accepted the "sources."
So, that's my 6 or 8 cents worth. But the whole story is a great example of the poor citizen, just reading the press and the blogs, trying to sort it out. IT would be nice if either officials, or a real digging press would put it all together. Maybe we should all revisit this in a week.
umm.. yep.
Excellent logic, unfortunately wasted on those blinded by fear of terrorism, hatred of Middle Easterners, anger at the Bush administration, and resentment of anyone who might deprive them of a good conspiracy.
Yeah, I can't understand why anyone would be concerned.
Like you've suggested a thousand times to as many people, it must be a racist thing, Cultural Jihad...
Thanks for the comments. If the events were as I was lead to beleive, these guys should be toast. If they were not as I was lead to believe, there quite certainly should be corresponding ajustments to my call for action against them.
No the appearance of the FBI and INS does not signify terrorist activity. What it certianly does signify is that there was an incident or incidents on board that caused the flight crew to request a government response upon landing.
As for the expired Visas, IMO, if any government agency determines a foreign national to be on U.S. soil in violation of his temporary permit, then that person should be taken into custody at the time of discovery, and be expelled at the earliest possible time.
Flight 327's Syrian band identified
You aren't interesting enough to warrant a stalker. Your generic, uncreative and hackneyed responses require no thought to put together, and even less to read.
Now go make one of those stupid 'Loserdopian' animated gifs that are your cliche'd stock-in-trade, and post it, pretending that it is a substantive response to anything at all.
Thanks for the links. I still say that anyone who dismisses this as a nothing-there event simply refuses to face reality in today's post 09/11 environment.
Flight 93's pilot was warned of possible cabin intrusion, but simply couldn't beleive it. Some folks simply can't believe this flight was problematic.
I am not convinced these folks were terrorists, but the remote possiblity does exist that some of them were executing dry runs. "Can we get away with tag-teaming the restrooms to assemble a device?" Who knows? I certainly don't.
Neither do the folks who want to dismiss this lady's observations out of hand.
Nice try Joe, but you're playing fast and loose with the facts here. AF1 doesn't have any anonymous personages on board, of any nationality. The inclusion of the extraneous data about the national origin of the anonymous persons who do not exist is a red herring.
We all know this would never happen as the Secret Service and Homeland Security would never allow this to occur, as the safety and security of the President and his family are a priority and paramount.
No Joe. What won't occur is anyone, of any nationality boarding AF1 without express clearance. It has nothing to do with the nationality of the passengers.
My point is, why are the rest of the flying public subjected to this on a daily basis? We have all heard the endless warnings, frightening stories, and nightmare scenarios. We have even been told by the Director of Homeland Security, "We will be hit and hit hard". Yet strange, mysterious Mid Easterners, that have only been in our country a day or two, are on board our flights as I write this.
Joe, you're one of those anonymous people on board a commercial flight. Of course your point is that you're not Middle Eastern, but I think I've thoroughly shredded that comparison in the preceding paragraphs.
Imagine boarding a flight with you wife and kids and seeing multiple, suspicious Mid Easterners boarding the aircraft. Imagine your thoughts and concern on a long flight. In my opinion, this is completely unacceptable.
Hey Joe, one of those guys could be one of my neighbors. You wouldn't believe what this bastard did: He fled Iran because he was afraid that the powers that be were going to kill the christians like himself. Of course, you can't tell he's a christian refugee by looking at him. You'd no doubt be screaming bloody murder if he was on your flight.
Liberals have co-opted the word racism to the point where conservatives are afraid to use it for fear of being called a liberal. Screw that, your little screed absolutely reeks of racism Joe, and I'm not afraid to say it.
Oh man, that's a crime what you did to Alex Ross's art. Criminal.
what if someone is not a coward, (i see you have discernment), how should they act then?
You can appear to be doing your job without ever encountering any real risk.
Wrong, real conservatives have no problem using the word when it is genuinely warranted, not thrown around as a tool to silence people that disagree, such as yourself.
Screw that, your little screed absolutely reeks of racism Joe, and I'm not afraid to say it.
Of those thousands of innocent victims, that were unfortunate enough to be the ill fated aircraft on 911, and those who died in the buildings, who do you think they would agree with here, you or I?
If those thousands of innocents could somehow appear in a group for a few moments, I'd like to see you to stand in front of them and repeat your politically correct position about racism. For some reason, I am very confident that you'd keep you're big mouth shut.
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