Posted on 07/21/2004 7:59:22 PM PDT by Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh
Archives Employees Suspicious of Berger... devised a coding system and marked the documents they knew Berger was interested in canvassing, and watched him carefully... employees determined that that draft and all four or five other versions of the millennium memo had disappeared from the files after Berger viewed them, WASH POST set to report, say sources... Developing...
One possible alternative explanation could be that the documents in the archives from the Clinton era (1) were not properly classified and accounted for when created due to the Clinton attitude towards security, (2) are so voluminous, and (3) are now not being used regularly in the way we ordinary think of a top secret-SCI document being distributed [with "Copy X of Y Copies" and "Page a of b Pages" on every page and someone having signed for each and every page every time the document leaves a vault file] that the documents have not yet been fully and completely inventoried and logged into the normal classified records system.
That would account for the fact that what we'd think of as normal procedure:
i.e. What I'd have expected:
Guard: "here is a list of the documents, Mr. Berger. Please tell us what you want to see."
Berger"OK, guard x, please bring me #2, #56, and ### etc" "OK, Mr. Berger, here they are. Please sign the log here for each document, inspect to see that all pages are present and initial the log for the presence of each page right along with me"
and when he was ready to leave:
Guard: "You're ready to leave now Mr. Berger? Hope you found what you needed. Let's just get you signed out now. Let's see, my list shows you have the follwing documents (recite list). Let's get each one logged in and quickly check each page to make sure they're all there. I know it's a pain, sir, but it is the procedure."
Unlikely, but possible.
I'm still new at FR, but here are my questions.
FI'm still new at FR, but here are my questions.
1. Were the Guards really watching Sandy Berger or did he slip them a payoff to look the other way for 30 minutes or so. If there was no payoff, then why didn’t they act to stop him? In the private world, they would be immediately fired. Their bank accounts should be checked for any unusual activity. IMHO, somebody got a payoff at several levels for this activity to occur.
2. How could Mr. Berger be allowed in the Archives since he is not a current Government official? I’m sure that the documents related to 9/11 were top secret or better. If any U.S. Citizen has a TS or better clearance, can they get into the archives?
3. Since the Archives are underground and in a hardened facility, I doubt the cell phone would work. If Mr. Berger’s phone did work, it will be interesting to see whom he called during the time the official logbook stated he checked in and out. It had better match the time on the close circuit monitoring system.
4. I have a feeling that the director of the National Archives and select management will be looking for a new job shortly. Even the Government is willing to let heads roll to protect themselves at higher levels.
After reading this and the article in today’s USA of the 9/11 being given a pass by minimum wage workers after their secondary screening, I’m convinced that unless we overhaul our Government at ALL levels, we will never be safe. I know how I’m going to vote in the Primaries and November. It is time to outsource our Government leaders to new blood. Of course, Kerry and his dream team will not be a part of this since he is owns responsibility for the mess. I still feel safer with GW than JFK. After watching the last few years of Government ineptness, something has to change.
I have lost my job twice since 2001 to outsourcing to India and am now selling for a kid making web pages. Here I am almost 50 and my boss is 28 and outsources all the work I signup to either India or subcontractors here in the U.S. He produces NOTHING.
Great point. Methinks No. 2. Today's stories are saying that Bergler convinced staffers to break rules and leave him alone for "private phone calls". There were also frequent bathroom breaks. This sucker is big and Bergler is going to jail. Will others? Time will tell...
Thanks for the ping!
I had considered that. At the very minimum, there is a security manual (itself classified) for that facility that was approved by some overseeing agency - I wonder if the Archives are vested with that authority on their own. While it's quite possible the approved security manual is in need or review and revision, I've no doubt that - at minimum - if the existing proceedures had been followed, this wouldn't have happened.
Our liberal/leftist governor outsources to India the management of the Welfare rolls. The excuse the department uses is -- we don't have enough qualified citizens to do it here. I believe North Carolina does it as well. I feel sure this is a dirty little secret of a lot of governors that are yelling about jobs lost to outsourcing.
This story is bigger than politics, IMO, and hopefully the Wahington Post realizes it, even if Aaron Brown doesn't. The public has a right to know, the timing be damned.
Yes. Most people have no idea what the process entails. The operational guidelines we had to adhere to were VERY well thought out, and really left an offender with no recourse in the face of a violation.
He's in a bad spot. The very fact that he had access indicates that he understood the "terms".
He should be frightened! I've been close to (but never involved in!) incidents involving mishandling classified information, and I remember being ever SO glad that I wasn't the one in the "hot seat"!
But "sloppy" just doesn't describe what he did, given the preconditions he agreed to before gaining access to the information. Would we apply the adjective, "sloppy" to a bank teller who gets caught stealing a quantity of cash from the bank?
I seriously doubt it.
He AGREED to safeguard classified information during access to such information! Such information is classified to PROTECT national interests! But then, apparently for personal/political reasons, he broke his agreement, and put our national security at a lesser priority. ...and this was our former National Security Advisor? Gee...nice guy... :-) Quite in contrast to Dr. Rice I think. Does "integrity" mean anything to these people?
This seems to be a pattern amongst leftists. Their priorities are DEFINITELY out of order! But he stepped into a BAD area with this offence. It's not a very forgiving system, and now he gets to deal with it. :-)
For the subsequent visits, we also need to know who (again, at what level in the National Archives, in consultation with what other agencies (FBI, etc?) at what level?, determined to follow a further protocol that permitted Berger to take more materials, but to be observed (as opposed to being stopped in his tracks and hauled off to the hoosegow tuit suit).
Exactly what protocols were in place in the Archives with respect to these documents, and exactly what protocols were negotiated with whom (Berger, Clinton, Lindsay???) regarding Berger's access for the review.
What I'm suspecting is that documents were in folders or boxes, but not individually logged out to Berger and logged back in -- that's the ONLY way I can think of this wasn't caught the first time a document checked out wasn't checked back in, unless the person checking the documents back in simply let Berger leave and took it upon himself to log the stuff back in, learning then that things were missing. But that degree of logging out to Berger would surely have alerted him he couldn't get away with stealing documents (other than his notes).
The notes question is interesting, as it is an obvious crime to which Berger has admitted. I think Berger should be sweated and sweated good and hard. And then start probing the cell phone calls, etc. He should be indicted on the rocket docket in Alexandria, told in no uncertain terms that his own public statements have convicted him, and that without cooperation, he's going down for the maximum sentence as an example to everyone who works with classified information.
Even Joe Scarborough was shaking his head about how the liberals have changed the issue to be about the "timing".
He said "Now, how do they do that and get away with doing that!" with a very disgusted laugh.
"" And can you name the two possible reasons why government employees responsible for securing top secret national security documents would call a Democratic Party lawyer about Berger's thefts?! 1. They were solid Dem operatives who would do anything for a fellow Dem, even if it meant they went to jail for breeching national security, or 2. It meant that the sting to burn Berger's boss was already being run by the pros at that point... "
What you said make No. 2 all the more likely. Especially in light of the Washington Compost article that Bergler asked for privacy for phone calls--and the staffers broke the rules to allow him. This thing goes beyond the Bergler. I'm thinking Lindsey, perhaps the 'Toon and watch out Ketchup Boy. Perchance to dream....
I hope you are right - but I just don't see the media allowing this story to get legs with an election less then 3 months away -
They certainly aren't trying to push the story - considering the coverage it has received last night and this morning - We'll see -
Very interesting thoughts - and very logical - If this is the case....one would have to suspect chargers are coming -
Washington compost?! "Bergler"?! BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH! :-)
...oh man! That's great! :-)
...yeah...perchance to dream! :-)
Private contractors can get TS or higher clearances based on a need-to-know from the DOD.
Does anybody know if Berger had a clearance at the time of the Archive query?
Even if Berger did have the proper clearance, who granted Berger permission to access these files? Just because you have the proper clearance doesn't mean that you are allowed to access all classified material at that level.
I doubt that soccer moms care about Sandy Berger.
I "think" that the employees at the National Archives were in a touchy situation to say the least. They were most likely very frightened and went into "OMG" mode upon realizing what was happening.
Now, for whatever reason, they've decided to tell the truth about what happened, and the National Archives employees will "probably" get leniency.
As I remember, we use to make notes on classified documents. But to make notes (or "color code") for the purpose of tripping a "classified information thief" is pretty extreme!
Sandy Berger? No. But they can be made to care that someone is being "mean" to "that man" ... The who or the why need have nothing to do with it.
Move - countermove. Once the politics gets into it, it'll be just like watching the sequence from "O, Brother Where Art Thou":
Hell's bells, Mr. Lunn, if we don't the g*d* competition will!Oh mercy, yes. You gotta beat that competition.
Another movie coming soon to a theater near you!
see posts#...356,361,363,366,370,.......more,....(and Moore too?)
/sarcasm
LOL...............
Get more popcorn.....
:-)
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