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Bush campaign wants church lists
CNN ^ | Friday, July 2, 2004 Posted: 10:40 PM EDT (0240 GMT | N/A

Posted on 07/02/2004 8:36:00 PM PDT by Kerberos

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush, seeking to mobilize religious conservatives for his reelection campaign, has asked church-going volunteers to turn over church membership directories, campaign officials said on Thursday.

In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support among conservative church congregations.

A copy of the guide obtained by Reuters directs religious volunteers to send church directories to state campaign committees, identify new churches that can be organized by the Bush campaign and talk to clergy members about holding voter registration drives.

The document, distributed to campaign coordinators across the country earlier this year, also recommends that volunteers distribute voter guides in church and use Sunday service programs for get-out-the-vote drives.

"We expect this election to be potentially as close as 2000, so every vote counts and it's important to reach out to every single supporter of President Bush," campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said.

But the Rev. Richard Land, who deals with ethics and religious liberty issues for the Southern Baptist Convention, a key Bush constituency, said he was "appalled."

"First of all, I would not want my church directories being used that way," he told Reuters in an interview, predicting failure for the Bush plan.

The conservative Protestant denomination, whose 16 million members strongly backed Bush in 2000, held regular drives that encouraged church-goers to "vote their values," said Land.

"But it's one thing for us to do that. It's a totally different thing for a partisan campaign to come in and try to organize a church. A lot of pastors are going to say: 'Wait a minute, bub'," he added.

The guide surfaced as a spate of opinion polls showed Bush's reelection campaign facing a tough battle. (Poll: Sending troops to Iraq a mistake; Interactive: Poll questions and responses)

A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showed Bush running neck-and-neck with Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry among registered voters, 47 percent of whom said they now believed the president had misled Americans about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

The Bush campaign has also been spending heavily on television ads, only to see the president's approval ratings slump to new lows.

Stanzel said the campaign ended the month of June with $64 million on hand.

He had no figures on how much Bush has raised in June.

At the end of May, Bush had raised $213.4 million and spent all but $63 million.

The latest effort to marshal religious support also drew fire from civil liberties activists concerned about the constitutional separation of church and state.

"Any coordination between the Bush campaign and church leaders would clearly be illegal," said a statement from the activist group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2004; antichristian; badidea; bigmistake; church; churchandstate; electioneering; freedomfromreligion; freedomofreligion; gop; gwb2004; irs; justplainstupid; list; lists; mailinglist; religion; religiousintolerance
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To: EternalVigilance

The fact that parishoners would choose to list themselves in a public directory indicates that they embrace a shared fellowship of faith, interest and community with the flock.

I see no reason that a list of citizens who have a set of desired political priorities and outcomes shouldn't be given information on a Presidential candidate's record of performance, and his plan going forward, in the pursuit of those priorities. Christians should know about the President's faith based initiatives, how he's confronted and influenced the despicable abortion cult, his pro-family successes etc. Folks who are secure and welcoming enough to list themselves in a church directory would want to know these things. They're involved.

I see no problem with this, because I am confident that any marketing approach the Bush/Cheney team will employ will be respectful, measured and useful to most all who are engaged. The pastor should put a note in his bulletin or make comments from the pulpit about giving the information away, and give any parishoners who are opposed an opportunity to be removed from the list.

It's really no different than the GOP using Chamber of Commerce membership lists as a prospecting tool. NRA lists. Subscriber lists to WSJ.

It's just marketing your message to a presumably interested voter. The message cultivates support. Ideological support often translates to financial support. You know how it goes. It's outreach to legitimately interested parties.


81 posted on 07/03/2004 6:18:55 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: mollynme
This is precisely what Christophobes like Kerberos fear.

I kind of figured that.

During the revolutionary war they used churches to recruit citizens to fight against their own country.
82 posted on 07/03/2004 6:34:59 AM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium

The poster seems to envision a scenario where Bush/Cheney black glove Ninjas are going to use the lists to seize parishoners and reprogram them for evil like KAOS did to Heimie the Robot.

Myself, I don't think it's necessarily partisan for a minister to warn churchgoers that a vote for John Kerry in November is an express ticket to eternal torment in the fiery bowels of Hell. As long as he doesn't make an editorial comment about the relative desirability of damnation forever to the fiery bowels of Hell, his comments would be considered only non-partisan issue advocacy in the warped world of the lefty 527s, unions etc.

People of faith need to understand the clear choice, and the monumental stakes in this election. We can't wait for Peter Jennings and the soulless Wiccans occupying every position of editorial influence in Old Media to have an epipheny of ethics.


83 posted on 07/03/2004 7:01:20 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Barlowmaker; mollynme; Delphinium; narses; Aquinasfan; Polycarp IV
Representative government has more than a little to do with Christianity. An investigation of how Magna Carta originated and of the authors would illuminate this. Given that the American version of constitutional republicanism grew out of the parliamentary system, so also with Parliament and its relation to Christianity.

On Parliament itself:

Buildings have occupied the site since at least Saxon times, though the oldest buildings still in existence date from about 1097. Edward the Confessor established the origins of the present buildings by building a royal palace on the site from 1050, and until 1529 Westminster was the main London residence of successive monarchs. A fire in that year caused Henry VIII to decamp from the Privy Palace at the south end of the site, to the Palace of Whitehall. Despite this, it remains a royal palace to this day.

On January 20, 1295 the first meeting of the first English parliament was conducted here, and - with some short vacations - has sat here ever since, The House of Commons made its first permanent home in St Stephen's Chapel, a part of the palace.


84 posted on 07/03/2004 7:13:10 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: narses
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Palace_of_Westminster
85 posted on 07/03/2004 7:15:20 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

I'm convinced that the fundamental source of the unparalleled fear, and hatred, of George W. Bush is his open acknowledgement of his love, and service, to God.

I've heard a number of his haters, as they've been melting into madness these past months, recite the same event that absolutely mortified them: Bush was asked, on the brink of the War against Iraq, whether he had consulted with his father to summon wisdom, strength and resolve. W said "I consulted with a Higher father."

Absolutely. The decision the POTUS makes to take America to war is a lonely, grim and torturous one. He prayed for the wisdom and strength to do the right thing. George H.W. Bush, as much as he loves his son, could NEVER have advised him on that decision.

But, that is what drives the soulless Lefties, here and in Europe, to insanity. They think Bush is hearing voices and is visited by apparations. They think he's a madman. They have no idea how the President's faith gives him the courage and peace to accept his responsibility.

This election is a War between the people of spiritual faith and resolve, and those who wish to destroy them and the institutions that empower the faith. That empower America.


86 posted on 07/03/2004 7:21:24 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Kerberos; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...

"So then I gather you are a supporter of the new theocracy?"

Theocracy, what theocracy?


87 posted on 07/03/2004 7:27:53 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: Sloth; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...

"Churches have no business aligning themselves with secular political parties, nor should parties be trying to encourage such affiliation."

Why not? When one party EMBRACES evil, why not work for the other party?


88 posted on 07/03/2004 7:28:51 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: Barlowmaker
Barlowmaker wrote: I'm convinced that the fundamental source of the unparalleled fear, and hatred, of George W. Bush is his open acknowledgement of his love, and service, to God.

Bingo. The howling, wailing, and gnashing of teeth started around the time of the famous "Jesus Christ as-my-favorite- philosopher" disclosure.

I realize that there is a peculiarly pernicious and aggressive strain of secular humanism in American culture which infuses a certain amount of confusion and arrogant junk thought into public discourse, but the ignorance and lack of sound education of liberal secular humanists is really no excuse for denigrating the overwhelming civilizing influence of Christianity and its historic relation to our institutions and noblest endeavors.

89 posted on 07/03/2004 7:29:25 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Delphinium; Kerberos; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Kerebos says: "Which is why the founders incorporated it into our Constitution"

Delphinium says:

What exactly did the founders incorporate into the Constitution that would keep Christians from being a part.

Delph, people get confused. The believe what they're told. They never bother READING the Constitution. the FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE is what Kerebos missed.

90 posted on 07/03/2004 7:32:00 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: narses
The "political party" that pushed through the famous mediaeval Magna Carta of the wonderful 13th-century was "the Army of God" (literally). Cardinal Stephen Langton, the Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury, had something to do with crafting the Latin prose.

As far as I can tell - and I welcome any clarification on this - there is NOTHING in the U.S. Constitution which denies us from still enjoying the securities and blessings of Magna Carta and Common Law. It would be a real constitutional conundrum to throw up the question whether the U.S. Constitution even could deny such principles.

91 posted on 07/03/2004 7:43:46 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

I agree.


92 posted on 07/03/2004 7:45:22 AM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: Barlowmaker
This election is a War between the people of spiritual faith and resolve, and those who wish to destroy them and the institutions that empower the faith. That empower America.

It is becoming so obvious.

I talked to a long time Republican this week who is voting for Kerry....

because she thinks Christians have caused Bush to go to war with the Muslims.

She said "I have had 3 abortions and I am proud of it.

Those were the things on her mind?
93 posted on 07/03/2004 7:50:43 AM PDT by Delphinium
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To: narses
And Natural Law. ALL sound law MUST be in agreement with natural law. It's basic common sense. I would argue that tax rates at or beyond 40% are a violation of natural law. We know where Comrade Kerry is on that score.
94 posted on 07/03/2004 7:51:04 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

Our blessing as humanity is self-awaress. Capacity for shame. Discerning right from wrong because individuals doing the right things, for the right reasons, is a winning societal strategy.

Americans have always been different from the rest of human civilization models through history because we acknowledge the primacy of the individual over the state. The God-individual-state chain of command is singular here. Every individual trumps the State. In theory.

No enemy can defeat us from abroad. The only option for those consumed with tearing down this beautiful structure is to destroy the assumptions underlying our perfect hierarchy. They're trying to remove God and disempower the individual, and elevate the State. Which is them. The Media, educrats, political class and their clients of economic benefit. America's Christian institutions are their singular target.

They're not going to prevail. The Founding Fathers designed a rock of Gibralter. The system has endured through tougher stress testing than lying slobs like Michael Moore and flea-bitten Jihad peasants. The great America is here to stay.


95 posted on 07/03/2004 7:52:45 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: narses
The U.S. Constitution - the system of constitutional republicanism of our government - presupposes a tradition, legal, historic, and cultural, of representative government and institutions which is essentially linked with Christianity. (as the post and link on Parliament's history shows with clarity)

Jay's Federalist Letter (cannot recall the precise number at the moment) underscores this.

96 posted on 07/03/2004 7:56:32 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The howling, wailing, and gnashing of teeth started around the time of the famous "Jesus Christ as-my-favorite- philosopher" disclosure.

All this spiritual warfare causes me to want him elected even more.

we must remember that our battle is more spiritual then physical.

2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
97 posted on 07/03/2004 7:58:11 AM PDT by Delphinium
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To: narses
I guess John Jay, Madison, Patrick Henry, et al. were wild-eyed theocrats. [irony]
98 posted on 07/03/2004 7:59:10 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Barlowmaker
They're not going to prevail. The Founding Fathers designed a rock of Gibralter. .... The great America is here to stay.

I hope you're right. I'm just afraid the steady erosion of that rock by the judiciary is going to eventually change it into something the FF would find unrecognizable.

99 posted on 07/03/2004 7:59:18 AM PDT by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: Delphinium
And I am out of here.

going camping on the Selway River with my grandkids.

Fun! fun! fun!
100 posted on 07/03/2004 7:59:56 AM PDT by Delphinium
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