Posted on 06/25/2004 7:09:26 AM PDT by ijcr
Like the battle at the Alamo, the one fought at the Little Bighorn has entered the realm where history and legend merge. The basic facts are these: on June 25, 1876, seventh U.S. Cavalry troops commanded by Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer came upon history's largest known encampment of Indians beside the Little Bighorn River.
In the battle that followed, Custer and all the men with him—more than 260—were wiped out by the Sioux warriors of Chiefs Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse as well as Cheyenne warriors.
Ironically, the Native Americans' victory hastened their own downfall, as Custer's loss motivated the U.S. government to move even more aggressively against the Indians.
In a sense, Custer never died. Scores of books and movies have been dedicated to his "Last Stand," and even today the battlefield site is the subject of controversy.
Through the 1980s, the National Monument was called the Custer Battlefield, and events were interpreted in favor of Custer and his men.
In 1991 the Park Service changed the name to Little Bighorn Battlefield to introduce a more balanced interpretation of events. A memorial planned to commemorate the Indians who died in the battle promises a neutral interpretation, although its critics charge that it tips the scale too far the other way.
Gravestones mark the last stand of Custer and his men.
Actually, I thought that Korean thing was the 8th Cav. (I acciently said 27th or something above) who was totally creamed at Usan(?) and left behind tons of equipment etc... not the 7th. Sure, both were part of the 1st cav. Div. but still seperate units, right?
That's because they had more respect for the Great White Mother than the Great White Father!
... three Crow scouts who were near their home and on familiar ground, were less intimidated. With their interpreter, they had followed along behind Custer and had watched from a hill as Custer and his men descended a coulee that would turn toward the camp. From the size of the camp that stretched for miles in the valley below--they could not see the end of it--they knew that Custer was starting his last fight. ...A Road We Do Not Know
... Reno later would relate, to a Court of Inquiry, that when Custer ordered him to take three companies and attack the Lakota camp, he was given to understand that Custer with five companies would follow in support. But it was not Custer's style to follow anyone. Besides, he had a plan. With William Graham, I think his plan was to send Reno in to attack the south end of the camp; then, hidden by the high bluffs along the river, Custer would swing around to the opposite end of the camp and "pitch into" the fleeing women and children. The braves, no matter how many they might be, would be thrown into such consternation that the day would be Custer's, and soon: He would detail an escort to hurry Mark Kellogg, the newspaper reporter, to the nearest telegraph with the triumphant news. ...
... From a sergeant who started with Custer on the swing around the camp, but who survived for having been sent back to fetch the pack train--to make sure it would follow Custer and not Reno--we have eyewitness testimony to the occurance of instructive events. On their way round the camp, Custer found some high ground from which to survey the situation in the valley below. From this hill Custer could look down on the Lakota camp. Reno was riding toward the largest Indian camp any of them had ever seen. Lieutenant Cooke, who had followed Reno to the river, already had brought back word to Custer that the Lakotas were not at all running away, but indeed were coming out to meet Reno. Reno's small detachment obviously was going to need some help. ...
...at the first light of dawn that morning, the interpreter for the Crows, Mitch Boyer, the Crow scouts White Man Runs Him, Goes Ahead, and Hairy Moccasin ... in addition to the seasoned scout, Charley Reynolds--all saw the Lakota camp. The camp was 15 miles away, but from the number of campfires venting smoke into the early morning sky, and from the size of the pony herd that they could see moving on the hills behind the camp, they knew that the camp was enormous. When Custer came up to the lookout, they told Custer that they could see the camp, and Reynolds handed Custer binoculars and pointed to where Custer should look to see the Lakota camp for himself. Whether or not Custer saw the camp with his own eyes, he knew that Charley Reynolds and the others had seen it. There can be no doubt whatsoever that at the lookout peak that morning Custer learned exactly where the camp was. But on coming down from the lookout, he told Reno and Benteen that he had not seen the camp, and that he was indeed skeptical that his scouts had seen it.
By the time Custer sent his message to Benteen, he knew that Reno's charge had not gone through. From the position he had reached by that time, a ford at the end of Medicine Tail Coulee was in sight. Custer and his men stopped and rearranged their saddles. Custer pointed down the draw and told Yates to "Charge the camp." We don't know whether this move was intended to be a genuine attack, or just a feint, but we do know the result. The companies of Yates and Smith broke for the river, all lungs no doubt bursting with the battle cry, while Custer with his remaining three companies pulled for the high ground. This lunge toward the camp, real or faked, would draw in warriors for the camp's protection, giving Custer time to swing around and charge the flank. It might have worked. It was a tactic that had worked before. But this time the ground grew Indians. ...
On reviewing that much as is known about what actually happened, however, and remarking the many Indian accounts, with attention to the comments of Mrs. Spotted Horn Bull, a reasonable conclusion would appear to be that those upon whom responsibility for protection of the camp rested most heavily were indeed aware of Custer's approach and had made effective preparations for his reception. A week earlier some of these same Indians had gone out to meet Crook and had worked him well over and would have worked him well over more had not Crook's Crow scouts detected the trap. If they kept an eye on Crook, then they kept an eye on Custer. Today they would set the trap again and this time the bait would be more tempting. Custer's was a smaller force. They would allow Custer to strike the camp itself. By deliberately allowing Custer to strike the camp they channeled him into two open avenues and there they awaited him. Bold Custer rode in. Cautious Reno, seeing "the very ground...grow Indians," turned back.
Custer's commanding officer, General Terry, offered him the use of two of the deadliest weapons invented in the 19th Century, he refused them, and told Gen. Terry that the 7th Cavalry could do the job alone. So he never took the machine guns he was offered. (Colt's patent Gatling guns). Had he taken them, one wonders what the outcome would have been.
Now, why is it that I am not the only one saying this???
Apparently he did........
You're not the only one who now believes Custer was a cruel and inhuman idiot who cared more for his image than his fellow man..........
I doubt that the Gatling guns would have been decisive. They would have only prolonged the battle and in the end would have still been lost........
Thank you.........Now I can cite someone other than my over active imagination.......
Man, that's one bar bet I'll never get to use again.
Indeed the outcome would have been different. Most likely, it would not have occurred. Specifically:
1) Because the guns traveled at a much slower rate then the Calvary, they would have been several days to a week off of the date the battle occurred. The situation would have then been entirely different. This assumes that they would have kept the guns and Calvary together.
2) If they split into groups (as they did just prior to B of LBH), then the Indians would have attacked the weakest of the groups. Remember, the Indians knew where Custer was, he did not know where the Indians were.
Additionally, though Gatling guns were very effective against foot soldiers in the WBS, they would have been less so against mounted Indians. Certainly many more Indians would have been killed and wounded, had they engaged, but because of flanking attacks, the result ultimately would have most likely been the same (an Indian victory).
I had a new digital camera and took over 1000 pictures on the trip including ones where I stitched together to form a panorama. The talks by the Park Service people were excellent and the book store is well stocked. I'm looking to purchase a replica of the Springfield Trapdoor they used (Pedersolli makes a working model).
The Springfield worked well if you could keep the Indians at a distance and fight an organized fight with skirmishers, thus it didn't work well for Custers troops who were overwhelmed at close range. I think that tactics played a major factor in the defeat of Custers 5 companies.
The Sioux were great fighters, and I read that the best calvary in the west were the Cheyenne. When you hear about Native Code Talkers most often it is Navajo, but Cheyenne Code Talkers were also used in WWII.
As I said, Ft. Abraham Lincoln is an incredible tour. The guides make you feel like you are back in the 1870s. It was interesting to tour the barracks - the beds were real short. Soldiers slept half sitting up in them because of consumption. They are supposedly rebuilding the entire fort - and I make annual contributions. They have the Custer House, support buildings (grannery, stable, post exchange), and a barracks. The infantry fort is on the hill overlooking the calvary fort. There's also the Mandan village which has ties to Lewis and Clark. Lots to see.
I have a book that allows you to follow the rout of the 7th from Ft. Abraham Lincoln to LBH. We'll go that way next time (probably when I retire).
The 7th had to deal with one of the worst blizzards in old west history on their way to LBH. The gatlin guns were left behind with the rest of the column at the Rosebud and Missouri because they would slow Custer down. Custer turned down several companies of 2nd Calvary (I think it was 2nd) as well. They left their sabres behind (they were transported in crates back to Ft. Abraham Lincoln on the Far West) because they made too much noise however I read that when they were travelling at night (in the dark) they would tap their tin cup on their saddle horn to make sure the guy behind them wouldn't get lost.
I believe that the other tribes were used in Europe, correct? I elieve they had Cheyenne, Creek, and others in the European Front IIRC
Aside from the alarming tendency for the cartridge case to break and jam the action. A History Channel presentation on the battle claimed that large numbers of pen knives and pocket knives were found on the battlefield, indicating the soldiers were having to pry the cartridge cases out of their weapons.
I believe Major Reno documented this in an after-action report on the LBH. There may well have been a problem with the extraction mechanism. There was definitely a problem with training. An anxious trooper had a tendency toward more jams. I believe that it would have been better for thr Calvary to have the Henry or Winchester and the Infantry to have the Springfield.
I just want to make sure I understand this.
The Lakota had a treaty - specifically, the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868 - that made their land off-limits to white settlement. The land was pursued aggressively, though (the government tried to purchase the land), after an expedition led by Custer discovered gold in the area. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs then set aside the Fort Laramie Treaty and declared that all Lakota refusing to resettle on reservations would be considered hostile.
The Lakota fought to defend their land, and eventually camped in the valley of the Little Bighorn River, where this confrontation took place.
So this was really about some people reneging on an agreement with the Indians, and getting their asses handed to them in the process.
That about right?
That sums it up about as well as it could be summed up.
I guess I don't understand why Custer is regarded as some kind of brave and valiant hero. He sounds a little thuggish to me. (If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will be right along to "set me straight".)
Because schools have always been selective in what they teach, and it has been 128 years of spin...
Did the indians have guns or was there just too many for every soldiers repeating rifle?
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