Posted on 06/24/2004 3:57:10 PM PDT by Woahhs
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Israeli-made bullets bought by the U.S. Army to plug a shortfall should be used for training only, not to fight Muslim guerrillas in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. lawmakers told Army generals on Thursday.
Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized," said Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, the top Democrat on a House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee with jurisdiction over land forces.
The Army contracted with Israel Military Industries Ltd. in December for $70 million in small-caliber ammunition.
The Israeli firm was one of only two worldwide that could meet U.S. technical specifications and delivery needs, said Brig. Gen. Paul Izzo, the Army's program executive officer for ammunition. The other was East Alton, Illinois-based Winchester Ammunition, which also received a $70 million contract.
Although the Army should not have to worry about "political correctness," Abercrombie was making a valid point about the propaganda pitfalls of using Israeli rounds in the U.S.-declared war on terror, said Rep. Curt Weldon, the Pennsylvania Republican who chairs the subcommittee on tactical air and land forces.
"There's a sensitivity that I think all of us recognize," Weldon told the Army witnesses, including Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, who led the U.S. Third Infantry Division that captured Baghdad in April 2003.
Blount, now the Army's assistant deputy chief of staff, said the Army had sufficient small caliber ammunition -- 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .50 caliber -- to conduct current operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.
But taken together with training needs, the United States had strained its production facilities, he testified.
"To fight a major combat operation in another theater will require the Army to impose restrictions on training expenditures and to focus current inventory and new production on combat operations," Blount said.
As a result, he said the Army hoped to stretch U.S. supplies to supplement the capacity of the government-owned Lake City plant in Independence, Missouri, that currently makes more than 90 percent of U.S. small caliber ammunition.
The Lake City factory, operated by Alliant Techsystems Inc., has nearly quadrupled its production in the past four years. This year, it will produce more than 1.2 billion rounds, Karen Davies, president of the ATK arm that runs it, told the panel. Lake City provided more than 2 billion rounds a year during World War II and Vietnam, she said.
The Army's needs will grow to about 1.5 billion to 1.7 billion rounds a year in coming years, Blount said.
"In the near-term, balancing training requirements with current operational needs is a manageable risk-mitigation strategy," he said.
The Army does not want to repeat its history of building capacity during wartime "only to dismantle it in peacetime," Blount added.
If only!
IMI makes great ammo. Q3131A Winchester white box is made by IMI. (Q3131 is made in USA and not as good) I've shot their M193, M855 and .45 ammo. Not a single bad round and I've shot a lot of them.
I suggest an inscription in arabic that says "Say hello to your pedophile prophet and enjoy your 72 virgins. Love, Uncle Sam".
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BUMP!!
dumb point on the congresscritter's part
the bullet down range doesn't know where it came from, and anyone struck doesn't look for the "made in ____" on the round.
Re
#50;
During VietNam the CIA used to supply "Friendlies" with weapons and ammo that did not want to be traceable back to where it came from (although I'm sure that everybody knew).
Thus came the "Sneaks" - AK-47s deviod of any markings whatsoever, apparently made by unidentified American contractors. And I was told back in '69 by a Member of the US Ordnance Dept. T&E Team at Ft. Benning that they were among the best-made AKs ever produced.
To this day, I don't think that we are supposed to know this.
I picked up a bunch of Boxer-primed 7.62 X 39MM brass at the range a few years back, the heads of which are smooth and completely unmarked. Probably some former Spook using up his Sneaks.
In WW-II the Nazis used codes - usually a 3-letter "initial" - on weapons and (I think) ammo as well to conceal their source.
So our Troops are expected to let the JihaddiThugs over run their position and decapitate them all before trying to defend themselves with ammunition considered un-kosher by the Mullahs, eh?
Oh; BTW - it seems to me that some of the IMI ammo does have a little Star of David stamp on the head. (?)
This makes about as much sense as the prohibition of flying or even showing a US Flag on our Bases over there - which as far as I know is still in effect. The entire population of Iraq will rise up against us if we dare "offend" them, we are assured.
Not only am I pretty sure that that scenario is pretty unlikely, one particular word comes to mind if it ever did;
"Meggaton".
The next thing you know we won't be able to use any other than Islamic-Shaira approved ammo... which doesn't have any powder in it of course. Actually hurting someone who wants to kill you might offend them.
And as far as this "plenty of ammo" claim, you can't prove it by my Friend over in Mosul; they have to barter and beg for ammo from surrounding units, or even the Danish, in order to fend off almost nightly attacks.
We might as well be under the direct command and control of the UN already; if Kerry steals this election it looks like he won't have to change much in the way of our current PC WOT strategy.
And you are absolutely right; as much as I hate to admit it, this IS starting to smell a lot like VietNam. For all the same reasons, too.
This also opens a slew of previously closed doors.
Next there's probably a plan forcing "Only Non-Israel Ammo Used Here" printed in arabic on all military vehicles.
When politicans fight wars, we lose. Dignity is first out the window.
Oh well, it's just hyperbole.
RE #113:
(If we offend them)..."... we'd have 25 million folks suddenly wanting our blood."
The similarities between Islammists and Liberals are increasingly clear;
If you dare "offend" one of them, then off with your head!
And If your contention is true, then we are sitting on a global powder keg, and it's only a matter of time before someone intentionally or inadvertantly insults or "offends" the gulag of Islam, and we have the above mentioned 25 million or so screaming, frothing dervishes on our lilly white infidel throats.
And again if it is true, then isn't it merely a matter of time, no matter how many absurd hoops we jump or crawl through trying to placate or appease them, before the proverbial shoe falls anyway?
Admittedly I'm no expert on this culture - but I do have the distinct impression that coming up with new ways on a daily basis to show Islammists just how afraid we are of them is not going to balance out in the interests of Civilization, Human dignity, or Liberty in the end.
Fortunately CongressCritters are not in the chain of command. That stops at President Bush. If Congress wants to forbid buying Israeli ammo, then can do that, but that's about all. Oh they could forbid the DoD from spending any money to ship Israeli built ammo to the Mideast I suppose. But until the whole Congress does something like that, Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, the top Democrat(i.e. the minority leader on the subcommitte) on a House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee with jurisdiction over land forces can go piss up a rope.
Head stamps on the ammo generally show where it was manufactured, by a simple code.
It was 9mm not .45 ACP. We don't use much .45 ACP these days. Just few Special Forces types. Most everyone else has the 9mm wimpy. And those having to depend on it in battle aren't overly enthusiasic about that European round fired from an Italian designed pistol.
IIRC, at the same time the Muslim troops were being told that the bullets were lubed with lard, the Hindu troops were being told they were lubed with beef tallow. These were the troops fighting on the side of the Brits. The rumors would have come from the guys on the other side of course. Of course about that same time, we were using bear grease as bullet lube. Worked well I'm told. :)
Hope this makes the "Just DAMN" list!!!
Right now those 25 million are neutral toward us. Why pour gas on a fire?
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