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Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories: The Mechanics of Terminal Ballistics
Ulfhere at Mindspring ^ | 1999-2004 | Ulfhere

Posted on 06/16/2004 12:35:51 PM PDT by 45Auto

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"Bigger holes are (almost) always better."
1 posted on 06/16/2004 12:35:51 PM PDT by 45Auto
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To: 45Auto
"Bigger holes are (almost) always better."

Depends on whether you are on the giving or receiving end.

It is more blessed to give . . .

2 posted on 06/16/2004 12:38:46 PM PDT by P8riot
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To: 45Auto

Until proved differently I will stick with the 0.45 caliber for handguns and 000 buck for shotguns.

That's my homeland defense plan


3 posted on 06/16/2004 12:39:23 PM PDT by Mikey_1962
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To: 45Auto

Seems rather self-evident, but most experts make their nickel convincing us the self evident is not really true.


4 posted on 06/16/2004 12:40:21 PM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: P8riot

During the Napoleanic Wars, when both sides slugged it out at about 30 paces, a British unit was reloading between volleys, while their French opponents had already brought their weapons to bear. Right before the officer in charge of the French gave the order to fire, a lone voice piped up from the rear of the British formation: "Lord, for what we are about to receive, may we be truly thankful."


5 posted on 06/16/2004 12:41:41 PM PDT by Junior (Love isn't always on time. Sometimes you have to pay for it up front.)
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To: Mikey_1962
Sounds like a good plan. Just add .308 for your main-line rifles, and you're there.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

6 posted on 06/16/2004 12:42:02 PM PDT by wku man (Breathe...Relax...Aim...Squeeze...Smile!)
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To: wku man

Our house was one of the few houses in my neighborhood NOT looted during the riots in Detroit.

Gee, I wonder why...


7 posted on 06/16/2004 12:44:51 PM PDT by Mikey_1962
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To: 45Auto

This fellow didn't menition one word about the resistance to the bullet offered by the body. Or on the penetrability of the bullet being enhanced or hindered by its shape.


8 posted on 06/16/2004 12:46:06 PM PDT by sauropod (Which would you prefer? "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" or "I did not have sex with that woman?)
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To: hopespringseternal
Lot of interesting stuff in this article:

Table of Contents

I. Introduction

II. The Mechanics of Terminal Ballistics a. Mechanics of Lethal Wounding b. Mechanics of Terminal Ballistics c. Mechanics of Penetration d. Mechanics of Cavitation

III. Myths, Misconceptions and Miscalculations a. "Energy Dump", "Overpenetration" and "Hydrostatic Shock" b. Momentum and "Stopping Power" c. Thresholds of Wounding Potential Based on Kinetic Energy d. Optimal Game Weight (OGW) Formula e. Taylor Knockout (TKO) Formula f. Lethality Index Formula g. Knock-Out Value (KOV) Formula h. "When Good Physics Goes Bad" 1. Relationships of Force, Momentum and Energy 2. Bogus Ballistics

IV. Empirical Methods of Estimating Actual Terminal Performance

a. Performance of Non-Deforming Bullets

1. Hard Cast Handgun Bullets 2. Solid Rifle Bullets b. How Deforming Bullets Actually Perform 1. The Handloader-Sciuchetti Study 2. Medium-Bore Bullets 3. A Study of Sectional Density 4. Small-Bore Bullets 5. Too Light for Big Game? 6. Large-Bore Bullets c. A Model for Terminal Performance

V. The Politics of Terminal Ballistics

9 posted on 06/16/2004 12:49:09 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Mikey_1962

Actually, the 9mm with the right load does just as much damage as the .45 ACP. And for a home defense load in your 12 gauge #1 or #4 buckshot it better than 00 buck.

Here are a couple of good sources:

9mm Vs 45 and others.

http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/9/9mm-advoc.htm

12 Gauge rounds

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm


10 posted on 06/16/2004 12:51:26 PM PDT by JRPerry (It's Time To Fight Back)
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To: sauropod
From the article:

"In a word, stopping power is a myth."

"One of the most significant and utterly uncontrollable variables in terminal performance is the target itself; not merely the shot path or point of impact (these can be controlled), but the intrinsic constitution of the animal. I have seen deer with their heart blown quite literally away that ran 100 or even 200 yds on nothing more than the oxygen present in the blood at the instant of impact. Others spring lightly away as if unhurt when hit in an identical manner by a load which has dropped similarly sized game as if struck by a thunderbolt."

" Some will continue to graze calmly as though unaffected by the passage of the bullet through their vitals or the sound of the rifle's report (clearly in a state of shock). Some appear to be flipped or thrown by the impact while others never twitch a muscle. Some flinch or drop their hind quarters in a spasmodic contraction of agony, but nevertheless run or walk away."

" The point is this: there is never any certainty of the effect on a game animal even when all of the controllable variables are held constant. Shoot any ten deer, elk, sheep, antelope of identical size and age on a classic broadside shot through the shoulder and lungs; half of them will crumple on the spot but the remainder will exhibit most or all of the various behaviors described above. A research project by the South Carolina Dept. of Natural Resources into the effects on deer shot with high powered rifles demonstrates these assertions."

11 posted on 06/16/2004 12:52:18 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: JRPerry

I guess the main theme of this article is that IF the 9mm bullet deforms to a .50" hole, and it penetrates effectively, then it will be as good as the .45.


12 posted on 06/16/2004 12:54:00 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
All I know is that a heavy bullet can drop game quickly. Case in point. My father had a .35 Remington. It was a rifle designed by Browning and Remington made the gun. It was a gas operated semi-automatic that had a fixed 5 round magazine.

If I am correct, the .35 slug was in a 30-30 casing. The slug was 200 grains. It wasn't much good beyond 150 yards, but it would plow through brush and immediately drop the animal that it hit. And, they didn't move or kick. The effect was immediate.

As a side-bar, I remember reading that the Texas Rangers used them as a saddle gun in particularly brushy country.

13 posted on 06/16/2004 12:54:29 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: Mikey_1962
"Until proved differently I will stick with the 0.45 caliber for handguns and 000 buck for shotguns."

Actually, according to one of the world's most expert big game authorities, for man-sized and somewhat larger game (he chose leopards as his example), No. 1 buckshot was better (this from an article read in an NRA magazine some years ago--and no, I don't have reference and link---just memory).

14 posted on 06/16/2004 12:55:22 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: 45Auto

I have only one comment on the subject:

The shock wave caused by the dissipation of the bullet's energy must itself destroy a lot of tissue.


15 posted on 06/16/2004 12:55:27 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Islam: Nothing BEER couldn't cure.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Sounds Good. I'll add the extension and alternate rounds.


16 posted on 06/16/2004 1:00:34 PM PDT by Mikey_1962
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To: 45Auto
Any comments as to the nature of these terminal ballistics?

http://www.ogrish.com/view_attachment.php?id=21660

The audio's in Spanish. According to a translation provided by another Freeper, it says: translation by another Freeper translated and in Spanish, and says:

"live [film of] killings has become a daily occurrence here, and this one, which happened in the neighborhood of [?], occupied by supporters of the radical cleric.."

It breaks off here, so the video appears to be one of al Sadr's boys learning that al Sadrs "Mojo" couldn't protect him.

17 posted on 06/16/2004 1:02:09 PM PDT by fso301
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To: Junior

Old Mose also said that in the John Wayne classic "The Searchers".


18 posted on 06/16/2004 1:04:16 PM PDT by MCRD
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To: 45Auto
There are some extremely rarely encountered exceptions to the general rule, but for most purposes the hole caused by a bullet is its only measure of terminal effectiveness.

I disagree!!!

Location of the hole is likely MORE important than the size. A small hole between the eyes is like more effective that a large hole in the sheetrock next to the perp!

19 posted on 06/16/2004 1:04:36 PM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: 45Auto

Personally, I prefer the 458 Winchester, a dangerous game caliber that will kill anything from elephants on down.


20 posted on 06/16/2004 1:05:29 PM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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