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MPs like new heavily armored vehicle made in New Orleans
Mobile Register ^ | June 16, 2004 | MIKE MARSHALL

Posted on 06/16/2004 9:49:02 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- For American military police patrolling the streets of Baghdad, the scariest thing about this war is that they seldom control their contact with the enemy.

That contact normally involves the detonation of a roadside bomb, car bomb, or rocket-propelled grenade that comes out of nowhere, fired by insurgents who quickly slip away.

It is a contact common to warfare since medieval times, brutal and instantaneous: metal smashing against metal.

And that's why MPs rolling out of the gates of Camp Graceland, on the south side of Baghdad, feel safest in a heavily armored experimental vehicle that is manufactured right down the road from Mobile, by Textron Marine and Land Systems of New Orleans.

The ASV, or Armored Security Vehicle, can go just about anywhere a Humvee can go but offers more armor and more firepower than any other vehicle in the MPs' motor pool.

Designed especially for military police applications, it has been used by companies attached to the 231st MP Battalion out of Prattville, Ala., for nearly three months now.

"It's just what the doctor ordered," said Master Sgt. Jim Hood, who oversees a team of mechanics for the 231st.

Hood, who lives in Spanish Fort with his wife, Deborah, works full-time with the Guard and volunteered to come to Iraq with the 231st.

"Our 24 ASVs have survived RPGs (rocket-propelled grenades) and IEDs (improvised explosive devices) with hardly a dent," he said. "And they're really reliable for a model this new. The one downside can be waiting for parts from the States."

Most of the Humvees used by the MPs are now "up-armors," which carry about 2 tons of steel plating and weigh a total of 10,000 pounds. The windshield and side windows are made from a ballistic plastic.

At 18 feet long and 9 feet wide, the ASV is bulkier than the Humvee and weighs in at 26,800 pounds. Its minuscule windshields and side portals make visibility difficult, but they reputedly can withstand the impact of a .50-caliber bullet.

According to Edward "E.J." McIntyre, a 45-year-old Textron technician from Carreire, Miss., most of the ASV's weight is in its armor.

"The outside of the ASV has ceramic plates sandwiched between Kevlar," said McIntyre. "That absorbs most of any impact. The plates are also angled to deflect the blast."

If a munition penetrates the exterior plates, there is a thick layer of ballistic steel beneath it.

McIntyre said work on the prototype model started in 1997, and Textron began full production in 2000. Of the 69 already produced, 63 are now in Iraq, with Textron currently building 39 more.

This past spring, Textron modified its contract with the Army for an additional 28. The contract is worth more than $14 million.

The engine is a six-cylinder turbocharged diesel that, at least on the books, pushes the ASV at a maximum speed of 63 mph.

But MPs who took an ASV out on patrol Monday said they have had it up to speeds of 70 mph on Baghdad highways.

"Acceleration is much slower than the Humvees, but once we get going we can stay up with them," said Sgt. Joshua Bortell of Girard, Ill. "If you ask me, that's a good trade-off for the extra armor."

The ASV is also less maneuverable than Humvees. The crew on Monday knocked down a portion of masonry wall as they attempted to park in a tight spot at an Iraqi police station.

The turret gunner sits inside the ASV and is fully protected by its armor, so he isn't exposed as he would be standing up in the Humvee.

An electric motor rotates the turret and weaponry. But the gunner's vision in the ASV is limited to looking through a series of periscopes and a gun sight.

The standard ASV comes equipped with a Mark 19 grenade launcher and a .50-caliber machine gun, compared to the light machine gun found on most Humvees.

Lt. Col. Chuck Gailes, commander of the 231st MP Battalion, said the ASVs proved to be too bulky their first time in the field.

"When we tried them in Bosnia and Kosovo, our experience was not very good because of the narrow city streets and much tighter corners," said Gailes, who is the chief of campus police at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. "But Baghdad is a lot more open, and the ASV works perfectly when combined on patrol with the Humvees."

The typical patrol for the 231st consists of two Humvees and an ASV.

"We use the ASV in situations that call for the extra armor or extra firepower, but we still need the greater maneuverability of the Humvees," Gailes said.

The ASV costs about $600,000 while an up-armor Humvee costs $150,000. Both normally operate with a crew of three, the driver, turret gunner and team leader, who occupies a passenger seat next to the driver.

The Humvee can carry an additional two passengers; the much more cramped ASV, just one more.

And even the ASV is not impregnable. In the first week of June, two soldiers from New Jersey's 89th MP Brigade were killed while in an ASV home-based at Camp Mule Skinner, on the southeast side of Baghdad. The vehicle reportedly struck an especially powerful roadside bomb, which insurgents may have followed up with a large RPG round.

"Whatever caused that damage had to be huge," said McIntyre, who spends most of his time at Camp Graceland, living and working with ASV mechanics. "It's the first time anything has penetrated that armor."


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; US: Alabama; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: alarng; asv; mp; wheeledarmor
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To: Cannoneer No. 4

They're really the answer to the patrol problem. Don't know about convoying at 50 mph or better, but in town they're really a good idea.

However, even the USMC big, giant honker of an APC is not impervious to RPG attacks. I've seen the wreckage first hand. Ugly. Really ugly.


21 posted on 06/16/2004 11:43:29 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Coming to you live from HESCO city...)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
One thing I don't "get" (probably because I'm a "treadhead") is what happens when those big old TIRES take heavy fire? I mean I'm sure there is a run-flat system, but what if the tire gets really shredded or more than one tire gets hit badly. Can the vehicle still move? How tough is it to change one of those tires and how many spares are carried? Just wondering.
22 posted on 06/16/2004 11:44:18 AM PDT by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: Southack
In Nam we had a V-100 survive for b-40 hits.

Got the paint out the next morning and touched it up.

The key is the slant armor and protecting the wheel housings.

23 posted on 06/16/2004 12:31:18 PM PDT by dts32041 (What is the exit strategy for Europe and Japan ? - I don't think there was one, we are still there..)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4; Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; ...
Kind of like the new Batmobile?

Just damn.

If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

24 posted on 06/16/2004 12:33:05 PM PDT by mhking
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To: dts32041
How does the old b-40 compare to "modern" RPG-7's?
25 posted on 06/16/2004 12:44:09 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: gatorbait; in the Arena

26 posted on 06/16/2004 1:03:04 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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Iraqis Assist Soldiers with disabled vehicle near Fallujah
27 posted on 06/16/2004 1:06:39 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4

would you add me to the armored vehicle ping list. I just love this stuff.


28 posted on 06/16/2004 1:10:08 PM PDT by Fierce Allegiance ( "Stay safe in the "sandbox", cuz! SEE MY SOLDIER COUSIN IN TIME MAGAZINE, JUNE 14 ISSUE, PAGE 15)
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To: Southack
Shorter range no as heavy war head but design from what I have seen looks pretty much the same.

In fact looks like they use the same launcher.

29 posted on 06/16/2004 1:14:31 PM PDT by dts32041 (What is the exit strategy for Europe and Japan ? - I don't think there was one, we are still there..)
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To: PoorMuttly

Think Arnold will want one?


30 posted on 06/16/2004 1:16:30 PM PDT by MPJackal (Waiting for the big one and some nice beach front property in Nevada.)
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To: mhking

More like the Fatmobile.

31 posted on 06/16/2004 1:16:31 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
"Acceleration is much slower than the Humvees, but once we get going we can stay up with them," said Sgt. Joshua Bortell of Girard, Ill. "If you ask me, that's a good trade-off for the extra armor."

A good trade-off indeed! Better to arrive a little late but alive and well. This won't end all the attacks but it forces the insurgents to show their cowardly faces instead of just lighting off roadside bombs.

32 posted on 06/16/2004 1:21:35 PM PDT by Patriot_from_CA (Suddenly the raven on Scalia's shoulder stirred and spoke. Quoth the raven..."NeverGore")
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To: Fierce Allegiance
I don't have an "armored vehicle ping list" to put you on. What I do have is

Stryker Brigade Combat Team Tactical Studies Group (Chairborne)

af_vet_rr; ALOHA RONNIE; American in Israel; American Soldier; archy; armymarinemom; BCR #226; Bethbg79; blackbag; BlueOneGolf; Cacophonous; Calpernia; cavtrooper21; centurion316; colorado tanker; Conservative84; consort; Crowcreek; CWOJackson; Darksheare; Dark Wing; dead; demlosers; Don L; .cnI redruM; dragon6; dts32041; exnavy; ffusco; 1stFreedom; Fred Mertz; Freedom4US; FreedomPoster; Flyer; Ford Fairlane; Future Snake Eater; gatorbait; Graybeard58; hchutch; historian1944; Humidston; in the Arena; lshoultz; Jimmy Valentine; joesnuffy; Jonah Hex; John Jorsett; jriemer; kattracks; Kenny Bunk; Khurkris; KiaKaha; Lazamataz; LibKill; Lil'freeper; Little Ray; Lion Den Dan; MadJack; mark502inf; Matthew James; mcshot; Michael121; MizSterious; Mochamadness; MoJo2001; neverdem; New Zealander; norton; Nurse Ratched; NWU Army ROTC; Old Sarge; Orwellian; Paul Ross; petertare; Poohbah; PsyOp; Proud Legions; Qatar-6; Radix; Ragtime Cowgirl; RedlegCPT; rightwing2; Rockpile; R. Scott; SauronOfMordor; sauropod; sd-joe; servantoftheservant; SJSAMPLE; Skybird; SLB; Sparta; Spyder; Squantos; Stand Watch Listen; Tailback; Tallguy; 30-06 Springfield; ThePythonicCow; The Sailor; Thunder 6; TigerLikesRooster; Travis McGee; Tunehead54; txzman; Valin; vannrox; VeniVidiVici; Walkingfeather; wardaddy; watchin; wretchard; xzins; Yasotay; yhwhsman;

and the

Free Republic Treadhead Ping

archy; Gringo1; Matthew James; Fred Mertz; Squantos; colorado tanker; The Shrew; SLB; Darksheare; BCR #226; IDontLikeToPayTaxes; Imacatfish; Tailback; DCBryan1; Eaker; Archangelsk; gatorbait; river rat; alfa6; Lee'sGhost; Dionysius; BlueLancer; Frohickey; GregB; leadpenny; skepsel; Proud Legions; ExSoldier; King Prout; Professional Engineer; alfa6; bluelancer; Cannoneer No.4; An Old Man; hookman; DMZFrank; in the Arena; Bethbg79; neverdem; NWU Army ROTC; ma bell; MoJo2001; The Sailor;

Which one?

Or both?

33 posted on 06/16/2004 1:25:12 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: Fierce Allegiance

M1117 Armored Security Vehicle

34 posted on 06/16/2004 1:35:21 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4

You won't see this on the street, but man, definitely the king of the road


35 posted on 06/16/2004 1:41:36 PM PDT by The Wizard (Democrats: enemies of America)
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Guardian: New vehicle gives MPs confidence
36 posted on 06/16/2004 1:45:36 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4

we need a light armored turet for the hummers


37 posted on 06/16/2004 1:48:09 PM PDT by The Wizard (Democrats: enemies of America)
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To: ExSoldier

Tires at Post 34


38 posted on 06/16/2004 1:52:51 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: The Wizard
Sort of like this?


39 posted on 06/16/2004 1:56:11 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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To: The Wizard; Travis McGee

You might see them on the street in the spring of 2009.


40 posted on 06/16/2004 1:59:04 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out)
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