Bosnian Serbs ADMIT for First Time Security Forces Massacred THOUSANDS of Muslims During War

AP ^ | june11, 2004

[nuconvert]

Bosnian Serbs Admit for First Time Security Forces Massacred Thousands of Muslims During War

Samir Krilic/Associated Press

Jun 11, 2004

SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) - Bosnian Serb officials have acknowledged for the first time that their security forces carried out the massacre of up to 8,000 Muslims at Srebrenica, according to an investigative report Friday. An official commission examining Europe's worst massacre since World War II "established participation of (Bosnian Serb) military and police units, including special (police) units" in the deaths, international administration spokesman Vedran Persic told The Associated Press, quoting from the commission's report.

During the height of the 3 1/2-year Bosnian war, Serb troops overran a U.N.-declared safe zone in Srebrenica and slaughtered up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys.

The Bosnian Serbs have long been blamed for the 1995 killings, which the U.N. war crimes tribunal has declared an act of genocide. But until now, no Serb official has clearly acknowledged that Bosnian Serbs were the perpetrators.

"In July 1995, several thousand Muslims were liquidated in a way that represents grave violations of international humanitarian law," said Persic, quoting from the report. Persic is a spokesman for Paddy Ashdown, Bosnia's international administrator.

U.N. and Muslim experts have found the remains of about 5,000 of the victims from mass graves across eastern Bosnia and find new remains every month. The fate of the others is still unknown. Nearly 1,200 Srebrenica victims have been identified through DNA analysis.

Dutch peacekeepers charged with protecting the Srebrenica enclave failed to prevent the massacre. The Dutch government acknowledged the failure and resigned in April 2002.

Radovan Karadzic, the Bosnian Serb wartime leader, has been indicted by the war crimes tribunal for genocide in connection with the Srebrenica massacre, along with his wartime top general, Ratko Mladic. Both remain at large.

The 1992-1995 war claimed about 250,000 lives and left around 20,000 missing and presumed dead. The remains of around 18,000 victims from different ethnic groups have been exhumed from more than 300 mass graves across the country.

The Srebrenica Commission was formed last year by Ashdown to investigate who was involved in the massacre and where victims' bodies were buried. It's composed of Bosnian Serb judges and lawyers, a victims' representative and international expert.

The report said that the perpetrators of the massacre "undertook measures to cover up the crime by moving the bodies" to other locations, said Persic.

The Bosnian Serbs had long refused to acknowledge that their forces committed the worst civilian massacre on European soil since World War II. The work of the Srebrenica Commission, too, initially was obstructed by some of its members and authorities who refused to provide information.

Only after Ashdown fired several Bosnian Serb officials and threatened others with dismissal was information made available.

Under the 1995 peace accord that ended the war, Ashdown has the power to impose laws and to fire officials who fail to comply with the peace process. The same agreement also divided postwar Bosnia into two mini-states, a Serb republic and a Muslim-Croat federation.

Persic said Ashdown welcomed the report, saying that "a dynamic of obstructionism on war crimes issues is being replaced by a dynamic of greater cooperation" on the part of Bosnia's Serbs.

[ma bell]

Isn't that what those satelites are intended for, to track and record and such? How could they miss it? Easily, they did not occur on the scale they claim.

Any and all atrocities were committed on a personal level scale. Unit commands never issued those orders, only at Platoon level when things were personal. Units were rarely fighting in the areas they were from and they were sent off to opposite sides of the country. Precisely to avoid the emotional intensity of knowing their family was butchered by the muslims or the croatians. This would prevent the Serbs from carryng out retaliation, but carry on as Professional Military Units they were and are.

[SauronOfMordor]

During the height of the 3 1/2-year Bosnian war, Serb troops overran a U.N.-declared safe zone in Srebrenica and slaughtered up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys.

Somehow I get the feeling that the real truth is they killed military-age male combatants. No mention of women or babies.

[mark502inf]

I.K. Kenny, well the Albanians say that as descendants of the Illyrians, they were there first and were pushed out by the Slav migrations. The Slavs say the land was mostly empty when they arrived and, besides, the Albanians didn't really come from Illyrians. The point is debatable, but going that far back should not count.

The Serbian medieval kingdom weakened in the 14th Century and finally fell to the Ottomans for good in 1459(?). Few Albanians lived in Kosovo at that time. In 1690, after a failed Austrian invasion which the Serbian population backed, the Serbs--fearing Ottoman reprisals--fled north in what is called the "Great Migration." Albanians from the surrounding area then migrated into the lands they left behind. Most historians date Albanian predominance in Kosovo from the mid-18th Century, although Serbs debate this.

Serb nationalists even say that Albanians did not become the majority in Kosovo until after WWII, in spite of census date from 1921 and 1939(?) showing ethnic Albanians at over 60%.

So, who was there first? Pick a date and pick a side.

[ma bell]

when was Serbia first a nation?

[I_killed_kenny]

Let's assume that Albanians aren't descendants of Illyrians. How would one explain contemporary Albanian names that go back to the Illyrian times?
Bardhyl, Teuta, Alban, Taulanti, Genti and so on. How about the legends that date back to the Illyrian times?

Why would Albanians adopt that and not carry their own traditions? Unless they back together hundreds of years before the Serbs arrived and engaged in a conspiracy to fool the world.

The timeline st shouldn't matter, but I can't take over your land and call it mine.

[wonders]

Pick a date and pick a side.

Well, the borders in place at the close of WWII have been more-or-less considered sacrosanct by The Powers That Be. Start re-drawing borders and where does it end? If Albania gets Kosovo, then will the KLA go after a hunk of Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro? Nobody much cares other than Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro and they don't count.

But if Kosovo goes to Albania, the precedent would make Turkey nervous and Turkey counts (think Kurds). Turkey might be especially nervous because of the Iraq situation.

Anyway, it will remain a statelmate until after the election in the US, with NATO and UN babysitting.

PS: An independent state of Kosovo isn't viable. It will have to attach to Albania in one way or another if it gains independence

[wonders]

Anyone who wants to learn more about Srebrenica should read this book: "Dubious Mandate" by Phillip Corwin

[Wraith]

One would have to wonder if these Illyrians like a lot of the Muslim tribes were nomadic and moved around. It that were the case how can one decide on what area was a homeland? Serbs were not nomadic and if anyone had the right to call an area a homeland its the Serbs. Kosovo will remain part of Serbia and will remain an area of contention. The big question here is if no side can not tolerate the other what is the solution? Personally if both can cohabit ate and breath the same air which is a wet dream then can kosovo be anexed by terrorists? I think the only solution is to let the Serbs return under a more tolerant regime? The oppressed majority of Albanians would get used to it rather than answer to a bunch of former inmate KLA. Rugova is Kosovo's only chance of setting things strait. If the KLA continue to coordinate and execute the systematic genocide of the remaining Serbs in Kosovo the deserve what the get......

[I_killed_kenny]

"these Illyrians like a lot of the Muslim tribes " Illyrians were like Illyrians, not like Muslims but nice try. They were there for at least 700 years before Allah was dreamed. Check out this search on the origins of the Roman emperor who legalized Christianity. Also, do a search on where Peter preached after Jesus was killed. People were converted after 500 years of Ottoman occupation. You might also want to search how Albanians were summarily fired by Slobodan Milosevic and how they couldn't learn their language, in their land. It may explain a few things.

[getoffmylawn]

Kosovo isn't their land. Never was. Never will be. They had best treat it nice because I can assure you that the Serbs will be back and they're keeping a close record of what's happening in their Holy Land. It's one of the things that they're best at.

If the Albanians that currently occupy Kosovo choose to be short sighted and rude guests, they are only hurting their descendants. You don't really believe that the Serbs won't some day have control of Kosovo again, do you?

[I_killed_kenny]

You mean the "Holy Land" they moved to from what is now Russia or whatever?

I'm coming in a taking over your lawn. I will declare it my "Holy Land" and you better behave. Nothing else matter, I just said it's mine and so it becomes. Sounds fair, right?

[wonders]

mark502inf: The point is debatable, but going that far back should not count.

I'm with mark on this one. It is disputed by the best of scholars and going back that far shouldn't count anyway. Let's face it: everybody on this earth's ancestors came from somewhere else (with the exception of the folks around the Rift Valley of course).

The question should be: what is fair and just for the people living NOW?

[Wraith]

"They were there for over 700 years before Allah was dreamed" Well my dear boy exactly where is where? So you are saying these Illyrians were not nomadic but were for ever and a day in Kosovo? You must remember that even before Islam and Mohammed's hangover that caused his visions of Islam, the Arabs and related peoples like the Illyrians were very much nomadic. Go anywhere in Kosovo and identify the ruins of great Illyrian city that firms up your point. I was in Kosovo and its not a very big place. There I saw a lot of ancient Serb buildings. The point is some llyrian/Albanian pissed on some bush while guiding his migrating flock of goats one day a long time ago and decided the place belonged to them while moving on to the next mountain range in what is now Macedonia to piss some more bushes and make the same declaration. Saw some photos of some of your Illyrian friends pissing on a very ancient destroyed Serbian Church just recently which tells me nothing has changed in the last 700 years. You may want to get more educated on the Albanian way of life which includes learning about bullshitting and lying at a very early age. They used this ability very effectively during the war and most of all do not preach to me about Albanians especially the KLA whom I got to know first hand back in 1999.

Question for you has there ever been an ancient Illyrian city excavated anywhere in that region? I have never heard of one but if you have please piss away.....

[Wraith]

Oh my stars we have a new arrival as of May 2004. Well the old saying goes if you are going to hang with the big dogs you better not piss like a puppy.....

And imagine the blasphemous comment about Mr. Getoffmylawn's lawn. Maybe Mr. Getoffmylawn's lawn is somewhat of a Mecca to him in a very Christian way, a place to watch a ball game on a sunny afternoon, have a few beers and pepper the backsides of any unwanted goofs coming up the driveway. Should not mess with anyone's happy place.....

[MarMema]

I love your posts with those pics. I now have that site bookmarked.

[MarMema]

The Serbs have fought a good fight - may they continue to be blessed by God and keep the islamic crazies away.

[I_killed_kenny]

No one is claiming that one group was nomadic or not. I was just wondering why he said "like the muslims" ...that's why the 700 years point. People I assume were as nomadic as they had to in order to survive.

You don't have to take my word or anecdotal evidence for it for it, just search google for Dardani. They were an Illyrian tribe which happened to be right on that area and you will even find maps. As far as migrating, you gotta be kidding me. The Serbs' migration to that area is documented, everyone admits it so why would you even bring it up?

Kids taught to lie at an early age? Wow, now that some breaking news. You have found the only people on earth (I'm sure you have it all documented and took care of any potential bias) who teach their kids to lie. Let me guess: The Serbs teach their kids to be honest. Right?

And no one got to know the Sebs first hand. It's everyone else's fault. The Bosnians, the Croats, The Albanians. Everyone is picking on the peace loving, innocent Serbs.

[getoffmylawn]

I've been to Kosovo several times. The place was chock full of ancient Serbian churches and monastaries. There were a few old street signs from the Roman Empire times, but no ancient Albanian anything.

Now that the Albanians are all over Kosovo, they're changing the Serbian names of towns and landmarks by changing one letter of a Serbian word and then saying that it's Albanian? Why don't they just revert to the "original" Albanian names for the locations? I'll tell you why not. It's because the places were never Albanian. They've just recently moved in. They have no real historic ties to Kosovo and they just want the land and they want no other ethnic group to live anywhere near them. The Kosovo Albanians kind of remind me of the Amish on crack.

The Serbs have a real and documented history in Kosovo. The fact that they consider Kosovo to be their Holy Land is not a point of contention. It's in the hearts and souls of every Serbian and it will continue to be. If the Albanians that now live in Kosovo can't or won't realize that, they do it at their own perile. The Serbs will be back.

[getoffmylawn]

The question should be: what is fair and just for the people living NOW?

That's a great question. At one time I believed in partition and the creation of embassy like status for the Serbian Holy sites. I had no problem with the Albanian areas becoming independent.

After the latest pograms against the Serbs by the Albanians in Kosovo, I've changed my mind but I haven't come up with a solution yet.

[getoffmylawn]

...a place to watch a ball game on a sunny afternoon, have a few beers and pepper the backsides of any unwanted goofs coming up the driveway. Should not mess with anyone's happy place.....

If that's a shot at the idiot Cubs fans that invade US Comiskular Park every Tuesday nite, I'm completely with ya, brother :-D