In `learn or die' fight, gallant unit saves GIs (Amazing account of American Bravery)

Chicago Tribune ^ | Fri, May 28, 2004 | By Bill Glauber Tribune staff reporter

[Eurotwit]

Moore leapt from his tank and sprinted down the alley to the men.

"They had expended all their ammo," Moore said. "These guys fought like tigers. The platoon leader was wounded in the head and left leg, and he was still commanding. When I got down there they had guys who were crying. I don't know if they were tears of joy. They fought like wonderful men."

Moore and his men had to fight to get the unit out.

The dead patrol soldier was laid gently on a tank turret along with the wounded.

"While everyone else was fighting, time stopped," Dean said, still amazed by the image of American soldiers caring for a fallen comrade.

[Shryke]

The basic question is: can you improve urban performance by making a tank that is small and fast enough, but still well-armed and armored?

Although I am a huge fan of tanks, I don't think this can be done, without reducing the crew. As far as I remember, we like having more men in a tank - it adds redundancy and reduces stress on each crew member.

[taxed2death]

....perhaps a day will come when tanks are made of carbon/ Kevelar composites with reactive armour surounding them.....who knows, stranger things have been developed by the Military / industrial complex!

[RAY]

From the article: "Roman satirist Horace in Latin, "Dolce et decorum est pro patria mori." Meansing: "It's noble and fitting to die for one's country"

Yes! But it is much better to make the enemy die for his county.

[r9etb]

Although I am a huge fan of tanks, I don't think this can be done, without reducing the crew. As far as I remember, we like having more men in a tank - it adds redundancy and reduces stress on each crew member.

You've probably put your finger on the basic engineering/human factors design problem. I suppose part of the problem is defining the mission, and putting the right number of guys into the vehicle. (This story makes it sound like you'd need no fewer than 3.)

If I read these guys' comments correctly, the primary requirements are firepower and armor, with speed being a second-tier requirement.

It also sounds like there's a serious need for close-in, anti-personnel armament ("we were fighting out of the hatches with rifles and pistols...") They also need some heavier stuff (probably not an M-1 sized gun, though) -- I don't know what sorts of "short, big guns" might work. Sounds to me like really big firepower needs could be met by a combined-arms tactical solution, rather than trying to put it all in one vehicle.

[Shryke]

There may be some space to be saved in fuel, engine, and systems requirements for an "urban" tank. We certainly don't need a 60mph-over-rough-terrain vehicle. Nor do we need many of the higly-advanced fighting systems (such as the gun-steadying mechanisms). Basically, we need a heavily armored, short-cannoned (fletchette rounds?) fighting vehicle, with moderate speed needs and moderate range. That may shave some space off, a decent amount, but we still would need.....I'd hazard 3 guys, as the "main" gun loader would not be a priority task (if it was, just use a MBT to level the damn town). Feel free to change or add.

[r9etb]

As this story also makes clear, you do need something capable of operating through/over rubble, barricades, and other vehicles. (A pointy nose, and/or some sort of snowplow-like blade would do the trick.) That suggests the need for a powerful engine.

I think you probably also need a very short turning radius, which probably means a tracked, as opposed to wheeled vehicle.

Also, you probably need to mount several guns (probably remote-controlled) to provide simultaneous firing in more than one direction.

And, of course, you need to have something that provides really good visibility.

[Shryke]

This guy, with jumping abilities. I'll take one, just to get to work.

[jpsb]

BUmp!

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Amazing American Bravery, bump!

Thank you, Eurotwit. Amazing Soldiers, amazing reporter who sees, and writes their amazing story with respect. (blurry screen alert!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The men of C Company, 2nd Battalion, 37th Armored Regiment of the 2nd Armored Cavalry ("Crusaders")  got their introduction to urban combat - sprawling Sadr City slum. Black-clad fighters came within spitting distance of the American tanks and soldiers - a 4-mile journey through grenades, bullets and burning barricades.

.... to rescue a 20-man patrol - U.S. soldiers pinned down in an alley. One man was dead, four others wounded - survivors - fighting for their lives amid a Shiite uprising triggered by a fiery Muslim cleric.

..In all the unit killed at least 70 fighters and wounded perhaps 200 more...

Moore's report on the mission reveals extraordinary acts of courage. All 24 soldiers were recommended for citations, including five for Silver Stars for gallantry.

---

They honored their brother....the first to fall.

 

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/2803768.html

 

Army Sgt. Michael W. Mitchell

Army Sgt. Michael W. Mitchell, 25, of Porterville, Calif.; assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 37th Armor Regiment, 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division, Ray Barracks, Friedberg, Germany; killed April 4 when his unit was attacked with rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire in Baghdad.

• • • • •

Sgt. Michael W. Mitchell found love when the Army stationed him in Germany, and he planned to bring his German fiancee home after his stint as a tank mechanic ended. Instead, Bianca Liebl had to make plans to go to Porterville, Calif., on her own. Mitchell, 25, was one of eight soldiers killed in a firefight April 4 in Baghdad. In high school, Mitchell ran cross-country and wrestled. A coach, Rich Lambie, called Mitchell "a scrappy, tenacious competitor." Months after graduation, Mitchell enlisted in the Army. He was stationed in Germany, just as his father, Bill Mitchell, had been during the Vietnam War. An older sister, Christine Jayroe, remembered Mitchell as "my little playmate." "I used to drag him and play in the dirt," Jayroe said.

— Associated Press

Killed: April 04, 2004

[blackie]

American Bravery ~ Bump!

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

[Alamo-Girl]

Amazing story! Thank God for all of our heroes and their loved ones, especially those who suffer so great a personal loss to secure the future for all of us who remain.

[Centurion2000]

If you are looking at smth for urban combat .... two or three reloadable cannisters/tubes of 40mm flechette rounds; it should stand up to an RPG-7 at minimum, 50km/hr and a rotary 20mm main gun plus associated coax and driver's weapons would do quite well.

[Eurotwit]

You might enjoy reading this.

As an aside. Did you ever come over to Norway to train winter warfare?

[Shryke]

Agreed. Our original discussion concerned reducing the size of an M1 to make it more "urban effective". We were just discussing where and what could be made smaller, and what could not. Pure conjecture anyway. A tank engineer would probably point at me and laugh.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[colorado tanker]

Thanks for the ping. An extraordinary story of bravery in the use of armor in an urban environment. I wonder if any of the "transformers" have taken note of this?

[CWOJackson]

Thanks for the ping...our nation has always been blessed with men like these.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

CPT John C. Moore

Our company is a company of heroes.

[Cannoneer No. 4]