Posted on 05/25/2004 8:27:49 AM PDT by wmichgrad
And that's the point. These rules were made by Christians who thought everybody should abide by their little 2000 year-old rules and regulations.
Nope, 'twas not I. However, I did consider adding the Admin Moderator as an addressee. I decided against that, hoping to see a real bloodletting before the Zot came down from on high. Alas, the moderator was quicker than I expected.
That's not exactly 100% true. islam did reach a fork in the road, with reform and elightenment down one road, and darkness and dispair down the other. It was the time when Whabbism reared it's ugly head. Things haven't reached to point of no return for moslems; islam as a whole does keep treading down that dark path, though.
I've known for years. It is a call for Muslims to come to prayer, not a call for non-Muslims to convert.
There are others out there that are, shall we say, a bit more militant.
That exact call is the one prescribed by Mohammed for the call to prayer. Anything else is stuff people made up later.
As stated, the noise argument is easily made. It does not address the root of the problem. That root is that US citizens have the right to not to be preached to within the confines of their own homes, or on their property.
The noise argument is all that is necessary. When you're allowed to shoot Jehova's Witnesses on sight, then I'll agree there's an absolute right not to hear anything religious within your household. Now for property rights and zoning reasons, you should have the right to stop some recurring loud sound that pushes that message into your house.
Sure, many still exist, but most are harmless (I mean, no buying beer Sunday Morning? Oh my god! Gotta stock up Saturday night! LOL) and as time moves on, things work themselves out, ya know?
Why not work to change the laws you disagree with?
That is outside of the point I was trying to make for the discussion, which was that when Christians got into power here, they established Christian-based laws, just as Muslims do in their countries. Luckily, ours have relaxed quite a bit.
I like the way you think.
You are utterly clueless, and a bore.
You are trying to compare not buying beer with islamic laws like whipping you for not praying on time, now allowing women any rights, and beheading you if you're raped or leave the religion.
Insane!
I've heard about Islam's enlightenment and their "Golden age." Unfortunately, much of that enlightenment appears to have come at the expense of other's cultures.
I've read some interesting articles on the Chritian Assyrians, who inhabited the region long before Arab/Islam existed and came calling on their societies...as they plundered both the people and the knowledge.
Those who didn't convert were forced to pay exhorbinent taxes, leaving them as second class citizens. The others who did, formed the backbone of Islamic culture until they eventually died...and with them, so did Islam's enlightenment.
Peter DeBasso (sp) wrote a wonderful letter to one the heads of Hewlett Packard after some misreprentations were made on behalf of Islam. It can be found through a Google search of "What Arab Civilization." I've since corresponded with Peter to learn more about the Assyrians...and find him immensely knowledgable on the subject.
Sure, they've relaxed. However, based on our society we can actually change some of these "religiously-inspired" laws.
Ever seen a law relaxed in a society that is based on Sharia?
Thank you - I needed to be reminded of that piece of Muslim Trivia. Not that it is, to Them, of course...
All non-mulsims should not be subjected to listening to this garbage. Church bells are nice. Hearing some crazy-ass muslim scream from a loudspeaker 6 times a day is not.
That's just a point where we'll never agree. I don't discredit everyone of that religion by the actions of those we see on the news. Therefore, I see no threat from Muslims who are good American citizens and patriots, and I know many who fall into that category.
To an untrained eye, the first few strands of HIV retrovirus wouldn't appear as much of a threat either. But let it multiply unchecked in a receptive environment and you've got a serious problem.
islam is the macro version of HIV.
If they get away with this, every Polish Cathedral in Hamtramck ought to be allowed to broad-cast the Angelus... ( which I believe is only 3 times a day....)
I can buy alcohol on Sundays. Some states let you, some states don't. Some counties are totally dry. If its such a big deal to you, run for local office to change the local rules, or move to a different location where you can imbibe with greater frequency.
Good. Intolerance of hate, murder, savagery and an antipathy toward the Judeo-Christian values which created this country is something to be valued and encouraged.
Pity the fools who don't know this.
a) I am of the opinion that the moslem call to prayer is a form of preaching, and thus proselytizing (sp?), you are not. You equate the words to church bells; in which case you are wrong.
b) because you do not see the prosylization angle, you do not see this as a religious arguement, as well as a property rights argument. You miss the important fact that islam is as much an ideology as it is a religion. By islams own actions, anything that goes on concerning a moslem is a religious argument.
Only part of your last statement I have issue with is:
When you're allowed to shoot Jehova's Witnesses on sight, then I'll agree there's an absolute right not to hear anything religious within your household.
In some parts of the backwoods of Missouri it is legal to shoot them one sight:-)
Seriously, though, I do have the right to tell them to leave, no matter what their message. By not banning the calls to prayer in their current state, the city council has taken that right away from property owners. They are forced, by law, to listen to the message that the moslems send out.
So, we not only have a loud noise that neighbors have to contend with (property rights) but you have a local government establishing, through law, a single religion's right to come into a person's home, or property, and preach their message. If the moslems were simply chiming bells 5 times a day, the home owners wouldn't have such a compelling argument against the calls to prayer.
That's still not the point, which is that Christians have them too. Luckily, our society believes in freedom, so some of these laws are dying, but they are and were there.
But for Shari'a, yes. There are four different legal schools in Islam, from the strict Hanbali to the more liberal Hanafi. Interestingly, the Hanafi school is the oldest, while the strict Hanbali school is the youngest. The Hanbalis actually have an ancient history of coercing other Muslims to conform to their school of law, so it's no surprise that Wahabbism follows it and its coercive tradition.
To give you an example of where these are practiced, Turkey uses Hanafi, and it has a pretty Western legal system. Saudi Arabia uses Hanbali, and we know how draconian the laws there are.
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