Posted on 05/25/2004 8:27:49 AM PDT by wmichgrad
Tonight, petitions could stall Muslim prayer call
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/call25_20040525.htm
All kidding aside, in the 21st century there are plenty of affordable technological ways to do this (of course, they want to roll the clock backt to the mid 7th century)
Given this, it seems to me there is more going on here. It is more the 'I'm muslim and I'm here and you'd better get used to it" bravo zulu that I'm even seeing here in my own small county.
That's just a point where we'll never agree. I don't discredit everyone of that religion by the actions of those we see on the news. Therefore, I see no threat from Muslims who are good American citizens and patriots, and I know many who fall into that category.
I am off to drink the kool-aid now.
It must be rought to be so blind that you can't see where your religious laws, things that aren't illegal outside of Christianity, have become secular law enforced on non-believers.
Your argument is specious; you're sure giving it the old college try though.
Like what? Name an example of one such law, and how it negatively impacts you...
Hey, thanks for the tip! I'm generally a very nice person to people I meet, so sometimes have a problem shaking them -- especially since they're so damn sincere and polite!
I tried to get him to answer how preventing the wailing constituted the government establishment of religion. He wouldn't answer that one. Nor would he answer how it would be related to the constitutional right to free speech.
Get a clue...unless and or until Islam and muslims can police their culture...they are not wanted by this American.
"Just because some Muslims call other Muslims to prayer and you can hear it doesn't mean you are being indoctrinated into a religion."-Antirepublicrat
That is NOT what is happening...their "prayer" is being FORCED on the general population via a soundsystem so EVERYONE is forced to hear it..its not like you only hear it if you were walking past the mosque.
Also, the whole "Christians are getting a taste of their own medicine" tripe is nonsense. If you dont like the door to door bible beaters or the rightous busy-bodies getting in your face at the grocery store: TELL THEM SO or blow them off. I grew up in a fairly small town and even the most uptight, obnoxious Baptists were never a threat to my safety OR my personal liberty. Sorry - business shutting down on Sunday's is as much as TRADITIONAL issue as it is religious. Come to NYC - many small Jewish owned business are closed on Saturdays and guess what I dont take that as them enforcing their beliefs on me. And therein lies the difference between Christianity and Islam.
Spin all you want the ...but Islam is a cult, its destructive and it doesnt assimiliate, it dominates. There is NO reason the people of this town should be forced to hear it in a public way.
First of all, they weren't Christians. Christ's arrival was just a few centuries off yet.
Second of all, the historical narrative of the people of Israel has something which is sorely lacking in the Koran - context.
The verses you excerpted from Deuteronomy were never - and couldn't be - used as a blanket allowance for death and destruction of one's enemies. They were part of, as I said, an historical narrative which was defined by the perimeters of time and specific event. To further support this determination, one couldn't pull atrocities from the pages of history and convincingly demonstrate use of those verses as the excuse for violence.
Excerpts from the Koran, however, contain no such contextual constraints. As a result, they have and no doubt will continue to be used as reason for all sorts of violence against unbelievers. We see how that has transpired throughout history, as well as throughout the world today in a dozen countries easily named.
I won't be. If you read my posts, you'll see I'm also not tolerant of these Muslims doing their call to prayer.
you think the muslims are your friends you should do some research.
The Muslims that currently are my friends are definitely my friends, and as good Americans as your average sampling of the Christian population. But then I don't associate with the Qaeda-loving types either.
Hey idiot, if you want hear this ally ally islam crap, pack your ass up and move to Mecca.
HA....can't buy your alcohol on Sunday, huh? Plan a little better, buddy....and join the world of RULES...some you Do NOT like....TOO BAD! Move somewhere where everything is available on Sunday....you are free to do that...hey, come West (don't know where you are)....
We're talking about whether they exist, and they do. Obscenity laws, Sunday laws, liquor laws, they're all still theree, although the Sunday laws have lost their power somewhat over the years.
Since you can't seemed to be bothered to find out what they are, I will inform you. Here is a rather simple and benign one:
Allah is the Greatest (4 times)
I bear witness that there is no god except Allah (2 times)
I declare that Muhammad is Allah’s Messenger (2 times)
Come for salaah
Come to success
Allah is the Greatest (2 times)
There is no god except Allah.
There are others out there that are, shall we say, a bit more militant. Needless to say, the message presented is quite a bit different than church bells.
(re: walking away from preachers)Easier said than done.
This is confusing; unless you are speaking of some sort of cult, or are you speaking of people that are weak willed and unable to tell others what they don't like? If find it very easy to tell missionaries to get off my porch. I also find it very easy to walk away from a corner preacher.
Yes, when they frame their arguments as "I don't want that religion around me."
Spin, spin spin...the arguement is not "I don't want that religion around me", the arguement is "I do not want that religon IN MY HOUSE OR ON MY PROPERTY.". There are bigots in the equation that don't want islam to be there. It just so happens that their bigotted argument rides the coat-tails of a very valid property rights and religious freedoms issue. As stated, the noise argument is easily made. It does not address the root of the problem. That root is that US citizens have the right to not to be preached to within the confines of their own homes, or on their property.
Final note: Contrary to conventional wisdom, there is no law against being a bigot, racist, superiemest, whatever. If someone doesn't want to have something, or someone around them and theirs that have the right to say so (unless of course you are in Canada, then its "hate speach"). What is illegal is to act on that bigotry. If I had to lay money on who is gonna act on their bigotry and toss the first firebomb in today's day and age, I am placing my bets on the moslem; be he a moderate of fundamental.
Exactly what I said -- "and you can hear it."
If you dont like the door to door bible beaters or the rightous busy-bodies getting in your face at the grocery store: TELL THEM SO or blow them off.
Exactly, and that's what people are doing with these Muslims, telling them it's not appreciated. So maybe they themselves might learn not to get in peoples' faces in the first place.
Come to NYC - many small Jewish owned business are closed on Saturdays and guess what I dont take that as them enforcing their beliefs on me.
That's their choice. It was not dictated by government as Sunday laws are.
"*GASP* Do you mean to tell me that evil men actually twist their religion to justify their sins? No, it couldn't be true."
When one compares Islam to any other religion, it must not be done on the basis of what MEN do, because men can be corrupt and have ulterior motives. It must be on the basis of what the religion says you SHOULD do. Contrary to your Old Testament quotes, Christianity has long said "thou shall not kill" (except in self defense). Christianity and Judaism have both undergone Reformations and Enlightenments which brought further reforms to civilization.
These very religious men decided it was becoming more important to think in terms of regional interests, rather than religious ones that were governed by Rome. This Reformation, that many observe as the first acknowledgment of a separation between church and state, has also been called the turning point in civilization. Islam has had nothing of the sort...nor do they wish too.
Islam says "kill the infidel" and "kill the Muslim apostate". Thus, a pious Christian must not kill, but a pious Muslim MUST kill (and his rewards are great, 72 perpetual virgins in heaven, and all the wine he can drink, and all the boys and girls for his sexual pleasure). Islam is the only religion that religiously sanctions murder. So, yes...while Men have corrupted the Faiths, it is still Islam whose Faith is corrupting Men.
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