Posted on 05/17/2004 7:06:39 AM PDT by qam1
VIEW MEGACHURCHES AS SLICK, IMPERSONAL
For evidence of generational upheaval these days, you might skip over the usual suspects -- sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll -- and consider instead Christianity.
Two decades after baby boomers invented the suburban megachurch, which removed crosses or stained-glass images of Jesus in favor of neutral environments, their children are now wearing "Jesus Is My Homeboy" T-shirts.
As mainline churches scramble to retain young people, these worshippers have gained attention by-creating alternative churches in coffee bars and warehouses and publishing new magazines and Bibles that come on as anything but church.
But does a T-shirt really serve the faith? And if religion is our link to the timeless, what does it mean that young Christians replace their parents' practices?
The movement "has a noble side," said Michael Novak, the conservative theologian at the American Enterprise Institute. He remembers how much he enjoyed the Christian comic books of his youth. He compared the alt-evangelicals to missionaries, who "feel they've learned something valuable from their faith and want to share it" using the native language.
For many in this generation, the worship style of their parents feels impersonal: not bigger than their daily, media-intensified lives, but smaller. Their search is for unfiltered religious ex-perience.
"My generation is discontented with dead religion," said Cameron Strang, 28, founder of Relevant Media, which produces Christian books, a Web site and Relevant magazine, a stylish 70,000-circulation bimonthly that addresses topics like body piercing, celibacy, extreme prayer, punk rock and God.
Strang, a graduate of Oral Roberts University, is in some ways a model alt-evangelical, with two earrings, a shaved head and beard. He left a megachurch, he said, because he felt no community at the slick services. Now he attends an alternative church in a school gym, with intimate groups and basketball after services.
This stylistic shift is critical, said Lee Rabe, pastor at Threads, an alternative, or "emerging," church in Kalamazoo, Mich. Where megachurches reached out to baby boomers turned off by church, the younger generation often has no experience with religion. They need to be beguiled, not assuaged, Rabe said.
"The deity-free 'church lite' of the megachurches, that's the last thing these people want," he said. "They want to talk about God. It's hard-core, not in a fire and brimstone way, but it has to be raw, real."
The changes are often more stylistic than doctrinal. Many alt-evangelicals espouse conservative theology, but reject the censure of some churches. Strang sees this as a blueprint for an evangelical left.
"We're all sinners," he said. "Your sin isn't any worse than my sin. We don't say, 'Stop the horrible gays.' You want to reach them, you don't want to protest them. If we looked like goody-two-shoes, clean cut, we couldn't have a conversation with our lesbian friend at the coffee shop, because she couldn't relate."
Increasingly, this conversation borrows from pop culture, in the same way that hip secular culture borrows the cabala and the cross.
Critics say this engagement comes at a price. Timothy Williams, 48, a pastor at Sound Doctrine Ministries, a non-denominational church in Enumclaw, Wash., sees flirtation with pop culture as a capitulation to sin. "More and more, the church is seeking to be like the world around it," said Williams, who has written a pamphlet denouncing Christian rock. "But the Bible says that anyone who becomes a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. If we're going to be relevant or on the world's level to draw people, we might as well give free beer in the parking lot."
But evangelicals have long used pop culture and new technology to spread their gospel, said Stephen Prothero, chairman of the religion department at Boston University.
Christian tracts handed out in the 19th century were one of the first mass media. In the 1930s, the evangelist Charles Fuller used the new medium of radio to broadcast his sermons. Four decades later, the Jesus movement of the 1970s adopted the vibe of the 1960s counterculture.
The actor Stephen Baldwin, a born-again Christian, has just directed a DVD called Livin' It, pairing extreme sports with faith testimony, from which he hopes to spin skate Bibles, clothing, CDs and Bible-study guides, all tied to a non-profit youth ministry.
"This could be the first get-down rock 'n' roll, cool Christian brand," he said.
The underlying romance is familiar from any Nirvana video: the Christian as rebel or outsider, misunderstood, struggling against a world of conformity, commercialism and manufactured pleasures.
"It's a countercultural thing," said Tim Lucas, 33, pastor of an emerging ministry called Liquid in Basking Ridge, N.J. On a recent Sunday, Lucas wore a Hawaiian shirt and used images from The Lord of the Rings movies and a clip from Amadeus in a sermon about the book of First Samuel.
"They identify with being an underground movement, which is what Christianity was in the beginning," Lucas said of his congregation. "Living out a life with Christ at the center draws a lot of flak. Not a lot of people will celebrate that."
The movement away from middle-of-the-road theology and worship mirrors a trend on college campuses, where growing numbers of students claim either no religion or strong religious affiliation, with the middle ground shrinking, said Alexander Astin, director of the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, which last year completed a national study of students' beliefs.
In the survey, more than 70 percent of students said they prayed, discussed religion or spirituality with friends, found religion personally helpful and gained spiritual strength by trusting in a higher power.
lol...well, it wouldn't work at our church or in our area. We're out in the sticks of Foster, RI...back country. Our youth are more interested in horses than tattoos.
Personally, I think it's an ok idea, if you think it can help people come closer to Jesus. Our bodies are just a shell anyway...
I have put one through Calvin College and have two years left for the other there.
>>The bible says that faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
These guys are telling us that faith and hearing come by being cool enough to relate to today's youth. <<
On the surface it would appear that way, but it is not that simple. I am 50 and play bass and sing in our morning worship service. I also teach high scool bible study at my church. I can tell you that music is an important aspect of the Christian experience and always has been - As catalogued in both the Old and New Testaments.
That said, you're not enhancing the experience of a 20 year old with Christian music in the style of Lawrence Welk. Out of curiosity, when you listen to the music you like on your own time, do you listen to much organ or choir music?
If the answer is no, why would that kind of music inspire you in church? It is culture and nothing more. And to reach a people - ANY people - you must speak to them within their own cultural context.
Yes, you can go overboard but then, that is true with everything.
It's not the music. And it's not even the instrumentation. It's the intent that is flawed. And the intent is to slant everything toward secularism. It's the draw of it. The promise of full pews (whether they are saved or not). The promise of being bigger and better. The chance for old musicians like you and I to still perform. For the tech guys to do their thing. For the crowd to "experience" worship. There is nothing biblical about it most of the time.
That's my opinion.
When you mentioned law firms earlier, this wouldn't happen to be one of them?
Cadwalader....
>>I learn more on my own or from a small group of believers than I EVER did from a sermon in a church, which are primarily social clubs.<<
Did you notice that aspect of post #32? I was reading and noticed that every single advantage mentioned of her ex-church was purely social and had nothing to do with Christianity or the word of God.
I think big churches can offer the same intimacy of small churches, even though I really prefer the intimacy of my small church. But they have to do it through "small group" activities. However, I would rather see a community peppered with 100 churches with 200 members each than 1 church with 20,000 members. Especially when the churches can get together to "combine" events.
Regarding your comment about nudity, what do you think about "david?"
Also, as a Christian musician, I take very seriously this scripture:
Psalm 33
1 Sing joyfully to the LORD , you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
How do we define "new song?"
"And we are called to that intimacy as far as I can tell."
"Abba" means father,,but it is more accurately translated as "daddy".
Right! Thank you, that is the point I was trying to make. [BTW, Barabbas is a play on that idea :) ]
' Jesus is not just "one of the gang". Nor is He equal with us. He is God. '
True, but did you ever hear the scriptures:
Jhn 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are]. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn017.html#11
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; ***heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, ***but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Hbr 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world RICH IN FAITH, and HEIRS of the kingdom which he hath promised to ***THEM THAT LOVE HIM?
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and ***he shall be my son.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
God wants to be our FATHER. I don't know about your father, but my dad would not be offended by my calling him my homeboy; he would be flattered that I thought enough of him to emblazon that across my chest for all the [Christ-hating] world to see.
We are admonished not to throw a stumblingstone in the path of baby Christians:
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for *****God is able to make him stand........
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. [Madonna, and others who seek to mock Christ will have their day in court. I went into the National Cathedral the other day. You can't get better trappings than that - the ornate surroundings, the music, the priestly garments, ceremony, etc. etc. But I was very disturbed by the doorway that was blocked by an ornate iron gate that was festooned with several images of Baphomet. I was also surprised to see one huge buttress that was donated by Eli Lilly. Knowing that the building has a masonic cornerstone, I came away truly feeling I had visited the synagogue of Satan, although I doubt if everyone who goes there is a whited sepulchre. My point is that God tries the hearts and reins of every man, and He WILL be able to separate His sheep from the goats, no matter where they are. The ones who will have the hardest time of it will be those who DELIBERATELY led his 'little children' astray. And if He is not pleased with His childrens' worship, I'm sure He will let them know, because they are sons and not bastards. He will chastize those He considers sons.]
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that **no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
If you slap a baby's hands often enough, he will learn not to reach out at all. Let them reach, and then GENTLY teach them in the ways and the Word of the Lord, but for heavens' sake heed this:
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea. *** http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/18/6.html
>>Why???? I think it's a great thing and gives you a real, good alternative<<
But what about the evil jungle beat? </sarcasm>
Your entire post is simply about a clash of cultures. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity nor the Word of God.
The Amish picked a particular technological timeslice of human history and decided that is where we should live. Some think we should take a particular timeslice of musical culture and that is where the church should exist.
Everyone here must be aware that music is the most contentious issue in the church.
>>I can tell you first hand, the church has crossed the line between worship and entertainment.<<
With all due respect, what you can tell me is that YOUR church as crossed that line. Every church is different.
I used to be annoyed by the choir songs in my old church because I saw it as pure "entertainment" - which is not why I attend church.
I play bass and vocals in our band, but it is leading worship. The congregation sings along. We are constantly keeping our focus on songs with lyrics that promote WORSHIP, not performing. Our best services are when all of us - the musicians AND the congregation - really "get into" the worship service. That is, we enjoy musically telling the Lord just how much we appreciate Him, what He did for us and His promise. We're offering our "fingerpaintings" to daddy. I must refer back to Psalm 33.
I think sometimes we are too critical of "new" stuff and tend to be like the bible thumpers of old that complained of the evil jungle beat of Rock. It really is narrow minded. These things must be addressed on a case by case basis.
I have no problem with new songs. I really do not know what you are talking about.
I don't disagree with that. I would say that I think my church is represenative of many. Maybe not.
I We are constantly keeping our focus on songs with lyrics that promote WORSHIP, not performing.
Yep.. I've played hours of those. Wish I had a dollar for everytime they sang the words "we praise you lord". What's the text about the worship in words alone?
I began becoming disenchanted about a year ago. I think if a person really takes time and studies what worship is, what experientalism is, and what forms of worship and offerings are acceptable to the Lord..... I think a lot of people would re-evaluate things. Maybe not.
Like I say, I've never been to your church.... you guys may very well be right where we were 7 or 8 years ago. If you are, then hold on to it. It's a special place. The other side of that line in front of you is not special.
AFter reading several of your posts, am I to understand that your idea of true worship is doing a naked jungle beat dance?
The nudity/david remark is in response to this from your post "The world is influencing them. It is desensitizing them, so much so that they are not even bothered by language and nudity."
>>AFter reading several of your posts, am I to understand that your idea of true worship is doing a naked jungle beat dance?<<
Hmmm. Maybe you need to read them again. 8^> Although I do like a good jungle beat from time to time.
Oh. I was talking about secular movies in church. I was also referring to church activies that are nothing more than going to the local movie theater to see the latest trashy movie -- one with language and nudity, sex scenes etc... I do not find that worshipful and you will never convince me God is pleased with that form of "worship." Will a church draw teens with that sort of thing? Sure. But that is not "the work of the ministry." Taking donations from people in the name of God to support Hollywood is deeply offensive to me.
Actually, we were on the other side of that line, at least in the opinion of many in our church. What ended up happening was that the woman in charge of the band was offered a paying gig at another church. And this is the creepy part: THE ENTIRE BAND, sans me, went with her. That is when I became the "music director" for my church. For a year the whole band was me and a bunch of teenagers. But it worked and we have improved quite a bit.
That little foray over to the "performance" side of the line gave me the creeps and wasn't really "fun" or particularly edifying. We sing some Hillsongs stuff but mostly semi-traditionally sounding stuff just re-arranged for a four-piece band type of sound - with lots of vocalists.
Our motto is, if the entire congregation ends up on stage, so much the better.
We've got the entire written word of the creator of the universe in our hands to learn from. So why do churches think they need to play movie clips to make a point? There is no logical reason except that they are pointing their services toward the secular lost. Yet if you read the new testament, the purpose of the gathering of the believers was to edify the believers.
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