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NJ politicians: Catholic Church is seeking too big a role, Senate leader leaves Church
Philly.com | 05.09.04 | Tom Turcol

Posted on 05/09/2004 4:02:12 PM PDT by Coleus

N.J. politicians: Church is seeking too big a role




Inquirer Staff Writer

Roman Catholic politicians in New Jersey, including one who left the church yesterday, are expressing anger at what they say is an attempt by church leaders to force them to decide between their government oaths and their religion.

Elected officials said that escalating demands by the church hierarchy in New Jersey that Gov. McGreevey and others vote in accordance with Catholic doctrine on public issues runs counter to the principle of the separation of church and state.

State Senate Majority Leader Bernard Kenny said he told his pastor yesterday that he had decided to leave the church after 57 years.

Senator Bernard F. Kenney, Jr. (D)

If every faith starts trying to impose their rules on elected officials, democracy is going to be factionalized along religious lines," said Kenny, a Democrat from Hudson County.

Another Catholic Democrat, U.S. Rep. William Pascrell Jr. of Essex County, said he "was not sent to Congress to follow the dictates of the Catholic Church. I have to represent everybody in my district. That's what democracy is all about."

Pascrell and others said the church's position also threatened to resurrect the stigma against Catholics running for office that was erased by President John F. Kennedy's election nearly a half-century ago. During the 1960 campaign, Kennedy and Catholic leaders assured a skeptical public that the church would not influence his decisions as president.

"This is exactly what the Catholic Church said 50 years ago would not happen when Catholic politicians were trying to get elected to office," said Kenny, a former altar boy. "It is a total reversal of the position that enabled Catholics to represent people of all faiths and all backgrounds."

The church's increasingly aggressive stance sent shudders through the ranks of Catholic politicians in a state where the majority of elected officials support abortion rights, as do three-quarters of the voters.

The church ignited a political firestorm in the last few weeks when leading clerics, including the archbishop of Newark, declared that McGreevey and other elected officials should be denied Holy Communion because of their support for abortion rights, embryonic stem-cell research, and other programs that run counter to church doctrine.

As the pressure from top clerics grew, McGreevey said he would abide by the church's wishes and not attempt to receive Communion, though he reasserted his independence from the church in running the state.

"I'm a Catholic and I greatly value my faith and draw great strength from it, but I also have a constitutional obligation as governor," McGreevey said in an interview Friday.

The governor, who faces reelection next year, added: "I'm responsible to eight and a half million citizens who represent diverse faiths and backgrounds."

Unlike McGreevey, Pascrell said he would not submit to the church's directive with regard to the Eucharist. "I will continue receiving Communion - not in defiance but out of conscience. I have nothing to apologize for."

State Sen. Raymond Lesniak, a veteran Democrat from Union County, said that he would follow his church's wishes in New Jersey and that he would drive to New York City to receive Communion.

Lesniak, a former altar boy like many of his colleagues, is honorary chairman of this year's Pulaski Day Parade in New York and has been invited to a ceremonial audience with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican this summer. Yet, he said, he cannot receive Communion in his home state.

"The archbishop of Newark has made it clear that our presence is unwelcome at the altar," Lesniak said.

Kenny said that, at a meeting he arranged this weekend with his pastor, Msgr. Frank Del Prete, of SS. Peter and Paul Church in Hoboken, he asked whether he would be denied Communion because of his support for abortion rights and stem-cell research. Kenny said he was told he would be offered Communion one more time "but that then he would tell me not to come again."

"I will look for other options to express my faith and will probably join another Christian church," Kenny said.

"Under the church's position," he said, "the public could justifiably infer that the act of a public official taking Communion means they were following the directives of the church on policy issues."

A spokesman for the Archdiocese of Newark declined to comment on Kenny's decision.

Lesniak said it was "unconscionable" for Newark Archbishop John J. Myers to condone violating the separation of church and state. The church, he said, "ought to be trying to bring people together, not separate them."

"The last thing we need is a religious war in our own country," said Assemblyman Louis Manzo, a Democrat from Hudson County. "By resurrecting this issue, the church is making it harder for Roman Catholics to overcome the barriers that John Kennedy knocked down almost 50 years ago."

The church's stance was also questioned by U.S. Rep. Frank A. LoBiondo, a Republican Catholic from Vineland.

LoBiondo said the church had every right to aggressively assert its positions on issues, but it should not obligate Catholic politicians to vote a certain way.

Democrats are especially worried because the church has singled out members of their party, including McGreevey and Sen. John Kerry, the Democrats' presumptive presidential candidate.

Pascrell and others questioned why the church was targeting Democrats who support abortion rights while ignoring politicians who vote against church positions on issues such as unjust wars and the death penalty.

Some Catholic politicians said they did not want to be quoted for fear of antagonizing either voters or the church.

Analysts said the church's stance represents a political wild card in a highly urbanized, ethnic state such as New Jersey, where more than of half the voters are Catholic, as are a substantial portion of its local, state and federal officeholders.

New Jersey is one of the nation's most politically moderate states, with polls showing that three-quarters of voters favor abortion rights.

Surveys show that New Jersey Catholics support abortion rights by roughly the same overwhelming proportion, as do a great majority of Catholic officeholders in the state.

Some, however, said that passionate appeals from the pulpit could influence enough Catholics to affect the outcome of close elections.

The Democrats' most immediate concern is Kerry, who is running neck-and-neck with Bush in most public opinion polls. Several of this year's battleground states, including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois and Michigan, have sizable numbers of Catholic voters.

McGreevey has endured a rocky first term and is considered highly vulnerable in his bid for a second term next year. A concerted challenge by church officials could hurt him in a close race.

McGreevey's landslide election in 2001 was attributed largely to his decision early in the campaign to highlight his views on abortion.

During the campaign, McGreevey's frequent references to his days as an altar boy and his Catholic faith helped him win the Catholic vote by a wide margin, even capturing the support of Catholics from more conservative, blue-collar areas.

"In a close race you can't afford to lose even 5 percent of the Catholic vote in this state," said David Rebovich, director of Political Science at Rider University.

Rebovich said pressure from the church could cause McGreevey and other Catholic politicians to change their positions on issues such as abortion, risking a loss of credibility with voters.

McGreevey, for one, said there would be no change in his positions.

The governor said he was "strongly and unequivocally" in favor of a woman's right to choose an abortion, adding that there was no place for government interference in what he said was "an intensely personal decision between the woman and her doctor."

Many said the church's position could deter Catholics from getting involved in politics.

"If the price of running for public office is a public scolding by your bishop, then many may choose not to run," said Thomas O'Neil, a past executive director of the state Democratic Party.

LoBiondo and Pascrell said the church was creating an untenable standard both for Catholic politicians and religious officials.

They noted that some issues are so complex that a lawmaker could be both in compliance and in violation of church doctrine on the same piece of legislation.

"It's difficult because on many issues there's not a hard and fast line on where people stand," LoBiondo said, noting that lawmakers generally support certain aspects of an issue or legislation while opposing others.

"Will a bishop or priest understand someone's voting record completely, and how are they going to make that decision in the Communion line?" LoBiondo said.

A Democratic state legislator, who asked not to be named, agreed, saying, "What are we going to do, have priests standing at the Communion rail with legislative indexes in their hands?"

McGreevey and Communion Articles


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: archbishopmyers; bernardkenny; billpascrell; bishop; catholicchurch; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; catholicvote; catholicvoter; dems; galante; goodriddance; mccarrick; mcgreevey; myers; newjersey; nj; njpoliticians; raymondlesniak
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To: Coleus
Adios CINOs!
61 posted on 05/09/2004 6:11:43 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Coleus
New Jersey is one of the nation's most politically moderate states, with polls showing that three-quarters of voters favor abortion rights.

Only the media would consider that moderate. Good Lord.

62 posted on 05/09/2004 6:39:14 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Rick Nash will score 40 goals this season...)
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To: Stagerite
"The Catholic church is still being heavily damaged in the ongoing homosexual child abuse scandal, and now it is overreacting in demanding that Catholic politicians adhere to what amounts to matter-of-faith dogma. Catholic prelates should get their collective nose out of secular matters."

Bump to that. This is like someone standing on the Tower of Babylon calling out moral edicts to the people below.
63 posted on 05/09/2004 6:46:27 PM PDT by NJ_gent
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To: buccaneer81
Only the media would consider that moderate. Good Lord

Good catch and agreed. Imagine what the current editorial board of the NYT would write if it found itself magically transported to Germany circa 1938:

Berlin is one of Germany's most politically moderate cities, with only 50% of the population polled in favour of transporting Jews to concentration camps...

It really makes you wonder if these writers ever ever leave the little social bubbles that they live and work in...

64 posted on 05/09/2004 6:50:31 PM PDT by jscd3
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To: tenthirteen
"This is no different; follow those rules and stay or break them and leave. No one can have it both ways."

In that case, why is it the Church isn't querying every abortion clinic in the nation to find any Catholics who've had an abortion so they can be expelled from the Church? Why aren't they amassing lists to be posted in churches barring convicted rapists, murders, child molesters, and other major offenders from receiving communion? Are politicians special? They're no more or less human (jokes aside) than any of the rest of us, yet they receive special, public attention from the Church when it suits the Church. Having failed over the past 60 or so years to identify and deal correctly with the problem of homosexual priests molesting and raping children, and with further attempts to block the removal of priests shown to have raped or molested only a few children, I find it patently absurd for them to now come out on some sort of moral high ground on an issue they've been all but silent on in the past. This is a blatent political power play, and it should be disturbing to every decent freedom-loving person that the Church wants to exercise control over the actions of our leaders. I don't want to live in a Catholic version of Iran, and I suspect the founding fathers didn't either. If the Church wants to properly address abortion, it ought to be mobilizing its followers world-wide to lobby our leaders to make it once again illegal. Trying to blackmail them into doing what the Church wants them to do isn't right, isn't fair, and isn't going to work.
65 posted on 05/09/2004 6:57:19 PM PDT by NJ_gent
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To: NJ_gent
This is like someone standing on the Tower of Babylon calling out moral edicts to the people below.

Or like Moses hauling down the Ten Commandments.

66 posted on 05/09/2004 7:02:21 PM PDT by Stagerite
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To: Stagerite
Catholic prelates should get their collective nose out of secular matters.

Since when was receiving the Eucharist, or publically claiming adherence to the Catholic Faith, a secular matter?

67 posted on 05/09/2004 7:03:29 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: The Old Hoosier
The Church needs a lot of winnowing. Next step should be the falling away of academics like O'Brien.
68 posted on 05/09/2004 7:04:24 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: NJ_gent
This amounts to a repudiation of the position that Cuomo took in his Notre Dame speech. It is pure sophistry, but it was acceptable to the majority of bishops at that time, the same ones who were turning their heads away from the problem of pederasty among priests. The bishops now taking action represent a new generation of bishops.
69 posted on 05/09/2004 7:08:20 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: GreatOne
Well, render unto the Governor that which is Governor's...
70 posted on 05/09/2004 7:15:28 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: NJ_gent
In that case, why is it the Church isn't querying every abortion clinic in the nation to find any Catholics who've had an abortion so they can be expelled from the Church? Why aren't they amassing lists to be posted in churches barring convicted rapists, murders, child molesters, and other major offenders from receiving communion? Are politicians special?

Any public person is "special" when they pronounce their own Catholicism for public consumption when they try to lead other Catholics by their own example. That's called causing scandal, and it's quite serious.

This is no knee-jerk reaction. American bishops have given such politicians over 30 years to figure this out. The faith doesn't change with the polls. Most bishops are still ignoring "Catholic" politicians attending their Churches for photo-ops, while actively working to promote things the Church has always taught to constitute grave evil. And, unlike your speculation, these are not the bishops most enthusiastic about rooting out the pedophile priests. Quite the opposite.

This is a blatent political power play, and it should be disturbing to every decent freedom-loving person that the Church wants to exercise control over the actions of our leaders. I don't want to live in a Catholic version of Iran, and I suspect the founding fathers didn't either.

If you can't see the difference between this and the Iranian Mullahs, you're either a bigot or a fool.

In this case the penalty for not following the Church teaching has been a 30 year free pass, followed by the threat of being exposed as not believing what the Church teaches. That's all. No civil penalty of any kind. Politicians who relied on a Catholic image to deceive voters into pulling the lever for them are, in the words of Archbishop Myers, being "called to honesty." Those who dissent from the Church are being told to stop pretending otherwise.

71 posted on 05/09/2004 7:40:42 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: Stagerite
now it is overreacting in demanding that Catholic politicians adhere to what amounts to matter-of-faith dogma.

If you rewrite this slightly,

... demanding that Catholics adhere to Catholic dogma ...

it seems to be inherent in the idea of 'religion'.

I can't see how someone is a 'Catholic politician' if they do not adhere to 'Catholic dogma'.

72 posted on 05/09/2004 7:43:08 PM PDT by slowhandluke
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To: Coleus
"Roman Catholic politicians in New Jersey, including one who left the church yesterday, are expressing anger at what they say is an attempt by church leaders to force them to decide between their government oaths and their religion."

How can you vote on something that goes against your faith, since your faith is who you are not something you do?

They dont like having to make a choice between politics and religion. what this seems to be saying to me is these politicians dont want to be forced to chose between heaven or hell/the world or Christ-they want thier cake and eat it too.

good riddence!

73 posted on 05/09/2004 7:44:11 PM PDT by OMalley
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Abortion Foes Target Cardinal McCarrick
74 posted on 05/09/2004 7:47:08 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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Comment #75 Removed by Moderator

To: Ann Archy
He only left his Secondary religion...his First religion is Democrat!

Not so as with the vast majority of politicians their first religion is POWER
76 posted on 05/09/2004 7:57:42 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: ninenot
Gotta give the guy credit for honesty. He's not going to practice the Faith, he left.

Total BS his only religion is quest for power
If he was honest he would have left his so called faith long ago
77 posted on 05/09/2004 8:00:00 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: Coleus
Now that the churches are getting some 'qumquats'and speaking out as they should have for years, these 'bummy', erzatz Catholic politicians are feeling the heat and they don't like it one bit--they have a choice, and this one made his, either follow the dictates and rules of the religion that you profess to be a part of or get out of it (answer to God in any event)--don't keep trying to suck up the votes of those who try to follow the Word of God along with the votes of those who defy it--now his constituency can see his "true colors" and can vote accordingly---
78 posted on 05/09/2004 8:00:02 PM PDT by cmotormac44
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To: doug from upland
"Another Catholic Democrat, U.S. Rep. William Pascrell Jr. of Essex County, said he "was not sent to Congress to follow the dictates of the Catholic Church. I have to represent everybody in my district. That's what democracy is all about."

I can't think of any statement from a politician more full of shit than this, except maybe "I never had sex with that woman". Since when did a frickin Democrat give a good goddamn about anybody who wasn't a card-carrying communist or leftist socialist sympathizer and fellow traveler. I have two communist Democrat senators in my state, and there's NO WAY these prix (male and female) have done anything but screw me and mine up and down each and every day of their miserable senatorial lives.

I agree that the Church needs to stand firm on principle in this matter. Those who disagree and find they can't support the Church's position should leave the Church, rather than expect the Church to accommodate their heretical views.
79 posted on 05/09/2004 8:03:40 PM PDT by vanmorrison
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To: wrathof59
"The archbishop of Newark has made it clear that our presence is unwelcome at the altar," Lesniak said.

You got that right!
80 posted on 05/09/2004 8:20:33 PM PDT by Old fashioned
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