Al Qaeda-Iraqi relationship proven beyond any doubt.

ABC World News Now | 4/27/2004

[Beckwith]

ABC World News Now. April 27, 2004

In an interview broadcast by ABC's World News Now, the leader of the Al Qaeda cell organizing the explosive and chemical attack on the Jordanian security headquarters and the American Embassy in Jordan stated that he received his training from Al-Zawahiri in Iraq, prior to the fall of Afghanistan.

[AFPhys]

You can assert it all you want, but that doesn't make it true.

I submit for the following my take on the AlQ<>Hussein connection, from my limited but extensive study of the public evidence:

If I were on a jury in a murder case and had similar evidence presented to me, I would:
• Vote GUILTY
• Vote NO death penalty

There is clearly enough public evidence of AlQ<>Hussein to make that guilty call. There is clearly sufficient other evidence of serious wrong doing by SH to have taken him out completely.

[lugsoul]

Now you are just running misdirection. I haven't claimed that there wasn't any evidence of a connection. I did challenge your contention that the Kurds didn't control NE Iraq. You claimed they didn't, and you have not posted a shred of evidence in support of that claim.

[Peach]

Bush has steadfastly maintained that he feels there is a link; we just haven't found the smoking gun yet. Or smoking enough to convince the naysayers, that is.

There is no doubt that Saddam KNEW that 9/11 was coming. His comments in his own newspaper, direct quotes, prove that he knew it was coming.

As well, you would have to answer these headlines before you said we just had circumstantial evidence:


Bin Laden and Iraq
By Anonymous
FrontPageMagazine.com | July 14, 2003



I decided to look back to 1999 to see what links there may have been between Saddam and OBL. I found hundreds of articles. Here are condensed summaries of some of the more relevant ones.ÝÝI wonder why no one is talking about these articles and links today.


- - - - -


The Herald (Glasgow, Scotland), December 28, 1999.


Iraq tempts bin Laden to attack West
Exclusive. By: Ian Bruce, Geopolitics Editor.

THE world's most wanted man, Osama bin Laden, has been offered sanctuary in Iraq if his worldwide terrorist network succeeds in carrying out a campaign of high-profile attacks on the WestÝ ...


Now we are also facing the prospect of an unholy alliance between bin Laden and Saddam. The implications are terrifying.


"We might be looking at the most wanted man on the FBI's target list gaining access to chemical, biological or even nuclear weapons courtesy of Iraq's clandestine research programmes."


The U.S. intelligence community has been squeezing bin Laden's finances steadily for several years. His personal fortune of anything up to £500m has been whittled down to single figures ...


- - - - -


U.S. Newswire, December 23, 1999.


Terrorism Expert Reveals Why Osama bin Laden has Declared War On America; Available for Comment in Light of Predicted Attacks.


... (author Yossef) Bodansky also reveals the relationship between bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and how the U.S. bombing of Iraq is "strengthening the hands of militant Islamists eager to translate their rage into violence and terrorism."Ý ....


- - - - -


The Observer. December 19, 1999.


Sanctions reviewed in West as Saddam wields sword of Islam


The Iraqi dictator has rejected a UN deal to lift sanctions. The Western blockade, far from toppling the regime, has bolstered it. He's ditched the sunglasses and taken up the Koran to harness the fervour ofÝ fundamentalists.


By: Jason Burke, in Baghdad


... This time last year the U.S. claimed that another delegation had met Osama bin Laden, the alleged terrorist mastermind and tried to woo him to Iraq.


Senior officials claim that the Islamisation programme is an attempt to defuse the threat of Islamic militancy rather than encourage it ...


- - - - -


United Press International. November 3, 1999, Wednesday, BC cycle.


WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government has tried to prevent accused terror suspect Osama bin Laden from fleeing Afghanistan to either Iraq or Chechnya, Michael Sheehan, head of counter-terrorism at the State Department, told a Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee ...


- - - - -


Akron Beacon Journal (Ohio). October 31, 1999. Sunday 1 STAR EDITION.


BIN LADEN SPOTTED AFTER OFFER TO LEAVE
By: From Beacon Journal wire services


DATELINE: JALALABAD, AFGHANISTAN:


... The Taliban has since made it known through official channels that the likely destination is Iraq.


A Clinton administration official said bin Laden's request "falls far short" of the UN resolution that the Taliban deliver him for trial....


- - - - -


The Kansas City Star. March 2, 1999, Tuesday.


International terrorism, a conflict without boundaries


By Rich Hood


... He (bin Laden)Ýhas a private fortune ranging from $250 million to $500 million and is said to be cultivating a new alliance with Iraq's Saddam Hussein, who has biological and chemical weapons bin Laden would not hesitate to use. An alliance between bin Laden and Saddam Hussein could be deadly. Both men are united in their hatred for the United States and any country friendly to the United States....


- - - - -


Los Angeles Times. February 23, 1999, Tuesday, Home Edition.
SECTION: Metro; Part B; Page 6; Letters Desk.
HEADLINE: OSAMA BIN LADEN


Where is Osama bin Laden (Feb. 14)? That should be the U.S.'s main priority. If as rumored he and Saddam Hussein are joining forces, it could pose a threat making Hitler and Mussolini seem like a sideshow....


- - - - -


National Public Radio (NPR)
MORNING EDITION (10:00 AM on ET)
February 18, 1999.


THOUGH AFGHANISTAN HAS PROVIDED OSAMA BIN LADEN WITH SANCTUARY, IT IS UNCLEAR WHERE HE IS NOW.
ANCHORS: BOB EDWARDS
REPORTERS: MIKE SHUSTER


... There have also been reports in recent months that bin Laden might have been considering moving his operations to Iraq. Intelligence agencies in several nations are looking into that. According to Vincent Cannistraro, a former chief of CIA counterterrorism operations, a senior Iraqi intelligence official, Farouk Hijazi(ph), sought out bin Laden in December and invited him to come to Iraq.


Mr. VINCENT CANNISTRARO (Former Chief of CIA Counterterrorism Operations): Farouk Hijazi, who was the Iraqi ambassador in Turkey ... known through sources in Afghanistan, members of Osama's entourage let it be known that the meeting had taken place.


SHUSTER: Iraq's contacts with bin Laden go back some years, to at least 1994, when, according to one U.S. government source, Hijazi met him when bin Laden lived in Sudan. According to Cannistraro, Iraq invited bin Laden to live in Baghdad to be nearer to potential targets of terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There is a wide gap between bin Laden's fundamentalism and Saddam Hussein's secular dictatorship. But some experts believe bin Laden might be tempted to live in Iraq because of his reported desire to obtain chemical or biological weapons. CIA director George Tenet referred to that in recent testimony....


- - - - -


Agence France Presse. February 17, 1999.


Saddam plans to use bin Laden against Kuwait, Saudi: opposition


Iraq's President Saddam Hussein plans to use alleged terrorist Osama bin Laden's network to carry out his threats against Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, an Iraqi opposition figure charged on Wednesday.
"If the ... Jaber, a member of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), said Iraq had "offered to shelter bin Laden under the precondition that he carry out strikes on targets in neighbouring countries."


... Islamic fundamentalist bin Laden, who has gone missing from his base in Afghanistan, would never seek refuge in secular Iraq on ideological grounds. "I think bin Laden would keep quiet or fight to the death rather than seek asylum in Iraq," the London-based dissident, who asked not to be named, told AFP last week.....


- - - - -


Deutsche Presse-Agentur. February 17, 1999, Wednesday, BC Cycle


Opposition group says bin Laden in Iraq


DATELINE: Kuwait City


An Iraqi opposition group claimed in a published report Wednesday that Islamic militant Osama bin Laden is in Iraq from where he plans to launch a campaign of terrorism against Baghdad's Gulf neighbours.


The claim was made by Bayan Jabor, spokesman for the Teheran-based Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI).


Bin Laden "recently settled in Iraq at the invitation of Saddam Hussein in exchange for directing strikes against targets in neighbouring countries," Jabor told the Kuwaiti newspaper al-Rai al- Aam ... Taleban leaders in Afghanistan, where he had been living, said they lost track of him. Media reports have speculated he sought refuge in Chechnya, Somalia, Iraq, or with a non-Taliban group in Afghanistan.


Jabor, who was interviewed in Damascus, Syria, said Iraq began extending invitations to bin Laden six months ago, shortly after the United States bombed his suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan after linking him with the August 7 bombings of U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and in Dar-es-Salam, Tanzania.


The United States indicted Bin Laden for the embassy bombings and has offered a five million dollar reward for information leading to his capture. Bin Laden's disappearance has coincided with stepped up threats by Iraq against neighbours Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Turkey for allowing the United States and Britain to use their air bases to carry out air patrols over two "no-fly" zones over northern and southern Iraq ....


- - - - -


Associated Press Worldstream. February 14, 1999.


Taliban leader says whereabouts of bin Laden unknown


... Analysts say bin Laden's options for asylum are limited.


Iraq was considered a possible destination because bin Laden had received an invitation from Iraqi President Saddam Hussein last month. And Somalia was a third possible destination because of its anarchy and violent anti-U.S. historyÝ....


- - - - -


San Jose Mercury News (California).Ý February 14, 1999 Sunday MORNING FINAL EDITION


U.S. WORRIED ABOUT IRAQI, BIN LADEN TIES TERRORIST COULD GAIN EVEN
DEADLIER WEAPONS


U.S. intelligence officials are worried that a burgeoning alliance between terrorist leader Osama bin Laden and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein could make the fugitive Saudi's loose-knit organization much more dangerous ...


In addition, the officials said, Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal is now in Iraq, as is aÝrenowned Palestinian bomb designer, and both could make their expertise available to bin Laden.


"It's clear the Iraqis would like to have bin Laden in Iraq," said Vincent Cannistraro, a former head of counterterrorism operations at the Central Intelligence AgencyÝ ...


Saddam has even offered asylum to bin Laden, who has expressed support for Iraq.


... (in) late December, when bin Laden met a senior Iraqi intelligence official near Qandahar, Afghanistan, there has been increasing evidence that bin Laden and Iraq may have begun cooperating in planning attacks against American and British targets around the world.


Bin Laden, who strikes in the name of Islam, and Saddam, one of the most secular rulers in the Arab world, have little in common except their hatred of the United States ...


More worrisome, the American officials said, are indications that there may be contacts between bin Laden's organization and Iraq's Special Security Organization (SSO), run by Saddam's son Qusay. Both the SSO and the Mukhabarat were involved in a failed 1993 plot to assassinate former President George Bush ...


"The idea that the same people who are hiding Saddam's biological weapons may be meeting with Osama bin Laden is not a happy one," said one American official....


- - - - -


Associated Press Worldstream. February 13, 1999; Saturday 14:32 Eastern Time


Bin Laden said to have left Afghanistan, whereabouts unknown


... It is very unlikely bin Laden could remain in Afghanistan without Taliban officials knowing his whereabouts.


Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who has expressed support for Iraq.


U.S. officials believe bin Laden masterminded the Aug. 7 bombings of its embassies in Kenya and Tanzania ...


Bin Laden urged devout Muslims to attack U.S. and British interests in retaliation for their joint assault on Iraq.


U.S. officials demanded that the Taliban hand over bin Laden, who has been indicted in a U.S. court on murder charges in connection with the bombings. But the Taliban had refused.


- - - - -


The Bulletin's Frontrunner. January 4, 1999, Monday.


Defiant Saddam Looks To Provoke U.S.


... Time also reported, "For now, the White House will respond to each provocation by counterattacking the offending battery."


Saddam Reaching Out To bin Laden.


Newsweek (1/11, Contreras) reported, "U.S. sources say (Saddam) is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden." ...


(Osama bin Laden was) calling for all-out war on Americans, using as his main pretext Washington's role in bombing and boycotting Iraq." In a Newsweek interview, bin Laden said that "'any American who pays taxes to hisÝ government," is a legitimate target." Newsweek reported, "The idea of an alliance between Iraq and bin Laden is alarming to the West," although "Saddam may think he's too good for such an association." However, "Now that the United States has made his removal from office a national objective....


- - - - -


The White House Bulletin. Copyright 1999. Bulletin Broadfaxing Network, Inc.


In a Newsweek interview, bin Laden said that "'any American who pays taxes to his government," is a legitimate target." Newsweek reported, "The idea of an alliance between Iraq and bin Laden is alarming to the West," although "Saddam may think he's too good for such an association." However, "Now that the United States has made his removal from office a national objective, he....


- - - - -


United Press International. January 3, 1999, Sunday, BC cycle.


UPI Focus: Bin Laden 'instigated' embassy bombings


... (The Taliban) government in Afghanistan says the Saudi does not have the money to finance projects in the country. Newsweek also reported that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has been making new overtures to bin Laden in an attempt to rebuild his intelligence network and to create his own terror network....

[frgoff]

The Weekly Standard and National Review are not magazines I would consider part of the media.

This is called a "Shoot the Messenger" fallacy, and is a trick commonly used when the actual substance of an argument cannot be refuted.

[KingKangaroo]

Its becoming fairly clear that many nations knew there was something up.

[Peach]

As well, billbears, a constant naysayer and disrupter to WMD threads, has ignored the fact that several links I sent to him were from his favorite presstitutes: NYT and Newsweek.

There will never be enough proof for him because he doesn't let the facts get in the way of his opinion.

[AFPhys]

I am not going to bother to rehash the "evidence" you have been given by many others, as well as that which you have already "explained away". I will not get into a moving goalposts discussion.

You need more evidence: fine. Not guilty.

I don't. GUILTY.

If we need a 100% for conviction, you have allowed the perp go free.

[frgoff]

But, you see, if you dismiss each point in isolation, then there is no pattern because there are no individuals points.

That's how the flawed logic goes.

[sheltonmac]

There is no doubt that Saddam KNEW that 9/11 was coming. His comments in his own newspaper, direct quotes, prove that he knew it was coming.

Then it would be safe to say that the U.S. government also knew it was coming, right?

[Peach]

Read this and tell me if you read it, along with the other DAILY threats which, when the paperwork is stacked on top of each other reaches the size of 16 large phone books, if you would know what day and where exactly the attack would be coming from. Then tell me what you'd do about it and what you think the reaction would be in a pre-9/11 world:

(BTW - be careful - your anti-Americanism is showing).

More importantly, considering that less than two months before 9/11/01, the state-controlled Iraqi newspaper “Al-Nasiriya” carried a column headlined, “American, an Obsession called Osama Bin Ladin.” (July 21, 2001)

In the piece, Baath Party writer Naeem Abd Muhalhal predicted that bin Laden would attack the US “with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House.”

The same state-approved column also insisted that bin Laden “will strike America on the arm that is already hurting,” and that the US “will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs” – an apparent reference to the Sinatra classic, “New York, New York”.

[frgoff]

Both Osman Ali and Didar Khaled Khedr say two former Iraqi intelligence agents are among Ansar's leaders

Yep. When an intelligence agent says they're a former intelligence agent, I believe them.

[lugsoul]

You are still running misdirection.

I know it is hard for you, so let me lay it out step-by-step.

1) The initial premise of this article and its boosting posts is that the confession that this Jordan terrorist hooked up with Ansar in Iraq is "proof-positive" of the link.

2) The premise of my reply is that THIS ONE FACT is not proof-positive of anything, because Ansar was not in Saddam-controlled Iraq.

3) You replied that the Kurds did not control NE Iraq.

4) I asked for any proof of your assertion.

5) You have provided none.

[WOSG]

"Ansar was not in Saddam-controlled Iraq. "

excuse me for butting in, but Saddam supported several terrorist groups outside his country in places he didnt 'control'. NFLP for example.

Right now, we have evidence Iran is bankrolling al-Sadr in Iraq. Of course nobody would say Iran is 'controlling' Iraqi territory.

So my Q: How does this assertion/argument prove anything dispositive?

[WOSG]

"LOL. Don't let the tin foil get to tight--see tagline."

This is your respose to a *question*??

your argumentation is basically a conspiracy-theory ad hominem and then retreat into gibbering when faced with facts, so this latest non sequitor of yours has a certain pot/kettle/black flavor to it.

[lugsoul]

WOSG, you have it backwards. I am not claiming that "Ansar was not in Saddam-controlled Iraq" proves that Saddam was not tied to Ansar. I am claiming that the fact that Ansar was in Iraq, in an area NOT controlled by Saddam, is NOT "proof positive" of the Saddam-AQ connection.

Look at the headline. The only evidence in the article is that the Jordan terrorist had hooked up with Ansar. Ansar was not in an area controlled by Saddam. This is not proof of any connection between Saddam and AQ. As you said, Saddam was involved with terror groups in other states where he did not exercise control. But the existence of those groups in those areas, alone, does not operate as proof of the Saddam connection. Same with this one.

[JohnGalt]

Faced with facts? LOL You are truly priceless.

[Peach]

We need to accept we're dealing with DU'er trolls who are off their meds.

They will try to push misinformation everywhere they can, especially on WMD threads.

No one believes a word out of their mouths, except them. They get sillier and sillier in their moving goalposts and foolish arguments which has destroyed whatever reputation they ever had on FR.

[lugsoul]

Peach, if you are talking about me, you need to remember your FR courtesy.

[Peach]

Yes, you are right.

[Dr. Frank fan]

Evidence of alQ training camps in Irq BEFORE 9/11.

That's what this thread is about. The Ansar al Islam (=a subsidiary of Al Qaeda) camp in northern Iraq existed before 9/11 and trained Al Qaeda people there, according to the direct testimony (not "hearsay") of one of them.

I would also submit Salman Pak as a likely training camp which was, at times, visited by Al Qaeda members. Jihadis were taught how to hijack airplanes there. I don't know why that shouldn't count unless people are nit-picking semantics over who "counts" as "Al Qaeda" and who doesn't.

Bandying about stuff like Saddy was supporting alQ before 9/11 weakens our case by clouding the main issue.

How can it "weaken our case" or "cloud the main issue" if it's TRUE?

If it's TRUE then it IS the main issue. And for what it's worth I have absolutely no doubt that it's true: Saddam *was* supporting Al Qaeda before 9/11.

P.S. By the way, even that issue is something of a red herring. You seem to be implying that it would be "okay" if Saddam had been supporting Al Qaeda, but only *after* 9/11. Say what?? That makes no sense. If, as you seem to want to imply, Saddam only allied with our declared enemy after they had attacked our country, then even that, by itself, would be sufficient casus belli.