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FAILING PUBLIC SCHOOLS -- Why Little Billy Feels Good About Himself But Can't Read or Write!
Iconoclast.ca ^ | by Hans Zeiger

Posted on 04/21/2004 3:02:46 PM PDT by BurkesLaw

"All men by nature desire to know," said Aristotle. Either Aristotle was wrong, or public education is failing to awaken the academic desires of American students.

According to a new Manhattan Institute for Policy Research study funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, only 32 percent of recent high school graduates were qualified to attend a four-year college. In addition, the report showed that the high school graduation rate remains depressingly low at only 70 percent.

For years, American education experts have been alarmed at the growing inability of public school students and graduates to compete academically with peers in other industrialized democratic countries. As Charles Sykes wrote in his revolutionary 1990s book, Dumbing Down our Kids: Why America's Children Feel Good about Themselves but Can't Read, Write, or Add , "When the very best American students -- the top one percent -- are measured against the best students of other countries, America's best and brightest finished at the bottom."

While Sykes may have exaggerated the problem, it is true that America's students are average at best.

According to the most recent academic comparison study by the Program for International Student Assessment, of students in 32 developed countries, 14 countries score higher than the U.S. in reading, 13 have better results in science, and 17 score above America in mathematics.

It isn't as though American students aren't scoring first places any more. A survey by the Princeton Testing Service shows that American students rank highest amongst industrialized democracies for amount of time spent watching videos in class. And William Moloney, chairman of the Washington, D.C. based Education Leaders Council -- a coalition of reform minded political and educational leaders -- writes that American students feel better about their math skills that any other country in the free world, while Korean students (who feel worst about their math skills) outscore everyone else in math.

The characteristics of self-esteem-obsessed, video-watching schools are manifested in the frustrations of America's higher education system. According to the Evergreen Freedom Foundation in Olympia, more than 40 percent of recent Washington State high school graduates attending community college enrolled in remedial courses to prepare them for college-level work. But a public-school system that transfers responsibility for learning basic knowledge to higher education isn't giving taxpayers and parents a return for their money. More damaging, the failure of elementary schools to prepare students for their future hurts America economically, socially, and intellectually.

Over the past century, public education has devolved from the classical approach of character plus basics (reading, writing, arithmetic, respect, and responsibility), to skills, to psychological-social engineering....

(Excerpt) Read more at iconoclast.ca ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: literacy
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To: valkyrieanne
Finally, there's the pay issue. How much are these suffering servants going to expect in pay?

Catholic schools pay teachers in the area of $25-30k/year, and the students perform well in comparison to government schools. That leaves between $35-40k per classroom for other costs.

Teacher salaries constitute 85-90% of the typical government school budget.

101 posted on 04/22/2004 10:31:51 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
Long, but very interesting. My state (Wisconsin) has deep "progressive" roots & a lot of that is due to the heavy Prussian, German immigration here. The forty-eighters were politically active, especially in the area of the state's schools. One of the forty-eighters is credited with starting the first kindergarten.
102 posted on 04/22/2004 10:35:34 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Aquinasfan
Catholic schools pay teachers in the area of $25-30k/year, and the students perform well in comparison to government schools. That leaves between $35-40k per classroom for other costs.

But why do Catholic school teachers work for $25,000/year- so that they can teach kids whose parents care enough to pay for their education, not riff-raff. Vouchers would allow anyone to go to those schools, where price works to include those students who are not serious. Second of all, every teacher is not going to be willing to work for $25,000 after paying for college and a master's degree.

103 posted on 04/22/2004 10:40:55 AM PDT by LWalk18
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To: Freedom4US
Found this on the website you linked. We've all experienced this or seen it in action:

California School Administrators Coping With Questions:

Five Basic Responses:

"Respond only:...Flat answers prompt more questions, and 'yes' and 'no' answers mean that you are a victim of their questions, playing on their field."

"Respond and insert: Answer and elaborate with information not directly called for...this will establish you as the expert."

"Insert and respond: Preface your answer with reflections or information. Set the stage. This is a great way to break bad news."

"Insert only: If you're not going to answer the question, then you'd better make the content of your alternative good."

"Ignore: Go on as if the question was never asked."

104 posted on 04/22/2004 10:41:32 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Warlord David
So, tell me, how do I home school my two children as a single parent? They are 9 and 7, can't stay home alone, can they? If I stay home to teach them, who pays the bills?
105 posted on 04/22/2004 10:42:43 AM PDT by MrNeutron1962
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To: FITZ
So your answer to the problem is a another, different state imposition? The socialists would love your idea, cuz soon there would be mandatory classes for every parent, not just the parents with children at risk.
106 posted on 04/22/2004 10:43:17 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Aquinasfan
To be a conservative, and a teacher, these days has to be one of the most difficult jobs in the world. I know, I have 4 in my family who are in that situation. The ones who teach in "country" schools don't have it as bad. In an urban setting, it's horrible. I could tell stories you would not believe. Our liberal education system needs a MAJOR OVERHAUL.
107 posted on 04/22/2004 10:45:12 AM PDT by LisaMalia (In Memory of Sgt. James W."Billy" Lunsford..KIA 11-29-69 Binh Dinh S. Vietnam)
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To: valkyrieanne
Because the vast majority of students will still be educated in public schools, especially those with learning disabilities and/or behavioral problems.

Just float the voucher amount until some school is willing to pick them up. This process could be administered by the local school board.

Also, many behavior problems are school-induced. I'd be concerned about any student who wasn't angry or frustrated. I know I was. I still am.

108 posted on 04/22/2004 10:46:10 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: GoLightly
That sounds very close to what I was told is or was the German system. Kids are tracked differently, based on abilities, starting after the 8th grade.

Doesn't this smack of totalitarianism? We're talking about living, breathing human beings here. It gives me the creeps.

109 posted on 04/22/2004 10:48:24 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: LWalk18
But why do Catholic school teachers work for $25,000/year- so that they can teach kids whose parents care enough to pay for their education, not riff-raff.

According to New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, last year’s rise in the city’s reading scores was a result, at least in part, of competition between public and private schools. Last year, the School Choice Scholarships Foundation, a private voucher program, allowed Giuliani to accept Roman Catholic Cardinal John O’Connor’s 1996 offer to educate some of the students from the city’s worst public schools. (See “New Private Voucher Program to Serve 1,000 NY City Children,” School Reform News, March 1997.)

“I think the public school system is being challenged to do better,” Giuliani told the New York Times. “That is exactly what we should do with it, not accept it the way it is.”

Competition Spurs Public School Improvements

Actually, Cardinal O'Connor offered to take the worst-performing 5% of students in government schools:

New York City's John Cardinal O'Connor offered to enroll 5 percent of the city's most difficult to educate students in parochial schools; Mayor Rudolph Giuliani accepted the offer, originally floating the prospect of using vouchers to fund the transfers. (The money must now come from private sources.) New York's effort would be far from unique: Nationwide, more than 100,000 "difficult to educate" students--young people with physical handicaps, learning disabilities, emotional troubles, or involvement with the juvenile-justice system--are already enrolled in private secular and religious schools at taxpayer expense.

Schools of Thought
Reason Magazine (1997)

The teacher unions and NY school administration fought the proposal tooth and nail. Warm bodies represent money and power. Period.

"When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children."

Albert Shanker, former president
American Federation of Teachers (1985)


110 posted on 04/22/2004 11:03:35 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: LisaMalia
I could tell stories you would not believe.

I used to be active in the ed reform movement, and know many today who are, so I can use all the anecdotes I can get. You can pass them along privately if you like, but folks here might like to hear them too.

111 posted on 04/22/2004 11:07:23 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: BurkesLaw
none here either
112 posted on 04/22/2004 11:08:35 AM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org)
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To: latina4dubya
I know a *ton* of people with similar stories. The majority of people I know who own & are running sucessful small businesses have at the most, a high school education.
113 posted on 04/22/2004 11:47:00 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Aquinasfan
Socialism is alway ugly like that, when you bring it all down to the personal level.
114 posted on 04/22/2004 11:52:46 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: MrNeutron1962
Find a tutor who will teach and watch the kids, instead of a baby sitter. Or a protestant christian church that can help. That offer programs for kids.

Teach them when you come home, yourself, for a couple hours, on MOST days, is also an option to those who think it important. This allows you to instill your value system, replacing the rot that being taugh now. It allows for you to bond with the kids to a degree. And increase their learning curb and focus on the important thing in school. You have a computer use it. Im sure their are programs to teach, on various subjects. For k-12 and college. Ask around. Two hours, 2 or 3 evening a week could make a big differents.

But if possibe fine away, if it important to you. I realize there more than one solution to a problem. Home schooling is a good one, but not possible for everyone.

Fixing the public school problem is not possible, because of the brain wash dumbies that rule and run the system are afraid of change and of loosing control and power to warp our childrens brains with their rot. If thing continue as they are, the public school system will fall apart in a few years.
115 posted on 04/22/2004 2:13:21 PM PDT by Warlord David
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To: MrNeutron1962
Also check this out. Your kids are alittle young. But they will have something to shoot for. May be there something like it where you live. Your kids could do most or all the class on line when they get to that high school age.

http://www.spcollege.edu/ac/dc/#DC Click on duel.
116 posted on 04/22/2004 2:32:14 PM PDT by Warlord David
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To: GoLightly
We already have the socialist Head Start and free preschool for welfare kids --- but they do no good at all because the moms don't know how to teach their kids or interact with them in a way that promotes education and learning. If we've got to have these freebie programs at least let something get accomplished. Better than just having a free babysitting service while mom goes home to watch television all day.
117 posted on 04/22/2004 4:01:01 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Aquinasfan
My sister-in-law (wife of my brother, who is a Presbyterian minister) teaches in a Catholic school and she thoroughly enjoys it. She can actually teach a student body who is receptive, and all she has to do if she finds the curriculum isn't working with her students is to walk down to the principal's office and suggest a change. If she has a "discipline" problem in class (a kid who didn't do his homework, or someone who has a chat with another student during class)all she does is call home and the problem is fixed immediately.

She worked in the Baltimore County public school system and over a period of time realized that the system was in trouble -- and it wasn't the kids who were the problem, but the administration. She now makes one-third less teaching in a Catholic school but is a lot happier. I don't know if she would be happy as far as salary is concerned doing this if she was single, however.

Parents (and they aren't necessarily Catholic) are breaking down the doors to get their children into this particular school because the schools sends the majority of its 8th graders to the best prep schools in the state.
118 posted on 04/22/2004 4:31:47 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: Warlord David
"Teach them when you come home, yourself, for a couple hours, on MOST days, is also an option to those who think it important. This allows you to instill your value system, replacing the rot that being taught now. It allows for you to bond with the kids to a degree."

I already spend 1 to 2 hours a night tutoring them after school each night, but I guess I just consider that part of being a parent. My idea of homeschooling is that they are out of the public and private schools entirely. I'm not 100% on board with what is being taught in several of the local 'Christian Academies" either. I don't have the kind of money it would take to hire a tutor for 8 or 9 hours. So I am for the moment trapped, however; once they reach Junior High, I hope to be able to pull them out of that cesspool called public Middle School.

119 posted on 04/23/2004 5:13:22 AM PDT by MrNeutron1962
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To: FITZ
I recognize the problem, but disagree with the cure you propose. It would tend to empower the educrats, rather than doing anything to fix the problem.
120 posted on 04/23/2004 9:23:54 AM PDT by GoLightly
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