Perhaps a photo of the two leaving the office after a difficult day's work would clarify the matter for you:
Posted on 04/19/2004 1:23:06 PM PDT by RippleFire
WASHINGTON - A Secret Service document written shortly after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing described security video footage of the attack and witness testimony that suggested Timothy McVeigh (news - web sites) may have had accomplices at the scene.
"Security video tapes from the area show the truck detonation 3 minutes and 6 seconds after the suspects exited the truck," the Secret Service reported six days after the attack on a log of agents' activities and evidence in the Oklahoma investigation.
The government has insisted McVeigh drove the truck himself and that it never had any video of the bombing or the scene of the Alfred P. Murrah building in the minutes before the April 19, 1995, explosion.
Several investigators and prosecutors who worked the case told The Associated Press they had never seen video footage like that described in the Secret Service log.
The document, if accurate, is either significant evidence kept secret for nine years or a misconstrued recounting of investigative leads that were often passed by word of mouth during the hectic early days of the case, they said.
"I did not see it," said Danny Defenbaugh, the retired FBI (news - web sites) agent who ran the Oklahoma City probe. "If it shows what it says, then it would be significant."
Secret Service spokesman Charles Bopp declined to discuss the video footage reference, saying it would be addressed by witnesses later this week at the capital murder trial of McVeigh co-defendant Terry Nichols. "It is anticipated Secret Service employees will testify in court concerning these matters," he said.
Other documents obtained by AP show the Secret Service in late 1995 gave prosecutors several computer disks of enhanced digital photographs of the Murrah building, intelligence files on several subjects in the investigation and a file detailing an internal affairs inquiry concerning an agent who reconstructed key phone evidence against McVeigh.
"These abstract sheets are sensitive documents which we have protected from disclosure in the past," said a Secret Service letter that recounted discussions in late 1995 with federal prosecutors on what evidence would be turned over to defense lawyers.
Lawyers for Nichols say they have never been given the security video, photo disks or internal investigative file referenced in the documents.
The trial judge has threatened to dismiss the death penalty case if evidence was withheld. McVeigh was executed in 2001 on a separate federal conviction. Nichols was sentenced to life in prison on federal charges before being tried by the state this year.
The government has maintained for years that McVeigh parked the Ryder rental truck carrying a massive fertilizer bomb outside the Murrah building and left alone in a getaway car he parked around the corner. The bombing killed more than 160 people.
The only video prosecutors introduced at trial showed the Ryder truck without any visible passengers as it passed a security camera inside a high-rise apartment building a block away from the Murrah building.
But the Secret Service log reported on April 24 and April 25, 1995, that there was security footage showing the Ryder truck pulling up to the Murrah building. The log does not say where such video came from or who possessed it.
A log entry on April 25 states that the security footage allowed agents to determine the time that elapsed between suspects leaving the truck and the explosion.
An entry a day earlier on the same log reported that the security video was consistent with a witness' account that he saw McVeigh's getaway car in the lead before a woman guided the truck to its final parking spot in front of the Murrah building.
"A witness to the explosion named Grossman claimed to have seen a pale yellow Mercury car with a Ryder truck behind it pulling up to the federal building," the log said. The witness "further claimed to have seen a woman on the corner waving to the truck."
A Secret Service agent named McNally "noted that this fact is significant due to the fact that the security video shows the Ryder truck pulling up to the Federal Building and then pausing (7 to 10 seconds) before resuming into the slot in front of the building," the log said. "It is speculated that the woman was signaling the truck when a slot became available."
Defenbaugh said the FBI had talked to several witnesses suggesting two people had left the truck, but prosecutors never introduced the scenario at trial because it couldn't be corroborated. That's why a new security video would be significant, he said.
"It would have taken the investigation in a very specific direction," Defenbaugh said. "Rather than having to go down an eight-lane highway during rush hour, we would have gone down a faster path with just two or four lanes."
Defenbaugh said the FBI kept a log similar to the Secret Service document inside the Oklahoma City investigation command center that might help solve the mystery of the video. Justice officials declined to discuss documents, citing the ongoing Nichols' trial.
In addition to the witness mentioned in the Secret Service document, a woman working in Murrah's Social Security (news - web sites) office who was rescued from the rubble and a driver outside the building both reported to the FBI seeing two men leave the truck, according to government documents.
The Secret Service (news - web sites) log contained other information about the case — including that McVeigh made 30 calls to an Illinois gun dealer in the months before the attacks to seek dynamite and that the gun dealer subsequently failed a lie detector test. The Secret Service lost six employees in McVeigh's bombing, the single largest loss in agency history.
Nichols' attorneys last week asked the judge to dismiss the case on grounds the government withheld evidence, including the security video footage.
New documents obtained by AP show the Secret Service provided prosecutors other evidence that may not have been provided to defense lawyers, including a file showing the Secret Service agent who reconstructed crucial phone evidence against McVeigh was subjected to an internal affairs investigation and eventually cleared for her conduct in the case.
FBI officials say that file details allegations the agent wrongly collected grand jury-subpoenaed phone information about McVeigh's calls without FBI knowledge, and kept it for weeks while she produced analysis that helped the investigation.
The internal investigation caused complications for prosecutors. They decided it tainted the agent as a witness and they chose instead to hire an outside expert to re-do the phone analysis for trial, officials said.
Bopp said the Secret Service did nothing wrong.
"The Secret Service worked cooperatively with the FBI and other federal state and local law enforcement throughout the investigation," Bopp said. "The expertise of the Secret Service on electronic crimes and telecommunications provided unique and timely information to the ongoing investigation."
On the Net:
The FBI: http://www.fbi.gov
The documents obtained by The Associated Press can be viewed at http://wid.ap.org/documents/okc/okcdoc2.pdf
Perhaps a photo of the two leaving the office after a difficult day's work would clarify the matter for you:
Perhaps a photo of the two leaving the office after a difficult day's work would clarify the matter for you:
Do you mind if I just concur with you postings?
(BTW - I usually like to speak for myself, but when it has been better...)
If you don't mind, then:
Hey everybody - what he (archy) said.
I think this is why the 101st was so active in Afganistan.
The problem there is where the detonator circuitry in the Arrow Air *crash* came from, and what happened on February 8, 1986 to the LAPD bomb squad technician who blew the whistle on it.
. . . . . Arliegh McCree . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ron Ball
Arleigh McCree and Ronald Ball, the bomb-squad officers killed Sunday were two of the most experienced and highly respected explosive technicians in the LAPD. McCree, 46, the bomb-squad chief, was in charge of the multi-agency bomb detail assembled for the 1984 Olympics. He had helped investigate the 1983 bomb blast at the Marine Barracks in Beirut and had testified on terrorism before Congress. His international reputation was such that Libyan leader Moammar Khaddafy once offered him a job training terrorists. It was one job he turned down.
Ball, 43, a 17-year-police veteran, also was considered an expert on explosives and terrorism and had lectured nationally on the subjects. McCree, a 21-year- police veteran and Ball were killed Saturday after the bomb they tried to defuse in a N. Hollywood garage exploded in their hands. The deaths shocked a police force, it had never had a bomb-squad officer killed before, and nearly brought Chief F. Daryl Gates to tears. "Arleighs been a friend of mine for years," said Gates, his voice trembling. "I can't ever remember having two of our bomb technicians killed before. There haven't been any in my 36 years at the department."
McCree had a reputation of being extremely cool and scientific under pressure. Fellow officers said he was the last man they expected to be killed in an explosion. "I used to call him "Mother McCree". It always left us awestruck just how cool he seemed to be. He always knew what he was doing, and he never let his guard down. ...
Editor's note: Recently discovered evidence indicates that there is more to Sgt. McCree's untimely death than was first supposed. In Mid January 1986, Sgt. McCree met with Charles M. Byers, the President of Accuracy Systems in Phoenix, AZ. During the course of this meeting, Sgt. McCree noticed one of Accuracy's Special Ordinance Devices in their Product Museum. Apparently this device was what Sgt. McCree had just determined was used to blow up the Arrow Air DC 8 at Gander, Newfoundland on Dec. 12, 1985, with the resulting deaths of 256 American citizens and soldiers. Upon returning home, Sgt. McCree made a report of his findings and sent it home to Washington. Unfortunately, the wrong persons became aware of this report, and to protect themselves, In a resulting trial, evidence was suppressed to insure the conviction of the homeowner where the bomb was found, in order to protect the perpetrators.
The PAN AM 103 Electronic Timer
These 3 photographs are of an identical model of the electronic timer used to detonate the bomb that blew up PAN AM 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland on Dec. 21, 1988. A one inch square partial section of this timer was found in the PAN AM 103 wreckage. It is adjustable from 0 to 99 minutes or 0 to 99 hours with the flip of a switch. It is a high quality, professionally assembled timer whose design includes both circuit (hook-up/connection) and output (function/activation) test lights. I know where it was manufactured in Florida --- again exclusively for the CIA!!
Charles Byers 602-705-9769
In December of 1988 terrorists also used a bomb to destroy Pam Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. Three of the 259 passengers who died were U.S. federal law enforcement officers. Daniel E. O'Connor and Ronald A. Lariviere were special agents with the U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service. Michael S. Bernstein was the Assistant Deputy Director of the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Special Investigations.
I think I remember reading about the YMCA security camera video way back when.
Well, they falsely told her she could be charged with treason, even though we weren't at war at the time. More FBI lies.
22 Q. If I could direct your attention, Ms. McVeigh, to parts of
23 that document. Page 57 is what it references in the lower
24 right-hand corner. Do you see that? Principals?
25 A. Yes.
7092 Jennifer McVeigh - Cross
1 Q. Is that one of the statutes that they showed you?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And does it have anything handwritten after: "Whoever
4 commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets,
5 counsels, commands, induces or procures is punishable as a
6 principal"?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What did they write in there?
9 A. I.e., death.
10 Q. Is that something you wrote or the agents wrote?
11 A. The agents wrote it.
12 Q. If I could direct your attention to the next page, section
13 3, clause 1. Treason. Is that one of the statutes that they
14 called to your attention?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did they tell you you could be charged with treason?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did they mention to you that you could only be charged with
19 treason during time of war?
20 A. No.
21 Q. What did they write after the statute?
22 A. "Penalty equals death," underlined.
23 Q. Does -- the message that they conveyed to you was that you
24 could receive the death penalty?
25 A. Yes. In fact, that was on the large posters which were
7093 Jennifer McVeigh - Cross
1 much larger than the pictures.
The truth is actually a good deal more ironic: If the FBI agents were a part of a conspiracy to deprive Tim McVeigh of his Civil Rights to a fair trial, they are the ones facing a death penalty:
United States Code; Title 18, U.S. Criminal Code
Section 241. - Conspiracy against rightsbr>
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; orIf two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured -
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
No wonder the FBI wants to keep the lid on the OKC bombing and their frameup/railroad job of Tim McVeigh....it's not impossible that FBI agents could be convicted and get the needle in the Terre Haute federal death chamber, just as Boston FBI agents involved in the Whitey Bulger's Boston mob are now doing federal time for what will probably be the rest of their lives.
I can pick it out on the banjo pretty fair, along with Rocky Raccoon... How long's your hair...?
Hmmm, Buddy Holley and the Crickets...the Beatles....How does The Madagascar Hissing Cockroachs sound...? [Up in Neon, even!?!?]
Wait until you hear the version of Taxman that LS does.
How so?
We had one record, "Didn't Want to Have to Say Goodbye to You," which was a limited release, but nevertheless got reviewed (well) by Cashbox, Record World, and Billboard. That was my 15 minutes of fame. Actually, the only two songs I ever sang lead on were by "Bad Company." One was "Movin' on."
Nope. We weren't at war, complicating a treason charge, even if it's not an entirely invalid avenue to pursue. But conspiracy to commit treason might well be proven, as could civil rights violations that resulted in the deaths of American citizens. And there's no statute of limitations on that offense, charges of which have been prosecuted and sentence carried out after the fact 30 years after the offense was committed, and more.
Nope. We weren't at war, complicating a treason charge, even if it's not an entirely invalid avenue to pursue. But conspiracy to commit treason might well be proven, as could civil rights violations that resulted in the deaths of American citizens. And there's no statute of limitations on that offense, charges of which have been prosecuted and sentence carried out after the fact 30 years after the offense was committed, and more.
I've never heard of the white vans, what's this about?
Hey, Clinton needed the cover up to blame it on right wing radio and armed citizens.
C'mon. Get with the program, folks. "It's the legacy, stupid."
Hillary.
We had one record, "Didn't Want to Have to Say Goodbye to You," which was a limited release, but nevertheless got reviewed (well) by Cashbox, Record World, and Billboard. That was my 15 minutes of fame. Actually, the only two songs I ever sang lead on were by "Bad Company." One was "Movin' on."
We won't tell anyone. So far as we're concerned, you've always been a Bea-, er Madagascar Hissing Cockroach since the British Infestation. Oops, I meant invasion! I try real hard to work behind female vocalists, but will admit to have lately done leads on a variety from C.W. McCall's Wolf Creek Pass to Tatu's Nas Ne Degoniat, which segues nicely into Back in the U.S.S.R. For the last couple of years I've been playing on and off with the Memphis band Rockatansky, whose claim to infamy is that the band has never had exactly the same lineup on any two gigs. Sitins by those from other bands, some pretty well-known, are not uncommon, usually under a cheesy alias.
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