Will you wake up to Islamic prayer call?

worldnetdaily.com ^ | April 15, 2004 | worldnetdaily.com

[ovrtaxt]

A holy war of sorts is heating up in a Detroit suburb, where members of the local Muslim community want loudspeakers on mosques to announce the Islamic call to prayer five times each day.

But the idea is running into opposition from other residents of Hamtramck, Mich., many of whom are Christian, who think the prayer calls as early as 6 a.m. and as late as 10 p.m. would be disruptive.

"When you call to prayer, you are proselytizing, and as a citizen of the United States I don't want to hear it," Bob Golen, 68, told the Detroit Free Press.

"It is not my God. My God is Jesus Christ," Caroline Zarski, 81, said. "I don't want this noise invading my home at 10 p.m."

The Al-Islah Islamic Center asked the city three months ago to alter its noise ordinance to allow the calls to prayer. In February, the council reportedly supported the change but sought a public hearing before making any change.

"We don't want to make it a big deal," said businessman Abdul Algazali, according to the Free Press. "It's a low-pitched voice. It's not going to wake up anybody."

City Council President Karen Majewski compared the call to prayer to bells ringing on Christian churches, though other residents were said to disagree at Tuesday's meeting.

Majewski says the loudspeaker measure is likely to pass at next week's meeting, and would subsequently take effect in late May.

"Petitions have circulated among mainly white and Christian members of the community for weeks asking the council not to amend the ordinance," said Councilman Scott Klein. "Both sides have issued threats of federal lawsuits based on the constitutionality of the ban or the removal of the ban."

There are five mosques in Hamtramck, and three others just over the border in Detroit.

On its website, the city says it provides "A Touch of THE WORLD In America," touting itself as "the home of the most varied ethnic mix of people and customs from around the world."

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[auboy]

I wouldn't want to hear that wailing either, but be ready for the ACLU to call for a halt to bells pealing as it would offend atheists.

With the courts interpretation of "freedom of religion" meaning "freedom from religion", I would not be surprised.

[Flyer]

It's not going to wake up anybody

Then why bother with it? If it's just for ceremony then do it inside.

[johnb838]

I was thinking the bells was a valid argument but the author has a good point. A bell is a bell. A bum in a dirty nightshirt yelling over a loudspeaker at 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. is proseletyzing.

[cardinal4]

This is shot #1 from within. And I'm not being over the top either.

No you are not. They are using our own laws against us..

[ovrtaxt]

The radio idea makes sense. But why not take it a step further and impalnt a chip in the foreheads of Muslim zealots, which picks up the signal? When the call goes out, a little red LED on the chip starts to flash, and everyone will know that it's time for prayer.

Of course, a GPS transponder would also be a nice accessory on the chip, and maybe a tiny bit of C4 if the mullah decided that a remotely detonated suicide bomb is needed...(Of course the government would have access to the source code)

Isn't technology fun?

[AppyPappy]

Plus you aren't supposed to ring bells that early or that late.

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

"When you call to prayer, you are proselytizing, and as a citizen of the United States I don't want to hear it," Bob Golen, 68, told the Detroit Free Press.
>>>

Then move. SO long as they don't violate the noise ordinance they have the right to call to prayer. Just as the church has the right to ring bells. On the flip side, the law they use against Muslims today will be used against Catholics tomorrow.

Speech is free only so long as it is tolerated, no matter how unpopular it is. Otherwise the First Amendment is a lie.

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

Plus you aren't supposed to ring bells that early or that late.>>

Why not? Then allow bell ringing that early or that late too.

[FITZ]

Only idiots don't believe Mohammedans in the US want to impose Islamic Law on everyone else.

In fact their religion only allows them to live among the "infidels" if they are in the process of taking over the country of those infidels. Otherwise they must choose to live in one of the Islamic paradises.

[ovrtaxt]

Actually someone suggested a pig roast on the sidewalk. With strippers.

No strippers, I don't really think it bugs 'em that much, judging by the amount of porn on the mag rack at the local Haji-mart.

But I am tempted to go gnaw on a big slab of ribs in front of the local mosque. Do they go to hell if they just breathe the smoke?

[livius]

There's a difference between a bell and a verbal summons - the latter would be like a Catholic church broadcasting the Angelus at certain times of the day, and I'm sure this would not be permitted.

BTW, bells are not allowed in many places already, for "noise" reasons. My church in SF had to stop ringing them (at 10:00 am!) when the yuppies who had moved into the neighborhood complained that it was ruining their beauty sleep.

[LadyDoc]

no, because if you silence these voices, you will allow the ACLU to stop Christian church bells, including bells that play hymns.

I didn't realize why the bells were important until I went to Africa. Our mass was 8 am so at 7 am they rang to alert people, and then rang again at the start of Mass. People didn't have clocks, and this was to alert them so they could get there on time.

Traditionally, they also ring at daybreak/6am, noon, and dusk/5pm for "the angeles" (a prayer about Christ's incarnation that starts "the angel of the lord declared unto mary)---there is a famous French painting called the Angeles, showing two people in a wheat field praying.

Our problem is that Christians don't stop to pray five times a day....in public.

[stainlessbanner]

They are using our own laws against us.

mega-bump

[PokeyJoe]

yeah, just like those weather alert radios!

[AppyPappy]

Because it is a disturbance. There is no rational reason for such. They used to ring bells at that hour so people could tell time. That cat squalling is unecessary at that time of the day and night.

[ClearCase_guy]

Speech is free only so long as it is tolerated, no matter how unpopular it is. Otherwise the First Amendment is a lie.

Of course that is true. But then, why can't a public school teacher say a prayer in class? It's free exercise of her religion, right? And a southern judge with a budget for sculture -- why can't he commission a statue of the Ten Commandents?

Perhaps you support all these things (I do) -- but be aware that elements in our society are working hard to ensure that Christians do not have the right to exercise their religious freedom. But Muslims should have that right. It's a pretty despicable double standard.

[dracos]

This is incredible. Tell them to keep their religion inside their homes and mosques. Why do we need to be subjected to this offensive practice? Is there anyone who does not agree that the immigration policies have gone over the edge? We are destroying the fabric of America, be it in Southern States where English has become the second language, Kalifornia and the liberal Eastern States where gay marriage is being brewed up, and now this influx of Islam. If we must bring in more, can't we at least bring in more Christians?

[FITZ]

If they get by with this, then Christians and/or Jews should set up bigger speakers and drown them out with preaching or music or anything.

[auboy]

A bum in a dirty nightshirt yelling over a loudspeaker at 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. is proseletyzing

And not something that would go over really well in my neighborhood.

Maybe they need to supply a Timex with each nightshirt and prayer rug. Gotta know when to pray for the death of the infidels.

[bondjamesbond]

I used to live a block and a half from a five-story minaret on the fifth floor of an apartment building. My window faced the minaret, and I got to hear the call every day, five times a day.

There is a huge difference between a human voice and a tolling bell. The bell is easily ignored. A human voice at high decibles is not. The bell/loudspeaker analogy misses this crucial distinction.

Also, in terms of content, a bell is just a bell. Yes they are on churches and churches use them for a specific purpose. But all they say is "BONG!". The Islamic call to prayer is a verbal statement, saying a certain thing ("Yo! Dude! Get thee to the Mosque!", I would imagine). So the bell/loudspeaker analogy misses another crucial distiction.