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Scientific integrity and the gospel of Christ
WorldNetDaily ^ | 4/10/04 | Kelly Hollowell

Posted on 04/10/2004 10:39:47 AM PDT by Tribune7

This Easter weekend, I answer one of the more disparaging questions I'm asked by secularists. That is: "How can a true scientist believe in the gospel message of Christ?" The answer begins with a proper definition of science.

Science is the study of nature through empirical evidence. A truly scientific theory, by definition, must be testable by repeatable observations or experiments. Yet there are many observations in nature that cannot be scientifically tested. Take the creation of the natural world.

As explained by the big-bang theory, all the matter and energy of the universe was compressed into a cosmic egg that inexplicably exploded. But nobody knows where the cosmic egg came from, or how it arrived. Neither has a single important prediction of this theory been confirmed. Even worse, it contradicts multiple principles, including the first and second laws of thermodynamics and the law of conservation of mass.

That means the big-bang theory is largely a faith-based idea.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: easter; science
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1 posted on 04/10/2004 10:39:47 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: tallhappy; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
Happy Easter
2 posted on 04/10/2004 10:40:15 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Arlen Specter supports the International Crime Court having jurisdiction over US soldiers)
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To: longshadow; VadeRetro; Junior; RadioAstronomer
Neither has a single important prediction of this theory been confirmed.

A very flawed article. For example: The Four Pillars of the Standard Cosmology. That website says (with supporting information that is widely available elsewhere):

The four key observational successes of the standard Hot Big Bang model are the following:
# Expansion of the Universe
# Origin of the cosmic background radiation
# Nucleosynthesis of the light elements
# Formation of galaxies and large-scale structure
The Big Bang model makes accurate and scientifically testable hypotheses in each of these areas and the remarkable agreement with the observational data gives us considerable confidence in the model.

3 posted on 04/10/2004 11:25:09 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Yes, that IS a gun in my pocket; and no, I'm NOT happy to see you.)
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To: Tribune7
Very good read.
4 posted on 04/10/2004 11:27:59 AM PDT by WVNan (Kill the Freepathons- BECOME A MONTHLY DONOR)
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To: Tribune7
Good points. Many scientists don't seem to have too much trouble accepting global warming as fact when the case for it is fairly weak.
5 posted on 04/10/2004 11:35:55 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: PatrickHenry
A very flawed article.

Why can't you approach this discussion in a reasoned manner? Why can't you say you disagree with the premises that the article was written on? There is mounting evidence, among secular scientists, that Big Bang cosmogony may not be correct. But your perjorative response cuts off discussion.

The biggest problem in the debate over origins is the unwillingness of the debaters to look at both sides of the argument, and instead, to resort to ad hominem or disparaging insults.

The second biggest problem is the failure to recognize that the linch pins of the argument are in the presuppositions the debaters bring to the argument. Evolutionists and materialist presuppose a material universe with no possible explanations outside their realm of thinking. Creationists presuppose that there is both matter and non-matter in the universe that can provide a plausible explanation for the origin of the universe (cosmogony) and the origin of life (biogenesis). To dismiss one side or the other out of hand extinguishes the debate, at the worst, or at least, reduces the debate to hurling one "expert" against another.

6 posted on 04/10/2004 11:40:10 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: PatrickHenry
This Easter weekend, I answer one of the more disparaging questions I'm asked by secularists. That is: "How can a true scientist believe in the gospel message of Christ?" The answer begins with a proper definition of science.

This whole article is based upon a false premise. The gospel message of Christ ("love your neighbor," and Christ died for our sins) has absolutely nothing to do with science, and science has nothing to do with it. The two are not somehow mutually exclusive and one can hold confidence in science and a firm belief in the message of Christ without cognitive dissonance. The author of this piece has some sort of ideaological axe to grind.

7 posted on 04/10/2004 11:43:33 AM PDT by Junior (Remember, you are unique, just like everyone else.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Upon a nothingness this doth come? If I am up with the latest astronomy science, then the big bang happened only once and the universe is ever-expanding.

Is it an act of will of did some cosmic alarm clock just spontaneously spring the Bang Bang into action?

8 posted on 04/10/2004 11:47:17 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator (I'll go through the valley...if you want me to.)
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To: Tribune7
I think the best scientists are those who believe in Jesus Christ and rely on a higher Power, i.e. God, to guide them in their work.
9 posted on 04/10/2004 11:50:53 AM PDT by k2blader (Some folks should worry less about how conservatives vote and more about how to advance conservatism)
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To: Tribune7
Bump for a smart, beautiful, Christian woman with a PhD.


10 posted on 04/10/2004 11:57:09 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Tribune7
In a previous thread, where secular scientists "found the link" between fish and land animals, I was mocked and patronized by a few FReepers. A couple people eluded that I couldn't believe in both the Bible and science! I was shocked to find out I had been wrong all my life (sarcasm, last sentence).
11 posted on 04/10/2004 12:00:19 PM PDT by vpintheak (Our Liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain!)
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To: VadeRetro
One other important point – no blood passes from the mother to the child during development. Rather, the child's circulatory system is formed and works independently of the mother.

Good grief! The author has virtually no understanding of biology. Her "doctorate" comes from Pat Robertson's Regent University. Robertson is a fine fellow, but I have doubts about the scientific integrity of that institution.

12 posted on 04/10/2004 12:00:31 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Yes, that IS a gun in my pocket; and no, I'm NOT happy to see you.)
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To: Junior
This whole article is based upon a false premise

The woman who wrote this article is a scientist. She is saying she is asked by secularists "How can a true scientist believe in the gospel message of Christ?" Her article is her answer.

The gospel message of Christ ("love your neighbor," and Christ died for our sins) has absolutely nothing to do with science,

Since you belive in sin and the necessity for reconciliation you obviously believe in God. Presumably, you believe in the Resurrection -- an obvious violation of the laws of nature. Now, how do you answer those who sneer that this belief is irrational and superstitous?

13 posted on 04/10/2004 12:05:25 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Arlen Specter supports the International Crime Court having jurisdiction over US soldiers)
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To: Tribune7
The article makes some good points, in that it takes a assumptions to believe any evidence of proposed accounts to what may have happened in the past, which is the very definition of faith, could be religion or scientific theory.

An assumption made by science for example is that the laws of on physics have not changed from the beginning such as the second law of thermodynamics.

The author assumes that second law of thermodynamics, violated the big bang evidence, not sure how but it is interesting however in context. The second law would allow only lower localized energy states as time increased after the big bang if the universe were a closed system (no other energy inputs to the universe after the bang). Ordered and localized energy and ordered states of matter such as life are hard to explain from and the second law for a closed universe. Yet, the big bang and the evolution of humans would seem to be more consistent with the second law as an open system e.g. some external source of energy input to the universe after the big bang, e.g. GOD?

Good topic for Easter ...
14 posted on 04/10/2004 12:05:31 PM PDT by seastay
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To: Tribune7
nobody knows where the cosmic egg came from

It's how the math works out. Mathematicians work with infinite series that sum to a finite value and other series that don't. The Big Bang is one end of an interval, there is no 'before,' although there can be a definite instant of the Big Bang that we can only calculate but never visit with our powerful space telescopes.

15 posted on 04/10/2004 12:10:28 PM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: Tribune7
HAPPY EASTER

Who cares what these highly educated nitwits think?
Mel Gibson's Passion has rightfully so, set the scientists,
our Godless courts and the ACLU on their ears.
The world wide response to Jesus and his creator, have
been absolutely phenomenal.
16 posted on 04/10/2004 12:10:30 PM PDT by Smartass (God Bless America and Our Troops - Bush & Cheney in 2004)
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To: PatrickHenry
The author has virtually no understanding of biology. Her "doctorate" comes from Pat Robertson's Regent University.

Her Ph.D. in Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology comes from University of Miami.

Her J.D. comes from from Regent. She is admitted to the Virginia Bar & is also licensed to practice before U.S. Patent and Trademark Office

17 posted on 04/10/2004 12:13:17 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Arlen Specter supports the International Crime Court having jurisdiction over US soldiers)
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To: PatrickHenry; VadeRetro
The author has virtually no understanding of biology

It is my understanding that, while nutrients and other components pass from the mother's blood to the child's, and waste products pass from the child's blood to the mother's, their actual blood does not intermingle.

PS: Glad to see you two on this thread. Perhaps you'll answer some of the questions I posed (and you dismissed) on the evo threads. Maybe Dementsio would like to participate, as well?

18 posted on 04/10/2004 12:30:16 PM PDT by Ignatz (Cheerfully helping people be more like me since 1960....)
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To: Tribune7
Now, how do you answer those who sneer that this belief is irrational and superstitous?

To each his own.

19 posted on 04/10/2004 12:31:35 PM PDT by Junior (Remember, you are unique, just like everyone else.)
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To: Ignatz
It is my understanding that, while nutrients and other components pass from the mother's blood to the child's, and waste products pass from the child's blood to the mother's, their actual blood does not intermingle.

Not exactly. If there were an artery directly connecting them, it would rupture at birth and the result would be catastrophic. Instead, the fetus is connected by the umbilical cord to the uterine walls at the placenta, where there is considerable interchange of material, including nutrients, antibodies, oxygen, waste, etc. The mother's blood and the blood of the fetus are in contact, however, and these exhanges occur through capillaries in the placenta. The article in question seems to indicate a total separation of the circulatory system of the fetus, in order to support the author's theological point that: "That means the blood of Mary that would have been marred by sin did not mix with the perfect blood of Christ shed on the cross". That may be good theology, but it is very far from the biological situation. Were there no circulatory connection, the fetus would starve, but long before that it would die of asphyxiation.

20 posted on 04/10/2004 1:41:48 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Yes, that IS a gun in my pocket; and no, I'm NOT happy to see you.)
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