More copyright complaints

Free Republic | April 8, 2004 | Jim Robinson

[Chad Fairbanks]

If I ever come into some money, I'm going ot underwrite Jim's next foray into the courts regarding of free speech and fair use for an informed populace.

Ditto - as soon as my songwriting career takes off, I'll use the royalties I collect from bars that feature bands covering my songs to help pay for that very thing...

[supercat]

It's not like you, or anyone else, is being soaked...

Except for the composers to whom ASCAP and BMI don't pay a dime, even when ASCAP and BMI collect money for the performance of their works.

That's not to say ASCAP/BMI don't pay money out to composers. But the apportionment of money to composers isn't based upon whose work is performed in ASCAP/BMI-licensed venues, but rather upon whose work receives radio airplay. While radio airplay may in some cases be a reasonable proxy for public performance numbers, there are some composers whose work is reasonably popular in live performance but seldom heard on the radio since they haven't coughed up the necessary payola"promotional fees" for that.

And of course, if a composer doesn't belong to ASCAP or BMI, those groups will take money from any venue where that composer's work is performed but he won't see a penny.

[jpsb]

that is 500/year to two copy rigth owners or 1000/year or an extra 80 per band. I have talked to them and the 500/year is the best offer. That covers the bar for 1 band a month with seating for less then 60 people. The problem I have and all the bars in my part of the world have is we are all just barely hanging on.

[AuntB]

This stinks! Okay, I'll be careful. Thanks, Jim.

Sincerely,

One of your herded cats!

[supercat]

Ditto - as soon as my songwriting career takes off, I'll use the royalties I collect from bars that feature bands covering my songs to help pay for that very thing...

Unless you break into radio playlists, your song could be performed every night in bars across the country and ASCAP/BMI wouldn't pay you a dime. Of course, if you do manage to break into radio playlists, you'll collect royalties on behalf of all the composers to didn't, even if nobody who has a choice performs your song anywhere.

[AuntB]

Have you noticed, EVERYTHING is "just a legal shake down lawyer scam."

[jpsb]

yes

[Chad Fairbanks]

The apportioning of royalty payments IS a sore point with me. Which is why I agree with the keeping of playlists, such as they do with radio - those artists who's works are performed are the ones to recieve payment.

And, if you are not a member of BMI or ASCAP (or that other one, SEASAC or whatever) then no one is collecting royalties for you - it becomes your own task if you choose not to join. In all reality there is no reason to NOT join one - Writer Memberships are usually free, I believe (but the real bucks are in publishing)...

[Chad Fairbanks]

The problem I have and all the bars in my part of the world have is we are all just barely hanging on.

That's not the fault of copyright laws, and performance fees.

[Triple Word Score]

:-) Don't excerpt your vanities. That was my point. If you wrote more than you needed, cut before you post!

[Chad Fairbanks]

Sure - as I said, that's a sticking point with me. I'd like to get that changed someday.

[texasbluebell]

...that the source being excerpted or paraphrased can complain that their words were distorted or taken out of context.

Ugh. We'll find a way. Something will just evolve. I'm sure of it. Can't see a way yet, but this won't stop FR.

Well, as others have said, just the salient facts should be excerpted. That will be enough for us to run with it. Just a few quotes from the original.

Honestly, why not? That's plenty, and saves a heck of a lot of bandwidth. This will actually be an advantage in that regard.

[Nita Nupress]

If I try to tell others that e.g. the L.A. Times said something hateful and someone accuses me of taking their words of context, how can I show that I didn't take their words out of context but am not allowed to include the full context in which they appeared?

Are you referring to legal action? I thought it was the plaintiff's job to prove something, not the defendent's.

I'm probably misunderstanding your point here.

[jpsb]

Nope, but like I said the jukebox makes money and the bands don't. I was willing to lose a little on bands to treat my customers to good live music every now and then, but the cost of the copy right is the straw that broke the camels back. And since none of the local bars do bands any more and since I have the best jukebox I am not at a disadvantage.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Your choice :0)

[supercat]

that is 500/year to two copy rigth owners

Actually, you may as well call them extortion firms, since that's what they are. The only reason ASCAP/BMI control any copyrights is that the government has given them a duopoly on that. ASCAP/BMI get to collect money for all the music played in their licensees' establishments, whether or not ASCAP/BMI actually have any legitimate copyright interest in most of the music.

From what I've read, Europe handles the performance copyrights rather better: performers fill out a set list, which indicates whose works were performed. Licensing fees then get allocated to composers based upon how often their works were actually performed. In the U.S., however, licencing fees instead get funneled to whoever has managed to become most popularpay the best bribes to get on the radio.

[Drago]

This all seems a complete contradiction to the (at least my) concept of the internet.

Actually, it is the "World-Wide-WEB"(ie. links) not the World-Wide-Cut-And-Paste".

[swheats]

No worries. The majority get their news and info here anyways.

They can only slow your progress, they can't stop you.

Vigilent, valiant resolve.

[supercat]

And, if you are not a member of BMI or ASCAP (or that other one, SEASAC or whatever) then no one is collecting royalties for you - it becomes your own task if you choose not to join...

Actually, there's a substantial legal impediment to collecting royalties yourself since Congress has decreed that a bar that pays off ASCAP/SESAC has met all its copyright obligations, thus making royalties uncollectable for anyone else.

As for it being stupid not to join, I've not written much music and would be surprised to hear anyone playing any of it; even if some of it did catch on, though, I would see no reason to offer ASCAP/BMI any moral justification for taking money for my work. That isn't to say that ASCAP/BMI wouldn't take their payment anyway, but I'd see no reason to offer them moral justification to do so.

[jpsb]

I did the numbers a while back, 80 bucks for 4 hours of music or 20 bucks an hour. In an hour a band will play 10 of 15 songs so that's $1.50 to $2.00 a song. No freakin way am I going to pay a bunch of lawyer 2 bucks every time a band sings a song in my bar. The jukebox only costs 25 cents a song.