FReep this poll: Did Paul change Jesus' message?

beliefnet ^ | 4-8-04

[Susannah]

This poll asks:

I think the Apostle Paul:

* explained Jesus' message
* changed Jesus' message

[aynrandfreak]

www.atheists-for-jesus.com

I don't endorse this site, but I ran acoss it some time ago. It was the first time I heard the point made that Paul undermined the views of Jesus.

[BipolarBob]

I go for "explained"
Paul preached to the Gentiles which was a completely foreign idea to the Jews. They had no idea salvation would be available to non-Jews.

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[Sans-Culotte]

If you subscribe to the notion that Jesus did not really "claim to be God", but was some feel-good hippy type, then you can go with the idea the Paul changed the Message (whatever it was-"be excellent to one another"?).

If you believe Jesus really did claim to be God, and really did accomplish His salvation work on the cross, then the only conclusion is that Paul explained the message. As a Pharisee who was familiar with the Old Testament Messianic prophecies, and who claimed to have been visited by the resurrected Christ, who better to explain it?

[Sans-Culotte]

One more thing: the idea the "Paul changed the message" is certainly not new. Non-believers have been trumpeting it for a long time. If you really don't believe in Jesus, you almost have to believe that Jesus was a fraud (or "mis-quoted"), and that Paul and the other disciples were con-men.

[Arkinsaw]

If you subscribe to the notion that Jesus did not really "claim to be God", but was some feel-good hippy type, then you can go with the idea the Paul changed the Message (whatever it was-"be excellent to one another"?). If you believe Jesus really did claim to be God, and really did accomplish His salvation work on the cross, then the only conclusion is that Paul explained the message. As a Pharisee who was familiar with the Old Testament Messianic prophecies, and who claimed to have been visited by the resurrected Christ, who better to explain it?

Superb.

[Susannah]

Please Freep the poll on this thread. It questions if St. Paul distorted Jesus' message.

[aynrandfreak]

I agree with you, but somewhere in the last few hundred years, I believe that Christianity changed (for the better), and it isn't a philosophy to prepare for the afterlife anymore, it's more about living a good life in this world. That's why I consider Christians to be allies against the secular mystics of today (lefties & Islamists)

[aynrandfreak]

...'secular' applying to the lefties, not the Islamists, obviously.

[William Martel]

One of the things about Christ that never ceases to amaze me is how just about every group one can imagine tries to explain him away and claim him for themself.

[aynrandfreak]

I love the Golden Rule, and I even think Rand was reinterpreting him when she said, "Judge, and be judged"

[Sans-Culotte]

I believe that Christianity changed (for the better), and it isn't a philosophy to prepare for the afterlife anymore, it's more about living a good life in this world.

Yeah, but basically, the "Teachings of Christ" are not all that special. He basically says to follow The Law, and that if you even imagine doing something bad, you are not really following it anyway. We "old fashoned" Christians believe that the point Jesus made was that none of us can follow the law to the letter (and then some), and that The Law cannot save us. Paul "explains" that The Law does not liberate or save us, but rather points out our failings, as we fail to live up to it, and that only Christ's substitutionary death can provide salvation.

I think that if one views Christianity as a self-help course, it is woefully inadequate, because the law's demands are more than people can live up to. Even if every Christian on earth fails to live in a "Christ-like" way, it does not mean Christianity is a failure, because the object of our worship is greater than we are. We go to church to worship God, and to give Him the glory.

If I really believed that Jesus was merely a human with a philosophy for living, I would regard Him as I would Marx or Rousseau or any other philosopher.

[aynrandfreak]

So when "saints" in the middle agres were doing self-inflicted suffering by drinking laundry water & sleeping on rocks to prove their virtue, were they misinterpreting the teachings of Jesus?

[Sans-Culotte]

Uh, yeah.

[stop_fascism]

Actually, that started with Peter who had a vision that it would be ok to teach the Macedonians.

[wardaddy]

Paul is the darling of most Protestants and Charismatics in particular so Paul catches heat on occasion from those who feel Peter is more of an authority.

I like them all myself and am grateful for their scribe.