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Terri Schiavo Hospitalized With Apparent Puncture Wounds In Arm! Apparent Foul Play!
WFTV-ABC in Orlando
| UNK
Posted on 03/30/2004 4:38:13 AM PST by MindBender26
In 7:25 break, anchor reported "Terri Schiavo was rushed to a Pinellas County emergency room last night after nursing home staff noticed puncture wounds on her arm. The wounds appeared to be caused by a hypodermic needle! Toxicology tests were conducted but the results are not available yet!"
This could open a huge new round in this case. What did tests reveal? Who was last person in room? When was husband there? Was staffer trying the Angle of Death routine?
This will be developing hard all day!
TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: cultofterri; deathculture; homicide; killermike; michaelschiavo; paranoia; recklessspeculation; schiavo; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler; terrisfight; vegetable
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To: MindBender26
will you and the other one tooth wonders sit down, shut up, stay home and stop looking like looniesPublic relations = derision?!? Shame on you.
481
posted on
03/31/2004 2:42:58 AM PST
by
NautiNurse
(Missing Iraqi botulinum toxin? Look at John Kerry's face)
To: MindBender26
Considering your comments I doubt you would do this.
482
posted on
03/31/2004 2:45:14 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: hoosierpearl
There is much that could be said to blow holes in this. The good and bad alike are of God.. what is the point? As a human you must take action to bring about a desired result in the physical world, some believe there is a power in non-action. Of course there are different forces involved but let's not make a mockery of common sense. If no one lifted a finger of protest from different individuals and organizations, etc. if there was no legal representation, etc. Terri would be dead (in her present physical form) right now if Michael had his way. And if he did would it be God's way? something to think about! It might be helpful to study all the beliefs of man, etc. to find an answer to the question of God but of course we are all individuals. I'm not going to stop you from helping Terri because of your conception of what God is, etc. or what beliefs you voice, we all come from different backgrounds.
483
posted on
03/31/2004 2:52:53 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: walford
Here here.
484
posted on
03/31/2004 2:57:01 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: floriduh voter
No doubt you have noticed that there's a major effort to discredit me on this thread. It is unfounded and only proves that I must be doing something right. Major effort is right, but ineffective none the less. You're doing a very good job, and the proof is in the attacks from Terri's enemies. Keep up the good work.
485
posted on
03/31/2004 3:05:14 AM PST
by
BykrBayb
(I'm going to steal my next tagline from someone's post.)
To: txrangerette
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY
2 CIVIL DIVISION
CASE NO. 92-939CI-15
3
4 MICHAEL SCHIAVO, individually )
and as guardian of THERESA )
5 SCHIAVO, an incompetent, )
)
6 Plaintiff, )
)
7 vs. )
)
8 JOEL S. PRAWER, M.D. and )
G. STEPHEN IGEL, M.D., )
9 )
Defendants. )
10 ______________________________/
11
12
DEPOSITION OF: MICHAEL SCHIAVO
13
TAKEN: Pursuant to Notice by
14 Counsel for Defendant
G. Stephen Igel, M.D.
15
DATE AND TIME: July 27, 1992; 9:05 a.m.
16
PLACE: 5999 Central Avenue
17 Suite 103
St. Petersburg, Florida
18
BEFORE: TAMMY J. BERKLER, RPR, CM
19 Notary Public
State of Florida at Large
20
21
22
23 KLEIN, BURY & ASSOCIATES
4350 West Cypress Street
24 Suite 701
Tampa, Florida 33607
25 (813) 876-4722
___
1 APPEARANCES: GLENN M. WOODWORTH, ESQUIRE
-and-
2 HEATHER HARWELL, ESQUIRE
Law Office of Glenn M.
3 Woodworth
5999 Central Avenue
4 Suite 103
St. Petersburg, Florida 33711
5 Attorneys for Plaintiff
6 KENNETH C. DEACON, ESQUIRE
Harris, Barrett, Mann & Dew
7 150 Second Avenue North
Suite 1500
8 St. Petersburg, Florida 33731
Attorney for Defendant
9 G. Stephen Igel, M.D.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
___
p.3 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Thereupon,
2 MICHAEL SCHIAVO,
3 the deponent herein, being first duly sworn, was
4 examined and testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
__________________
6 BY MR. DEACON:
_____________
7 Q Would you state your full name for me,
8 please, sir?
9 A Michael Richard Schiavo.
10 Q And what is your age, Mr. Schiavo?
11 A 29.
12 Q I think we lost your lawyer.
13 A He'll be back.
14 Q What is your address, Mike?
15 A One Boca Ciega Point Boulevard.
16 Q Is that an apartment or a home?
17 A Yeah, it's unit 313; it's 313.
18 Q 313. Does that apartment complex have a
19 name?
20 A No. It's just Boca Ciega Point Boulevard.
21 Q Okay. And what city is that?
22 A St. Pete.
23 Q Where's that located?
24 A In Seminole.
25 Q Okay.
___
p.4 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A Right on Duhme Road there.
2 MR. WOODWORTH: There won't be any more
3 interruptions, I promise.
4 MR. DEACON: I want to make that a matter of
5 record. There won't be any more interruptions.
6 MR. WOODWORTH: There won't be.
7 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Okay. How long have you
8 been there?
9 A Approximately one month.
10 Q Where did you live before that?
11 A On 5th Avenue North, 453 5th Avenue North.
12 Q 453.
13 A 5th Avenue.
14 Q 5th Avenue North. And how long were you
15 there?
16 A Two months.
17 Q Let me back up a little bit. This address
18 you have at One Boca Ciega Point Boulevard, who lives
19 there with you, if anyone?
20 A I moved in there with my parents.
21 Q Your parents?
22 A Uh-huh. They just moved to Florida.
23 Q What are your parents' names?
24 A Claire and Bill.
25 Q Is Claire with an e at the end?
___
p.5 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A Actually it's Clara, C-l-a-r-a.
2 Q R-a?
3 A Or something like that.
4 Q And Bill?
5 A Uh-huh.
6 Q Schiavo?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q Do you pronounce your name Schiavo or --
9 A Schiavo.
10 Q Schiavo. Okay. And anyone else besides your
11 parents live there with you?
12 A No.
13 Q This address, 253 5th Avenue North, is that
14 an apartment also?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And that apartment number?
17 A 453. It was actually in a -- I lived with an
18 elderly man; he had a room.
19 Q And before that were did you live?
20 A 273 Hermosita Drive.
21 Q What?
22 A Hermosita.
23 Q H-e-r-m-a?
24 A M-o-s-i-t-a. H-e-r.
25 Q M-o-s. Okay.
___
p.6 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A I-t-a
2 Q Where's that?
3 A St. Pete Beach.
4 Q How long were you there?
5 A A year.
6 Q Is that a house or a --
7 A It was a house.
8 Q Who lived there with you at that time?
9 A My in-laws.
10 Q Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And before that where did you live?
13 A 2630 East Vina Del Mar Boulevard.
14 Q Apartment or a home?
15 A It's a home.
16 Q And who lived there with you at that time?
17 A Schindlers.
18 Q How long were you there?
19 A I believe a year and a half.
20 Q Before that where did you live?
21 A 12001 4th Street North.
22 Q Apartment or a home?
23 A Apartment.
24 Q Is that where you lived with your wife?
25 A Yes.
___
p.7 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q What was the apartment number?
2 A 2210.
3 Q And how long were you there?
4 A We were there approximately a year.
5 Q Where did you live before that?
6 A I forget the name of the place.
7 Q Was it in St. Pete?
8 A Yeah, it was right down the road from where
9 we lived right then. What's it called? I forget the
10 name of the place.
11 Q Okay. How long were you there?
12 A Approximately eight months.
13 Q How long have you lived in St. Petersburg or
14 in this area, Pinellas County?
15 A Approximately eight months.
16 Q And where did you live before that?
17 A We lived in Isla Del Sol -- oh, you mean
18 before Florida?
19 Q Yeah, before Florida.
20 A Pennsylvania. Philadelphia area.
21 Q Any particular town?
22 A Levittown.
23 Q L-e-v-i-t?
24 A T-t-o-w-n.
25 Q That's a suburb of Philadelphia?
___
p.8 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A Right.
2 Q How long were you in Levittown?
3 A 22 years.
4 Q When were you and Mrs. Schiavo married?
5 A 1981.
6 Q Do you remember the date?
7 A November 10th.
8 Q And where were you married?
9 A Give me a minute. What's the name of that
10 church? Q I don't need the name of the church;
11 the town will do.
12 A Oh, the town? South Hampton.
13 Q Pennsylvania?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q If you could say yes or no, I'd appreciate
16 it.
17 A Yes.
18 Q Because when they take uh-huh's and huh-uh's
19 down, they're difficult to distinguish for me. You
20 lived in Levittown most your life; is that correct?
21 A Correct. Yes.
22 Q Prior to coming to St. Pete?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Where did Mrs. Schiavo live, for the most
25 part?
___
p.9 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A Huntingdon Valley.
2 Q And that's also a suburb of Philadelphia?
3 A Right. Yes.
4 Q What was your age when you got married? I
5 can compute it from this, but --
6 A I was 21.
7 Q And how old was she?
8 A She was 20.
9 Q How long had you gone together?
10 A Two years.
11 Q I understand that you had no children; is
12 that correct?
13 A Right. Yes.
14 Q Are you presently employed?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Where do you work?
17 A Freedom Square Nursing Pavilion, nursing
18 home.
19 Q And what do you do there?
20 A I'm a nurse's assistant.
21 Q How long have you done that?
22 A I'm sorry?
23 Q How long have you been employed in that job?
24 A A month and a half.
25 Q Do you have any special training for that;
___
p.10 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 did you go to any school or courses to do that?
2 A No, I didn't.
3 Q What do you do in that job?
4 A I work with the Alzheimer's patients.
5 Q What did you do before that?
6 A I was working restaurants.
7 Q Doing what?
8 A General manager.
9 Q Which restaurants?
10 A I worked at Agostino's Ristorante; I was
11 general manager.
12 Q At the one on Ulmerton?
13 A Yes.
14 Q You were general manager?
15 A Yes.
16 Q How long did you do that?
17 A Three years.
18 Q From when to when?
19 A 1970 --
20 Q 1980 you mean?
21 A 1980, yeah, '80 to --
22 Q No. No.
23 A No. Wait a minute.
24 Q It has to start with an '80. I'm not trying
25 to give you the last part of the year, but you didn't
___
p.11 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 come here until '80 something.
2 A Let me figure this out. I think it was '84
3 to '88, like the beginning of '88.
4 Q Were you working there when your wife became
5 ill?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Let's assume she became ill on
8 February 25, 1990.
9 A Yeah.
10 Q According to my records.
11 A I'm not sure of the dates that I worked at
12 Agostino's.
13 Q Okay. And let's also assume you didn't come
14 to Florida until 1985.
15 A Right. I'm not sure of the dates.
16 Q Okay. But for three years, right?
17 A Right.
18 Q Okay. When did you stop working there?
19 A When my wife became ill.
20 Q Sometime in 1990?
21 A The end of 1990, yeah.
22 Q What did you do after you left Agostino's?
23 A Took care of my wife.
24 Q Did you work at all from the end of 1990
25 until you got this job at Freedom Square?
___
p.12 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A No.
2 Q So you left there sometime the end of 1990
3 and then devoted your time to taking care of your wife?
4
5 A Yes.
6 Q And then you went back to work for the first
7 time about a month and a half ago at Freedom Square?
8 A Correct.
9 Q That would be sometime, say, the first part
10 of June?
11 A Right. Correct.
12 Q Of 1992?
13 A Right.
14 Q You've mentioned some places that you've
15 lived primar -- particularly with the Schindlers. Am I
16 correct in assuming that at times your wife was also
17 residing there, too?
18 A Right. Yes.
19 Q Let me see if I can back up a little bit and
20 find out just exactly where she was when, so I can get
21 some kind of a chronology on that, and I'm going to try
22 and help you if I can.
23 A Okay.
24 Q Okay. It's my understand that your wife
25 went into Humana Hospital on February 25, 1990.
___
p.13 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A Correct. Yes.
2 Q So she was there from 2/25, 1990 until -- I
3 understand she left on May 9, 1990; is that correct?
4 A Sounds correct.
5 Q Okay. And from Humana Hospital, she went to
6 Sable Palms Nursing Home?
7 A No, she didn't.
8 Q She went to Cottage Nursing Home?
9 A College Harbor Nursing Home.
10 Q College Harbor Nursing Home. And how long
11 was she there? I don't have that record for some
12 reason. I'm sorry, how long was she there?
13 A Approximately two months.
14 Q Okay. From May 9 to around sometime in July?
15 A That's approximately two months.
16 Q Okay. Then she went to Bayfront Medical
17 Center?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And she was in Bayfront for two months?
20 A Correct. Yes.
21 Q July, '90 to September, '90; is that correct?
22 A Sounds --
23 Q Where did she go after Bayfront, did she go
24 home for a while?
25 A She went home to 2630.
___
p.14 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q 2630.
2 A Vina Del Mar.
3 Q East Vina Del Mar where you lived with her at
4 the apartment?
5 A At the house.
6 Q Okay. I'm sorry, at the house, right, where
7 you lived with the Schindlers?
8 A Correct.
9 Q Vina Del Mar, is that in St. Pete or is that
10 in St. Pete Beach?
11 A St. Pete Beach.
12 Q How long was she home with you and the
13 Schindlers?
14 A Approximately three months.
15 Q Is that when you left your job at Agostino's?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. She was home about three months and
18 then where did she go?
19 A That's when we left for San Francisco.
20 Q Okay. You took her to California?
21 A Correct.
22 Q How long was she in California?
23 A Two months.
24 Q Where was it she was -- where was she in
25 California?
___
p.15 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A San Jose.
2 Q And what was the name of the institution that
3 she was in?
4 A Meadowbrooke.
5 Q And what was the purpose of going to
6 California at that time?
7 A She had some surgery.
8 Q What type of surgery?
9 A She had an implant put into her head.
10 Q What type of implant?
11 A It's a stimulator.
12 Q What was the purpose of that?
13 A It -- the doctors thought it could help her
14 regain consciousness.
15 Q Did it do anything?
16 A No.
17 Q In other words, was she in any way changed by
18 any of the things -- by anything that they did for her
19 out in California?
20 A Nothing was changed.
21 Q Okay. After you returned from San Jose, did
22 she come back and live with you again?
23 A She came back to live with us again, yes.
24 Q That's at Vina Del Mar?
25 A Yes. Correct.
___
p.16 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q And you were still living with the Schindlers
2 at that time?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Now, you mentioned the fact that while she
5 was home with you during those periods, you were taking
6 care of her; is that correct?
7 A Correct.
8 Q What kind of things were you doing for her?
9 A Her daily care, making sure she was turned,
10 skin care, feedings, catheters, mouth care, parental
11 care, medicines, suctioning.
12 Q Full-time attendance?
13 A No.
14 Q Pretty much full-time attendance?
15 A Yes. I was, yes.
16 Q Were you getting some assistance from her
17 parents also?
18 A Her mother and father, yes.
19 Q You mentioned feedings. Was she being fed
20 through a gastrostomy?
21 A Correct.
22 Q How long was she home on -- and that's after
23 you now returned from California?
24 A Approximately three weeks.
25 Q And then were did she go?
___
p.17 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A To Mediplex Rehab.
2 Q In Bradenton?
3 A Right. Yes.
4 Q You can say right, you can say yeah, as long
5 as you don't say uh-huh and huh-uh. Okay? Thanks.
6 Why was she transferred to Mediplex at that time?
7 A For rehab.
8 Q Okay. And how long was she at Mediplex?
9 A Approximately six months.
10 Q And what did they do for her there? You
11 mentioned rehab, what kind of rehab are we talking
12 about?
13 A Physical therapy, occupational therapy, coma
14 stimulation.
15 MR. WOODWORTH: What kind of stimulation?
16 THE DEPONENT: Coma stim.
17 Q (By Mr. Deacon) During this time now,
18 we're -- you know, we've been to Humana and then you
19 went to College Harbor, then you went to California,
20 she was home for periods of time, she's now in
21 Mediplex; did her condition change at all from the time
22 that it was -- I mean, from what it was when she left
23 Humana in May of 1990?
24 A Very, very little.
25 Q Okay. Can you quantify that? In other
___
p.18 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 words, what things was she different in with regard
2 to --
3 A Her eyes opened up.
4 Q Okay. After the six months at Mediplex,
5 where did she go?
6 A Sable Palms.
7 Q Okay. Why was she transferred from Mediplex
8 to Sable Palms?
9 A For care of her.
10 Q I mean, what could they do for her at Sable
11 Palms that they couldn't do for her at Mediplex, or
12 vice versa?
13 A Well, Mediplex, they just -- they go to the
14 point where they couldn't do anything else or help
15 Terry out anymore. Sable Palms is a nursing home.
16 Q That was mainly for custodial care?
17 A Sable Palms?
18 Q Yes.
19 A Yes.
20 MR. WOODWORTH: Well --
21 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Well, do they do anything
22 for her while she was there? In other words --
23 MR. WOODWORTH: Wait a minute. Let me just
24 object to the form of your last question, because
25 custodial care means lots of things to lots of
___
p.19 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 people, including your other client Pru Care. I
2 mean, what you may consider custodial care, her
3 physicians may consider to be skilled nursing
4 care, so if you'd be specific in your question.
5 MR. DEACON: Okay. I understand that.
6 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Let me back up, and he's
7 correct in that objection, and that is it was my term
8 and not yours, even though you said yes. What did they
9 do for her at Sable Palms, what kind of services did
10 they perform for her?
11 A Skin care, feedings, medicines, doctors'
12 appointments, making sure she was on a schedule. They
13 do range of motion with her, they do a little speech
14 therapy with her, basically skilled nursing care.
15 Q Okay. Speech therapy. From the time she
16 entered Humana in February of 1990 until now, this time
17 she's at Sable Palms, let me see here, which looks like
18 sometime in the summer of '91, was she ever able to say
19 anything?
20 A No.
21 Q Well, was she ever -- did she ever utter any
22 sounds?
23 A She uttered sounds, yes.
24 Q What kind of sounds are we talking about?
25 A Moan, grunting.
___
p.20 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q Other than that, anything?
2 A No.
3 Q How long was she in Sable Palms?
4 A Approximately eight to nine months now.
5 Q Is she there now?
6 A Right.
7 Q She's been in Sable Palms since she left
8 Mediplex?
9 A Correct.
10 Q Where is Sable Palms?
11 A It's on Alternate Keene Road in Largo.
12 Q Keene Road?
13 A Uh-huh.
14 Q Since that time up to today, has her
15 condition in any way changed?
16 A No.
17 Q Let me ask you just exactly what does she do
18 during a day? In other words, what -- you know, what
19 happens to her during a normal day?
20 A As far as -- I don't understand your
21 question.
22 Q Well, she obviously goes to sleep.
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q That's right?
25 A Right.
___
p.21 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q Okay. When she wakes up, what is done for
2 her and how does she respond, if at all?
3 A Okay. The -- the aids come in, they get her
4 up, they give her a shower every day, they dress her;
5 the restorative nurse will come around and do range of
6 motion with her; the nurses will come in and do her
7 treatments. They get her dressed and they place her in
8 a wheelchair, and the nurses will take her down in
9 front of the nurses' station, or the social worker will
10 come down and get her and take her to her office, and
11 she sits in her chair for the rest of the day until
12 about 1:00. They put her back in bed to give her her
13 medicines and they let her rest for an hour, and then
14 they get her back up until about 4:00, and she's back
15 in bed for her -- they start her feedings, clean her
16 up.
17 Q Okay. And then after that?
18 A They just maintain her by making sure she's
19 turned, put the TV on for her, and the nurses are in
20 and out talking to her and --
21 Q Okay. Let me back up a little bit with
22 regard to that. When they get her up, she opens her
23 eyes, obviously. In other words, her eyes are open; is
24 that correct?
25 A Right.
___
p.22 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q Is she able to make any cognitive sounds; by
2 this I mean any sounds that would indicate that she
3 knows what she's doing?
4 A No.
5 Q Is she able to make any volitional movements
6 of any of her, you know, arms, legs; in other words,
7 can she move her arms and legs spontaneously?
8 A Not voluntarily, no.
9 Q Not voluntarily? Okay. They put her in the
10 wheelchair and then wheel her down to the nurses'
11 station where they can watch her?
12 A Uh-huh. Correct. Sorry.
13 Q And she continues to sit there until they
14 take her back for her nap?
15 A Her medications.
16 Q Okay. At 1:00?
17 A Correct.
18 Q What medications is she on?
19 A At the present, Tegretol.
20 Q What is that? I don't know that one.
21 A It's seizure medicines.
22 Q Like Dilantin, something like that?
23 A Correct. Humibid Sprinkle.
24 Q I'm sorry, one more time.
25 A Humibid.
___
p.23 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 Q Humi --
2 A Humibid.
3 Q Okay. Go ahead. Humibid Sprinkle?
4 A Sprinkle.
5 Q What is that?
6 A That is a bronchodilator.
7 Q Okay.
8 A She gets a multi-vitamin.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And I believe, to my knowledge, the best of
11 my knowledge, that's -- you have to go into her
12 records. I forget what she's on.
13 Q I just kind of wanted to get an idea what
14 kind of -- you know, types of meds she's getting. Then
15 she's up and stays in the chair until four?
16 A Approximately 4:00.
17 Q And then they put her back for her feedings?
18 A Correct.
19 Q Is she still being fed through a G-tube?
20 A Correct.
21 Q Is she on a Foley?
22 A No.
23 Q For urine?
24 A No. She's incontinent.
25 Q She wears a pad?
___
p.24 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A She wears a diaper.
2 Q You mentioned they put her in the bed and
3 then they turn the TV on; is that right?
4 A Uh-huh. Correct.
5 Q Thanks. And does she show any signs as far
6 as your observation is concerned of being able to watch
7 and understand what's on the TV?
8 A No.
9 Q Do you know why they do that?
10 A Just to create noise, stimulation.
11 Q Speaking of stimulation, obviously you have
12 seen them in the hospital and in the nursing homes --
13 in the hospitals and in the nursing homes attempt to
14 stimulate her with regard to, say, a pain stimulus or a
15 sound stimulus?
16 A They -- the only thing that I've
17 recognized -- or recalled them doing was the bottom of
18 her feet with a pin.
19 Q Did she seem to respond to that?
20 A Not at the time, no.
21 Q Okay.
22 A That was back in Humana.
23 Q Have you seen her respond at all to noise
24 stimulation; by that I mean sound of a voice or the
25 clap of a hand or something of that nature?
___
p.25 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 A Yes.
2 Q How does she respond to noise?
3 A She'll jump.
4 Q Who is her main attending physician at the
5 present time?
6 A Dr. Patrick Mulroy.
7 Q And he attends her at Sable Palms?
8 A We go there.
9 Q He goes there?
10 A No, we go to him.
11 Q Oh, you go to him?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Okay.
14 MR. WOODWORTH: It's called the mountain,
15 slash,
16 Mohammed syndrome.
17 MR. DEACON: Okay. There are many physicians
18 who
19 do go to nursing homes.
20 MR. WOODWORTH: It seems to be a inherent
21 characteristic.
22 MR. DEACON: There was a note way back
23 here --
24 MR. WOODWORTH: That I wouldn't interrupt?
25 Sorry
___
p.26 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 about that. I have a lapse now and then.
2 MR. DEACON: Well, you made it 35 minutes;
3 that's
4 pretty good for you.
5 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Dr. Mulroy is what type of
6 doctor, what's his specialty?
7 A Internist.
8 Q Okay. And where is he located?
9 A 1258 West Bay Drive.
10 Q Largo?
11 A Correct.
12 Q What is it that Dr. Mulroy does for your
13 wife, if anything?
14 A He checks her out, makes sure her heart and
15 lungs are okay, constantly does blood work on her. If
16 we have a problem, we take her to him, you know; she
17 has a constant sore on her toe that he's taking care
18 of, and basic maintenance, skilled maintenance for her.
19 Q Is that a pressure sore on her toe kind of
20 thing?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Who else, if anyone, is seeing her on a
23 regular basis, if anyone?
24 A Nobody, just Dr. Mulroy.
25 Q Okay. Have you noticed any improvement in
___
p.27 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 1
1 your wife at all?
2 A No.
3 MR. DEACON: Off the record.
4 (Whereupon an off the record discussion was
5 held)
6 Q (By Mr. Deacon) When your wife was at
7 Mediplex, who was she seeing there?
8 A As far as doctors?
9 Q Yeah. Who was her main physician at that
10 place?
11 A Dr. Carnahan.
12 Q Have you -- other than the fact that she
13 opened her eyes at the time she left Humana, have you
14 noticed any change in your wife's condition at all
15 between the time she left Humana and today, July 27,
16 1992?
17 A Very, very little.
18 Q And what very little -- very, very little
19 change have you noticed?
20 A She'll respond to noise, she'll respond to
21 pain, and that's it.
22 Q Has Dr. Mulroy or any other physician
23 indicated to you that there will be, within any medical
24 expectation, any substantial change in her condition in
25 the future?
___
p.28 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A Nobody has said anything to me.
2 Q Has anyone told you, Michael, there will not
3 be a change in her with any kind of reasonable
4 expectation?
5 A Dr. DeSousa; that was back in Humana.
6 Q Okay. What did he tell you?
7 A He said that as far as he can tell, Terry
8 will only open her eyes.
9 Q And did he mean by that, as far as you
10 understand, that that is as far as she's going to
11 progress?
12 A Right.
13 Q When you say she has her eyes open, does she
14 in any way respond -- can she respond, say if you asked
15 her a question, by blinking her eyes or anything of
16 that nature?
17 A No, she can't.
18 Q Other than the fact that, you know, she has,
19 of course, these, you know, neurological problems, how
20 is her health otherwise?
21 A Basically stable right now.
22 Q Does she have any physical problems that you
23 can see, other than neurological ones?
24 A She has the sore on the toe that's constant.
25 She had a toe removed.
___
p.29 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q Who did that?
2 A I forget the doctor's name.
3 Q When was that done?
4 A Approximately six months ago.
5 Q For the same reason, pressure sore?
6 A Yeah. Pressure sores.
7 Q Other than that, how's her health?
8 A Good. Basically stable right now.
9 Q Has she had periods of time when her health
10 has been other than stable during this time while
11 she's -- let's say while she's been at Sable Palms for
12 the last year?
13 A At Sable Palms?
14 Q Uh-huh.
15 A It's been pretty stable at Sable Palms.
16 Q How about Mediplex, any health problems
17 there?
18 A I don't believe so, no.
19 Q Okay. Has anyone indicated to you that
20 they're going to need to do any type of procedures as
21 far as surgical procedures? You mentioned the cerebral
22 implant that she had, and you also mentioned the
23 amputation due to decubitus ulcer, or whatever it was
24 on her toe. Has anyone indicated to you that she's
25 going to need any further medical treatment in the near
___
p.30 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 future?
2 A They've indicated it to me, but they didn't
3 say what.
4 Q And who was that that indicated that to you?
5 A Dr. Mulroy has indicated it to me, Dr.
6 Carnahan has indicated, Dr. Alcazaren.
7 Q That --
8 A He's a Mediplex guy.
9 Q Did they indicate the nature of this
10 procedure?
11 A She didn't indicate -- or they didn't
12 indicate.
13 Q When your wife is in the wheelchair, is she
14 able to hold herself erect or is she braced in the
15 chair?
16 A She's braced in the chair.
17 Q All right. Let me start from the beginning,
18 okay, and that is, when did you meet your wife?
19 A In 1979.
20 Q Where was that?
21 A At Bucks County Community College.
22 Q Were you a student there at the time?
23 A Correct.
24 Q And was she also?
25 A Correct.
___
p.31 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q When you met her in 1979, was she fairly
2 heavy?
3 A No.
4 Q She was not?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. And how long did you date her during
7 that period of time?
8 A We dated about five months.
9 Q And then what?
10 A We were engaged for the rest of the time.
11 Q And I think you indicated to me earlier that
12 you were married in '81?
13 A Correct.
14 Q During this period of time, from '79 to '81,
15 was your wife heavy?
16 A No.
17 Q Now, maybe that's -- that's a very subjective
18 term; I apologize for it. I don't know how else to put
19 it. What was her weight during that period of time?
20 A Approximately 145 pounds.
21 Q I'm looking at some medical records -- do you
22 know who her doctor was up there in Pennsylvania?
23 A I never met that doctor, no.
24 Q Do you know --
25 A That was --
___
p.32 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q -- who any of her doctors were?
2 A No.
3 Q Did she ever mention any names of her
4 physicians, who her family doctor was?
5 A She did, but I never -- I don't remember the
6 names.
7 Q I've got some names, and see if any of these
8 names ring a bell with you, if you would. Dr. John
9 Ickler, I-c-k-l-e-r.
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. He was her pediatrician?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Okay. Do you remember her mentioning him?
14 A Yes.
15 Q A doctor, and I don't have a first name, I
16 apologize, a Dr. either Winer or Winer, W-i-n-e-r.
17 A Yes. Yes.
18 MR. WOODWORTH: What kind of a doctor is he?
19 MR. DEACON: I think he's a GP; he's a family
20 doctor, from looking at his records. It looks as
21 though he took care of not only her, but also her
22 family. I'm sure her mother and dad will probably
23 be a
24 better help in that regard.
25 Q (By Mr. Deacon) How about a Dr. Werther.
___
p.33 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 W-e-r-t-h-e-r?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Can you think of any other doctors
4 that she saw that --
5 A Those three sound the most familiar.
6 Q Okay. Looking at a record that I have in
7 1979, when was it that you met your wife, month?
8 A I'm trying to remember. It would be
9 somewhere around September.
10 Q And you think she a weighed about 145 at that
11 point?
12 A Right.
13 Q Okay. I'm looking at a record for February,
14 1979 that indicates that she was 64 and a half inches
15 tall, which would be five foot four and a half, and she
16 weighed 186 pounds; you don't recall her at that
17 weight?
18 A No, I don't
19 Q All right. And I'm looking at another record
20 of March 7, 1981 that indicates her weight was 200; you
21 don't recall her ever getting that high?
22 A No.
23 Q When were you married again?
24 A Can we back up for a minute?
25 Q Yeah.
p.34 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A I was married in '84.
2 Q That's what I thought. I'm thinking of --
3 you know, these don't --
4 A I just looked at my ring.
5 Q That doesn't jive. Okay.
6 A It's '84.
7 Q Because in '81, she was 17.
8 A Yeah.
9 Q Okay.
10 A '84. Sorry.
11 Q Okay. I just wanted to --
12 A I'm not good with dates.
13 Q I noticed that initially, and I don't mean
14 this to be a pest either, so let me get that back. You
15 were married 11/10/84?
16 A '84.
17 Q Okay. So am I correct, then, assuming that
18 you didn't know her when she wore the -- I mean, when
19 she weighed 200, and like that?
20 A No. I didn't know her then, no.
21 Q Okay. And when you met your wife, it
22 wouldn't have been '79?
23 A Can't be '79, no.
24 Q Because in '79 she was 15. It would be fair
25 to assume she wasn't in community college when she was
___
p.35 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 15.
2 A I'm terrible with dates. Sorry.
3 Q All right. So you actually met her probably,
4 if I'm not mistaken, you were married in '84, '82.
5 A '82.
6 Q Okay. Thank you.
7 A You're welcome.
8 Q All right. And that makes sense with regard
9 to her weights, because as a matter of fact, in
10 December of '82, she weighed 143 pounds. That sounds
11 right.
12 A Okay.
13 Q Okay? There you go. All right.
14 A I'll be put in the doghouse for that one.
15 MR. WOODWORTH: Nobody will ever know.
16 MR. DEACON: No one will ever know except
17 anybody
18 who might want to read that document.
19 Q (By Mr. Deacon) All right. You met her,
20 then, sometime in the fall of '82?
21 A Right.
22 Q And you started dating and you dated for four
23 months -- or five months and you got engaged, and then
24 stayed engaged until '84, when you were married?
25 A Correct.
___
p.36 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q During the time that you were engaged -- or
2 actually going together from 1982 to '84, dating and
3 engaged, would it be fair to say that you saw her on a
4 fairly regular basis?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Did you ever note her to have any type of
7 eating dysfunction or eating disorder or any type of --
8 A No.
9 Q -- thing where she wouldn't eat regularly?
10 Did you take her to dinner?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Did she ever -- did she eat normal foods?
13 A Yes, she did.
14 Q And as far as you saw her, she ate normally;
15 is that right?
16 A Correct.
17 Q And did her weight pretty much stay the same
18 during this period of time?
19 A As far as I can tell, yes.
20 Q Okay. In the 140 pound, 145 pound range; is
21 that right?
22 A Right.
23 Q Did she have any times where her weight
24 fluctuated; in other words, she would gain ten, 15, 20
25 pounds and then come back down?
___
p.37 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A When we were dating?
2 Q Yeah.
3 A Not that I could tell, and I really didn't
4 ask questions like that.
5 Q That's true. When you're engaged to a girl,
6 you don't say, you're getting a little porky or
7 something like that, that's right. But as far as you
8 could see from just your observation, she stayed about
9 the same?
10 A Correct.
11 MR. WOODWORTH: I want the record to reflect
12 that
13 I didn't say anything with that porky statement.
14 Okay?
15 MR. DEACON: Well, okay. But you just did
16 something there. Okay.
17 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Now, also during this period
18 of time, did she ever complain to you about any kind of
19 physical problems?
20 A No.
21 Q This is when you were dating.
22 A No.
23 MR. WOODSORTH: Off the record a minute.
24 (Whereupon an off the record discussion was
25 held)
___
p.38 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 (Whereupon a recess was taken)
2 MR. DEACON: I told your lawyer before you
3 came in that what I was referring to, I got these
4 notes in front of me, if you're kind of wondering,
5 was some records that I got from up north from Dr.
6 Ickler and also from Drs. Winer, W-i-n-e-r, and
7 Werther, W-e-r-t-h-e-r, just for my recollection
8 and refreshing my recollection as to what I had
9 read there.
10 Q (By Mr. Deacon) We had said -- mentioned the
11 fact that during that time, from 1982 to 1984, as far
12 as you personally were concerned, your wife's weight
13 stayed pretty much constant; is that correct?
14 A Basically, yes.
15 Q In addition to that fact, you didn't know,
16 nor did she complain, of any physical problems; is that
17 correct?
18 A Not to me.
19 Q All right. I note some complaints of
20 headaches in late 1982; do you recall those?
21 MR. WOODWORTH: Let me object to the form of
22 the
23 question.
24 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Did she ever complain to you
25 of headaches -- you're correct -- during that period of
___
p.39 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 time?
2 A Not to me, no.
3 Q All right. Did she ever complain to you of
4 complaints of dizziness, particularly when she would
5 get up quickly?
6 A Not that I can recall, no.
7 Q All right. I realize that you were just
8 dating during that period of time, but did she ever
9 complain to you, or make any statements to you that she
10 was having irregular menstrual periods?
11 A Not to me, no.
12 Q Did she ever mention to you that she was on a
13 diet?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Tell me about that, if you will. What did
16 she say to you?
17 A She said when she was younger, she went to
18 Nutri-System.
19 Q Okay.
20 A She was on a diet.
21 Q So she told you that she went through this
22 Nutri-System Program?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did she tell you how much weight she lost?
25 A No.
___
p.40 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q During the time that you were dating, from
2 '82 through '84, before you got married, was she on a
3 diet that you know about?
4 A No, she wasn't on a diet.
5 Q And this Nutri-System was before you met,
6 right?
7 A Correct.
8 Q But during the time you were engaged, she
9 wasn't on a diet?
10 A I'm sorry. Say that again.
11 Q During that time you were engaged, before you
12 were married, she was not on a diet as far as you know?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Did she have any unusual eating habits at all
15 during this period of time that you can recall?
16 A Not that I can recall, no.
17 Q Before I forget, did she have any real close
18 friends during that time that you were engaged, I mean
19 female friends?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Do you recall their names?
22 A Sue.
23 Q Okay. One was named Sue, right?
24 A Yeah.
25 Q There was a mention in the Humana record that
___
p.41 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 a friend of hers from up north came down to visit her.
2 A Sue.
3 Q That was Sue?
4 A I don't recall her --
5 MR. WOODWORTH: Objection to the form of the
6 question, by the way.
7 MR. DEACON: Okay. I'm --
8 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Do you recall a friend of
9 hers coming down from up north to visit her after her
10 attack?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. And was that lady Sue?
13 A Sue.
14 Q Do you know what Sue's last name is?
15 A That's what I'm trying to remember. Cobb.
16 Q Sue Cobb. And is that her present name? I
17 mean, was that --
18 A I haven't heard from Sue.
19 Q Okay. And where does Sue Cobb live as far as
20 you know?
21 A I have no idea.
22 Q But she lives somewhere in Pennsylvania?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q And that's somewhere near where Terry used to
25 live in Huntingdon Valley?
___
p.42 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A I suppose so. I don't know. I haven't heard
2 from her.
3 Q Okay. But you -- do you recall Sue coming
4 down to visit?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. I'm still in that period of time from
7 1982 to 1984 when you were engaged. Did she ever have
8 any complaints to you, she being your wife, that she
9 had problems digesting food?
10 A No.
11 Q Did she ever have any complaints to you of
12 any food intolerance, or types of food that she
13 couldn't eat or if she did eat would make her sick?
14 A When we came to Florida, yes.
15 Q Okay. And what types of food were those?
16 A Cot dairy products, lettuce.
17 Q That was just after you came here?
18 A Correct.
19 Q You don't recall her saying to you that she
20 had problems with dairy foods before she came here?
21 A No.
22 Q Or with salads giving her diarrhea?
23 A No.
24 Q But you do recall her indicating that dairy
25 products and lettuce, she was intolerant to those
___
p.43 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 foods, after you got here?
2 A Correct.
3 Q Did she eat those foods?
4 A After she was --
5 Q No, I mean after she got here and she said
6 that she didn't -- she had some intolerance to those
7 foods -- how did she put it to you?
8 A She ate some food and it didn't agree with
9 her; she went to the doctor, came back and the doctor
10 told her not to eat them.
11 Q You were married on November what, 11th?
12 A 10th.
13 Q 10th. '84?
14 A '84.
15 Q Let me ask you the same questions after you
16 got married as I did while you were engaged. Did you
17 notice any type of abnormal eating habits after you
18 were married and before you came to Florida?
19 A No.
20 Q When did you come to Florida?
21 A Dates again. 19 -- no.
22 Q Couldn't have been '70.
23 A I'm trying to think here.
24 Q Let me help you if I can. The last item I
25 have --
___
p.44 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A '87. '87 we came here.
2 Q '87. Okay.
3 A April, '87.
4 Q Okay. After you were married on November 10,
5 1984, up to the time you came to Florida in April of
6 '87, did you note any abnormal eating habits as far as
7 your wife was concerned?
8 A Not that I can recall, no.
9 Q Did you notice any -- I mean, did she seem to
10 eat balanced meals?
11 A As far as I can tell.
12 Q What kind of --
13 MR. WOODWORTH: Are we talking now the entire
14 marriage or just until we came to Florida?
15 Q (By Mr. Deacon) No. I'm restricting these
16 questions, and thank you, you know, for that, I'm
17 restricting these questions from November, '84 until
18 April, '87, which is about a two and a half year period
19 of time.
20 A Before I came to Florida?
21 Q Before you came to Florida.
22 A She ate normally.
23 Q Was she employed during that time?
24 A Yes, she was.
25 Q What did she do?
___
p.45 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A She worked for Prudential.
2 Q And from -- and for what period of time?
3 A She started five months before we got
4 married, so that would be '84.
5 Q And she worked there all during the time up
6 to the time you left?
7 A Right. She transferred.
8 Q Did she complain of any food intolerance at
9 that time, from the time you were married until the
10 time you came to Florida?
11 A Not that I can recall.
12 Q She was seeing a doctor now and then; was she
13 not?
14 A Which doctor?
15 Q Dr. Winer and Werther?
16 A As far as I can tell. I'm -- when we were
17 married?
18 Q Yes.
19 A No, she didn't see them when we were married.
20 Q Okay.
21 A We were only up there a year when we got
22 married.
23 Q Did her weight remain normal for those two
24 and a half years?
25 A Fluctuated up and down a little bit, not
___
p.46 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 much; basically the same.
2 Q Can you give me a weight range, if you're
3 able to?
4 A No, I can't
5 Q About the same as when you met her, which is
6 about 145 before?
7 A Fluctuated, like I said, up and down a little
8 bit.
9 Q Was she on any particular diets?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you note that your wife, during this
12 time, between November, 1984 and April of 1987, was
13 drinking any kind of large quantities of iced tea or
14 other liquids?
15 A She was -- used to drink a lot of Coke.
16 Q What do you mean by a lot?
17 A I can't give you an estimate, but it was a
18 good amount.
19 Q From just your observation, how many Cokes a
20 day?
21 A Five.
22 Q What about iced tea?
23 Q Not that I can recall, no.
24 MR. WOODWORTH: We're still talking '84 to
25 '87?
___
p.47 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 MR. DEACON: Same time, right. The same time
2 period.
3 MR. WOODWORTH: Okay.
4 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Was she on a diet at that
5 time?
6 A No.
7 Q During that time, did she complain of any
8 physical problems that you can recall, any illnesses,
9 headaches, upset stomachs?
10 A Not that I can recall.
11 Q Now, you mentioned your wife was working at
12 Prudential; what were her hours at Prudential?
13 A Back then it was, I think, eight to four.
14 Q Eight a.m. to four p.m., right?
15 A Yeah.
16 Q Okay. Were you working at that time?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And where were you working?
19 A At McDonald's.
20 Q And what were you doing there?
21 A Manager.
22 Q And your hours?
23 A Fluctuated from five in the morning to one,
24 or ten to six, or four to close.
25 Q So you had fluctuating hours?
___
p.48 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 A Yeah. Basically closing.
2 Q If you worked at closing, it would be four to
3 close; is that right?
4 A Right.
5 Q Okay. During this period of time, did you
6 notice your wife having any -- did you notice your wife
7 having any menstrual periods during this -- I mean,
8 any -- I'm sorry, any menstrual problems during this
9 time?
10 A Not that I can recall.
11 Q Did her periods seem to be regular?
12 A As far as I can tell.
13 Q Did she ever say anything to you, Mike, I'm
14 concerned about the fact that I'm not getting a period,
15 or my periods aren't coming regularly, during that
16 time?
17 A Before we moved here?
18 Q Yes, sir.
19 A No, not that I can recall.
20 Q Okay. Do you recall her seeing the doctor at
21 all for irregular periods during that time?
22 A No, I don't recall.
23 Q Was there a time when she thought she was
24 pregnant before you got here?
25 A I really don't recall.
___
p.49 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q Were her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler,
2 living in Pennsylvania during this time also, or did
3 they come to Florida beforehand?
4 A Could you rephrase that, please?
5 Q Okay. When did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler come
6 to Florida?
7 A Three months after we did.
8 Q Okay. So would it be fair to say that during
9 the time that you were there and you were married,
10 living in Pennsylvania, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler were
11 also living nearby?
12 A Correct.
13 Q They were living in Huntingdon Valley?
14 A Correct.
15 Q And you were living in Levittown?
16 A No. We moved to Huntingdon Valley.
17 Q So you were living in Huntingdon Valley also?
18 A Yeah.
19 Q Were you living with them?
20 A No.
21 Q You had your own place?
22 A Correct.
23 Q Was there anyone else living with you besides
24 you and your wife?
25 A No.
___
p.50 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 Q In your own place?
2 A Just us.
3 Q Okay. I think you indicated that you didn't
4 remember her at any time during the time you were in
5 Pennsylvania thinking that she was pregnant.
6 A Let me think back for a minute. As a matter
7 of -- yes. As a matter of fact, I remember her --
8 yeah.
9 Q Okay. Do you know why that was?
10 A Why we thought she was pregnant?
11 Q Yes.
12 A Because I guess she missed her period.
13 Q Was she, in fact, pregnant?
14 A No. No.
15 Q Let me back up just a little bit. During the
16 time from the time you became engaged until you left to
17 go to Florida, was your wife ever hospitalized to your
18 knowledge?
19 A No.
20 Q During this time, did you have any physical
21 problems at all?
22 A No.
23 Q Other than the doctors whose names I've
24 mentioned, Dr. Ickler, Dr. Winer or Winer and Dr.
25 Werther, do you recall the names of any other
___
p.51 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 physicians that she saw?
2 A No, I don't. I think they're the basic --
3 Q Was your --
4 MR. WOODWORTH: Wait a minute.
5 MR. DEACON: I'm not saying she did, I just
6 wondered if there was. I don't know of any.
7 MR. WOODWORTH: Okay.
8 MR. DEACON: I do not know of any other
9 doctors
10 that she saw. I'm not trying to sandbag you with
11 that
12 question.
13 MR. WOODWORTH: I know you wouldn't try to
14 sandbag me. I'm just confused because I thought
15 he testified that to his knowledge she didn't see
16 any doctors during the period of their marriage up
17 there, so that puts the form of your question
18 somewhat in doubt in my mind.
19 MR. DEACON: Okay. I take that back.
20 Q (By Mr. Deacon) My question was other than
21 those doctors, during the time, let's say, that you
22 were engaged and/or married, do you recall any other
23 physicians that she saw?
24 A No, I don't.
25 Q Was your wife taking any medication, first of
___
p.52 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 2
1 all during the time that you were engaged?
2 A No.
3 Q Was she taking any medication as far as you
4 know during the time that you were married, from
5 November of '84 until April of '87, before you came to
6 Florida?
7 A Not that I can recall.
8 Q Did she ever complain to you of being dizzy
9 or lightheaded at any time during the time that you
10 were married?
11 A Before we moved to Florida or after?
12 Q No. Before you moved to Florida.
13 A Not that I can recall.
14 MR. WOODWORTH: I feel like I'm in a
15 different
16 world. Didn't you already ask him that?
17 MR. DEACON: I'm not sure.
18 MR. WOODWORTH: Doesn't matter. Forge ahead.
19 MR. DEACON: Okay.
20 (By Mr. Deacon) Prior to your coming to
21 Florida, did your wife take any diuretics, either over
22 the counter or by prescription, that you knew about?
23 A No, she did not.
24 Q Let's go from the time you moved to Florida
25 forward, if we can. And I think you indicated you
___
p.53 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 moved here in April of --
2 A '87.
3 Q -- '87. And we already know that I'm not
4 going to hold you to dates.
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 A Don't do that.
8 Q Okay. I won't do that. The first indication
9 that I have after you moved to Florida of your wife
10 seeing any physicians, was she saw Dr. Prawer,
11 P-r-a-w-e-r, a family physician, initially in -- let me
12 get the dates straight here -- October -- October 20,
13 1987. Did your wife, to your knowledge, see any other
14 physicians in Florida before seeing Dr. Prawer in
15 October of '87?
16 A No, she did not.
17 MR. WOODWORTH: Can we go off the record a
18 minute?
19 MR. DEACON: Yes, sir.
20 (Whereupon an off the record discussion was
21 held)
22 MR. DEACON: Let me go back on the record, if
23 I
24 can, with regard to that.
25 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Mr. Schiavo, your attorney's
___
p.54 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 pointed out to me that contained in Dr. Prawer's
2 records which I just pulled out of my satchel is a
3 record that says Humana Med First --
4 MR. WOODWORTH: Wait a minute. We don't know
5 if
6 that's a part of Dr. Prawer's records.
7 MR DEACON: No. No. I know that. I said
8 contained in Dr. Prawer's, that's where they were
9 in my
10 records and that's where they were -- I don't
11 know.
12 Q (By Mr. Deacon) But to make a long story
13 short, I have a record that is dated 9/26/86, that is
14 obviously a record generated in this county, in
15 Pinellas County, Florida, because it refers to a doctor
16 who is a Pinellas County doctor, a Dr. O-s-h-e-r, Dr.
17 Osher, who is an orthopedic surgeon in this town.
18 Could it be, sir, that when you mentioned you moved
19 here to Florida in April of '87 it was really April of
20 '86?
21 A No. It was April of '87.
22 Q Okay. Did she come down here before you any
23 period of time?
24 A Nope.
25 Q Let me ask you this question. Does the phone
___
p.55 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 number 381-2707 have any significance to you?
2 A None whatsoever.
3 MR. WOODWORTH: What is it, 381?
4 MR. DEACON: 381-2707.
5 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Do you know what your phone
6 number was at the first place you lived when you came
7 here?
8 A No, but it was an 866 number.
9 Q 866? Okay. I have another document from the
10 Prudential HMO, the big stamp on the side, which is
11 obviously just a receipt stamp from Woodworth and
12 Dugan, Chartered, that has the name Theresa Schiavo,
13 employment date -- either that or effective date, I
14 can't read it, 9/22/86, ID number 16360578901, a little
15 card with Prudential on it. Indicating -- and on the
16 top it says Pru Care HMO. And underneath t it has
17 the name Prawer, P-r-a-w-e-r, Joel, S., M.D., phone
18 number 813-867-2151.
19 MR. WOODWORTH: I think that's a membership
20 card
21 in the Pru Care system.
22 MR. DEACON: It certainly is, but it's dated
23 1986.
24 MR. WOODWORTH: Let's go off the record a
25 minute.
___
p.56 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 MR. DEACON: Yes, sir.
2 (Whereupon an off the record discussion was
3 held)
4 Q (By Mr. Deacon) But as far as you can
5 recall, it was April of '87 when you moved here?
6 A As far as I can recall.
7 Q Okay. After you moved here in 1980 --
8 whatever it was, '87, we'll say -- you mentioned the
9 fact that as far as you can recall, the first doctor
10 she saw was Dr. Prawer; is that correct?
11 A Correct.
12 Q And that was October 20, 1987; if you know?
13 A I don't know the date.
14 Q She was mentioning -- okay. Do you recall
15 her having a problem with a lump on her breast?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Do you recall her having a problem with warts
18 on her toe?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Was she having any other problem in the fall
21 of '87 that you can recall for which she would have
22 seen a doctor?
23 A No.
24 Q Up to this time when you first -- from the
25 time you first moved to Florida until the time she went
___
p.57 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 to see Dr. Prawer, did she make any complaints to you
2 of the fact that she was having any kind of irregular
3 periods or was missing periods?
4 A No, she did not.
5 Q Did her periods seem to be regular to you?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Were you at that time -- let me back up a
8 little bit further. Were you, from the time of your
9 marriage up until this time, the fall of '87,
10 practicing birth control?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay. And what means were you using?
13 A Condoms.
14 MR. WOODWORTH: Was she ever on birth control
15 pills?
16 THE DEPONENT: No.
17 MR. DEACON: That was my next question.
18 Thank you
19 very much.
20 Q (By Mr. Deacon) I just want to, you know,
21 she was never on birth control pills during your
22 marriage?
23 A No, she was not.
24 MR. WOODWORTH: Was there any reason for
25 that?
___
p.58 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Did they make her feel bloated up or something?
2 THE DEPONENT: No. She just never took them.
3 MR. DEACON: Did you get that? Put that in
4 the
5 record. Thank you very much.
6 MR. DEACON: If you want to ask a question
7 during this, Glen, you know, because I know how
8 you are, notwithstanding promises made early on,
9 you go right ahead and ask the question, because
10 if it's something for clarification or whatever, I
11 have no problem with you doing that. I wouldn't
12 want you to sit there and blow up, you know, and
13 burst, so you go ahead and ask questions.
14 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Other than condoms, did you
15 use any other type of birth control?
16 A No.
17 Q I think you indicated that up to this time
18 you had no indication that your wife had any type of
19 irregularity as far as her periods were concerned?
20 A No indication at all.
21 Q When you came here initially, I understand
22 she transferred to Prudential, right?
23 A Correct.
24 Q And she was a field representative; I think
25 that was the term.
___
p.59 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 A Correct.
2 Q What were her working hours?
3 A Seven to 3:15, I think.
4 Q And were you employed?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What was the first job you got here?
7 A With Olga's Kitchen.
8 MR. WOODWORTH: Who's kitchen?
9 MR. DEACON: Olga's.
10 THE DEPONENT: Olga's.
11 MR. WOODWORTH: I wouldn't work for anybody
12 by the name of Olga. Don't put that on there.
13 MR. DEACON: You got that down? Ask him
14 about if the name Olga conjures up whips and
15 chains to him, or something like that. You can
16 delete that part.
17 MR. WOODWORTH: No. No. No.
18 MR. DEACON: No, leave that part in then.
19 Leave that part in then; that's fine with me.
20 THE DEPONENT: It was a job.
21 MR. WOODWORTH: We all know that you're a
22 whipper and a chainer, or a whippee and a chainer.
23 MR. DEACON: No, I was referring to you and
24 what I know about you.
25 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Olga's Kitchen, what did you
___
1 ERRATA SHEET
Instructions:
2 Please read the original transcript of your
deposition and make note of any errors in transcription
3 on this page. Do not mark on the original transcript
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23 MICHAEL SCHIAVO
24 ____________________________
DATE
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p.60 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 do there?
2 A Assistant manager.
3 Q And where is that located?
4 A Clearwater Mall.
5 Q Clearwater Mall?
6 A Uh-huh. Right.
7 Q Is that the one that's on U.S. 19 and
8 Gulf-to-Bay?
9 A Correct. Correct.
10 Q And what were your working hours there?
11 A Basically 12 to ten.
12 Q 12 noon?
13 A To ten.
14 Q Ten p.m.?
15 A P.m..
16 Q How long were you there?
17 A Year and a half, approximately year and a
18 half.
19 Q And where did you go from there?
20 A I went to the Breckenridge Resort Hotel.
21 Q What did you do there?
22 A I was the dining room manager.
23 Q And what was your work time there; in other
24 words, what times of day did you work?
25 A 3:00 in the afternoon until one or 2:00 in
___
p.61 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 the morning.
2 Q What days of the week did you work both at
3 Olga's and at Breckenridge?
4 A Fluctuated.
5 Q In other words, you could --
6 A I mean, the schedule changed every week.
7 Q Okay. Fluctuating days?
8 A Right.
9 Q All during this time, am I correct in
10 assuming, up to the time of the incident involving your
11 wife on February 25, 1990, she continued to work at
12 Prudential; is that correct?
13 A Correct.
14 Q And she worked pretty much these same hours
15 all during that time?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Okay. How long were you working at the
18 Breckenridge?
19 A Approximately a year and a half, two years.
20 Q Okay. And then where did you go from there?
21 A Dolphin Beach Resort.
22 Q Okay. Dolphin Beach?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q How long did you work there?
25 A That was maybe about three weeks.
___
p.62 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Q Okay. What did you do there?
2 A Food and beverage manager.
3 Q And your hours there?
4 A Basically all day, all night.
5 Q Okay. And then from there did you go -- from
6 there, where did you go?
7 A Then I went to the Columbia. I opened up The
8 Pier.
9 Q And how long did you work there?
10 A Two years approximately.
11 Q Okay. Let me tell you something right now.
12 Right now you are into the year 1992, by your own
13 calculations.
14 A Am I?
15 Q Yeah.
16 A Told you I was bad at dates.
17 Q And you haven't gone to Agostino's yet, where
18 you were working when your wife had her attack. Okay.
19 Because if you came here in April of '87, right, and
20 you worked a year and a half at Olga's and a year and a
21 half in Breckenridge back in 1990
22 A I said they were approximate dates.
23 Remember, I said I'm not good with dates.
24 Q I remember that. All right. We'll put
25 little question marks by -- the three weeks is probably
___
p.63 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 valid, right, at the --
2 A Yeah.
3 Q -- at the Dolphin?
4 A That was just a stop-over between --
5 Q All right. The Columbia you worked a couple
6 years, you think?
7 A Approximately.
8 Q Okay.
9 A I opened it up and I was there for a while.
10 Q What did you do?
11 A I was dining room manager.
12 Q And what were your hours there?
13 A Basically two in the afternoon until two in
14 the morning.
15 Q And where did you go after that?
16 A Agostino's.
17 Q Okay. And how long were you there before
18 your wife had her attack? Go ahead. I just want --
19 this is -- this is a test.
20 A Approximately two years.
21 Q Okay. I realize you're not very good at
22 dates and you missed your wedding date by, you know,
23 like five years, but other than that --
24 A Well, we all can't be perfect.
25 Q We all can't be good, I'm not either, you
___
p.64 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 know, so let me just say this, I realize these are
2 guesstimates on your part, and I'm not going to hold
3 you to any of these. Okay. What did you do at
4 Agostino's?
5 A General manager.
6 Q And your working hours there?
7 A From ten in the morning until ten, 11, 12 at
8 night.
9 Q All right. What were your days of week at
10 both Columbia and Agostino's?
11 A Days?
12 Q In other words, what days did you work?
13 A Agostino's it was Monday through Saturday.
14 Columbia, it was Monday through Saturday, practically.
15 It was a brand new restaurant; we worked every day.
16 Q Seven days, right?
17 A Yeah. Worked every day.
18 Q It would be, then, looking at just what
19 you've told me, correct to assume that because your
20 wife worked seven a.m. to 3:15 and you worked, looks
21 like either noon or two or three or ten 'til midnight,
22 or after that, you didn't see each other much other
23 than on Sundays?
24 A Correct.
25 Q Okay. During this time, the time from when
___
p.65 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 you came to Florida until your wife had her seizure or
2 attack on February 25, did your wife, to your
3 knowledge, have any type of an eating disorder or
4 dysfunction of any kind?
5 A To my knowledge, no.
6 Q Did she have any weight fluctuation -- I'm
7 talking between 4/87, which is your estimate of when
8 you got here, and March of '90, did she have any weight
9 fluctuation to any degree that you could see?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. And what happened during that time?
12 A She lost weight. What do you mean what
13 happened during that time?
14 Q Well, she lost weight?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q Okay. How much weight?
17 A Sometimes 20, 25 pounds.
18 Q Was her weight fluctuating back and forth?
19 A Yes.
20 Q In other words, she'd lose 20, 25 pounds and
21 she'd put some of it back on?
22 A That's a guesstimate, 20, 25 pounds.
23 Q Okay. Did she take it off and keep it off?
24 A She put it back on; it would fluctuate.
25 Q Did you ever ask her how she was doing that,
___
p.66 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 was she on some kind of a diet or Nutri-System or --
2 A No, I never -- never did.
3 Q So you don't know how that happened; is that
4 correct?
5 A I -- that's correct, sir.
6 Q Okay. Did she tell you, Mike, I'm on a diet?
7 A No, she did not.
8 Q Did you inquire of her how it was that she
9 was losing this weight?
10 A I think I briefly asked her one time, and she
11 said she was just watching what she was eating.
12 Q Was that right after you got here or was that
13 during the whole period of time that you were here up
14 to --
15 A Just after we got here.
16 Q Okay. Did she get it down to a certain
17 weight and seem to maintain it for a while?
18 A Sometimes I noticed that, yeah.
19 Q Okay. But all she told you was she was just
20 watching what she was eating?
21 A Correct.
22 Q And from your observation, she did not appear
23 to have any kind of a eating disorder of any kind?
24 A Not to my observation.
25 Q When you saw her on the weekend, in other
___
p.67 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 words on Sunday, when you -- were you able to spend the
2 day with her?
3 A Correct. Yes.
4 Q Would she eat normally?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Tell me what she would eat.
7 A In the morning she'd wake up, she'd make
8 herself a huge omelette, and usually we would stop and
9 have lunch somewhere, and then she would eat dinner.
10 Q Did she -- you mentioned that she had an
11 intolerance to milk products and lettuce. Did she --
12 what kind of foods would she eat?
13 A She'd have tune fish, she loved fish,
14 spaghetti, pastas.
15 Q And as far as you know, was she eating
16 normally during this period of time otherwise, I mean,
17 on the days that you weren't there to see her? In
18 other words, I realize, for the most part, you never
19 saw her Monday through Saturday.
20 A Right.
21 Q Did you have any indication either from her
22 friends or family or from her that she wasn't eating
23 normally?
24 A No.
25 Q And that's up to the time that she had this
___
p.68 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 attack in February?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you ever say anything to her like begging
4 her to eat normally; did you ever do that?
5 A Once in a while I would tell her to put a
6 little weight on, but, you know --
7 Q Did you ever have to remind her to eat a
8 balanced diet?
9 A No.
10 Q How about consumption of liquids during this
11 time, particularly at the time just near the time when
12 she had this attack in February, by that I mean was she
13 consuming large quantities of liquid?
14 A Iced tea.
15 Q Tell me about that. What did you observe?
16 A She would drink a lot of iced tea.
17 Q And the word a lot has a different meaning.
18 A I can't put it into size, but an awful lot.
19 Q Okay. Well, from your observation, because
20 you were with her on Sundays, how many glasses or how
21 many gallons or how many quarts or --
22 A I would say she was drinking at least close
23 to a gallon.
24 Q Did she have social friends, I mean friends
25 that she hung out with when you were working and, you
___
p.69 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 know, she did things with?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Who were her social friends?
4 A She had a girlfriend Jackie Adams.
5 Q Jackie Adams. Jackie also works at
6 Prudential; is that correct?
7 A Correct.
8 Q Who else?
9 A That was basically her closest friend.
10 Q Any other names that you can think of?
11 A She was friends with Terry Welch.
12 Q Terry Welch, W-e-l-c-h?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Do you know where Terry works?
15 A Prudential.
16 Q Okay. Any other friends that you can recall
17 the names?
18 A Acquaintance, but nothing real close.
19 Q I had the name Sue Schwartz.
20 A She was friends, but that was --
21 Q Not that close?
22 A Nothing, they didn't go out. She was much
23 older lady; she was the office manager.
24 Q Oh, okay.
25 Q Who else that you can think of?
___
p.70 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 A Girl named Mary Ann. Mary Ann --
2 Q You don't remember Mary Ann's last name?
3 A I'm trying to think of it. Mary Ann -- I
4 don't remember Mary Ann's last name. It will come to
5 me.
6 MR. WOODWORTH: Let's go off the record a
7 minute.
8 MR. DEACON: Sure. Go ahead.
9 (Whereupon an off the record discussion was
10 held)
11 (Whereupon a recess was taken)
12 MR. DEACON: I want the record to reflect
13 that Attorney Glenn Woodworth had to leave this
14 deposition and he's being replaced by Attorney
15 Heather Harwell, who will be here possibly to the
16 end. Okay.
17 Q (By Mr. Deacon) We were talking, I think,
18 about the time, now that you're here, between the time
19 you arrived, you think was April of 1987, until your
20 wife's attack in February of 1990. Now, I asked you
21 the names of some of her friends, and you mentioned
22 Jackie Adams, Terry Welch and a Mary Ann, you didn't
23 know about her last name. Can you think of anybody
24 else?
25 A Those come to mind the most.
___
p.71 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Q Were they all at Prudential?
2 A Correct.
3 Q Did you socialize with these people at all;
4 in other words, on the weekends when you'd be home --
5 A No.
6 Q -- or like that? Okay. What kind of things
7 did your wife do while you were working? I realize she
8 had that period of time from, say, 3:30 until evening
9 as far as activities, social activities, things like
10 that.
11 A Sometimes she'd go visit her mom and dad, she
12 would -- she was much into arts and crafts, she'd go
13 shopping, do the house work, laundry.
14 Q Did you ever have conversations with her
15 friends, particularly Jackie Adams, who was her close
16 friend?
17 A Conversations --
18 Q Just, you know, would she drop over on the
19 weekend or something like that, or you'd go out there
20 and see her?
21 A No.
22 Q Or something of that nature?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay. Did any of her friends at any time
25 ever advise you that they thought your wife had any
___
p.72 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 kind of a eating disorder or a problem with ingesting
2 food or drinking --
3 A Before the incident?
4 Q Before the incident?
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. I haven't gotten to the after the
7 incident yet; we're going to get to that. Did anyone
8 ever tell you that they felt that your wife had any
9 kind of an eating disorder?
10 A No, not that I can recall.
11 Q Other than the fact that you knew she drank a
12 lot of iced tea, were you aware that she had any kind
13 of eating disorder where she didn't eat food that much?
14 A I was not aware of it.
15 Q Did you ever talk to the Schindlers, her
16 parents, about any kind of a nutritional or eating
17 disorder?
18 A I didn't think I had to.
19 Q Well, I didn't ask that, I said did you ever.
20 A No, I didn't.
21 Q All right. Now, she was, during this period
22 of time, seeing Dr. Prawer; was she not?
23 A Correct.
24 Q What was the main reason why she was seeing
25 Dr. Prawer as far as you know? I've got his notes, so
___
p.73 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 I'm not holding you to that, but --
2 A You want every reason or just --
3 Q Yeah. Why was she going there?
4 A Well, she had the warts removed.
5 Q Okay.
6 A She had that lump on her breast.
7 Q Okay.
8 A And she was going to see him for lightheaded
9 and dizziness.
10 Q Lightheaded and dizziness, right?
11 A Uh-huh.
12 Q When did she start becoming lightheaded and
13 dizzy?
14 A Maybe about four or five months before the
15 incident.
16 Q How often was that?
17 A I can't give you a number. I mean, I have
18 noticed -- I noticed it maybe three, four times.
19 Q Tell me about the occasions when you noticed
20 it.
21 A One occasion, my brother and his wife were
22 down, we were at Disney World and she nearly fainted.
23 My brother had to carry her out of the building.
24 Q What -- tell me about that. Where were you;
25 in other words, what pavilion or --
___
p.74 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 A I don't remember what pavilion.
2 Q Okay. You were at Disney?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What time of year was it?
5 A It was like March, February, March.
6 Q Okay. Let me just say to you that again
7 doesn't compute because she passed out at the end of
8 February, and it was four or five months before that;
9 it would be sometime in the winter or fall --
10 A All right. I'm sorry, you're right. It was
11 four or five months before.
12 Q Okay. I'll stick with that one. Okay. What
13 had you been doing before then?
14 A Before we went to Disney World?
15 Q Before she started feeling lightheaded and
16 almost passed out?
17 A Just standing there and we were talking.
18 Q What time of day was it?
19 A I think it was around 11:00, ten, 11:00.
20 Q So it was morning?
21 A Yeah.
22 Q Okay. Late morning. And had you gotten
23 there that day or had you been there a while?
24 A No, we just went down there for the day, no.
25 Q Okay. What day of the week was it; do you
___
p.75 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 recall?
2 A I don't recall what day of the week it was.
3 Q And who was with you again?
4 A My brother and his wife and their son.
5 Q Had you noted whether or not your wife had
6 eaten anything that morning before this?
7 A We had breakfast.
8 Q Okay.
9 A I do believe we had breakfast.
10 Q Do you know what she ate?
11 A Huh-uh. No.
12 Q That's a no, right?
13 A Yes. No.
14 Q Okay. What's your brother and wife's name?
15 A Steve and Pam.
16 Q And where do they live?
17 A In Levittown, PA.
18 Q Okay. What other times do you recall -- I'm
19 sorry. Had she taken any medication or anything of
20 that -- that day?
21 A No.
22 Q All right. What other times do you recall
23 when she was lightheaded or dizzy?
24 A Oh, we were at a -- we met this elderly
25 couple that we knew and they invited us up to a pool
___
p.76 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 bar where they belonged.
2 Q Do you remember what their names are?
3 A Helen and John O'Neill. John has since
4 deceased.
5 Q Okay. And what did you do? You went to a
6 pool bar?
7 A Yeah.
8 Q And what happened?
9 A She just started getting lightheaded and
10 almost fainted.
11 Q Had she had anything alcoholic to drink?
12 A No. She was drinking iced tea.
13 Q I read somewhere that she had some sort of a
14 reaction when she drank rum.
15 A That was another night we were all out, yes.
16 Q Tell me about that.
17 A We were all -- they were -- it was my father,
18 mother-in-law, a couple of friends, they came up to see
19 me at the Breckenridge, and she had a coffee drink that
20 had rum in it, and she got hives all over her body.
21 Q She didn't get lightheaded, she just got
22 hives?
23 A No, she just got hives and she got real hot.
24 Q Did your wife drink alcoholic beverages much?
25 A No.
___
p.77 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Q Did she smoke?
2 A No.
3 Q Can you think of any other occasions when she
4 became lightheaded during -- we're talking now about
5 the period of time up to the time when she had her
6 seizure, her attack.
7 A I can't recall any with me.
8 Q All right. Now, you mentioned as far as you
9 knew on the time -- with the time she was at Disney,
10 she wasn't taking any medications; is that correct?
11 A Could you rephrase that again?
12 Q You mentioned that at the time she had this
13 problem where she almost fainted at Disney, she was not
14 taking any medications?
15 A She was on no medication at all.
16 Q Okay. During this period of time, from the
17 time she started seeing Dr. Prawer to the time she had
18 her attack, was she on any medication, was she taking
19 any medication at all that you're aware of?
20 A Dr. Prawer wise?
21 Q Anybody.
22 A Dr. Igel gave her medication.
23 Q Okay. Tell me what Dr. Igel did.
24 A When she wasn't getting her periods, he gave
25 her the Progesterone test or challenge.
___
p.78 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Q Okay.
2 A I don't believe Dr. Prawer -- well, he gave
3 her -- now, how far are we going back now?
4 Q From the time she started seeing Dr. Prawer,
5 which was on 10/28/87, up to the time --
6 A Okay. You'll have to refer to his records
7 because --
8 Q Okay. I've got his records in front of me.
9 A -- she was on -- when he removed her wart.
10 Q Okay.
11 A He gave her something for pain.
12 Q Okay. Now, first of all, Dr. Igel gave her
13 some Provera or Progesterone to --
14 A It's a challenge to bring on her period.
15 Q Right. I'm going to get back to that, but
16 let me -- let me check with -- first of all, I'm still
17 on medications. I have Dr. Prawer's records in front
18 of me, and let me refer, if I can. Are you aware of
19 anything that Dr. Prawer gave her other than the stuff
20 for her toe?
21 A I can't recall anything, but I'm not saying
22 he did.
23 Q I'm looking at his records, and we also took
24 his deposition. He gave her an inhaler. Do you recall
25 her taking that inhaler? It's called -- it's called
___
p.79 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Beconase, B-e-c-o-n-a-s-e.
2 A Yes. Yes. Yes.
3 Q All right. What problem was she having that
4 she wanted an inhaler?
5 A I believe it was sinus problems.
6 Q Okay. Did she suffer from sinus problems?
7 A Not -- it was very rare.
8 Q Okay. But rarely she did, right?
9 A Rarely she suffered from them.
10 Q Okay.
11 A If I recall right.
12 Q Okay. Also, it's mentioned here that he
13 prescribed Seldane, S-e-l-d-a-n-e. 60 milligrams by
14 mouth twice a day.
15 A Probably with the Beconase, yes, they usually
16 do that.
17 Q Do you recall her taking the Seldane?
18 A Yes, I do.
19 Q How often would she take it?
20 A Whenever Dr. Prawer prescribed it.
21 Q Did she take Seldane from your prescription,
22 too?
23 A No, she did not.
24 Q Did you take Seldane?
25 A I don't -- I don't recall if I got some from
___
p.80 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Dr. Prawer or not.
2 Q What other medications was she taking at all,
3 if you know?
4 A None. Just whatever Dr. Prawer gave her.
5 Q Was she taking any -- were there any other
6 medications in the house that she may have been taking?
7 A No.
8 Q Were you on any medication?
9 A When?
10 Q During this time, let's say, 30 days or so
11 before February 25.
12 A No. That I -- that I can recall.
13 Q Can you recall when the last time she took
14 the Seldane was before February, 1990?
15 A The last time?
16 Q Yes, sir.
17 A I don't even think we had Seldane in the
18 house.
19 Q Okay. So it was all gone by that time?
20 A Whenever he -- Dr. Prawer prescribed it and
21 the refills ran out.
22 Q What other medications were in the house?
23 I'm talking about -- what medications were in the house
24 on February 25, 1990; if you can recall?
25 A Valrelease.
___
p.81 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Q Okay. Whose medication was that?
2 A Mine.
3 Q And what was that for?
4 A Back pain.
5 Q That's a Valium derivative?
6 A Yeah. Yes.
7 Q What else do you recall?
8 A There was Progesterone that Dr. Igel gave
9 her.
10 Q Okay.
11 A And I think there was some left-over Tylenol
12 Three from when he gave her for her toe, or whatever
13 that was, pain medicine.
14 Q Percocet?
15 A Might have been it, yeah.
16 Q Anything else?
17 A Nope. Nothing. Vitamins.
18 Q Where did your wife have her medications
19 filled?
20 A At -- we had to use the Walgreen's.
21 Q Okay. I had asked if you -- do you have any
22 of those bottles left, any prescription bottles either
23 for the Progesterone or the Seldane, anything of that
24 nature?
25 A I have the Progesterone at home.
___
p.82 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 3
1 Q Okay. Was that filled at Walgreen's?
2 A I believe so.
3 Q Okay.
4 A It was a Walgreen's on --
5 Q You didn't bring any of the bottles with you?
6 A No, I did not.
7 MS. HARWELL: We can get them to you.
8 MR. DEACON: Okay. Would you do that?
9 Because
10 according to Walgreen's, they don't have any
11 record of
12 anything being filled there.
13 THE DEPONENT: It was a Walgreen's right by
14 Duhme
15 Road. We had to go all the way up there to get
16 them.
17 MR. DEACON: Okay. If you could do that, I'd
18 appreciate it. Okay.
19 MS. HARWELL: Sure.
20 Q (By Mr. Deacon) I had cut you off when you
21 were talking about things that your wife was seeing Dr.
22 Prawer for. Do you remember anything else other than
23 what you had already recounted, and that was the
24 lightheaded and dizziness, warts, the lump on the
25 breast.
___
p.83 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A And with the irregular periods around the
2 attack -- around a couple of months before the attack.
3 Q Tell me about that, what -- how was that
4 brought to your attention that she was having irregular
5 periods?
6 A She told me.
7 Q What did she tell you?
8 A Well, she missed a period and we thought she
9 was pregnant. She went to the doctor, and from there
10 it was downhill from there with the periods.
11 Q Okay. Do you remember how long that was
12 before her attack?
13 A Approximately four to five months before.
14 Q I have a note from Dr. Prawer's record, this
15 is just to refresh your recollection, if I can, that
16 your wife went to see him concerned that she might be
17 pregnant, that her last menstrual period was May 1 of
18 '89, does that sound about right?
19 A I don't recall that happening.
20 Q Were you trying to get pregnant -- was she
21 trying to get pregnant?
22 A We were -- we were -- like four or five
23 months we were going to start trying to have kids
24 Q Okay. Up to that time, as far as you know,
25 she had not had problems with irregular periods?
___
p.84 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A I'm sorry, say that again.
2 Q Up to that time, which would have been
3 sometime in May of '89, do you recall her having any
4 problems with menstrual periods?
5 A No.
6 Q She never mentioned to you the fact that she
7 was having any problems?
8 A No.
9 Q How was her health otherwise, other than the
10 fact that she had these dizzy spells?
11 A I'm not a doctor, but to me, she looked like
12 my wife.
13 Q Okay. She looked healthy?
14 A You could say so, yeah.
15 Q Okay. During this time, particularly I'm
16 concerned about, say, from the summer or late spring of
17 1989 to the time she had her attack in 1990, how was
18 her health? How did she appear other than these dizzy
19 spells?
20 A Sometimes she would look drawn, but other
21 than that, she -- I mean, like I said, I'm not a doctor
22 and she looked fine to me.
23 Q Tell me, what do you mean by sometimes she
24 looked drawn?
25 A Well, she lost the weight, some weight.
___
p.85 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Okay. According to my records, she saw Dr.
2 Prawer four times, and her weight varied from 119 --
3 I'm sorry, from 120 to a 123 and a half pounds, or
4 three and a half pounds. Was she having a fluctuation
5 in that period of time?
6 A From what month to what month?
7 Q I'm talking about from -- let me see, from
8 March -- I'm sorry, yeah, from February 27, 1989 until
9 February 2nd, 1990, she was weighed each time she went
10 to see him, and --
11 A So what was your question?
12 Q My question is did she have weight
13 fluctuations during that period of time, that year
14 before she had her attack?
15 A I don't recall, I mean, any drastic
16 fluctuations. I mean, I don't recall.
17 Q I'm talking about for the year prior to
18 her --
19 A I know.
20 Q -- to her attack.
21 A I don't -- to me she looked like my wife.
22 Q Okay. Did she seem to you, for that year
23 period of time from February of '89 to February of '90,
24 to have a fairly constant weight?
25 A Like I said, I don't recall.
___
p.86 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q When you say she looked drawn sometimes, what
2 do you mean by that? I don't know what that expression
3 means.
4 A Her face, she would lose weight in her face.
5 Q What kind of activities did she do? In other
6 words, you mentioned some of the things she liked to
7 do; was she into athletics at all?
8 A No. No.
9 Q Did she exercise?
10 A No.
11 Q Did she go to spa at all?
12 A No.
13 Q You mentioned she -- that you were trying to
14 get pregnant, right?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q So you had stopped using birth control?
17 A Right.
18 Q And there was a time when she missed a period
19 and she felt she might be pregnant; is that right?
20 A Right. Right before the incident, a couple
21 months before.
22 Q Okay. When you say she looked drawn and had
23 lost some weight, did you ever have any conversations
24 with Dr. Prawer, who was her family doctor?
25 A Not that I can recall, no.
___
p.87 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Now, you were seeing him, too; were you not?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you ever mention to Dr. Prawer that you
4 felt that your wife looked drawn?
5 A I might have. I don't recall.
6 Q Okay. Did you ever have any conversations
7 with the Schindlers? Did they visit with their
8 daughter quite a bit while you were at work? You
9 mentioned the fact that she'd go see them and talk to
10 them.
11 A She would visit, you know, not every day, but
12 she would visit two or three times a week when I was at
13 work.
14 Q Did they ever have any conversations with
15 you, Mike, we're concerned about Terry because she
16 looks drawn or she's not eating, or drinking too much
17 iced tea, or whatever?
18 A No.
19 Q They never said anything to you?
20 A We all thought she looked like Terry. We all
21 thought that was Terry.
22 Q Okay. You all thought she looked good?
23 A To us she looked like Terry.
24 Q Did you ever have any conversations at all at
25 any time during this time up to the time of the attack
___
p.88 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 with Dr. Igel?
2 A No.
3 Q You never spoke with -- did you ever speak
4 with Dr. Igel?
5 A No.
6 Q Did -- talking about the Schindlers, did they
7 ever say anything to you about the fact that she had
8 any kind of eating disorder when she was young, before
9 you met her?
10 A Never mentioned it to me, no.
11 Q I think you mentioned you never spoke to Dr.
12 Igel at all, right, at any time?
13 A I don't recall speaking to Dr. Igel.
14 Q Did you -- was your wife seeing any other
15 doctors from the time that you got to Florida to the
16 time that she had her attack other than Dr. Igel or Dr.
17 Prawer?
18 A No.
19 Q Was she continuing to drink large quantities
20 of iced tea all during this time as far as you can see?
21 A As far as I can recall, yes.
22 Q How would she drink it, would she make a
23 bunch of it up and drink it, or would she have it in
24 the cans or what?
25 A In cans. She would make it by the glass.
___
p.89 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Did you ever say to her, you ought to, you
2 know, cut that out or, you know, that might be bad for
3 her?
4 A Not that I recall.
5 Q All right. Now, you mentioned the fact that
6 she went to see Dr. Igel because -- well, why did she
7 go see Dr. Igel as far as you know?
8 A As far as I know, Dr. Prawer referred her.
9 Q And why was it, as far as you know, that Dr.
10 Prawer referred her to Dr. Igel?
11 A Because she missed a period.
12 Q And did she tell you anything that she and
13 Dr. Igel may have talked about with regard to that?
14 A Say that one again.
15 Q Did she have any conversations with you as to
16 what she and Dr. Igel may have talked about regarding
17 her missing periods?
18 A As far as her telling me, they were -- she
19 wasn't pregnant. He kept telling her she wasn't
20 pregnant.
21 Q Okay. Do you know what it was he did for
22 her, if anything?
23 A No, I don't.
24 Q Well, you know that he gave her a
25 prescription for Progesterone.
___
p.90 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A I'm sorry, he did -- he gave her the
2 Progesterone challenge.
3 Q Okay. Did she say what that was for, why he
4 was giving her Progesterone challenge?
5 A To help bring her period on.
6 Q And what did that do?
7 A It did nothing.
8 Q Did she have a period?
9 A She -- she wouldn't have a period, but she
10 had a few drops and that was it; very minute.
11 Q If, in fact, she had a -- a bleed of one and
12 a half days, would that be about right?
13 A She had a what?
14 Q A bleed -- a menstrual period of one and a
15 half days.
16 A I don't recall that.
17 Q Okay. Let me go to just before the last time
18 she saw Dr. Igel, according to my information, was on
19 February the 2nd, 1990; do you recall that?
20 A Sounds familiar.
21 Q And do you recall what he did for her at that
22 time? This is -- this was the month of her attack.
23 A I think he gave -- she had a infection and he
24 gave her some medicine for it.
25 Q Okay. He gave her some medicine for a
___
p.91 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 vaginal infection?
2 A Yes, but he didn't know what kind of
3 infection it was, he just gave her the medicine.
4 Q Did he also give her anything for missed
5 periods?
6 A And I do believe that's when he gave her a
7 full prescription for Progesterone, take for the whole
8 month, because of not getting her period.
9 Q Okay. Let me first refer to the vaginal
10 infection. What did the medication that he gave for
11 the vaginal infection do, if anything?
12 A It burnt her inside. She had a reaction to
13 it.
14 Q Okay. Do you know what that cream was?
15 A Triple Sulfur.
16 Q Triple Sulfa?
17 A Yeah, that's the way --
18 Q Same thing. And she had a reaction to that?
19 A Yes.
20 Q What level, what type or what happened?
21 A She was severely inflamed.
22 Q And what did she do with regard to that?
23 A She -- when it started reacting, she called
24 the doctor. The nurse told her the doctor's not in and
25 there's nothing they can do, try to wash it out.
___
p.92 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Okay. Did she remain inflamed after that?
2 A Yes, and I -- she did, and I believe she
3 called the doctor's office again. I mean, I don't
4 recall if she did, but she called the dock -- I think
5 she did and they told her to use a douche.
6 Q Okay.
7 A Her nurse, the nurse.
8 Q Okay. Did the infection resolve before she
9 had her attack?
10 A No.
11 Q She was still infected?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Still -- did she still have a re -- was she
14 still having a reaction to the cream at that time?
15 A Yes. She wasn't using the cream.
16 Q I understand she quit using it.
17 A Yeah, but the reaction was still there.
18 Q Was she taking any other medications at that
19 time?
20 A No.
21 Q None at all?
22 A None at all. Just the Progesterone that he
23 prescribed, but she didn't even get a chance to take
24 that.
25 Q How about that, the Progesterone; she didn't
___
p.93 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 take it?
2 A No, because she had the attack.
3 Q He prescribed it when?
4 A I don't know.
5 Q I got he prescribed it on February 2nd.
6 A Okay. And she probably wasn't supposed to
7 take it until after -- towards the end of the month, if
8 I recall right; that's the way she was supposed to take
9 it.
10 Q Did she have a period between the time that
11 she saw him and the time she had the attack?
12 A No, she did not.
13 MR. DEACON: I have got a consult note, and
14 I, for the life of me, don't know who wrote it
15 yet. It has a statement in it LMP, two weeks ago
16 with pills. I'll show it to you, Heather, right
17 there. And it's dated 2/25.
18 MS. HARWELL: That looks like a nurses thing.
19 MR. DEACON: Well, I thought it was, too.
20 Off the record. Well, you can stay on the record.
21 I thought this was a nurses note at first until it
22 basically tells -- you know, talks about
23 consulting with other doctors. But so I -- I
24 don't have an author for this yet.
25 THE DEPONENT: When was it dated?
___
p.94 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 MR. DEACON: 2/25 at the top.
2 THE DEPONENT: That was the date of the
3 accident.
4 MR. DEACON: Yes, I know.
5 MS. HARWELL: If you let me copy that, I'll
6 try and track down the writing; maybe I can
7 compare it.
8 MR. DEACON: Sure. You can have that, go
9 right ahead. I'll tell you what, let me keep
10 this, I want to ask a couple of questions, and
11 then when we get done, we'll go ahead and get it
12 copied.
13 MS. HARWELL: Okay.
14 MR. DEACON: It should be part of the medical
15 records, so you should probably have that.
16 Q (By Mr. Deacon) Do you recall her having a
17 menstrual period two weeks before?
18 A No, she did not.
19 Q Okay. So do you know where that information
20 would come from?
21 A No, I don't.
22 Q Let me just ask you this question and then
23 we'll get back to some things. When you went to the
24 hospital with her, did other members of the family go
25 there, too?
___
p.95 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A Yes.
2 Q Her mother?
3 A Her mother, father, her brother.
4 Q Okay. Did you talk to the doctors?
5 A Uh-huh.
6 Q Do you remember what doctors you talked to?
7 A Dr. Shah.
8 Q Okay. And any other doctors you recall
9 talking to?
10 A The -- you mean right after it happened?
11 Q Yeah.
12 A The emergency room doctor, but he just came
13 out and told us she was moving.
14 Q There's some other doctors mentioned also
15 that were in some consultations that this -- ask if you
16 remember talking to any of them. Dr. Ravindra,
17 R-a-v-i-n-d-r-a; do you remember her?
18 A No, I don't remember her.
19 Q Dr. Hakki, H-a-k-k-i; do you remember him?
20 A Huh-uh.
21 Q Dr. DeSousa, D-e-S-o-u-s-a.
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q You did talk to him?
24 A He was the neurologist.
25 Q Okay. You did talk to him?
___
p.96 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A Oh, yeah.
2 Q Dr. Suskanong, S-u-s-k-a-n-o-n-g.
3 A Sounds familiar.
4 Q Infectious disease specialist?
5 A Yes. Little lady, yes.
6 Q Yes, little lady. Dr. Pascual?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Dr. Gaines, neurosurgeon?
9 A Sounds familiar, yeah. No, I didn't talk to
10 him, no; he came in late one night.
11 Q Okay. Dr. Jain, J-a-i-n?
12 A Dr. Jain.
13 Q Is that how you pronounce her name?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q Gynecologist.
16 A Uh-huh.
17 Q And Dr. Jacob.
18 A Dr. Jacob, what's he do?
19 Q I don't remember him, to be honest with you.
20 However -- all right.
21 A Yes, I do, Dr. Jacob, yes.
22 Q Okay. We were talking about things that Dr.
23 Igel had done for your wife prior to her attack. Other
24 than giving her the Progesterone and the cream for the
25 vaginal infection, what do you recall, if anything?
___
p.97 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A I'm sorry?
2 Q What do you recall Dr. Igel doing for your
3 wife other than the Progesterone and the vaginal cream?
4 A He did nothing for her.
5 Q Okay. Nothing more than that?
6 A Nothing more than that, as far as my
7 knowledge.
8 Q To your knowledge. Okay. And I think you
9 mentioned the fact that other than the vaginal cream
10 she was not taking any other medications that you know
11 about?
12 A Nothing.
13 Q Did your wife wear tampons?
14 A No, she did the pad.
15 Q Okay. did you talk to Dr. Prawer at any time
16 before your wife had her attack, about your wife, not
17 about your problems.
18 A No, I don't recall talking to him.
19 Q What were you seeing Dr. Prawer for?
20 A I hurt my back one time, and my stomach
21 problem.
22 Q What was your stomach problem?
23 A I had -- what do they call it, IBS, it's
24 irritable bowel.
25 Q Were you seeing any other doctors beside Dr.
___
p.98 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Prawer?
2 A His associate, I seen Dr. Mitchell.
3 Q In the same office?
4 A No. Different offices.
5 Q Oh, okay. In other words, Dr. Prawer has
6 partners --
7 A Dr. Prawer has a separate office along with
8 his other office.
9 Q Right. Who else did you see beside Dr.
10 Mitchell?
11 A Nobody. I don't recall anybody else.
12 Q Okay. Let me go to the day of the attack,
13 and I understand that was 2/25/90; is that correct?
14 A Correct.
15 Q What had you done the night before?
16 A I was at work.
17 Q And I understand that 2/25/90 was a Sunday;
18 is that right?
19 A Right. Correct. Right.
20 Q And what do you recall about that morning?
21 A Of the incident?
22 Q Yes, I'm sorry. What time had you gotten in?
23 A I didn't get in until like 12:30, something
24 like that, 1:00. We had late parties that day at the
25 restaurant.
___
p.99 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Was your wife awake when you got in?
2 A No.
3 Q Did you talk to her at all before you went to
4 bed?
5 A She said good night to me.
6 Q Okay. In other words, you went -- you
7 crawled in bed and she said good night?
8 A Yep.
9 Q What's the next thing you recall after that?
10 A Next thing I recall is I'm getting out of bed
11 for some reason, and I heard her fall and hit the
12 floor.
13 Q You were getting out of bed?
14 A For some reason.
15 Q How far is the bed from the place where she
16 fell?
17 A About seven feet.
18 Q What kind of floor are we talking about,
19 carpeted or --
20 A Carpeted, yes.
21 Q Okay. And where was it that she fell?
22 A In the hallway outside the bathroom door.
23 Q Were her feet still in the bathroom?
24 A I don't recall if they were or not; I don't
25 think so.
___
p.100 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Could you tell whether or not from where she
2 was positioned if she had -- was coming from the
3 bathroom?
4 A I couldn't tell.
5 Q Was the bathroom light on?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Is it normally kept on overnight?
8 A No, it's not.
9 Q Would it then be fair to assume that she had
10 turned it on?
11 A She would have to, yes.
12 Q Okay. Was there any sound in the bathroom
13 that you heard, either before or after you -- after she
14 fell that would indicate that she might have been using
15 either the sink or the toilet in the bathroom?
16 A No sounds at all.
17 Q How was she dressed?
18 A She had a night shirt on with pants, with --
19 Q Underpants?
20 A I think they were sweat pants.
21 Q Oh, okay. Sweat pants?
22 A Yeah.
23 Q Was the night shirt something she would have
24 slept in?
25 A Yes. Yeah.
___
p.101 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q How about the sweat pants?
2 A She slept in them.
3 Q She slept in sweat pants and a night shirt?
4 A Oh, yeah.
5 Q Okay. It's cold in February, oh, yeah.
6 A It's cold.
7 Q So that would have been her sleeping attire?
8 A Some nights, yes.
9 Q Okay. Were there any other lights on that
10 you noticed beside the bathroom light?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What other light?
13 A It was just a night light that we have out in
14 the kitchen that goes on when it gets dark.
15 Q Okay. That wasn't one that someone would
16 have turned on?
17 A No. No.
18 Q Other than that, were there any other lights
19 on?
20 A No.
21 Q Did you hear her when she got out of bed?
22 A No, I did not.
23 Q Do you know why she got out of bed?
24 A Looks like she was doing something with the
25 cats.
___
p.102 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q You had some cats?
2 A Uh-huh.
3 Q That's a yes?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Were the cats in the house at the
6 time?
7 A Yes.
8 Q How many cats did you have?
9 A Two.
10 Q You said something with the cats, what do you
11 mean by that, playing with them or letting them out or
12 what?
13 A Could be. No. They were indoor cats.
14 Q Okay. Why do you say it looks like she was
15 doing something with the cats?
16 A Because they both came walking out of the
17 bathroom when I ran out there.
18 Q Oh, okay.
19 A They could have jumped over her or whatever.
20 I don't know if she was doing something with the cats
21 or not.
22 Q Oh, okay.
23 A It just looked to be like she was.
24 Q Now, what -- when you saw her, do you know
25 what time it was?
___
p.103 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A I believe it was almost five a.m..
2 Q When you saw her, how was she lying; in other
3 words, on her back or --
4 A On her back.
5 Q Did she make any sound at all before she fell
6 that you heard?
7 A No, not -- I didn't hear any sounds before
8 she fell.
9 Q What did you do, then, after you --
10 A After she fell?
11 Q After you found her in hallway.
12 A I was -- I was to her within two seconds. I
13 seen she stopped breathing, I ran to the phone, called
14 911 within five seconds and panicked.
15 Q What did you do, then, after that?
16 A I went over to her, I -- I thought maybe --
17 I just started talking to her and holding her; I didn't
18 know what to do.
19 Q Did you try any CPR?
20 A No.
21 Q You mentioned you saw that she stopped
22 breathing. What did you do?
23 A When she stopped breathing?
24 Q No. No. No. How did you determine that,
25 that she had stopped breathing?
___
p.104 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A Because I felt her chest and I heard her gasp
2 once, you know, and --
3 Q Okay. Then what happened?
4 A I immediately went over and called 911.
5 Q Okay. After -- after 911 and after you were
6 holding her, what was -- what then happened, was the
7 next thing that happened?
8 A I laid Terry down, I went over and called
9 my -- I remember my brother-in-law lived in the same
10 complex; I called him.
11 Q Called brother-in-law?
12 A Uh-huh.
13 Q What is his name?
14 A Robert.
15 Q Schindler?
16 A Correct.
17 Q And what happened then, who came first?
18 A He was there within minutes, within -- I'm
19 sorry, seconds, because he just lived right around the
20 corner, and as soon as he came up, the paramedics
21 pulled up.
22 Q How long did it take the paramedics to get
23 there?
24 A Four minutes, five minutes; at the most, six,
25 seven minutes.
___
p.105 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q What did you and Robert do, if anything --
2 A Nothing.
3 Q -- before the paramedics got there?
4 A Nothing we could do. I didn't know what to
5 do.
6 Q Okay. And then what happened? It's my
7 understanding that the fire department got there first
8 and then the paramedics came; do you recall that?
9 A I don't recall that at all.
10 Q Okay.
11 A I'm sorry, yeah, the fire department -- the
12 paramedic fire department --
13 Q Right.
14 A -- got there first.
15 Q Right. And what happened then?
16 A They looked her over and started CPR and --
17 Q Okay.
18 A And I went out and I was just spastic in the
19 living room.
20 Q Were there any medications kept in the
21 bathroom?
22 A None.
23 Q Where did you keep your medications?
24 A In the kitchen cabinet in the little bin we
25 had.
___
p.106 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q And what medications were present? And you
2 might have mentioned it before, but on that date.
3 A On that date, the Valrelease, the Percocet, I
4 think, or --
5 Q Or Tylenol?
6 A Tylenol, whatever it was.
7 Q Anything else?
8 A Not that I can recall.
9 Q What happened then? How long were the
10 paramedics there, as far as you can recall.
11 administering to your wife?
12 A I don't recall. It was just -- they were
13 there working on her for a while.
14 Q And then what happened?
15 A And then the ambulance got there and they
16 transported her to Humana, and I even think the
17 paramedics went with her.
18 Q Did you then go to Humana?
19 A I went with them, yes.
20 Q Okay. What other family members were there?
21 You mentioned -- I forget.
22 A My mother-in-law, father-in-law and
23 brother-in-law.
24 Q Okay.
25 A And my sister-in-law came down from Orlando.
___
p.107 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q You mentioned the fact that you had
2 conversations with certain of the consultants in
3 addition to Dr. Shah. Do you recall specifically on
4 that day --
5 A Specifically on the 25th?
6 Q On the 25th what they might have said to you
7 regarding what had happened to Terry?
8 A The only person I talked to on the 25th was
9 Dr. Shah.
10 Q Okay. Did you have any conversation with him
11 that you can recall as to what had happened to Terry?
12 A No. We were all -- he was still looking for
13 problems.
14 Q Okay.
15 A It was early into the thing, and then I
16 didn't see him again for a while.
17 Q Okay. Let's now stay with the time that
18 she's in Humana Hospital. You've had some
19 conversations with not only Dr. Shah, but also some of
20 the consultants; is that correct?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Not from a medical point of view, but
23 from what you might recall, do you recall what any of
24 them told you might have happened to Terry and why?
25 A No. At the time?
___
p.108 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Yeah. I'm talking about while she was --
2 A Any time?
3 Q While she was in Humana Hospital.
4 A Any period that --
5 Q Any period of time she was in Humana
6 Hospital.
7 A Yes. People did -- I'm sorry, people did
8 tell me what they thought might have happened to Terry.
9 Q Okay. What -- first of all, if you can
10 identify who those people are, and secondly, what they
11 told you.
12 A Dr. Shah's assistant --
13 Q And who was that?
14 A God. Dr. Patel.
15 Q Okay. And what did he say?
16 A I'm trying to remember. Was it Dr. Patel?
17 Q Assume that it was. Maybe it wasn't, but
18 what were you told?
19 A That everything looked like that Terry was
20 bulimic.
21 Q Okay. Did you know what bulimia was at the
22 time when you had this conversation with him?
23 A Oh, yeah. I've heard of it before.
24 Q Okay. And do you know what you meant when he
25 said it looked like Terry was bulimic?
___
p.109 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A He said the signs it looked like, but I
2 didn't know what the signs were.
3 Q Did he tell you what they were?
4 A As a matter of fact, no, he didn't.
5 Q Did he say why it was he felt that way?
6 A I guess because of the albumin level and
7 potassium level.
8 Q Did you have any indication yourself during
9 all the time that you were dating and then married to
10 Terry that she in any way was binging and purging?
11 A I had no -- no, none whatsoever.
12 Q Did you ever see her binge; in other words,
13 eat an enormous quantity of food?
14 A I've seen her eat an enormous quantity of
15 food, but never binge, never purge.
16 Q Okay. What kind of -- when you say she'd eat
17 an enormous quantity of food, what kind of a quantity
18 are we talking about?
19 A Like I say, she would get up on Sundays and
20 make herself a huge omelette and eat it, or we'd get
21 pizza and she'd eat a lot of that. I mean, she ate
22 normally in front of me every time we ate.
23 Q Okay. I think you already mentioned there
24 was -- you never had to say to her, Terry, you need to
25 eat a more balanced diet, or you need to eat regularly?
___
p.110 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A No. I -- I never said that to her, no.
2 Q What did you say to her?
3 A I told her maybe once or twice to her, you
4 know, you're losing a little too much weight now, you
5 know, why don't you --
6 Q How did you feel about her weight? By this I
7 mean, you know, you dated her and you married her when
8 she weighed something around 145 pounds, and then she
9 was now, at this period of time, weighing in the area
10 of 120. What was your feeling with regard to her
11 weight one way or another?
12 A I -- I never really thought about it that
13 much. You know, I -- you know, Terry was my wife, I
14 didn't marry her because of her weight, you know, I --
15 I never really noticed -- I mean, a real decline in her
16 weight. I mean, she would lose weight and then she
17 would gain it and she would -- you know, and I never
18 paid attention to it. I didn't think I had to.
19 Q Well, no. No. No. I was basically asking
20 you if you had a preference with regard to weight, how
21 you liked her. Some guys like, you know, women who are
22 real thin and some guys like women --
23 A It didn't matter to me.
24 Q -- you know, who have got some meat on their
25 bones, you know.
___
p.111 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A It didn't matter to me. I married Terry
2 because I loved Terry because of her personality and
3 Terry.
4 Q So her weight was of not real concern to you;
5 is that correct?
6 A Correct. Sorry.
7 Q Did anyone else there make any comment to you
8 with regard to Terri's condition and why they felt she
9 was like she was?
10 A At the hospital?
11 Q Yes, sir. You mentioned Dr. Patel and what
12 he had said.
13 A Like I said, I'm not sure it's Dr. Patel.
14 Q Okay. I'm sorry, maybe, how's that.
15 A Maybe.
16 Q I'll put a big question mark there. How's
17 that?
18 A No, I don't remember. I really don't
19 remember. That was a long time ago.
20 Q Okay. Well, let me ask you this question.
21 Has anyone up to this date said to you, other than your
22 lawyers or consultants hired by your lawyers, you know,
23 other than the people, you know, that your lawyers have
24 told me are going to be their expert witnesses at
25 trial, has anyone told you other than those people why
___
p.112 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 it was in their opinion Terry had this arrest or attack
2 on the morning of February 25, 1990?
3 A Outside of lawyers?
4 Q Outside of lawyers and people hired by
5 lawyers.
6 A And doctors and nurses, no. No. Everybody
7 was dumbfounded on the whole thing.
8 Q The only restriction I had to that was the
9 people who were hired by your lawyers. In other words,
10 you know, the doctors hired by your lawyers, but I'm
11 talking about any treating physician, anybody at
12 Mediplex or at Palms or at Bayfront or at --
13 A I mean, it was the talk -- I mean, nurses
14 have come up to me and said, you know, we hear Terry
15 was a bulimic, or they thought she was bulimic. It's
16 in the records.
17 Q Yeah, I've seen those.
18 A How about her friends, have you talked to
19 them after the fact, people -- like you mentioned
20 Jackie Adams and I forgot the names you had there, but
21 Terry Welch and Mary Ann, Sue Schwartz, how about those
22 people, have you talked to them since that?
23 A They -- in the hospital when they came to
24 visit. And they were, you know --
25 Q What did they say?
___
p.113 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 A -- confused but, you know, they thought -- as
2 they went on and thought about things, they -- they
3 can't -- they couldn't figure it out.
4 Q What do they tell you about her eating habits
5 when you weren't with her, because they were with her
6 during the day and you weren't?
7 A Well, they said they would go out to lunch or
8 breakfast and Terry would just drink orange juice.
9 They'd go out to lunch, but she'd eat but then when
10 she'd come back to the office, she would quick run to
11 the bathroom. But that could mean anything. Nobody
12 had ever thought anything of it.
13 Q Did they ever indicate to you that they knew
14 that she had any kind of eating disorder?
15 A No. They never indicated that to me.
16 Q Okay. Well, have you ever come upon your
17 wife at any time throwing up?
18 A No.
19 Q From the time that Terry went in until today,
20 other than what you've already told me with regard to
21 her condition, has her condition in any way changed
22 other tn what you've told me before about her opening
23 her eyes and getting some response to noise?
24 A Like I said before, no. If there's any
25 change, very minutely.
___
p.114 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Where did you get your prescriptions filled?
2 A Walgreen's.
3 Q Other than milk products and lettuce, did
4 your wife have any allergies or intolerances? Sulfa,
5 we know about that one. Other than that one, too.
6 A No. My mother-in-law would know this one.
7 Q Okay. Well, if she's going to --
8 A What was the other one she was allergic to?
9 Q I'll talk to her when --
10 A Benadryl.
11 Q Benadryl?
12 A Yeah.
13 Q Now that you look back at it, you know,
14 talking to Dr. Patel, or whoever it was, and the nurses
15 and maybe the friends, do you now recall any times with
16 regard to Terry, and I realize you weren't with her a
17 lot, you know, due to the fact that you were working
18 different -- you know, different shifts, that there was
19 evidence in her behavior of being bulimic?
20 A One time that I can remember is we were
21 sitting at home and we just had dinner, and she said
22 she was going to go to the bathroom, and she went into
23 the bathroom and she turned all the water on. So I get
24 curious and I went up to her and I said, Terry, what
25 are you doing? She said, well, it's just cold in here.
___
p.115 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 I'm just trying to warm the place up, and I just left
2 it at that because that was that. I thought, well,
3 maybe she is warming the place up, you know.
4 Q What time of year was that?
5 A It had to be in the cold time.
6 Q Okay. Anything other than that?
7 A Just stuff that my family would notice.
8 Q Like what?
9 A when my aunt and uncle were here, they went
10 out to -- I was at work and they went to dinner, and
11 she ate. My aunt said she got up and went to the
12 bathroom, came back and she was pure white. I didn't
13 think anything of it.
14 Q That's when they went out to dinner?
15 A Yeah. She didn't think anything, you know.
16 she thought, well, maybe she was just not feeling good.
17 Q Okay.
18 A But, you know, as time went on, everybody
19 starts to think about this stuff.
20 Q What are your aunt's and uncle's names?
21 A Richard and Carol.
22 Q Schiavo?
23 A Schiavo, yes.
24 Q And where do they live?
25 A New Jersey.
___
p.116 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Whereabouts?
2 A Medford.
3 Q This is going to be a very hard question for
4 me to ask you, but basically do you blame your wife for
5 what happened to her?
6 A No, I do not.
7 Q Why is that?
8 A I just don't blame her.
9 Q Okay.
10 A I mean, I don't --
11 Q I'm not trying to get you to --
12 A Well, let's just leave it at that. I don't
13 blame her.
14 Q Okay. What do you feel -- what do you
15 personally feel was the cause of her problem; if you
16 knew? I mean, if you feel -- if you have any feelings
17 in that regard.
18 A I feel that there's something -- there was
19 something wrong with Terry, and she was trying to get
20 some help and people just ignored her.
21 Q What people?
22 A Just doctors in general. My personal
23 opinion.
24 Q In what way?
25 A In a way maybe she was trying to tell
___
p.117 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 somebody she had an eating disorder and nobody wanted
2 to pay attention.
3 Q Okay.
4 A I don't know.
5 Q Okay.
6 A That's my own personal opinion on it.
7 Q But you never suspected she had an eating
8 disorder; is that right; is that correct?
9 A Never.
10 Q Never. And have you talked to her parents as
11 to whether or not they ever suspected she had an eating
12 disorder?
13 A Yes, we did, but they never suspected it
14 either, as far as I know.
15 Q Okay. And you saw her daily?
16 A No, I didn't see her daily.
17 Q Well, I'm sorry, that's right, but you saw
18 her weekly anyway?
19 A I seen her weekly, yes.
20 Q And you slept in the same bed?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Let me ask you the same question, do you
23 blame yourself at all for not recognizing the fact that
24 she's had this problem?
25 A I did.
___
p.118 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Do you anymore?
2 A No. No.
3 Q Has your wife been seen by any other
4 physicians other than the ones we've talked about? And
5 I'm -- and let me tell you what I know about. I know
6 she saw the doctors at Humana; I know she saw the
7 doctors back up in Pennsylvania, Drs. Ickler, Winer and
8 Werther; I know she saw Dr. Igel; Dr. Prawer; all the
9 doctors and consultants at Humana; the doctor at
10 Mediplex; the doctor at Sable Palms; the doctor at
11 College Harbor and the doctors at Palms of Pasadena
12 Hospital when she was, you know, living at home with
13 you. Were there any other physicians that you know
14 about that she saw?
15 A Just the one orthopedic doctor that took her
16 toe off, or the -- orthopedic, is that what they are?
17 Q Yeah, probably. That would be what they
18 would be, right.
19 A Yeah, you'll have to get the name from --
20 Q There was a mention, as Mr. Woodworth
21 indicated earlier when we were talking about Dr.
22 Prawer's records, of her seeing a Dr. Osher who was an
23 orthopedic doctor. Do you recall anything about that
24 at all?
25 A I don't remember him at all.
___
p.119 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 Q Okay.
2 A In Humana?
3 Q This is Humana Med First note I've got here,
4 so I'm just referring to --
5 A I don't know what Humana Med First is.
6 Q Okay. Assume it's a walk-in clinic, okay.
7 but you don't know anything about that, right?
8 A That is his other office, Humana, with Dr.
9 Mitchell and Dr. Shah.
10 Q Okay. Do you recall a time at any -- was
11 your wife ever taking any diuretics that you can
12 recall?
13 A No, she was not.
14 MR. DEACON: I'm almost done, I promise.
15 Okay. I am done. The only thing I want you to
16 do, if you would, and I had requested this, is if
17 you happen to have -- do you have any photographs
18 of your wife just for my benefit?
19 MS. HARWELL: The Schindlers are going to
20 bring lots of them in tonight.
21 MR. DEACON: Great.
22 MS. HARWELL: And we've got these.
23 MR. DEACON: Good. I just wanted to see.
24 And also --
25 THE DEPONENT: What kind of photographs do
___
p.120 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 you want?
2 MR. DEACON: I just wanted to see what she
3 looked like, what she looked like now and what she
4 looked like then. And a question also was --
5 THE DEPONENT: That was graduation.
6 MR. DEACON: Okay.
7 MS. HARWELL: We don't -- the Schindlers have
8 some after she went into the coma.
9 MR. DEACON: Okay. Good.
10 THE DEPONENT: This is her young years; this
11 is Terry right here.
12 MR. DEACON: Okay.
13 THE DEPONENT: This is when we got married.
14 This is her right after we got married; it was her
15 birthday three weeks after we got married.
16 MR. DEACON: Okay.
17 THE DEPONENT: And this is her on 1/17/87.
18 MR. DEACON: Okay.
19 THE DEPONENT: And that was her.
20 MR. DEACON: Okay. This date is when?
21 MS. HARWELL: That's the company picnic you
22 were --
23 THE DEPONENT: Yeah, I'm trying to remember.
24 it was like '88 maybe.
25 MR. DEACON: Okay. And you were going to
___
p.121 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 supply to your lawyer copies of any medical
2 containers --
3 THE DEPONENT: Yeah, I'll bring -- you know,
4 I think I still have them at home.
5 MR. DEACON: Okay. Whatever you've got at
6 home, I appreciate it. That's all I have. Do you
7 want to tell him about reading and waiving?
8 MS. HARWELL: We better sign it.
9 (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at
10 12:30 p.m.)
11 I have read the foregoing pages 1 through
12 114, inclusive, and herewith subscribe to same as a
13 correct transcription of the answers made by me to the
14 questions therein recorded, subject to corrections
15 thereof.
16
17 __________________________________DATE:
_____________________
18 MICHAEL SCHIAVO
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
___
p.122 of MS Depo Med Mal Pt 4
1 STATE OF FLORIDA )
)
2 COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
3 I, TAMMY J. BERKLER, RPR, CM, Notary Public,
4 State of Florida at Large,
5 DO HEREBY CERTIFY, that the foregoing
6 deposition was taken before me at the time and place
7 stated therein; that I administered unto the deponent
8 his oath to testify to the truth, the whole truth, and
9 nothing but the truth; that he was there and then
10 orally examined and testified as herein set forth; that
11 I reported said examination and testimony
12 stenographically, and that this transcript of
13 deposition constitutes a true and correct transcription
14 of the shorthand report of said deposition.
15 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither related
16 to nor employed by any counsel or party to the cause
17 pending, nor interested in the event thereof.
18 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto affixed
19 my hand and official seal this ______ day of August,
20 1992, at Clearwater, Pinellas County, Florida.
21
22
_____________________________
23 ___
TAMMY J. BERKLER, RPR, CM
24 Notary Public
State of Florida at Large
25 My Commission Expires:
486
posted on
03/31/2004 3:05:41 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: pc93
The rest of the depos upon request to me in my mailbox here or
pc93@bellsouth.net .. I tried to post the next one but it was all out of format. Unless someone wants to help so the rest can be posted I don't have the time. Keep in mind that I did type these up so I have spent quite a large amount of time already in that process.
487
posted on
03/31/2004 3:10:19 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: pc93
Thanks for posting that. I'll read it after I get some sleep.
488
posted on
03/31/2004 3:19:16 AM PST
by
BykrBayb
(I'm going to steal my next tagline from someone's post.)
To: FR_addict
and a partridge in a pear tree.
To: Wheee The People
A zealot. I guess that's what I am. For not wanting a illegal guardian to maintain control over his defenseless ward even though he has violated settled guardian law for a number of years, denied her therapy and rehabilitation (which is a RETAINED right), kept her isolated (which is against the law), who has allowed monstrous neglect to occur (also against the law), who has failed to file annual guardianship plans (once again - against the law), who has disobeyed standing court orders, squandered her medical fund and is fathering children with another woman whilst still married to his incapacitated wife. If my having a problem with that makes me a zealot, let the insults fly.
Incidentally, when did it become zealous to defend the lives of disabled human beings?
490
posted on
03/31/2004 3:46:10 AM PST
by
phenn
(http://www.terrisfight.org)
To: pc93
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
2 CASE NO. 92-939-15
3 ----------------------------------X
BARNETT BANK TRUST COMPANY as :
4 Guardian of the Property of :
THERESA SCHIAVO and MICHAEL :
5 SCHIAVO, individually, :
:
6 Plaintiffs, :
:
7 vs. :
:
8 G. STEPHEN IGEL, M.D. :
:
9 Defendant. :
----------------------------------X
10
BEFORE: The Honorable PHILIP A. FEDERICO
11 Circuit Judge
12 PLACE: Courtroom B
Pinellas County Courthouse
13 Clearwater, Florida 34616
14 DATE: November 5, 1992
15 TIME: Commencing at 9:00 A.M.
16 REPORTED BY: JOANNE GERBINO
Deputy Official Court Reporter
17 Sixth Judicial Circuit
State of Florida
18
19 -----------------------------
EXCERPT OF JURY TRIAL
20 TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL RICHARD SCHIAVO
-----------------------------
21
PAGES 1 - 48
22
ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
23 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
315 COURT STREET, ROOM 3
24 CLEARWATER, FLORIDA 34616
(813) 462-4858/(813) 530-6491
25
___
2
1 APPEARANCES: GLENN M. WOODWORTH, ESQUIRE
WOODWORTH & ASSOCIATES,
2 CHARTERED
Wittner Centre West
3 5999 Central Avenue
St. Petersburg, Florida 33710
4 and
GARY D. FOX, ESQUIRE
5 STEWART, TILGHMAN, FOX &
BLANCHI
6 44 West Flagler Street
Suite 1900
7 Miami, Florida 33130-1808
8
9
10 KENNETH C. DEACON, JR., ESQUIRE
HARRIS, BARRETT, MANN & DEW
11 Suite 1500
Southtrust Bank Building
12 150 Second Avenue North
St. Petersburg, Florida 33731
13 Attorney for Defendant
14
15 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS
16 PAGE
17 Direct Examination by Mr. Woodworth 3
18 Cross-Examination by Mr. Deacon 28
19 Redirect Examination by Mr. Woodworth 45
20
21 INDEX OF EXHIBITS
22 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS ID IN EVID
23 #3 - Photo of Terry prior to collapse 24 26
24 #4 - Photo of Terry prior to collapse 24 26
25
___
3
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 * * * * * * *
3 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Moffat.
4 All right. Next witness, please.
5 MR. WOODWORTH: If the Court, please, we'd call
6 our last witness Michael Schiavo.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Schiavo, come forward, please.
8 THE BAILIFF: Sir, please stand here. Face the
9 Clerk. Raise your right hand to take the oath.
10 THEREUPON,
11 MICHAEL SCHIAVO
12 was called as a witness and after having been first duly
13 sworn on oath, was examined and testified as follows:
14 THE BAILIFF: Have a seat in the witness stand.
15 Speak up in a loud and clear voice.
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. WOODWORTH:
18 Q. State your full name, please.
19 A. My name is Michael Richard Schiavo.
20 Q. How old are you?
21 A. Twenty-nine.
22 Q. Where were you born?
23 A. I was born in Levittown, Pennsylvania.
24 Q. Where did you grow up?
25 A. In Levittown, Pennsylvania.
___
4
1 Q. Tell us a little bit about yourself. How many
2 brothers and sisters did you have?
3 A. I have four older brothers. I'm the baby of the
4 family. I did my whole history of schooling up there,
5 elementary, middle and high school, I even went to a year
6 and a half college, Bucks County, Pennsylvania.
7 Q. Michael, speak up so everybody can hear you in
8 the courtroom.
9 A. Sorry.
10 Q. Lousy acoustics.
11 You said you went to college in Pennsylvania?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. Is that where you met Terry?
14 A. Yes, it was.
15 Q. How far into college were you when you all met?
16 A. We were basically into the second semester of
17 college. It's basically a year.
18 Q. How old were you when you met Terry?
19 A. I was twenty-one.
20 Q. How old was Terry?
21 A. Twenty.
22 Q. Did you all start seeing each other and fall in
23 love?
24 A. Yes, we did.
25 Q. How long did you date?
___
5
1 A. We dated approximately five months.
2 Q. Then you got married?
3 A. Then we gotten engaged and we were engaged for a
4 year and a half.
5 Q. Okay. After you got married, did both of you
6 start to work?
7 A. Before we got married we started work.
8 Q. Okay. And did she come to get a job at Prudential
9 Insurance Company up in Pennsylvania?
10 A. Yes, she did.
11 Q. And ultimately did you all decide you wanted to
12 move down to Florida?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How long were you married when you decided to
15 move to Florida?
16 A. Approximately a year.
17 Q. So, did she get a transfer of her job with
18 Prudential and start working for Prudential when you all
19 moved here?
20 A. Yes, she did.
21 Q. When did you move to Florida?
22 A. In April of '86.
23 Q. Did her mom and dad move down shortly after you
24 did?
25 A. I believe it was three months after we did.
___
6
1 Q. How much did Terry weigh when you all got married?
2 A. When we were married she weighed 145 pounds.
3 Q. While you were engaged, did she weigh about that
4 amount or more or less?
5 A. She weighed -- she weighed more when we were
6 engaged.
7 Q. Okay. After you all moved to Florida, did Terry
8 lose more weight?
9 A. Yes, she did.
10 Q. And how far down the weight scale did she go?
11 A. I can remember Terry being about 110, 115 pounds.
12 Q. How did she feel about losing all that weight?
13 How did she feel about herself?
14 A. Terry felt very happy with herself. She was
15 content. She was very excited with herself.
16 Q. So far as you knew was Terry in good health?
17 A. As far as I knew.
18 Q. Tell our jury, if you will, what your impressions
19 of her eating habits were, particularly after you got to
20 Florida. You understand my question?
21 A. No, I don't. Can you rephrase it?
22 Q. What I'm asking, did you notice anything unusual
23 about her eating?
24 A. I noticed some peculiar eating habits, especially
25 on Sunday which was my day off, and she'd make breakfast
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7
1 and she would make a huge omlette, I'm not talking Bob Evans
2 omlette, I'm talking huge omlette, and sit there and eat all
3 of it or we'd order a pizza and she'd eat practically all
4 of it.
5 Q. How about her normal eating habits, if she wasn't
6 eating one of these big Sunday breakfasts or one of these
7 pizzas, did she have any other eating habits that you
8 thought were unusual or peculiar?
9 A. No, she ate normally otherwise.
10 Q. Did you have any indication that Terry had any
11 kind of a psychological problem or a eating disorder as
12 we've heard about during this trial?
13 A. None whatsoever.
14 Q. Tell our jury about her habits of drinking fluids.
15 Did you notice anything unusual about that?
16 A. I noticed she would consume a large amount of
17 iced tea. She would consume close to a gallon of it in
18 one day.
19 Q. Was that like everyday or just once in a while?
20 A. I seen her do it on my day off on Sunday. I spent
21 two or three hours with her during the evening with her and
22 she had a couple glasses of iced tea then. I don't know
23 what she did any other time when I didn't see her.
24 Q. Tell us about her work schedule, let's say, during
25 the period of the year before she had her collapse. Was she
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8
1 working during the day at Prudential?
2 A. Yes, she was.
3 Q. And were you working the night shift, so to speak,
4 or during the evenings as a manager of a restaurant?
5 A. Yes, I was.
6 Q. What restaurant were you the manager of?
7 A. Agastino's Restaurant.
8 Q. Out in Feathersound?
9 A. Feathersound on Ulmerton Road.
10 Q. Okay. So for a while there you all were not
11 spending your schedules on a regular basis together, you
12 were working when she was home and vice versa?
13 A. Correct, we were.
14 Q. Okay. When she lost this weight down into the
15 one hundred twenties, in the hundred, what did you say,
16 eighteens?
17 A. I said between 110 and 115.
18 Q. Did you notice that that caused her to have
19 stretch marks?
20 A. I've noticed stretch marks on her, yes.
21 Q. And did you also notice that her skin was loose
22 on her arms and her legs?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. Did there come a time when you got concerned about
25 the fact that Terry was getting skinnier than you wanted her
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9
1 to be and did you talk to her about it?
2 A. I mentioned it a couple times to her and got to
3 the point where a couple times when she took off her blouse
4 or something at night, I could see her bones, collarbones
5 and shoulder bones would stick out, and I'd mention, Terry,
6 enough is enough, let's gain a little weight now, and that
7 was that.
8 Q. Did you all decide at some point that you wanted
9 to start your family?
10 A. Yes, we did.
11 Q. And in terms of when she first went to see
12 Dr. Igel, let's say in February of 1989, was that about the
13 time you all decided to start your family?
14 A. Could you repeat that for me?
15 Q. When did you decide?
16 A. We decided somewhere, I believe it was in July.
17 Q. Okay. Tell us, if you will, about your knowledge
18 of Terry's menstrual cycle. Did you know that she had an
19 irregular menstrual cycle from time-to-time?
20 A. From which time-to-time, I mean before we were
21 married?
22 Q. Did you know she had an irregular menstrual cycle?
23 I'm sorry for the way I asked the question.
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. Did you know that the whole time you knew her?
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10
1 A. No, no.
2 Q. When did you find out that she had an irregular
3 menstrual cycle?
4 A. When she started seeing the doctor, Dr. Prawer.
5 Q. Okay. And he referred her to Dr. Igel for it?
6 A. Yes, he did.
7 Q. Did you know that when she was a youngster she had
8 an irregular menstrual cycle?
9 A. No, I did not.
10 Q. Did Terry ever go to Dr. Igel thinking she might
11 be pregnant?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What was her reaction when she found out on those
14 occasions that she wasn't pregnant?
15 A. We were both devastated.
16 Q. Do you recall the early morning of February 25th,
17 1990?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. That was the morning early when you woke up to
20 Terry's collapse?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. And the EMS people came?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And finally got her breathing started?
25 A. Yes.
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11
1 Q. And she was taken off to Humana Northside in an
2 ambulance or EMS emergency vehicle?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. All right. When she got there, you went with her?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. Her mom and dad had been called and they went as
7 well?
8 A. They met us there, yes.
9 Q. How long was Terry in that hospital?
10 A. She was from February 25, '90 to May 9th of '90.
11 Q. And did you visit her regularly while she was
12 there?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. In fact, did you stay at that hospital?
15 A. Yes, I did. I stayed there for 16 days and
16 nights straight.
17 Q. And during that period of time, obviously, that
18 was real stressful and difficult for you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You had occasion to talk to your -- to her
21 doctors from time-to-time?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. The main doctor that she had there was who?
24 A. Dr. Shah.
25 Q. S-H-A-H?
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12
1 A. Correct, yes.
2 Q. And also she had other doctors including
3 Dr. Barras, we've heard him testify?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And Dr. Shukinon (phonetic), the infectitious
6 disease doctor?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Did these doctors ask you about Terry's eating
9 habits?
10 A. I don't recall them asking me about them, I mean,
11 with all the commotion going on, you know.
12 Q. Okay. Do you recall them asking you anything
13 about her intake of fluids, asking you anything about her
14 intake of fluids?
15 A. Dr. Shah mentioned to me if Terry drank a lot of
16 coffee, and I said, no, she did drink a lot of iced tea and
17 that was --
18 Q. And you told him the same thing you told us --
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. -- about the gallon a day?
21 A. Yes, she drank close to a gallon a day.
22 Q. All right. Do you recall whether or not you told
23 Dr. Shah or any of the other doctors that you had been
24 concerned that she had not been eating enough because she
25 was getting so thin from time-to-time?
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13
1 A. I don't actually recall saying that, I might have.
2 Q. Okay. After Terry was discharged from Humana
3 Northside, where did she then go?
4 A. She went from Humana to College Harbor Nursing
5 Home.
6 Q. And how long was she there?
7 A. She was there for 49 days.
8 Q. And then we heard Dr. Barras tell us about how he
9 then had her moved over to Bayfront?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. To the rehabilitation facility there?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And then after she left Bayfront you all brought
14 her home to a house that you and your mother-in-law and
15 father-in-law, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, had for Terry to
16 come to?
17 A. Yeah, we all got together, rented a house and
18 knew Terry would be coming home with us.
19 Q. And how long did she stay home with you all?
20 A. She was home with us approximately three or four
21 months.
22 Q. And the three of you then tried to take care of
23 her around the clock?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And those were difficult times, I would take it?
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14
1 A. Yes, it was very difficult.
2 Q. After that what did you do as far as Terry is
3 concerned, where did she go?
4 A. Terry went back to College Harbor again, I
5 believe, for a couple weeks in the transition of us taking
6 her to California.
7 Q. You and Dr. Barras and her mom and dad and
8 Dr. Barras talked about this program in California that
9 might be of some help?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. That Dr. Haso --
12 A. Hasbuchi.
13 Q. Have we already had his name spelled? I hope so.
14 I can't spell it. She then stayed out there in California
15 with Dr. Hasbuchi for how long?
16 A. Two months.
17 Q. And she had these electrodes planted?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you think that did any good?
20 A. It didn't do anything for her.
21 Q. But it was worth a try?
22 A. Yes, anything is worth a try.
23 Q. So after she came back, where did she go?
24 A. From California she came back to live with us
25 for about a week. I'm sorry, for nine days. She was with
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15
1 us for nine days.
2 Q. While you were all making arrangements for her to
3 go to Mebiplex?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Tell us, Mebiplex down in Bradenton?
6 A. Mebiplex deals with stroke victims, spinal
7 problems, head injuries. It's a facility dealing with
8 extensive rehab trying to break people from their comas and
9 bringing them up to different levels of a coma.
10 Q. Okay. How long was she there?
11 A. Six months.
12 Q. Was Dr. Alcavarian (phonetic) her main doctor
13 there?
14 A. Yes, he was. Yes.
15 Q. Did they rehabilitate her to any degree there?
16 Were they able to make any strives or headway?
17 A. No.
18 Q. By the way, let me back up, how did Terry actually
19 physically get from here to California?
20 A. I had a lot of fund raisers and I raised some
21 money to fly her out to California.
22 Q. Did you fly commercial or how?
23 A. Yes, we flew commercial. We flew, I believe it
24 was Eastern. We had to buy four First Class seats and took
25 two seats out to put a stretcher in and I took a critical
___
16
1 care nurse with me.
2 Q. And that's how you got her back, too?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. After Mebiplex, where did she go?
5 A. Mebiplex she went to Sabal Palms.
6 Q. She's been at Sabal Palms ever since?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you select Sabal Palms? Did you check it out
9 and decide that's a good place for her?
10 A. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
11 Q. What I'm going to do now is ask we get our video
12 started, it it's all right, Your Honor, and I would like you
13 to, Michael, to get where you can see the screen and tell
14 the jury, if you will, what's going on in this video.
15 A. Okay. You want me to use his, too, or --
16 Q. No, I think you best come down here. If you can
17 see it from right over there, that will be fine. Can you
18 see it from there? Maybe you can come over here with me.
19 Is that fine, Your Honor?
20 THE COURT: Certainly.
21 MR. WOODWORTH: With the Court's permission, while
22 we're getting this started, early on, if I may, let me
23 just orient us. We originally told the jury we would
24 bring Terry in in lieu of this film. Your Honor, we
25 think that this will take care of that. This is a film
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17
1 that was made relatively recently at Sabal Palms which
2 is designed to compress the average day for Terry into
3 a twenty minute video so that you all, so the jury can
4 have an opportunity to see what the day was like.
5 And if we can start the video now.
6 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Mike, if you will, just as we
7 go along, tell the jury what's happening here.
8 Do you remember when we went over to Sabal Palms?
9 Tell the jury what's going on now.
10 A. Right here, basically, you can see she's dressed,
11 she's already had her shower and everything. We would get
12 her dressed, put her shoes and socks on. I'm trying out her
13 hands there. You have to keep the inside of the hands,
14 since she's contracted, you have to keep them dry because
15 infection can set in, and I usually do a little bit of range
16 of motion with her.
17 Q. And while you're doing that, do you talk to her?
18 A. Yes, I am talking to her right now telling her
19 it's okay.
20 Q. She doesn't like that very much?
21 A. No, she doesn't. She does feel pain.
22 MR. DEACON: I would have no problem.
23 with Mr. Schiavo --
24 MR. WOODWORTH: That's true.
25 MR. DEACON: I object to the comments by
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18
1 Mr. Woodworth.
2 MR. WOODWORTH: I'll ask questions.
3 THE COURT: Thank you.
4 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Does she like that kind of
5 treatment very much?
6 A. No, she does not. Here I'm trying to bend her
7 leg.
8 Q. Now, I notice under her legs when you did that the
9 skin is very loose; is that true?
10 A. Yes, it is. Now we're about to transfer her to
11 her wheelchair.
12 Q. Michael, at this time now does she weigh more than
13 she did when she went to see Dr. Igel?
14 A. No, she doesn't weigh more. What I was just doing
15 with the pad there, it's a jay cushion, and you have to keep
16 it pushed down, you have to move that gel in there around so
17 it fits nicely around her bottom end. We'll sit her up on
18 the edge of the bed and my mother-in-law takes the feet and
19 I'll take the top end and we transfer her into her chair and
20 slide her down, and usually we're pretty careful about the
21 aligning of her body and her hips.
22 Now we'll go about and put the different fixtures on
23 the chair and strap her in.
24 Q. I notice, Michael, you're holding her head back.
25 why are you doing that?
___
19
1 A. Because she'll fall forward, and if she falls fast
2 she gets excited. It's -- I was told by a doctor she was
3 getting the feeling she's falling. This is the cross bar
4 that goes across her chest to keep her from falling forward.
5 This is the tray that goes in front of her arms that holds
6 her instead of her arms contracting in, to hold them out,
7 and we'll also place pillows. You'll see.
8 Now, we'll put the leg braces on.
9 Q. Why do you put the leg braces on for?
10 A. To help her to keep her knees more bent to help
11 stretch the top muscles of her legs and so it doesn't
12 shorten her legs and the legs won't become stiff and
13 straight out. And we strap her feet in to help because
14 she has foot drop right now and that helps bend the foot
15 down pulling those muscles and putting the foot down.
16 Here I'm brushing her teeth.
17 Q. Do you take her to the dentist from time-to-time?
18 A. Yes, we do.
19 Q. How often do you do that?
20 A. We try to do it twice a year. As a matter of
21 fact, she has an appointment Monday.
22 We try to keep her teeth as clean as possible. It's
23 very hard for us to get into the back of her mouth. She
24 clamps down and bites down on the toothbrush. I've had
25 problems before using the suction catheter and she bit the
___
20
1 suction catheter there.
2 Q. What are you doing now?
3 A. I'm putting on makeup. I put on her makeup
4 everyday and I'm finishing up her lipstick.
5 This is the speech pathologist who comes in and works
6 with Terry.
7 Q. This is the speech pathologist you say?
8 A. Yes, it's the speech pathologist.
9 Q. What does he do for her?
10 A. He comes in and massages her lips and uses
11 different flavors to try to help her swallow. You'll
12 notice he's moving her lips and it helps massage the side
13 of the mouth so the mouth doesn't tighten up.
14 Q. You hoping he can get her to the point where she
15 swallows?
16 A. Yes. You see here rubbing the bottom of her
17 throat, that's, I don't know what the word is, gets them to
18 swallow when you rub the bottom of their throat. She just
19 swallowed that time. Sometimes they use ice on her face,
20 too. It's a stimulation.
21 Q. What is that, Mike?
22 A. That's a -- that is basically used to stimulate
23 her tongue and the back of her tongue to help with her gag
24 reflex. And like I said, sometimes they use different
25 flavors.
___
21
1 Q. What are you getting ready to do here?
2 A. We're getting ready to put what's called a tilt
3 table. The lady is helping me and what we'll do is just
4 slide her over to this table.
5 Q. And then after you get her on the table, what
6 happens then?
7 A. We will slowly stand her to a standing position.
8 Q. Why do you do that?
9 A. This is very good for like, she has drop legs, and
10 it's good for stretching the Achilles tendon and good for
11 the skin and good for contractors and good for circulation,
12 and it's good for somebody in Terry's condition that lies
13 down all the time. It's good for when -- it's good for
14 replacing the organs in your system back to where they're
15 supposed to be. Now while they're doing this, they usually
16 monitor the blood pressure.
17 Now we're just going to transfer her back into the bed.
18 This is where I'm getting her ready to start her feeding.
19 What that bottle is is her food. It's basically all
20 nutrition. It is all nutritious food. That wire I'm
21 playing with right there will connect to her catheter or her
22 Peg tube as they call it.
23 Q. That's the tube that goes into her stomach?
24 A. Into her stomach.
25 Q. How long does that feeding take place? How long
___
22
1 does it take to accomplish that?
2 A. They start her 6:00 in the morning and complete
3 the runs until 8:00 the next morning.
4 Q. Now what I'm doing here is changing the dressing
5 around the stoma. The stoma is very, very important, the
6 most important part of her medical treatment is right
7 now due to the fact that the acids from her stomach could
8 come up through that hole, and if that happens, it's very,
9 very irritating and it's very, very hard to clear up.
10 Acid from your stomach can burn a hole in the rug.
11 What we do is we apply some, what we call Bactroban, it
12 helps soothe the area and keeps the bugs down, also. And
13 if that tube were to come out accidentally and nobody knew it,
14 they would have to take Terry to the hospital and have it
15 opened up again because it will close within five minutes
16 that stoma.
17 Q. What's the problem over here?
18 A. Terry had a persistent sore on top of her toe, and
19 the hand you see is Dr. Brown the podiatrist coming in and
20 treating it. And what you'll see is see the blackened area
21 keeps coming back and they don't know why so she'll scrape
22 it and see what's going on.
23 Q. Did she have problems with a toe on her other
24 foot? I think we heard some other testimony from Dr. Mulroy
25 about a toe that had to be amputated?
___
23
1 A. On her left foot. The small toe developed an
2 ulceration, what we believe were the potis boots we were
3 using for her and turned to osteomyelitis and her toe had to
4 be removed. The bone had to be taken out.
5 This is the physical therapist that's coming in now.
6 When he gets set up, I'll explain to you what he's doing.
7 The people you see now are assistants.
8 Q. Does she express discomfort when some of these
9 things are happening to her?
10 A. Yes. Yes, she does.
11 Q. How does she do that?
12 A. She'll moan and groan.
13 Q. What are these therapists trying to do for her?
14 A. At the moment they're setting her up so they can
15 use ultrasound on the back of her heel cord and calves.
16 Q. What is that supposed to do?
17 A. Ultrasound helps to relax the muscles to be better
18 stretched. You'll see when he does it, he'll start
19 stretching the heel cord or the Achilles tendons.
20 Q. Is that a lamb's wool protector over that side
21 rail?
22 A. Yes, it is. Now, this is the other leg they're
23 doing.
24 Q. And I see is she all healed up on -- from the
25 amputation on that foot?
___
24
1 A. Yes, she's all healed, yes.
2 Now what he's going to start to do is going to stretch
3 that muscle out here.
4 Q. In one fashion or another, Mike, are all of the
5 joints of her body limbered up in some fashion with these
6 various kinds of things that you all are doing for her?
7 A. It's preventing them from getting any worse, yes.
8 And what he's doing right there is pretty uncomfortable.
9 He's working more with her. We take her out for walks.
10 usually take her out to the pond and sit and feed the ducks.
11 And now the cooler weather is coming and they have a
12 baseball field next to her and little leaguers play ball.
13 I like to get her outside for fresh air.
14 Q. Okay. You can resume your seat.
15 MR. WOODWORTH: Your Honor, I'm fairly close to
16 finishing and if its' all right with the Court, we can
17 leave the equipment there for the time.
18 THE COURT: That's fine.
19 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Michael, I'm going to hand
20 you two photographs which our Clerk has marked as
21 Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 4.
22 MR. WOODWORTH: May I approach, Your Honor?
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) And Plaintiff's Exhibit
25 Number 3 for identification. Can you tell us whether those
___
25
1 two pictures look like Terry looked before she had her
2 collapse?
3 A. Before she had her collapse?
4 Q. Yes.
5 A. Yes.
6 MR. WOODWORTH: Your Honor, I'd like to introduce
7 these as Plaintiff's Exhibits in evidence, if I may.
8 MR. DEACON: May I see them?
9 THE COURT: Surely.
10 MR. DEACON: Did you have them identified when
11 before the collapse it was taken, how many days,
12 approximately?
13 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Do you remember the
14 approximate dates?
15 A. The one with the tiger, maybe two years, a year
16 and a half ago, the tiger one.
17 MR. DEACON: A year and a half ago?
18 A. Before. It had to be like '88.
19 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) What about this one, maybe
20 '87, '86?
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. Is that how she looked before this collapse
23 happened?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay.
___
26
1 MR. DEACON: I have no objection at all, Judge.
2 THE COURT: It will be marked in evidence.
3 MR. WOODWORTH: May I have a moment, Your Honor?
4 THE COURT: Yes. You have nothing else?
5 MR. WOODWORTH: Just a few questions, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: I misunderstood. I'm sorry.
7 MR. WOODWORTH: As soon as these are marked, I'd
8 like to publish them to the jury.
9 At this time Your Honor, I am publishing these
10 two photographs to the jury so that they know what
11 Terry looked like just before this happened.
12 MR. DEACON: Could you identify on the back which
13 he said is the one as '88 and one was about '87.
14 Q. The tiger?
15 A. That was '88.
16 Q. Michael, have you started to go to nursing school?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Where did you go to nursing school?
19 A. I'm going -- I'm attending St. Pete Junior
20 College.
21 Q. When did you start?
22 A. Approximately a year ago.
23 Q. When do you hope to finish?
24 A. We're looking at something like 1994.
25 Q. Why did you want to learn to be a nurse?
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27
1 A. Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how
2 to take care of Terry.
3 Q. You're a young man. Your life is ahead of you.
4 Your future is beyond you. Up the road, when you look up
5 the road, what do you see for yourself?
6 A. I see myself hopefully finishing school and taking
7 care of my wife.
8 Q. Where do you want to take care of your wife?
9 A. I want to bring my wife home.
10 Q. If you had the resources available to you, if you
11 had the equipment and the people, would you do that?
12 A. Yes, I would, in a heartbeat.
13 Q. How do you feel about being married to Terry now?
14 A. I feel wonderful. She's my life and I wouldn't
15 trade her for the world. I believe in my -- I believe in my
16 wedding vows.
17 Q. What do you mean? You want to take a minute?
18 A. Yeah.
19 MR. WOODWORTH: If the Court would let us take a
20 minute.
21 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) You okay?
22 A. Yeah. I'm sorry.
23 Q. Have -- you said you believe in your wedding vows,
24 what do you mean by that?
25 A. I believe in the vows that I took with my wife,
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28
1 through sickness, in health, for richer or poorer. I
2 married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the
3 rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that.
4 MR. WOODWORTH: That's all.
5 THE COURT: Mr. Deacon.
6 MR. DEACON: May it please the Court.
7 Mr. Woodworth, Mr. Fox.
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. DEACON:
10 Q. Good morning, Mr. Schiavo.
11 A. Hi. How are you?
12 Q. How you doing?
13 A. Okay.
14 Q. You okay?
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. You're doing okay?
17 A. Yeah, I'm fine now.
18 Q. Okay. Is everybody doing okay? It's kind of
19 tough. You're very devoted to your wife; is that right?
20 A. Yes, I am.
21 Q. And that's very obvious and you're very much to
22 be commended for that.
23 Your marriage was a short one or your marriage had been
24 a short one before this incident happened to her?
25 A. My marriage --
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29
1 Q. Up to this incident happening, you hadn't been
2 married very long is what I meant.
3 A. We've been married five years.
4 Q. During that time, up to this time that that had
5 happened, that this incident happened to her, your marriage
6 was a happy one, was it not?
7 A. It was very happy.
8 Q. Since this incident happened, and it happened on
9 February 25, 1990, has her condition, in your observation,
10 from your observation, changed appreciably?
11 A. What condition you talking about?
12 Q. I'm talking about the fact you found her after her
13 heart attack on the floor about 5:00 in the morning on a
14 Sunday morning; is that right?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And the paramedics came and they resuscitated her
17 and took her to Humana Hospital; is that correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And from that time that she got to Humana Hospital
20 until today when we saw her on film, has her condition
21 changed appreciably?
22 A. No. She opens her eyes.
23 Q. She opens her eyes and she's off the ventilator?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. Let me take you back, if I can, to Pennsylvania
___
30
1 and the time that you lived there. One thing we established
2 at your deposition was the fact that you're not very good
3 with dates.
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. That's correct. Okay. We've now established what
6 was the date of your marriage?
7 A. We were married November 10, 1984.
8 Q. All right. And you came to Florida when?
9 A. In April of '86.
10 Q. Okay. You had some different dates but that's --
11 you established that as being the date; is that correct?
12 A. Yes, we did.
13 Q. Okay. All right. When you were in Pennsylvania,
14 did your wife see a doctor for any reason?
15 A. When in Pennsylvania, before we were married?
16 Q. I am sorry; after you were married?
17 A. After we were married?
18 Q. Yes, sir.
19 A. To my recollection, no.
20 Q. Wasn't there a time in Pennsylvania where she went
21 to see Dr. Mambu thinking she was pregnant?
22 A. Yes. Yes, she did. Yes.
23 Q. And that was sometime in 1985, April of '85, May
24 of '85?
25 A. A few months into our marriage.
___
31
1 Q. After you were married a few months your wife
2 thought she was pregnant, she went to see the doctor and
3 found out she was, in fact, not pregnant; is that correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Were you trying to get pregnant at that time or
6 was it just one of those things?
7 A. No, one of those things. We weren't planning on
8 getting pregnant that early.
9 Q. You found out -- why was it that she thought she
10 was pregnant?
11 A. Because evidently she missed a period.
12 Q. She went to the doctor in April and in May of
13 that year, do you recall?
14 A. April and May of which year?
15 Q. If Dr. Mambu's records reflect that --
16 A. Of which year you talking about?
17 A. 1985.
18 A. I recall her going to the doctor to see if she was
19 pregnant and that's all I remember about that.
20 Q. From the time you were married in November of '84
21 until she went to see the doctor in April of '85, was her
22 weight fairly stable?
23 A. In '84?
24 Q. '85.
25 A. It fluctuated a few pounds.
___
32
1 Q. A couple pounds?
2 A. A couple pounds.
3 Q. It was relatively stable?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. At that time I think we can describe her weight as
6 fairly mid-weight, between the two weights she had?
7 A. That I can't recall.
8 Q. I think she was 145?
9 A. When we got married.
10 Q. When you got married and stayed that weight until
11 you came down to Florida?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And then when you came to Florida in April of '86
14 she lost more weight, went down to 120's and so, is that
15 right even more?
16 A. I believe so, yes.
17 Q. All right. And that was in '86, was it not?
18 A. I don't remember the years.
19 Q. Okay. I think --
20 A. I don't remember every one of her weights.
21 Q. All right. You got some pictures there and you
22 put some dates on them. Are those pretty much approximate
23 dates?
24 A. Guesstimate. I am not good with dates. We've
25 already established that.
___
33
1 Q. We established that, sure. And but sometime
2 around '86 or so she lost about another 20 pounds; is that
3 about right?
4 A. I don't recall that, no.
5 Q. We have a picture of her.
6 A. I think I stated --
7 Q. That you've estimated to be around 1987 and shows
8 her in shorts with a teddybear or a chipmunk, I guess it is,
9 at a theme park or something?
10 A. Disney World
11 Q. Is that pretty much the way she looked in 1987;
12 is that correct?
13 A. IF the date I gave is correct.
14 Q. Did she continue to look like that in '87, '88,
15 '89 up to the time that she had her heart attack in 1990?
16 A. No, she fluctuated weight.
17 Q. More than a few pounds?
18 A. Between, I'd say, 20, 25 pounds up and down.
19 Q. Okay. When she saw Dr. Prawer in 1987, I think
20 the records will show she weighed about 120, 119 pounds?
21 A. That's what his records show.
22 Q. In 1989 when she saw Dr. Igel, she weighed 121.
23 Those records, you were here when he went through those
24 records?
25 A. Yes.
___
34
1 Q. And then in 1990 in February she weighed 124.
2 Your wife, all during your marriage, had an intolerance to
3 certain foods, did she not?
4 A. All during what?
5 Q. I mean during your married life she had an
6 intolerance to certain types of foods?
7 A. I found that our before we -- after we came to
8 Florida.
9 Q. There was a couple types of food she wouldn't eat
10 without getting sick?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Those were lettuce, salads?
13 A. Roughage, lettuce, dairy product.
14 Q. Ice cream, milk, creams?
15 A. Dairy products.
16 Q. How would that effect her if she'd eat those
17 foods?
18 A. She'd get real gassy, get diarrhea.
19 Q. You mentioned the fact that she drank a lot of
20 iced tea after she came to Florida; is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. About a gallon a day?
23 A. Estimating a gallon a day.
24 Q. Did she drink a lot of iced tea before she came to
25 Florida that --
___
34
1 A. Not that I recall.
2 Q. In addition to iced tea, did she drink a lot of
3 liquids?
4 A. I noticed one time she drank a lot of Coke.
5 Q. Coca-Cola?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. Now, did you ever have any inclination at all that
8 your wife may have had some type of eating disorder?
9 A. I had no inclination at all, absolutely none.
10 Q. And you saw her everyday?
11 A. I didn't see her everyday.
12 Q. Well, you worked, I understand different shifts,
13 you worked nights and she worked days?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. You worked from 10:00 to 12:00 and she worked
16 like 7:00 to 3:30; is that correct?
17 A. I worked 10:00 in the morning to 10:00 or 11:00 at
18 night.
19 Q. Right. And she worked during the day?
20 A. During the morning hours, yes.
21 Q. There were times, though, you had sometimes off;
22 is that correct?
23 A. My time off was basically Sunday.
24 Q. All right. And but you slept with her at night?
25 A. Right.
___
36
1 Q. And you saw her in the mornings?
2 A. No, I didn't see her in the mornings.
3 Q. Okay. She left before you got up?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You saw her on weekends?
6 A. I seen on --
7 Q. Sundays?
8 A. Sundays, and a couple hours before I left for
9 work on Saturday.
10 Q. You've had various jobs while you're here in
11 Florida, did you not?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. But most of them required you working at night?
14 A. Yes, most of them. All did, yes.
15 Q. And there was nothing about her appearance or
16 anything about her which in any way, shape or form gave you
17 any inclination that she had an eating disorder?
18 A. Nothing, no. No, none whatsoever.
19 Q. Nothing at all. This huge omlette she made on
20 Sunday and she ate all of it --
21 A. Every last bit of it.
22 Q. -- what would she do after she ate it?
23 A. She'd read the newspaper.
24 Q. Okay. Did she ever go to the bathroom after
25 eating large amounts of food like that?
___
37
1 A. Not right away, no.
2 Q. Did you ever notice any suspicious bathroom
3 activity on her part?
4 A. One time, yes.
5 Q. What was that?
6 A. We had just finished dinner, she said she was
7 going to go to the bathroom, she got up and went into the
8 bathroom and it was a chilly month and she closed the door
9 and was doing her business and she turned the water on. So,
10 I went up to the door, I said, Terry, what are you doing
11 with the water on, she said it's freezing in here, I'm
12 warming up. And Terry was always a chilly person. In the
13 summertime she wore blankets on the bed. And that's the
14 time I ever noticed about that and had no inclination and
15 never paid any attention to it at all.
16 Q. Other than that, you had no inclination at all she
17 might have had anything out of the ordinary?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Other than omlettes on Sunday, would she eat
20 normally?
21 A. Ate normally in front of me, yes.
22 Q. Ate normal meals. You never had to say anything
23 to her to encourage her to eat balanced meals?
24 A. No, I never had to encourage her, no.
25 Q. Okay. You never thought other than this omlette
___
38
1 that she had erratic eating habits?
2 A. I thought she had peculiar eating habits, nothing
3 I had to pay attention to. I mean the girl was hungry, I
4 let her eat the omlette.
5 Q. Okay. Ate a big omlette.
6 Did you take trips during the time you were here in
7 Florida, go on vacations?
8 A. Very, very rarely. Due to my work.
9 Q. Okay. If you did take a trip, you mentioned very
10 rare, where would you go?
11 A. I think one time we went to Disney World for the
12 day.
13 Q. Okay. Did she eat normally there?
14 A. Yes, she did.
15 Q. Okay. How long were you there, how many days?
16 A. Just for the day.
17 Q. All right. Any other trips that you can think
18 about?
19 A. No.
20 Q. And she had no suspicious behavior?
21 A. None whatsoever, sir.
22 Q. Other than drinking a gallon of iced tea and a
23 bunch of Cokes?
24 A. That's all I noticed.
25 Q. During that time when you were in Florida, was
___
39
1 Terry seeing another physician other than Dr. Igel?
2 A. She was seeing Dr. Prawer.
3 Q. Dr. Prawer was the family doctor?
4 A. He was, yes.
5 Q. And he saw Terry '87, '88, '89, I think?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. For various minor --
8 A. Various -- I wouldn't say they were minor.
9 Q. Pardon?
10 A. I wouldn't say minor.
11 Q. What kind of things did she see Dr. Prawer for?
12 A. She had a lump on her breast.
13 Q. Outside lump, not an inside one?
14 A. Yeah, but it was still a lump. She had some warts
15 on her toe and she went to see him for light-headedness and
16 dizziness.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. And I believe irregular period.
19 Q. All right. You were also seeing Dr. Prawer, were
20 you not?
21 A. Yes, I was.
22 Q. In addition to being Terry's doctor, he was also
23 your doctor?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And what kind of things did you see him for?
___
40
1 MR. WOODWORTH: Your Honor, I object to those
2 kinds of things. Mr. Schiavo's health is not an
3 issue here.
4 MR. DEACON: He's right, I was just making --
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 Q. How often did you see Dr. Prawer?
7 A. Myself?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. Not very often.
10 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with
11 Dr. Prawer about your wife's consumption of fluids?
12 A. I don't recall any conversations with him.
13 Q. So we can assume you didn't notice any irregular
14 eating habits on your wife that you didn't talk to
15 Dr. Prawer about that she ate?
16 A. Can you rephrase that?
17 Q. Did you talk to Dr. Prawer about how she ate?
18 A. Not that I can recall, no. I don't think I
19 mentioned it. I didn't think I needed to.
20 Q. I didn't say you did, I just asked you if you did.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. Okay. Other than this huge omlette or the pizza
23 you mentioned, would she eat normally on Sunday?
24 A. We'd have a regular dinner, yeah. Sometime we'd
25 stop for lunch somewhere.
___
41
1 Q. Did your wife have any allergies?
2 A. Yes, she did.
3 Q. And what was that
4 A. She was allergic to Benadryl.
5 Q. Was she taking any medication?
6 MR. WOODWORTH: Excuse me, Your Honor, I object
7 to that. I thought -- I thought we covered this
8 territory, it's not relevant here.
9 THE COURT: Mr. Deacon, you want to be heard?
10 MR. DEACON: No, sir. I'm going through my notes.
11 THE COURT: I'm going to sustain.
12 Q. (BY MR. DEACON:) We have some photos of your
13 wife. When was the last time you saw her before her
14 collapse on February 25, 1990?
15 A. The last time I saw her?
16 Q. yes, sir.
17 A. The 24th.
18 Q. What time of day did you see her on the 24th?
19 A. Late at night.
20 Q. Okay. Would that be when you got off work?
21 A. It was a Saturday night, so probably 11:30, 12:00
22 by the time I got home.
23 Q. Where were you working at that time?
24 A. Agastino's Restaurant.
25 Q. What time did they close the restaurant?
___
42
1 A. Stopped serving 10:00, and if people were walking
2 in a quarter to ten, they serve them.
3 Q. You recall approximately what time you got home
4 that evening?
5 A. 11:30, 12:00.
6 Q. Your wife up?
7 A. I don't recall if she was up or not.
8 Q. Do you recall whether or not you had any
9 conversation with her that night?
10 A. I might have. I don't remember the conversation.
11 Q. Okay. Would it be fair to assume that you don't
12 recall anything out of the ordinary happening as far as your
13 wife, her condition or anything about her that evening?
14 A. Nothing out of the ordinary, no.
15 Q. She seemed fine to you; is that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. When was the last time you saw her before you
18 went to bed that night, in other words, when you, after you
19 got off from Agastino's?
20 A. The last time I saw her? Rephrase that question.
21 Q. That was a Saturday, was it, not the 24th?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. So, she did not work; is that correct?
24 A. No, she didn't.
25 Q. What time did you get up to go to work?
___
43
1 A. Being it was a Saturday, Friday night I probably
2 got home late, I usually don't get up until 10:00, 10:30.
3 Q. Okay. Do you recall whether or not she was there
4 when you got up?
5 A. No, she usually did her food shopping when I was
6 sleeping.
7 Q. You don't recall seeing her that morning?
8 A. Not that early.
9 Q. All right. Up to the time of her collapse, what
10 was her condition as far as you can observe?
11 A. What do you mean by condition?
12 Q. Did she seem healthy, the same old Terry?
13 A. She seemed like my wife.
14 Q. Okay. Well, you know, did she seem healthy is
15 actually my question?
16 A. To me, yeah.
17 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, have you ever spoken with
18 Dr. Igel at all during the time Terry was seeing him?
19 A. No, I've never spoke to Dr. Igel.
20 Q. How would you describe your wife as far as her
21 activities, what kind of things would she like to do for
22 recreation and enjoyment?
23 A. Terry liked to spend time with her friends,
24 girlfriends, enjoyed arts and crafts, she liked being
25 outdoors.
___
44
1 Q. In one picture you have of her, I think the '87
2 one, she's in shorts or athletic shorts. Was she an
3 athletic kind of person?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Did she exercise regularly?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did she play any sports?
8 A. Terry didn't know what sports was.
9 Q. Did she do any kind of, go to the spa or
10 gymnastics or aerobics or anything like that?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Not at all. After she lost this weight in '86
13 or so, how did she feel about herself?
14 A. Terry felt great about herself.
15 Q. She like being thin?
16 A. yes, she did.
17 Q. Did she ever make any comments to you about liking
18 being thin?
19 A. No, she didn't make a comment. Just by seeing her
20 I can see she liked it.
21 Q. What was it that gave you that impression?
22 A. Just her overall being. First time she wore a
23 bikini.
24 Q. Okay. You used to go to the beach with her, you,
25 her, her mother? She liked her bikini and she liked to go
___
45
1 to the beach?
2 A. Yeah, she did. I was working.
3 Q. It's fair to say she was proud of her figure?
4 A. Yeah, she was proud of her figure, yes.
5 MR. DEACON: Thank you, sir.
6 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
7 MR. DEACON: That's all I have.
8 THE COURT: Any redirect?
9 MR. WOODWORTH: Just a couple.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. WOODWORTH:
13 Q. Michael, you've heard some testimony and some
14 references to the fact that throughout the course of the
15 proceedings that some of the people who worked with Terry,
16 one or two of them, noted that she went to the bathroom
17 after lunch everyday?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you ever take particular note of that while
20 your were married, while Terry and you were living together?
21 A. Of her going to the bathroom?
22 Q. After meals regularly?
23 A. Never took any particular note.
24 A. All right. Did you ever suspect in any way, even
25 to the slightest degree that Terry's irregularity, menstrual
___
46
1 irregularity that she went to see Dr. Prawer for -- strike
2 that -- that she went to see Dr. Igel for had anything
3 whatsoever to do with the way she ate?
4 MR. DEACON: Excuse me, Judge, I'll object to
5 that.
6 MR. WOODWORTH: Or didn't eat.
7 MR. DEACON: He's asking for a medical opinion
8 from this particular witness.
9 THE COURT: He asked if he suspected.
10 MR. DEACON: Her irregularity and menstruation
11 habits were connected.
12 MR. WOODWORTH: I'm sorry, what's the objection?
13 MR. DEACON: The objection is asking for a medical
14 opinion from this witness.
15 MR. WOODWORTH: Wait a minute, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT: No speeches. Overrule the objection.
17 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Did you ever have the
18 slightest hint from any source whatsoever that there might
19 be any kind of a connection between what Terry was or wasn't
20 eating or her eating habits, peculiar or not, and her
21 menstrual irregularity?
22 A. I had no clue at all.
23 Q. Did Dr. Igel or any of Dr. Igel's nurses,
24 personnel ever, to your knowledge, call Terry and tell her
25 that there might be a connection?
___
47
1 A. No.
2 Q. Or you?
3 A. No.
4 Q. That there might be a connection?
5 A. No.
6 Q. There is, in the Humana Northside, is that right,
7 the hospital where she was taken right after her collapse,
8 some records indicating that for a couple weeks somebody in
9 the family said she wasn't feeling so hot or wasn't feeling
10 too good, do you have any recollection of her not feeling
11 too good for a couple weeks before this happened?
12 A. The recollection I had was she had a real bad
13 vaginal infection.
14 MR. WOODWORTH: Okay. Thanks.
15 THE COURT: Anything else, Mr. Deacon?
16 MR. DEACON: Oh, no, sir.
17 THE COURT: Thank you.
18 MR. WOODWORTH: That's all, Your Honor.
19 May we have a moment?
20
21 (THEREUPON, THE PORTION ORDERED TO BE TRANSCRIBED WAS
22 CONCLUDED.)
23 * * * * * * *
24
25
___
48
1 STATE OF FLORIDA)
2 COUNTY OF PINELLAS)
3 I, JOANNE GERBINO, Court Reporter in and for the Sixth
4 Judicial Circuit of the State of Florida.
5 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings were
6 had at the time and place set forth in the caption thereof;
7 that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the
8 said proceedings, and that the foregoing pages, numbered 1
9 through 48, inclusive, constitute a true and correct
10 transcription of my said stenographic report.
11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto affixed my official
12 signature this 29th day of March, 1999, at Clearwater,
13 Pinellas County, Florida.
14
15
<signed>
16 ------------------------------
JOANNE GERBINO
17 Court Reporter,
Sixth Judicial Circuit,
18 State of Florida.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
491
posted on
03/31/2004 4:08:51 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: pc93
I figured it out.
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY
------------------------------
:
IN RE: THE GUARDIANSHIP OF :
THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,:
Incompetent. :
:
-------------------------------
:
ROBERT AND MARY SCHINDLER, :
:
Petitioners, :
vs. : Case No. 90-2908-GD
:
MICHAEL SCHIAVO as Guardian of:
the Person of THERESA MARIE :
SCHIAVO, :
:
Respondent. :
:
------------------------------
DEPOSITION OF: MICHAEL SCHIAVO
TAKEN: Pursuant to Notice
Instance of Petitioners
DATE: November 19, 1993
TIME: Commencing at 1:20 p.m.
PLACE: Steven Nilsson, Esquire
2471 McMullen Booth
Oakbrook Plaza
Suite 308
Clearwater, Florida
BEFORE: DEVERAH BIANCO
Stenographic Court Reporter
and Notary Public - State
of Florida at Large
___
APPEARANCES
STEVEN NILSSON, ESQUIRE
2471 McMullen Booth
Oakbrook Plaza
Suite 308
Clearwater, Florida
Attorney for Petitioners
JAMES SHEEHAN, ESQUIRE
341 3rd Street South
St. Petersburg, Florida 33701
Attorney for Respondent
ALSO PRESENT: Terese Malley
Robert Schindler
INDEX
Page
Direct Examination by Mr. Sheehan 3
Cross-Examination by Mr. Nilsson 84
Redirect Examination by Mr. Sheehan 86
Stipulations 88
Deponent's Signature Page and Errata 89
Court Reporter's Certification Page 90
___
3
1 MICHAEL SCHIAVO,
2 the Deponent herein, having been first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
6 Q Would you state your name for the record, please?
7 A Michael Schiavo.
8 Q And, Mr. Schiavo, where do you presently reside?
9 A 12190 66th Avenue North.
10 Q And is that a --
11 A Seminole. It's a house. I live with my parents.
12 Q Are you presently -- you're married to Terry
13 Schiavo, correct?
14 A Yes, I am.
15 Q Are you presently involved in a romantic
16 relationship with anyone?
17 A Yes, I am.
18 Q And who is that?
19 MR. NILSSON: I'll instruct the witness not to
20 answer that in terms of identification. If you have
21 other questions about the relationship, though,
22 please ask.
23 MR. SHEEHAN: What is the basis?
24 MR. NILSSON: Just right of privacy.
25 MR. SHEEHAN: Whose right of privacy?
___
4
1 MR. NILSSON: That individual's.
2 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
3 Q Okay. Can you at least tell me her first name?
4 MR. NILSSON: I'm going to instruct the witness
5 not to answer that either, but if you have questions
6 about the relationship, other than her name, ask him
7 and they'll be answered.
8 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
9 Q Okay. Tell me about the relationship. How long
10 has it been going on?
11 MR. NILSSON: Objection.
12 BY THE DEPONENT:
13 A We just met approximately three months ago.
14 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
15 Q How often do you see each other?
16 A Weekends, once twice during the week.
17 Q Do you have any future plans involving this
18 person that you're seeing?
19 A We just met.
20 Q Do you have any future involving this person?
21 What do you anticipate?
22 A At the present I have no idea.
23 Q Are you involved in an intimate relationship with
24 this person?
25 A Yes, I am.
___
5
1 Q Does this person reside with you --
2 A No.
3 Q -- or does she have her own apartment or house?
4 A She resides by herself.
5 Q Do you stay at her place?
6 MR. NILSSON: Has he ever stayed at her place
7 overnight? Is that what you're asking?
8 MR. SHEEHAN: Yes.
9 BY THE DEPONENT:
10 A Yes.
11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
12 Q Do you stay there often?
13 A No
14 Q Can you tell me approximately how often you stay
15 there.
16 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Vague. Do you mean how
17 often he spends the night there?
18 MR. SHEEHAN: Uh-huh.
19 BY THE DEPONENT:
20 A Twice a week maybe.
21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
22 Q How old are you?
23 A I'm sorry?
24 Q How old are you?
25 A Thirty.
___
6
1 Q How old is your companion?
2 A Twenty-eight.
3 Q Is this the first relationship that you've been
4 involved in since your wife has been in a coma?
5 A No.
6 Q How many other relationships have you been
7 involved in?
8 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as
9 to what the relationship is.
10 MR. SHEEHAN: Romantic.
11 MR. NILSSON: Same objection. Vague and
12 ambiguous.
13 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
14 Q You can answer.
15 BY THE DEPONENT:
16 A I was in one other relationship.
17 Q Was this with a person named Cindy?
18 A Yes.
19 Q How long did that relationship last?
20 A Yes. About eight months, approximately, give or
21 take.
22 Q Was it an intimate relationship?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did you and Cindy ever live together?
25 A No.
___
7
1 Q Is it true that you and Cindy shared adjoining
2 apartments?
3 A No
4 Q When you become involved in these relationships
5 -- the two relationships that you are describing -- one
6 lasted eight months. Was it an exclusive relationship,
7 the one with Cindy?
8 A What do you mean by exclusive?
9 Q I mean was she the only person you were seeing at
10 the time?
11 A Yes.
12 MR. NILSSON: Objection, other than his wife
13 Terry, you mean.
14 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
15 Q Other than his wife Terry.
16 A Other than my wife Terry, yes, she was the only
17 one.
18 Q And did you see her, like, on weekends like your
19 present relationship?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What -- you've been involved in a relationship
22 for eight months and now you are going in another one for
23 three months, what is your anticipation where the
24 relationships are going to go or do you think about it at
25 all?
___
8
1 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad, vague and
2 ambiguous. Do the best you can.
3 BY THE DEPONENT:
4 A I don't anticipate anything.
5 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
6 Q Do you anticipate that if the relationship
7 continues that you may eventually want to divorce Terry
8 and remarry?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Asks for speculation.
10 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
11 Q You can answer.
12 MR. NILSSON: Just a second. If you --
13 BY THE DEPONENT:
14 A I have no plans of abandoning Terry.
15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
16 Q My question is not whether you have any plans of
17 abandoning Terry. My question is: Do you anticipate, if
18 this relationship continues, that at some time you may
19 want to divorce Terry and remarry? That was my question.
20 Q What is your understanding of your wife's present
21 medical condition?
22 A As far as overall?
23 Q Overall.
24 A Terry, right now, is in stable condition. She
___
9
1 has no skin problems. She gets to the doctor regularly.
2 Q Now --
3 MR. NILSSON: Wait. Please give the witness a
4 chance to finish the question. And I want to make
5 some objections to the question right now. The
6 question is overly broad and assumes this witness is
7 qualified to state every aspect of her medical
8 condition.
9 Please let him finish his answer. You asked a
10 question that has a whole lot of different aspects to
11 it in terms of her condition, mental condition,
12 physical condition. And I would appreciate it if you
13 would let him finish the answer.
14 MR. SHEEHAN: I thought he was finished.
15 BY THE DEPONENT:
16 A Could you repeat the question again now?
17 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
18 Q I was asking you to tell me what her present
19 medical condition was. You indicated that she was stable,
20 that she had no skin problems, that she was seeing a
21 doctor regularly and your attorney object at that point.
22 Was there anything else that you wanted to add?
23 MR. NILSSON: Same objection.
24 BY THE DEPONENT:
25 A She's well taken care of at the present time.
___
10
1 That's all I can think of right now. Depends on what else
2 you'd like to know.
3 Q What is your -- or how do you perceive your
4 responsibility as far as her medical treatment?
5 A Rephrase your question, please.
6 Q Well, my question is: What do you perceive your
7 responsibility as as her guardian with regard to her
8 medical treatment?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection to the extent requires a
10 legal analysis as to what his legal responsibility
11 is. To the extent you have some understanding of
12 what your perceive your responsibility to be, you
13 know, you can answer that, if you can.
14 MR. SHEEHAN: Before you answer it, let me just
15 say that your objections are preserved, other than to
16 the form of the question. If you want to object to
17 every question, it's certainly your right, but it's
18 unnecessary to do.
19 MR. NILSSON: Jim, I know exactly what that rule
20 says. I've certainly argued it many times in trial.
21 And if I feel like I need to make an objection other
22 than relevancy, I feel that I am entitled --
23 MR. SHEEHAN: I will stipulate that your
24 objections are preserved.
25 MR. NILSSON: Well, I'll still make my objections
___
11
1 where I think they're appropriate. I appreciate the
2 offer, though.
3 MR. SHEEHAN: Okay.
4 MR. NILSSON: Well, you're asking him for,
5 basically a legal conclusion.
6 MR. SHEEHAN: No, I'm asking him for his
7 perception of what, and that is a fact question, what
8 he perceives his job is as far as her medical
9 treatment.
10 MR. NILSSON: I want to make it clear you're not
11 asking for a legal analysis?
12 MR. SHEEHAN: Right.
13 MR. NILSSON: That's what my objection was
14 designed to do.
15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
16 Q You can answer.
17 A My job is to take care of Terry and meet all of
18 her medical needs, to make decisions based on what Terry
19 would want. I'm still vague on your question of what you
20 would want out of that question.
21 Q How often do you meet with the doctor? Do you
22 meet with him on a regular basis?
23 A Terry goes every two months, unless there is
24 something else that comes up, and we take her over there.
25 Q Do you, yourself, meet with the doctor?
___
12
1 A Yes, I do.
2 Q Do you discuss with him such things as what type
3 of treatment he's providing, what type of medication he's
4 providing?
5 A Yes, I do.
6 Q Do you give him direction as to what steps he
7 should take or what things he should or shouldn't do in
8 the future?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Compound. Answer to
10 the best of your ability.
11 BY THE DEPONENT:
12 A I don't tell the doctor what to do. He's gone to
13 school for that.
14 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
15 Q Uh-huh. Have you taken any steps or given any
16 direction to the doctor or the nursing home, and I'm
17 particularly concerned with the area of July and August of
18 this year, with regard to your wife's care or treatment/
19 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad. Vague
20 and ambiguous. If you can answer it, do so to the
21 best of your ability. Meaning what? Is there
22 something specific you would like to --
23 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
24 Q You know, unfortunately, this is a discovery
25 deposition and the purpose of my questions is to find out
___
13
1 what. I can give you a little factual scenario and see if
2 that will help you?
3 A I'm -- I'm --
4 Q See if that will help you in answering the
5 question. We were contacted -- my office was contacted by
6 the nursing home and they indicated that something had
7 changed as far as the treatment of Terry in July and
8 August and the change had something to do with the
9 direction that you had made, either to the nursing home or
10 to the doctor.
11 My question to you is: Did you -- did you change
12 any directions that you had given to the nursing home or
13 to the doctor prior to that or did you do anything that
14 you're aware of?
15 A Yes.
16 MR. NILSSON: Let me make my objections for the
17 record again. The question is improper. It's a
18 summary. It's a portion of testimony by the person
19 asking the question. It's compound. If you have
20 information that you think answers the question,
21 state it.
22 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
23 Q You said yes?
24 A Yes.
25 Q What did you do or what did you not do?
___
14
1 A I put a -- after speaking with my doctor, I gave
2 an order not to treat a bladder infection Terry had.
3 Q Who was the doctor you spoke with?
4 A Mulroy.
5 Q And Mulroy is your doctor or Terry's doctor?
6 A Terry's doctor.
7 Q Tell me about the conversation you had with
8 Mulroy.
9 A I talked to him about what he felt Terry's future
10 was. And he told me that Terry is basically going to be
11 like this for the rest of her life and I was trying to
12 make decisions on what Terry would want.
13 Q What was her bladder condition?
14 A She had UTI.
15 Q Excuse me?
16 A She had a UTI.
17 Q What is that?
18 A Urinary tract infection.
19 Q What -- did the doctor tell you what the
20 treatment for that would be?
21 A Antibiotic usually.
22 Q And did he tell you what would occur if you
23 failed to treat that infection.
24 A Yes.
25 Q What did he tell you?
___
15
1 A That sometimes urinary tract infections will turn
2 to sepsis.
3 Q And sepsis is what?
4 A And infection throughout the body.
5 Q And what would the result of untreated sepsis be
6 to the patient?
7 A The patient would pass on.
8 Q So when you made the decision not to treat
9 Terry's bladder infection you, in effect, were taking a
10 decision to allow her to pass on?
11 A I was making a decision on what Terry would want.
12 Q I don't think you answered my question. Could
13 you repeat the question?
14 (Whereupon, the pertinent portion of the Record was read
15 back by the Court Reporter.)
16 MR. NILSSON: Let me make an objection that that
17 question seeks a medical opinion, and there's been no
18 testimony that this person's qualified to give a
19 medical opinion that if, in fact, the bladder
20 infection weren't treated, that Terry would die.
21 Answer to the best of your ability.
22 BY THE DEPONENT:
23 A That's what would happen. That's what would
24 happen.
25 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
___
16
1 Q Has the bladder condition been treated?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And was -- what was the reason that the bladder
4 condition was treated?
5 A Sable Palms Nursing Home said they could not do
6 that by some Florida law which wasn't stated.
7 Q But you didn't change your opinion or your
8 decision to not treat the bladder condition?
9 A We did change it.
10 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Asked and answer.
11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
12 Q Correct?
13 A Repeat your question.
14 Q You did not change your decision not to treat the
15 bladder condition, correct?
16 A I had to change my decision.
17 Q Sable Palms changed it for you?
18 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Arguing with the
19 witness. He said he had to change it based on what
20 Sable Palms position was.
21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
22 Q Okay. Is there any reason that you would not
23 make the same decision that you previously made if the
24 problem came up again?
25 A Repeat your question again, your losing me here.
___
17
1 Q Let me be more specific. If you're wife
2 developed another condition that could result in her
3 death, is there any reason that you would not take the
4 position that you're not going to treat that condition and
5 you're going to instruct the doctor not to treat that
6 condition?
7 A I wouldn't instruct anybody, no.
8 Q You instructed the doctor not to treat the
9 bladder condition, correct?
10 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Vague. You're talking
11 about the matter he's already told you about or are
12 you speculating --
13 MR. SHEEHAN: Right, I'm going back to --
14 MR. NILSSON: You're trying to summarize what he
15 already testified to.
16 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm not trying to summarize. I'm
17 asking a question.
18 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
19 Q You did instruct the doctor not to treat her
20 bladder condition correct?
21 A Uh-huh, yes.
22 Q If a similar condition arose in the future,
23 would you do the same thing?
24 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Asked and answered. He
25 just told you he wouldn't instruct anybody to do
___
18
1 anything.
2 MR. SHEEHAN: I don't think he did.
3 BY THE DEPONENT:
4 A I'm thinking.
5 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
6 Q Take your time.
7 A I probably wouldn't instruct the doctor to do it.
8 Q So you've changed your opinion?
9 A Sort of, yeah.
10 Q Why have you changed your opinion?
11 A Because evidently there is a law out there that
12 says I can't do it.
13 Q Is that the only reason?
14 A Basically, maybe.
15 MR. NILSSON: Move to strike the witness'
16 statement, saying there being a law that says he
17 couldn't do it. The witness is not qualified to say
18 what the law is.
19 MR. SHEEHAN: He's qualified to say what his
20 reasons are. What the law is something that will be
21 decided by the court.
22 MR. NILSSON: I move to strike his statement as
23 to there being a law that prohibits it. I'm not
24 aware of it. You're not aware of it. And this
25 witness has not been shown to be qualified to make
___
19
1 the statement about a law that doesn't exist.
2 MR. SHEEHAN: He's talking about his perception.
3 He's qualified to state what his reasons are and what
4 his perceptions are. The law will take care of
5 itself.
6 MR. NILSSON: But none the less, I can move to
7 strike his statement of what the law is. I've done
8 it.
9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
10 Q What you're telling me is, is that there is
11 nothing in your belief or feelings that have changed. The
12 only thing that has changed is the fact that you perceived
13 the law prevents you to do what you intended to do?
14 A Correct.
15 Q Okay. Are you presently employed?
16 A No, I'm not.
17 Q What was the last job that you held?
18 A I worked for, Augustinos Restaurant.
19 Q When was that, do you know?
20 A I've been gone from there for four years now.
21 Q And what did you do at Augustinos?
22 A I was the manager.
23 Q What -- why did you leave?
24 A 'Cause of Terry.
25 Q And you haven't worked in four years?
___
20
1 A Nope. No.
2 Q Have you looked for work?
3 A No, I go to school.
4 Q Where do you go to school?
5 A St. Pete J.C.
6 Q How long have you been going to school?
7 A Two, almost two and-a-half years now.
8 Q What subjects or what course of study are you
9 doing?
10 A Medical.
11 Q Is that nursing school?
12 A Um, I just graduated EMT school, and I'm starting
13 in August of '94, I'm going into the respiratory program.
14 Q What do you anticipate getting your degree in,
15 and what profession do you anticipate --
16 A Respiratory therapy.
17 Q Where did you work before Augustinos?
18 A Feather Sound Country Club.
19 Q What do you do there?
20 A I was the assistant food and beverage manager.
21 Q How long did you work at Augustinos?
22 A Three years, maybe; two and-a-half years, three
23 years.
24 Q Did you leave right after Terry went into a coma?
25 A Shortly after, yes.
___
21
1 Q And how long did you work at Feather Sound?
2 A A month.
3 Q What happened there?
4 A I was offered the job at Augustinos.
5 Q Where did you work before Feather Sound?
6 A I opened the Columbia at the pier.
7 Q You say you opened it, were you the manager of
8 the Columbia?
9 A I was one of the managers.
10 Q How long did you work there?
11 A Approximately a year and-a-half.
12 Q What was your reason for leaving there?
13 A Lots of hours, wasn't able to see Terry.
14 Q So you quit?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q And before the Columbia?
17 A I worked for Dolphin Beach Resort for a couple of
18 weeks.
19 Q And what did you do there?
20 A Food and beverage manager.
21 Q How long did you work there?
22 A About a month or so.
23 Q And what was your reason for leaving?
24 A I was offered the job at the Columbia.
25 Q Prior to the Dolphin Beach?
___
22
1 A I'm sorry.
2 Q Prior to the Dolphin Beach?
3 A I worked for Breckenridge Resort and Hotel.
4 Q Out on St. Pete Beach?
5 A Yes.
6 MR. NILSSON: Can we have a time frame at this
7 point?
8 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
9 Q What year was that?
10 A Um, trying to think when I moved there. 1986,
11 approximately '86, '87, something like that.
12 Q Was that your first job in Florida?
13 A No.
14 Q What was your first job?
15 A Olga's Kitchen.
16 Q What did you do there?
17 A Manager.
18 Q How long did you work there?
19 A Year.
20 Q And what was your reason for leaving?
21 A I believe I went to the Breckenridge.
22 Q So you were offered the job at the Breckenridge
23 and you left?
24 A I'm not very sure how that happened. I think
25 that's the way it worked.
___
23
1 Q And you worked at Breckenridge for how long?
2 A I was there for a while, a year and-a-half.
3 Q And your reason for leaving the Breckenridge?
4 A They hired a management company. They brought
5 their own people in.
6 Q Now, when you left Augustinos to take care of
7 Terry, what -- was there a need at that time for you to be
8 a caretaker full time?
9 A My own personal need, yes.
10 Q What was happening at that time?
11 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad. Vague
12 and ambiguous in politics, in the world, what?
13 BY MR. SHEEHAND:
14 Q With the treatment of your wife.
15 A Terry was basically still on life supports when I
16 left Augustinos.
17 Q Was she at home? Was she in the hospital?
18 A No, she was still in the hospital.
19 Q What hospital was she in?
20 A Human Northside.
21 Q How long was she at Humana Northside?
22 A She was there for a good two and-a-half, three
23 months.
24 Q How long after she left Humana Northside did you
25 take her to California?
___
24
1 A Had to be maybe -- I don't know, don't hold me to
2 dates or times -- six, eight months later.
3 Q And what was the purpose of taking her to
4 California?
5 A There was some experimental surgery that I heard
6 about.
7 Q Do you remember the doctor you went to see out
8 there?
9 A Doctor Yoshio Hosobuchi.
10 MR. NILSSON: Can you spell that name?
11 THE DEPONENT: If I had a piece of paper I can.
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q Prior to her -- to Terry going to see Doctor
14 Hosobuchi, who was her main treating physician here?
15 A At that time?
16 Q Yeah.
17 A Before she left it was -- well, there was so
18 many. She had Doctor Shamir Shaw was still seeing her
19 when she was at College Harbor.
20 Q She didn't have, like, one main treating
21 physician?
22 A Doctor Barras, David Barras would probably be --
23 she went to Bayfront.
24 Q Does Doctor Barras still see her?
25 A No.
___
25
1 Q Is there a reason that he doesn't see her
2 anymore?
3 A I think his last words were, awhile ago, that
4 there is nothing more he could do for her.
5 Q Okay. Tell me about Doctor Hosobuchi and his
6 treatment of Terry?
7 A Well, the basic thing was we took her to
8 California. He had some experimental stimulators that he
9 was placing in peoples' heads. There were some people
10 that woke up.
11 It's a whole protocol on it. I don't have it
12 with me. But it would be very experimental. He put it
13 in. He did some testing. There was no evidence of it
14 working with Terry.
15 The only thing it would do, when he turned it up
16 passed a certain point Terry would just sit up, which was
17 just motor response. She would just get real bright eyed
18 because things were being stimulated. He wasn't thrilled
19 about it because he didn't see any positive signs.
20 Q Was -- did he implant anything into her? Did he
21 put anything in her head that remained?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Are they still?
24 A Yes.
25 Q What are they?
___
26
1 A Electrodes. They're platinum electrodes.
2 Q Did he suggest any future treatment that was
3 experimental --
4 A Treatment for what?
5 Q -- in California. Diagnostic testing, anything
6 of that nature?
7 A No. When Doctor Yingling was here, he came out
8 and, basically, if it didn't work within --
9 MR. NILSSON: The question is with whoever the
10 doctor was in California.
11 MR. SHEEHAN: Is there an objection? He's
12 answering the question.
13 MR. NILSSON: I'm going to ask the witness to be
14 responsive. You're asking about a different doctor
15 than Yingling. Your question was about the doctor in
16 California.
17 MR. SHEEHAN: I think his answer is responsive to
18 my question. Just the fact that there is another
19 doctor involved, let him answer.
20 MR. NILSSON: I want the witness to be responsive
21 to the question. If you're asking about the doctor
22 in California, that's what I want the witness to tell
23 you about to the extent he has knowledge.
24 MR. SHEEHAN: If he's not responding to my
25 question, I think that's my objection.
___
27
1 MR. NILSSON: Well, it's my objection.
2 MR. SHEEHAN: We can do this all day.
3 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
4 Q You started to --
5 A Repeat your question.
6 Q My question was: Was there a suggestion of
7 further diagnostic testing or procedures after the
8 treatment by Doctor Hosobuchi in California?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad. Vague
10 and ambiguous.
11 BY THE DEPONENT:
12 A As far as I can remember --
13 MR. NILSSON: Are you talking about a suggestion
14 by that doctor in California? Jim, I don't mean to
15 be funny with you, but there's lots of doctors. Are
16 you asking about all the doctors; any treatment after
17 that?
18 MR. SHEEHAN: I'll tell you what -- I will tell
19 you what, if you want to play this game, I'm going to
20 ask him about Doctor Hosobuchi, and then my next
21 question is going to be about Doctor Yingling.
22 Eventually, we're going to get to it.
23 MR. NILSSON: Okay. That's fine. But for you to
24 ask any suggestion of further analysis after some
25 event in California when that could have happened a
___
28
1 dozen times, to me, it's overly broad, vague and
2 ambiguous.
3 Now, if you got the doctor in California and want
4 to know what the doctor said, ask him that question
5 and if you don't, I'm going to object.
6 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
7 Q Did Doctor Hosobuchi, after he saw Terry,
8 recommend any further diagnostic procedures?
9 A He recommended that Doctor Yingling would be
10 doing it.
11 Q So did she see Doctor Yingling?
12 A She -- Doctor Yingling came out here, I believe,
13 a year later.
14 Q And that was at the suggestion of Doctor
15 Hosobuchi?
16 A That, I have no idea.
17 Q Okay. What did Doctor Yingling say or do, to
18 your knowledge?
19 A He came out -- Terry was at Mediplex -- he came
20 out and did some testing, and he needed a CP-900 machine
21 or something from Shands, and it wasn't available, and he
22 said it wasn't no big deal.
23 He told me he had -- he didn't see any evident
24 sign that the stimulator was working, did some tests with
25 Terry. Nothing was new with her from the time he had last
___
29
1 seen her. And that was basically it. We took him out to
2 dinner and he had loads of wine and that was it. He
3 spilled it all over our couch.
4 Q Other than the Doctor Hosobuchi and Doctor
5 Yingling -- was Doctor Yingling also from California?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And he was somebody that Doctor Hosobuchi
8 suggested see Terry?
9 A He was Hosobuchi's assistant.
10 Q Has she seen any other experts since that time?
11 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad and
12 ambiguous.
13 BY THE DEPONENT:
14 A What type of experts?
15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
16 Q Since Doctor Yingling saw her, what physicians
17 have seen her?
18 A She's seen Doctor Lyles.
19 Q And who is Doctor Lyles?
20 A He's a physiatrist -- I don't know how to say
21 that --
22 Q Physiatrist?
23 A Yeah -- at Health South. She has seen Doctor
24 Becker for gastrostomy problems. Doctor Mina Chang for
25 gynecology. Doctor Porter for her teeth. Doctor Harrison
___
30
1 for neurology. Doctor Mulroy.
2 Q What is Mulroy's specialty?
3 A He's an internist. Doctor Joan Brown,
4 podiatrist. Um, there is a GI doctor and I can't remember
5 his name. I'm sure there is a couple of other doctors
6 she's seen, I just can't remember their names.
7 Q Okay. How often does Doctor Harrison see her, do
8 you know?
9 A He's seen her --
10 MR. NILSSON: You're talking right now, as we
11 sit?
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q Yeah. I mean does he see her on a regular basis
14 now?
15 A No.
16 Q When was the last time he saw her?
17 A Yesterday.
18 Q When was the last time before that?
19 A She didn't.
20 Q So Doctor Harrison saw her for the first time
21 yesterday?
22 A Yes, on the advice of Doctor Lyles to go see her
23 or him.
24 Q Okay. When was the last time Terry had seen a
25 neurologist?
___
31
1 A I'd have to look up some records. I don't
2 remember.
3 Q Has it been years?
4 A No, I don't think it's been years.
5 Q Has a neurologist seen her since Doctor Yingling
6 saw her?
7 A I don't recall.
8 Q Have any diagnostic tests been performed since
9 Doctor Yingling saw Terry?
10 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad,
11 ambiguous. You mean of the neurology strain?
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q Okay. Of a neurology strain.
14 A I don't recall. There could have been. I don't
15 recall.
16 Q Now, you said Doctor Lyles had referred Terry to
17 Doctor Harrison?
18 A Uh-huh.
19 Q And when did Doctor Lyles suggest that Terry see
20 Doctor Harrison?
21 A We had Terry over there last week, I believe.
22 And he suggested it then.
23 Q What was the purpose of bringing Terry to see
24 Doctor Lyles last week?
25 A We -- to get Theresa off medication called
___
32
1 Tegratol, which is for seizures.
2 Q Who put her on Tegratol?
3 A Doctor Hosobuchi.
4 Q So she had been on Tegratol for quite awhile?
5 A Uh-huh, yes.
6 Q And was it your decision that you wanted to have
7 her taken off the medication?
8 A It was my and Doctor Lyle's decision.
9 Q Well, you indicated that the purpose of taking
10 her to Doctor Lyles was to have her taken off Tegratol?
11 A No, I didn't say that.
12 Q What was the purpose of taking her to Doctor
13 Lyles?
14 A 'Cause he was looking at her hip.
15 Q Uh-huh. What happened to her hip?
16 A It was starting to turn out and turned out it was
17 just tone; they were trying to correct the problem.
18 Q So the purpose of taking her to see Doctor Lyles
19 was really for treatment of her hip?
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q And at that time --
22 A He -- go ahead.
23 Q -- he suggest that you take her off Tegratol?
24 A The Tegratol subject came up.
25 Q How did it come up?
___
33
1 A He had seen her before and Terry's Tegratol level
2 has been real high and he was kind of concerned because
3 she was lethargic. And I mentioned about the Tegratol and
4 she's still real lethargic. He told me the best thing for
5 us to do was take her over to Doctor Harrison.
6 Q What did Doctor Harrison say?
7 A That there is no seizure activity and probably
8 wouldn't present a problem taking her off that.
9 MR. NILSSON: Are you asking for everything
10 Doctor Harrison said to him?
11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
12 Q Yeah.
13 A Doctor Harrison sent to me, when the EEG was
14 done, sat me down in the office and he says that her EEG
15 is so depressed and why do you let her live. And he said
16 to me that this woman died four years ago, and it's such a
17 tragic thing. And he said to me, I noticed you've taken
18 her to Largo Medical Center for some treatments and he
19 says that next time she gets an infection, not to treat
20 it.
21 And then we started talking about -- he said,
22 remove the feeding tube. And I told him I couldn't do
23 that to Terry. And then he says -- then he said to me,
24 well --
25 Q Go ahead.
___
34
1 A There is no seizure activity, so it wouldn't
2 present a problem of taking her off the Tegratol.
3 Q Was it Doctor Harrison's suggestion the feeding
4 tube be removed?
5 A It wasn't a suggestion, it was just talk. He
6 just mentioned it.
7 Q How did he mention it? What did he say?
8 A He was talking about removing the feeding tubes,
9 and I said I couldn't do that to Terry.
10 Q Was this the first -- this was the first time she
11 had seen Doctor Harrison?
12 A Yes, it was.
13 Q Do you know Doctor Harrison at all?
14 A No, I do not.
15 Q Other than a referral from Doctor Lyles?
16 A Just a referral from Doctor Lyles.
17 Q The things that Doctor Harrison said to you
18 yesterday, have they ever been said to you by another
19 physician?
20 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad and vague.
21 Compound. Ambiguous. Is there any aspect of what
22 was said of the many things that you are curious
23 about?
24 MR. SHEEHAN: He just testified that the doctor
25 said her EEG is so depressed, why do you let her
___
35
1 live. This woman died four years ago. Next time she
2 has an infection, don't treat it. There is no
3 seizure activity. Those were the things he testified
4 to.
5 I asked him the things that the doctor told you,
6 has any other physician ever told you that.
7 MR. NILSSON: Jim, let me make my objection to
8 you. There are a whole lot of things that Harrison
9 said, not just the things you just stated, those were
10 stated, but many other things, too.
11 If you have a particular point of interest, such
12 as taking the feeding tube or lack of EEG response,
13 or any of those things, why don't you just ask him
14 that specifically. And ask him if any of the other
15 doctors have discussed those points with him as
16 opposed to giving him ten unknown things to try --
17 given by all the doctors, you know, it's just overly
18 broad. That's my objection.
19 Let the question stand if you want, subject to my
20 objection. He can do the best he can to answer.
21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
22 Q Do you understand my question?
23 A I don't recall speaking of it with any other
24 doctor.
25 Q So when you made the decision on your own not to
___
36
1 treat or instructed the doctor not to treat Terry's
2 infection -- her bladder infection, no physician had made
3 the statements that Doctor Harrison had made to you at
4 that time, did they?
5 MR. NILSSON: You're going not from this
6 conversation with Harrison, but back to a time when
7 he had testified previous about don't treat the
8 bladder infection. You're asking if he had a
9 conversation with a doctor about that?
10 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm asking him if any physician
11 made the statements that Harrison made to him prior
12 to the time that he made the decision not to treat
13 Terry's bladder infection.
14 MR. NILSSON: Well, I agree that was your
15 question, and I had four or five different objections
16 I made to it, all of which I think are proper. You
17 know, and I think -- I really think the witness was
18 mislead. If you have a specific question -- if you
19 want to ask about the --
20 MR. SHEEHAN: That was my question.
21 MR. NILSSON: I have the same objection. Overly
22 broad. It's vague. It's ambiguous. It's compound.
23 It covers a lot of different things that we talked
24 about Harrison, none of which this witness can hold
25 in his mind for one moment and give you a direct
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37
1 response. And it's very unfair to this witness.
2 If you want to ask about prior treatment, if he
3 ever talked to a doctor about it, ask him that, Jim,
4 and he'll tell you. But, you know, to throw
5 everything in one bag and hope he picks the right
6 thing, I think is unfair and improper.
7 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
8 Q Let me see if we can start over again in all
9 fairness to the witness.
10 Prior to your making -- you know, the decision
11 that we're talking about, the decision that you made not
12 to treat your wife's bladder infection --
13 A Uh-huh.
14 Q Okay?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Prior to your making that decision, had any
17 physician ever suggested to you that if she has an
18 infection in the future, that you don't treat it or that
19 you allow her to die?
20 MR. NILSSON: Compound.
21 BY THE DEPONENT:
22 A Well, I went and talked to Doctor Mulroy about
23 it.
24 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
25 Q And what was Doctor Mulroy's advice to you, if
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38
1 any?
2 A Not to treat the infection.
3 Q Okay. That was his advice?
4 A Uh-huh.
5 Q So your answer is yes, Doctor Mulroy had advised
6 you the same as Doctor Harrison advised you?
7 A (Nodding affirmatively.)
8 MR. NILSSON: Objection.
9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
10 Q As to not treating the infection?
11 MR. SHEEHAN: How's that? Strike the question.
12 I'd like to take a little break at this point.
13 MR. NILSSON: That's fine.
14 (Whereupon, there was a short recess held.)
15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
16 Q Do you know if your wife, Terry, has a living
17 will?
18 A No.
19 Q No, she doesn't?
20 A She doesn't have a living will.
21 Q When you say that you've taken some action based
22 on what she would have wanted, is that based on what you
23 think she would have wanted?
24 A It's based on what she would want.
25 Q How do you determine what she would want?
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39
1 A She was my wife. I lived with her. We shared
2 things. We shared a bed. We shared our thoughts. And
3 one incident in particular, a few years back when her
4 grandmother was -- Grandmother Shindler -- she was in and
5 out of a coma. She was in. She was out. She was real
6 sick. And we'd go see her, and we had a vacation planned,
7 to come here to Florida; myself, my brother and my wife.
8 So when we left, her grandmother was still
9 critical. We left, got on the train, and we had this
10 conversation about her grandmother and things like that.
11 And we started talking about her uncle, her uncle Fred,
12 who had lost his wife and child tragically in a train
13 wreck. And he was on an emotional roller coaster. He was
14 a very distraught person, agreeably, after losing your
15 wife and child on a train wreck.
16 And, I guess, I believe he went out one night had
17 a few drinks and wrapped his car around a telephone pole.
18 And her uncle was in a coma for awhile and emerged a man
19 that she never knew anymore. He was disabled. He can't
20 walk. He can't do things for himself. His kids are his
21 Power of Attorney now. We got into discussion about that
22 and she said to me, I would never want to live like that.
23 I would want to just die.
24 Q So what you're saying is from that conversation,
25 you have determined that you know what she would want in
___
40
1 these circumstances?
2 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Argumentative.
3 Misstates the testimony which was other things beyond
4 that conversation, but that was the main thing.
5 BY THE DEPONENT:
6 A I'm sorry?
7 MR. SHEEHAN: Can you repeat the question.
8 (Whereupon, the pertinent portion of the Record was read
9 back by the Court Reporter.)
10 BY THE DEPONENT:
11 A Yes.
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q And you think that she would have wanted to die?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Have you made the statement that at any time, to
16 the Schindler's or -- to the Schindler's, that you didn't
17 want Terry to come out of the coma because it would not be
18 in her better interest?
19 A I made that comment, yes.
20 Q Tell me what you meant by that comment.
21 A At the point of the coma that Terry's in now,
22 she's a total quadriplegic. Okay? In my own feelings, if
23 Terry were to wake up and see herself the way she is now,
24 she wouldn't even want to live like that.
25 Q Who has told you that she is a total
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41
1 quadriplegic?
2 A I can't remember the doctor's name, but back in
3 probate, when I was -- the doctor was testifying in front
4 of the judge, he mentioned that Terry was a total
5 quadriplegic. You'd have to pull records on that one.
6 Q Has a physician told you that even if she comes
7 out of the coma that she will be a total quadriplegic?
8 A I believe Doctor Barras said that to me once.
9 Q And that's the basis for your statement that
10 she'd be better off not coming out of the coma?
11 MR. NILSSON: Objection, misstates. Vague and
12 ambiguous. As to what, the statement of Doctor
13 Barras? The question is vague as to what you infer,
14 in fact, was the basis.
15 MR. SHEEHAN: I'll withdraw the question.
16 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
17 Q Did Doctor Yingling -- when he was here in
18 Florida seeing Terry -- did he ever suggest that she be
19 taken to Shands Clinic in Gainesville for neurological
20 testing?
21 A No.
22 Q Was she ever taken to Shands for neurological
23 testing?
24 A No.
25 Q Did Doctor Yingling find any change whatsoever in
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42
1 Terry's condition from the findings of Doctor Hosobuchi?
2 MR. NILSSON: Objection to the extent you're
3 asking what the doctor found. The doctor is the one
4 who has knowledge of it. This witness hasn't been
5 shown to have knowledge of it. You're asking what
6 the doctors told this witness?
7 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
8 Q To your knowledge; to your knowledge?
9 A To my knowledge?
10 Q Uh-huh.
11 A He found no change.
12 Q You did discuss that with him, didn't you?
13 A Oh, of course, my mother-in-law was there.
14 Q You asked him specifically was there any change
15 from when Doctor Hosobuchi saw her the previous year?
16 A Uh-huh, yes.
17 Q He replied that there wasn't?
18 A There was, I believe -- and don't hold me to his
19 exact words -- there was minimal change. Nothing
20 significant. Nothing consistent.
21 Q Did you ask him if he had any suggestions for
22 treatment?
23 A I don't recall asking him that.
24 Q Was there any discussions between yourself and
25 the doctor about treatment?
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43
1 A I don't recall. It was two years ago when he was
2 here.
3 Q You don't recall whether he suggested that she
4 have any further treatment?
5 A I think what he wanted to do at the time was get
6 the CP-900 machine from Shands, and it couldn't be done,
7 and it was left at that.
8 Q Explain that to me. He wanted a machine brought
9 down to St. Petersburg --
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q -- from Shands?
12 A That's what I believe he wanted done, yes.
13 Q Was there any problem with taking Terry to Shands
14 rather than having the machine transported?
15 A I think my biggest problem was money.
16 Q Was there -- at least there was a suggestion by
17 the doctor that she be tested neurologically with this
18 machine?
19 A I don't recall if that was a suggestion or not.
20 I think -- I think he was trying to work on getting
21 Mediplex's machine when she was admitted to Mediplex.
22 Q Tell me about this machine. What do you know
23 about it?
24 A Nothing.
25 Q Do you know what the purpose of the testing was?
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44
1 A Brain waves. I believe it was to see what the
2 stimulator was doing.
3 Q Okay. Did the doctor think that this was
4 something that should have been done?
5 MR. NILSSON: Objection as it to what the doctor
6 thought. You can say what the doctor told you.
7 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
8 Q Okay. Fair enough. Did the doctor tell you that
9 he thought this was something that should be done?
10 A Um, I don't recall whether he said that or not.
11 Q Okay. But your recollection is that he wanted
12 the machine to come to St. Petersburg to test Terry?
13 A My recollection is, yes.
14 Q And that didn't happen because?
15 A If I remember correctly, the machine wasn't even
16 at Shands and nobody knew where it was.
17 Q Okay. And you couldn't transport Terry to Shands
18 because you didn't have the money at the time?
19 A Correct.
20 Q You do have the money now?
21 A That's none of your business.
22 MR. NILSSON: Well --
23 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
24 Q It is my business.
25 MR. NILSSON: Are you asking about his personal
___
45
1 funds or the guardian funds for his wife?
2 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm asking him if he has the money
3 to transport his wife.
4 MR. NILSSON: If he personally has money?
5 MR. SHEEHAN: No, he's the guardian and there are
6 guardianship funds. He may not be the trustee, but
7 there is money available.
8 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
9 Q That's my question. There is money available now
10 to transport her to Shands to have that testing done,
11 isn't there?
12 A Yes.
13 Q But that has not been done?
14 A No.
15 Q Is there a reason why that hasn't been done?
16 A I haven't talked to Doctor Yingling in a year and
17 a half.
18 Q Do you have any reason to believe that Doctor
19 Yingling's opinion has changed?
20 A I have no idea what his opinion is.
21 Q Okay. There was some testimony the other day at
22 Mr. Schindler's deposition that you lived with the
23 Schindler's for a period of time. Is that correct?
24 A The Schindler's lived with me in my house.
25 Q Okay. When was that?
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46
1 A The year?
2 Q Yeah.
3 A It's '93 now, maybe '92.
4 Q And approximately how long did you and the
5 Schindler's live together?
6 A We lived at Hermacida approximately a year. We
7 lived at the other house approximately four to six months.
8 Q Can you describe, in general terms, what your
9 relationship with the Schindler's was at that time?
10 A Relationship was fine. They did their thing; I
11 did my thing.
12 Q Were you all working closely together to deal
13 with Terry's treatment?
14 A I think my mother-in-law and I were the only ones
15 that did it. She could do it anyway because if I wasn't
16 there, she didn't get anywhere.
17 Q There was a statement that you and her worked
18 very closely together during this time. Is that a true
19 statement?
20 A For the most part we worked closely.
21 Q What was the purpose of everybody living in the
22 same house?
23 A Well, the suggestion came from my father-in-law.
24 Q And what was the purpose of it?
25 A I believe because he was having financial
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47
1 difficulties and he wanted to get a house together.
2 Q Prior to that you lived in a condo that he
3 owned?
4 A Yes, I did.
5 Q And how long did you live there?
6 A I don't remember, approximately a year maybe.
7 Q Okay. Did you always pay your rent?
8 A Not always.
9 Q Were there times that you didn't pay the rent and
10 your father-in-law let you slide?
11 A Sure.
12 Q There came a time when your relationship with
13 Mary and Bob Schindler deteriorated, is that correct?
14 A Right. Correct.
15 Q And can you pinpoint when that happened?
16 A February 14.
17 Q 1993?
18 A Yes, '93.
19 Q Tell me what happened.
20 A I was sitting in the room doing my studies for
21 EMT.
22 Q What room?
23 A Terry's room. She was sitting in front of me in
24 her chair. I was sitting there studying, and they came in
25 late and I was studying and --
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48
1 Q Was this at the nursing home?
2 A Uh-huh.
3 Q Okay.
4 A And my father-in-law's usual question to me was,
5 how much money am I going to get, is what he said to me.
6 And I said, nobody was going to get any money right now.
7 And he said what do you mean, this is my daughter. And he
8 just went on. And to shut him up, I said, look, I gave
9 all my money to Terry. I don't have any money.
10 He looked at me, pointed his finger at me and
11 then pointed his finger at Terry and said, how much money
12 is she going to give me. I said to him, you'll have to
13 call the guardianship. I'm not the guardian over her
14 property. You'll have to get in touch with the bank.
15 He goes off and says, I'm getting on this
16 guardianship and tell you how to do this. And he walked
17 out of the room and called me a fucking jerk off. That's
18 when I got up, I pushed the bedside table aside. He shut
19 the door. My mother-in-law ran over to the door in
20 between me and the door.
21 I opened the door, and he's standing outside and
22 we went face to face. And he started saying that this is
23 his daughter morally and I said, that's great. He's going
24 to get a lawyer, and he started coming down on me. He's
25 going to get a lawyer. I said, fine, let's get a lawyer.
___
49
1 And I walked down the hallway and I called my lawyer.
2 And I said to him that if he didn't like me
3 making decisions to leave. You own this nursing home now.
4 That's when I went down and called my lawyer.
5 Q Anything else that you recall?
6 A Not at the present time.
7 Q Okay. Did you ever tell Mr. and Mrs. Schindler
8 that they could not come to the nursing home?
9 A I never told them that.
10 Q Did you ever instruct anybody at the nursing home
11 not to provide any information about her -- about Terry's
12 medical condition to the Schindler's after that?
13 A I instructed the nursing home not to give out any
14 information about Terry's medical condition to anybody but
15 me or the doctor.
16 Q When did you make that?
17 A It happened a few weeks after Terry -- or maybe a
18 week after Terry came out of Largo Medical Center.
19 Q Which was when?
20 A It was in March, I believe.
21 Q March of '93?
22 A Yes. Yes, '93.
23 Q Okay. Prior to this altercation -- we will call
24 it an altercation -- of February 14, the relationship that
25 you had with the Schindler's was fairly amicable?
___
50
1 A Yeah, I believe.
2 Q And they -- prior to that time they had access to
3 the medical records and they could talk to the physicians
4 and the nursing home people about their daughter, is that
5 correct?
6 A Correct.
7 Q Okay. And after that period of time that
8 changed, didn't it?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad and
10 ambiguous. Are you talking about the access to the
11 daughter, are you talking about medical information?
12 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm talking about the previous
13 question. Everybody in this room understands it.
14 BY THE DEPONENT:
15 A I don't.
16 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
17 Q I figured you wouldn't?
18 A Why do you say that?
19 MR. NILSSON: Let him rephrase it or whatever. I
20 won't argue with you. I'll make my objection. Ask
21 him understandable questions and I won't object.
22 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
23 Q All right. After the altercation on February 14,
24 1993, the Schindler's were not allowed any information
25 concerning their daughter's immediate condition, is that
___
51
1 correct?
2 A The order was given not to give out any
3 information to anybody but myself or the doctor.
4 Q Okay. And what was -- why was that order given?
5 A Because I figured that -- the nursing home was
6 having problems, first off, with the certified nurses aids
7 giving wrong information out over the phone -- information
8 to family. And second of all, since my in-laws showed no
9 care about showing up or calling me when Terry was in the
10 hospital, I figured they didn't care.
11 Q Explain that. The Schindler's showed no care
12 about what?
13 A Terry being in the hospital in March.
14 Q Are you saying that you didn't think they cared
15 about their daughter at all?
16 A They never showed up.
17 Q So the reason that they were not at the hospital
18 -- because they were not at the hospital in March you
19 decided that they should not ever have any access to her
20 medical records or medical treatment again?
21 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Misstates and
22 missummarizes the witness's prior testimony about all
23 the events leading up to that point in time.
24 MR. SHEEHAN: Is that right?
25 MR. NILSSON: If you agree with exactly what he
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52
1 said, say it. If you disagree, say it.
2 BY THE DEPONENT:
3 A I agree.
4 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
5 Q When you made the decision that you were not
6 going to treat Terry's infection and you were going to in
7 effect allow her to die, did you think that you had any
8 obligation to tell her parents?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection to the extent it calls
10 for a legal conclusion, what the law is and
11 everything like that.
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q I'm not asking for legal conclusion.
14 A To answer the question, I probably would have let
15 them know sooner or later.
16 Q You never did let them know, though, did you?
17 A No.
18 Q When you say you would probably would have let
19 them know sooner or later, were you contemplating a
20 certain time frame when you would let them know?
21 A I don't know what my thoughts were right then.
22 Q Okay. What was the -- what is the name of the
23 nursing home where Terry is presently residing?
24 A Sable Palms Health Care Center.
25 Q And how long has she been there?
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53
1 A Two years, three months.
2 Q Are you satisfied with the treatment she's been
3 given there?
4 A Not all the time.
5 Q Have you had any particular problems at the
6 nursing home?
7 A I've had quite a few particular problems.
8 Q Can you tell us what those problems are?
9 MR. NILSSON: Let me raise this objection, Jim,
10 you know, looking at the pleadings in your petition,
11 and I've been trying to certainly give you leeway to
12 cover the things that you've alleged, you've not
13 alleged; directly or indirectly, that I can see any
14 problem may exist on the nursing home.
15 I know on the notice you invited a person from
16 the nursing home personnel to be here to sit at this
17 deposition. This is my position. It's not alleged
18 in the petition, and I don't want to go into it,
19 because I think it's outside the scope of what the
20 pleadings allege.
21 It's not directed, that I can see, to obtain
22 relevant information. It's not reasonably calculated
23 to lead to admissible evidence.
24 If you want to make an allegation that somehow
25 this is relevant to what you're seeking, or if the
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54
1 nursing home wants to do something, then it's seems,
2 to me, we can get into all those things.
3 As the pleadings stand, I really don't see it.
4 Right now I'm about to instruct the witness not to
5 answer. But I'm certainly willing to listen to what
6 you have to say.
7 MR. SHEEHAN: Let me just say a few things.
8 MR. NILSSON: Okay.
9 MR. SHEEHAN: This is discovery. I'm entitled to
10 ask any questions which may reasonably be calculated
11 to lead to discoverable evidence. Certainly the
12 relationship between the guardian and the nursing
13 home and what occurs at the nursing home is
14 discoverable in determining the fitness of the
15 guardian, whether there is an allegation about it or
16 not because this is discovery.
17 And the question overall here concerns the
18 ability of the guardian to remain as guardian. Also,
19 you can place an objection as to relevancy and
20 materiality, but you cannot instruct the witness not
21 to answer unless there is a ground privilege. Your
22 objection is noted. I'm entitled to inquire.
23 MR. NILSSON: The Second D.C. case is right on
24 point. It says if it's outside what's reasonable may
25 be evidence in this case, and this is over and above
___
55
1 what the rule says, you can't get it.
2 I'll get the case out right now and give it to
3 you if you want me to do that. Your pleadings state
4 what your case is and, you know, I'm not saying
5 you're sitting here trying to get in --
6 MR. SHEEHAN: I can amend my pleadings any time,
7 I'm in discovery. If I file a complaint, I'm allowed
8 to inquire about all events surrounding the subject
9 matter of my complaint, even though it's not
10 specifically stated in my complaint.
11 And if after further discovery, I need to amend
12 my complaint at a later time, I can do that. You
13 cannot tell me that because something's not in my
14 complaint, that I can't ask about it and amend my
15 pleadings later. That's ridiculous.
16 MR. NILSSON: I think I can. How is it relevant
17 to what you've got plead?
18 MR. SHEEHAN: You've got to decide whether you're
19 going to instruct the witness not to answer or not.
20 I think it's certainly relevant. His relationship
21 with the nursing home is certainly relevant.
22 MR. NILSSON: I'm going to instruct him not to
23 answer, for the reasons stated. If you want to
24 allege that he has some problem with the nursing home
25 that keeps him discharging his duties, alleged, if
___
56
1 you want to make them right now into the record, I'll
2 let you make the amendment and you can get into it.
3 Without the allegation, I'm not going to let you go
4 fishing for things. I'm just not.
5 MR. SHEEHAN: Well, I will say this on the
6 record. Evidence has appeared, has come to me, that
7 there may be a problem, and I think I have a right to
8 inquire about it. For me to say absolutely there is
9 problem, without inquiring about it, I think is
10 something that I should not do.
11 MR. NILSSON: I appreciate that, but for me to
12 have my witness exposed to, you know, who knows what,
13 without him being fairly on notice from the pleading,
14 I think is not right either.
15 MR. SHEEHAN: I'll put you on notice right now
16 there has been statements made to me that there is a
17 problem with his relationship with the nursing home.
18 What that is specifically, I don't know.
19 That's why we have the depositions set of the
20 nursing home people, and that's why we have Mike
21 Schiavo's deposition set. And I don't know what
22 those problems are, but I'm entitled to inquire about
23 them, because they affect the specific issue of
24 whether he's qualified to be a guardian.
25 Now there may be an allegation. I'll make an
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57
1 allegation right now to solve your dilemma. I'm
2 alleging right now that he's not qualified to be
3 guardian for, not only the reasons expressed in the
4 petition, but because he his having problems at the
5 nursing home and because of his relationship and his
6 nature with the nursing home people, it effects his
7 ability --
8 MR. NILSSON: To properly care for his wife?
9 MR. SHEEHAN: -- to properly care for his wife.
10 MR. NILSSON: Okay. Subject to that allegation
11 that you have amended, it's appropriate form to put
12 it in writing, but with it having been stated, ask
13 him.
14 MR. SHEEHAN: Let me say this, if the facts don't
15 bear that out, I'm not going to amend.
16 MR. NILSSON: I don't think they will, but go
17 ahead. That's fine. Restate it.
18 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
19 Q Okay. Now you indicated that you have had
20 problems at the nursing home from time to time, and I
21 think my last question to you is: What problems have you
22 had?
23 A With the care of my wife.
24 Q Can you be more specific?
25 A Well, I don't have all the grievances in front of
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58
1 me, but let's see. Maybe, the one --
2 MR. NILSSON: Let me interject. We do have
3 grievances outside. He just referred to them in
4 advance. I'll be glad to go get them and bring them
5 in here and, maybe, give you more specific
6 information.
7 MR. SHEEHAN: Sure.
8 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
9 MR. NILSSON: Do you want me to give it to him or
10 to you?
11 MR. SHEEHAN: Well --
12 MR. NILSSON: Ask your question, see if he's
13 referred to the grievances in it.
14 MR. SHEEHAN: Can I look at them first before I
15 ask the questions?
16 MR. NILSSON: Do you have all the grievances
17 there?
18 THE DEPONENT: No, Sable Palms hasn't come up
19 with the first year's. This is '93.
20 MR. NILSSON: We've handed Mr. Sheehan a number
21 of photocopy pages of, what are they, Mike?
22 THE DEPONENT: They're called grievance
23 procedures.
24 MR. NILSSON: Okay.
25 MR. SHEEHAN: Do you think it would be okay if I
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59
1 got copies of these?
2 MR. NILSSON: I don't.
3 THE DEPONENT: I don't if you don't.
4 MR. SHEEHAN: If we got allegations, we will be
5 glad to provide that to you.
6 Okay. Let me just state, on the record, that
7 I've been handed a number of documents entitled
8 grievance procedures and I've gone through several of
9 them and counsel agreed to provide me a copy. At a
10 later time, after I've reviewed them, I may want to
11 continue the deposition just for the specific purpose
12 of going through these particular documents, do you
13 have any objection to that?
14 MR. NILSSON: I do. If you wanted to do a
15 subpoena duces tecum or a notice of taking deposition
16 duces tecum to Mike and have received these records
17 previously and done your deposition, you were free to
18 do that.
19 You just learned it. I'm trying to cooperate by
20 providing the records. I'm not saying I wouldn't
21 agree to it. But I'm not going to sit here and say I
22 would. It's not the easiest thing for Mike to come
23 and have to do. And I don't know if I want to put
24 him through another day of depositions.
25 MR. SHEEHAN: I understand.
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60
1 MR. NILSSON: Do the best you can with the
2 records right now and we'll address it.
3 MR. SHEEHAN: I understand. I just wanted to put
4 you on notice of it.
5 MR. NILSSON: Okay. Fair enough.
6 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
7 Q Mr. Schiavo, you provided me with a number of
8 documents entitled grievance procedures and, as I
9 understand it, these are grievances that you filed with
10 the nursing home regarding their -- in general, regarding
11 their failure to perform proper functions with regard to
12 your wife's treatment, is that correct?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Who at the nursing home do you deal with?
15 A I deal -- basically, I made a deal with Elaine
16 Nelson and Bev Bule (phonetic). If I had a problem I'd
17 come see them.
18 Q Anybody else?
19 A No. That was the deal I made. I'd come see Bev
20 and Elaine.
21 Q Is it your feeling that you have a personality
22 problem with some people at the nursing home?
23 A No. I don't have a personality problem with the
24 people at the nursing home.
25 Q Have you had arguments with anybody?
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61
1 A Oh, yeah.
2 Q Who have you had arguments with?
3 A Terry Russell.
4 Q When you said that you made --
5 MR. NILSSON: Well, let me ask that the witness
6 be allowed -- you asked him a question. He answered
7 one. He was not finished, I don't believe.
8 MR. SHEEHAN: Oh, I'm sorry.
9 MR. NILSSON: I don't want it to appear later
10 that he only said one name. If he's got additional
11 information, please let him finish.
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q I'm sorry were you finished?
14 A No. I've had some mild talking with Elaine
15 Nelson. I've had some mild talking with Bev Bule. And I
16 believe I had loud talking with one nurse a long time ago.
17 Q And you don't remember her name?
18 A Judy O'Brien.
19 Q Okay. When you said that now you deal with
20 Elaine Nelson and Bev Bule, is it?
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q By agreement, are you saying that you, for some
23 reason, you and the nursing home have agreed that you're
24 not going to deal with Terry Russell anymore?
25 A I deal with Terry Russell, but Terry Russell got
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1 a new job now. He's not the administrator anymore.
2 Q He's not at the nursing home anymore?
3 A He's on the third floor of the ACLF. He does
4 something else.
5 Q But the reason that you don't deal with him is
6 because he has a new job and not any --
7 A No, I usually -- go ahead and finish your
8 question.
9 Q Not any personality conflict that you had with
10 him?
11 MR. NILSSON: Are you talking about right now as
12 he sits here?
13 MR. SHEEHAN: Yes.
14 BY THE DEPONENT:
15 A No, I don't have any personality conflict with
16 Terry Russell. I've even told him that.
17 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
18 Q But the arguments that you've had at the nursing
19 home have been with Terry Russell?
20 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Misstates his
21 testimony. He mentioned several people.
22 MR. SHEEHAN: He said he had arguments with Terry
23 Russell and loud talking with these other people.
24 BY THE DEPONENT:
25 A I had one argument with Terry Russell, and the
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1 rest was loud talking.
2 Q When was the argument?
3 A The argument was back in -- don't quote me the
4 month -- but that's when I asked my mother and
5 father-in-law to come in and settle it. That's with Judy
6 O'Brien. Wife was spiking a fever. I asked her to call
7 the doctor. Judy O'Brien got in my face and I got in her
8 face. Then I went down and got loud with Terry Russell.
9 Q And then --
10 A That was the argument I had with Terry Russell in
11 the middle of the floor.
12 Q And you said that you asked the Schindler's to
13 come in and --
14 A I called my mother-in-law and I said to her, you
15 know, I can't get anything done in here. You guys come
16 and smooth this out.
17 Q Did they do that?
18 A I don't know whether they smoothed it out or not.
19 My father-in-law told me that I should start keeping notes
20 about everything that happens around here.
21 Q When was the next time you went into the nursing
22 home after that argument?
23 A The next day.
24 Q Was everything taken care of?
25 A No. I had taken Terry out into the lounge where
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1 I usually sit and we'd sit and talk. And Terry started
2 choking real bad, so Patrick, the physical therapist at
3 the time that was there, came over and said, do I need
4 help. I said, yes, please get a nurse.
5 He ran around the corner, got a nurse that
6 happened to be Judy O'Brien. Judy O'Brien came around the
7 corner, looked at me, and left. I had to wait for another
8 nurse to come up and help Terry.
9 Q So what did you do?
10 A I helped Terry as much as I could till the nurse
11 got there.
12 Q What did you do about that situation?
13 A I went and got angry about it with Bev Bule. I
14 told her, you know, she can have all the grief she wants
15 with me. She has patient care to do. That's walking away
16 from a choking patient. And Terry Russell's comment that
17 day was, if you don't like the care here, leave.
18 Q Is there any reason why you haven't left there?
19 A Because I shouldn't have to leave the nursing
20 home. I like the nursing home overall. It's a beautiful
21 place.
22 Q Has the nursing home ever had discussions with
23 you -- let me strike that. Is the reason that you don't
24 want to leave the nursing home because it is a facility
25 that adequately takes care of Terry?
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1 A That's one of the reasons adequately.
2 Q Do you think that it is the best facility in the
3 area to keep her?
4 A It's the cleanest and the brightest and the
5 prettiest facility in the area.
6 Q Are there any other facilities that you'd rather
7 see her in?
8 A No.
9 Q So you think it's the best?
10 A It's the cleanest, the brightest and it's the
11 cleanest. I didn't say it was the best.
12 Q Is there a better one that you know of?
13 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Can you clarify when
14 you say best in terms of, what, medical treatment or
15 number of nurses on staff?
16 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm talking about overall.
17 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
18 Q When you evaluate where you want somebody to be,
19 you're going to consider each and every factor to
20 determine which is the best place for her to be. That's
21 what built into my question. Do you consider that overall
22 to be the best place for her to be?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Have you had any discussions with the people at
25 the nursing home, in particular Terry Russell, Elaine
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1 Nelson, Bev Bule, in which they have indicated to you that
2 they may remove Terry from the nursing home because of
3 your behavior?
4 A I haven't had any of those, no. Matter of fact,
5 Terry Russell said, I don't want Terry to leave.
6 Q No one had indicated to you --
7 A Nobody has indicated that to me.
8 Q Okay. The lawsuit that was filed against the
9 doctor who treated your wife. When was that, when was the
10 verdict entered, do you know?
11 A When was the verdict entered?
12 Q Uh-huh.
13 A November tenth.
14 Q 1992?
15 A Uh-huh. Right.
16 Q Do you recall what the verdict was?
17 A Um, they found --
18 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Best evidence. Answer
19 to the best of your ability.
20 BY THE DEPONENT:
21 A To the best of my knowledge, and what I remember,
22 they found Terry 70 percent negligent and Igel 30 percent.
23 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
24 Q What was the total damage award to Terry? Or let
25 me ask this: What was the net damage award to Terry?
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1 MR. NILSSON: Same objection. Best evidence.
2 You're saying how much money actually was going to be
3 paid to Terry or her guardianship?
4 MR. SHEEHAN: Exactly.
5 BY THE DEPONENT:
6 A After everybody else was paid off?
7 MR. NILSSON: Taking out attorneys' fees and
8 all --
9 BY THE DEPONENT:
10 A Attorneys' fees?
11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
12 Q Yeah. No just give me the net award.
13 MR. NILSSON: What the jury awarded as a total
14 figure that was going to be paid to Terry's
15 guardianship.
16 BY THE DEPONENT:
17 A I think one point two. Don't quote me on one
18 point two.
19 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
20 Q One point two million?
21 A Don't quote me on that.
22 Q There was an award to you, also, correct?
23 A Correct.
24 Q What was the amount of that award?
25 A Um, I think before the 70 was taken out,
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1 something like two point one.
2 Q Two point one?
3 A Million.
4 Q It was a personal award to you, two point one
5 million?
6 A If I'm saying that right, if I understood it
7 right, the way they did it.
8 MR. NILSSON: Same objection. Best evidence.
9 BY THE DEPONENT:
10 A I really don't know how they did the numbers.
11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
12 Q Okay.
13 A I mean, I'm not a mathematician.
14 Q Well, what I'm asking is: How much did you
15 receive as result of this verdict? Did you receive two
16 point four million dollars?
17 A No. No. I ended up with like 300,000.
18 Q Okay. You were here at the deposition the other
19 day when Mr. Schindler had said that there was an
20 agreement that you and the Schindler's were going to share
21 whatever award you personally received as a result of that
22 lawsuit? Do you recall that testimony?
23 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Misstates the prior
24 testimony. I think it was a commitment.
25 BY THE DEPONENT:
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1 A I don't remember it word for word.
2 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
3 Q But you do recall in general?
4 A I recall something of that, yeah.
5 Q Okay. Was there ever any type of commitment on
6 your part to the Schindler's to share your portion of any
7 award?
8 A No, there was not.
9 Q Was there ever any discussion about that, to your
10 knowledge?
11 A Of an award of money?
12 Q Yes.
13 A There was some possibilities of what we would do
14 with Terry if there was enough money there.
15 Q Tell me what those discussions were.
16 A That's was back in the Roland Lamb days, when
17 Roland Lamb had the case.
18 Q Is that the attorney with --
19 A Glen Woodworth. And Roland would tell us this
20 case was worth 15, 20 million dollars. With that we were
21 shooting around, you know, how nice Terry could live and,
22 you know.
23 And then the case went bust and belly up. And
24 Roland left, and there was no commitments. I didn't even
25 know if I was going to get any money or if Terry was going
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1 to get any money. Glen Woodworth told me that a million
2 times, don't count on anything.
3 Q Did you ever make the statement to either Bob or
4 Mary Schindler, to either of them, that if I receive my
5 money in this lawsuit, I'm going to share it with you?
6 A No.
7 Q Did you ever make a statement similar to that?
8 A No.
9 Q Were there discussions between yourself and the
10 Schindler's about using the money, if you received any
11 money from the lawsuit, to either rent or purchase a house
12 where Terry would actually live with her parents?
13 A There was discussions about that. That was back
14 in the Roland Lamb days when, you know, the 15, 20 million
15 dollars was there. and it kind of like, faded away.
16 When it came up again, my father-in-law wanted to
17 purchase a house with a separate apartment for Terry, so
18 the nurses would have a separate room for the nurses to go
19 in.
20 MR. NILSSON: Objection, unless the witness has
21 finished his answer.
22 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
23 Q Were you finished?
24 A Yeah.
25 Q What was your thoughts about that, about that
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1 arrangement, about Terry living at home with her mother
2 and father?
3 A I wasn't crazy about that. We've had Terry home
4 before, and I took care of her. My father-in-law would
5 tell me all the time that this isn't working out because
6 your mother-in-law is getting upset. She doesn't like to
7 be with Terry at home. She needs to be with professional
8 people.
9 I was the one that used to fight it. I was the
10 one that said, no, I'll take care of her. No, I'll do it.
11 I'll do it. My father-in-law never lifted one finger to
12 help out. I was the one in the -- got up in the middle of
13 the night, every night, checking on Terry. I was the one
14 that slept in her room.
15 Q How long was she at home?
16 A The first time she was home for about four months
17 with us.
18 Q And why did she go back to the nursing home?
19 A Because we could not do it. It got to be too
20 much.
21 Q But you tried it again after that?
22 A She went to Mediplex after that and came home
23 about nine days. We hired round-the-clock nurses.
24 Q After that first time, you feel that you had all
25 reached the conclusion you really couldn't handle her at
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1 home?
2 A I didn't reach that conclusion. I would have
3 liked to brought her home again.
4 Q Why didn't you?
5 A Because it was too much work. I would have like
6 to brought her home, but it was too much work.
7 Q So you did reach the conclusion that it was too
8 much work?
9 A Well, yes. Yes.
10 Q When did you quit work again at Augustino's? I
11 can't remember the exact date you said.
12 A I don't remember the exact dates either. It had
13 to be maybe -- I'd stayed with Terry in ICU -- it was 16
14 days and nights before I even left ICU. Um, I think
15 maybe 15 days later I went back to work and I was with
16 them for about another month.
17 Q So it would be approximately sometime in March or
18 April of --
19 A Probably more towards the end of April.
20 Q -- of 1990?
21 A '91 it would have to be. February, March. Don't
22 hold me to the dates. I'm not good with dates.
23 Q When did you receive any money as a result of the
24 lawsuit?
25 A When?
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1 Q Uh-huh.
2 A Glen Woodworth gave me a check approximately, I
3 think it was a month after.
4 Q So it would be approximately December of '92?
5 A Well, no, it had to be in January, 'cause --
6 yeah, it had to be longer than that.
7 Q What did you live on between April of '91 and
8 January of '93?
9 A Some money that I had. I collected Terry's life
10 insurance; lived on that. Terry and I had some money
11 saved. It was scrimping. My parents helped me out a
12 little bit.
13 Q What money did you use for Terry's treatment?
14 A We had fundraisers for that.
15 Q Can you tell me a little bit about those
16 fundraisers?
17 A It was a bunch of stuff went on. I sat on the
18 beach for two or three weeks selling hotdogs out of a
19 truck, raising money that way, sold pretzels at the beach
20 fest, that way.
21 I went on the T.V. and the news. We got
22 responses that way. Um, some of the neighbors pitched in.
23 We had a Valentine's Day dance for her. When I was out in
24 California, they had a, luminary-type thing, sold wax bags
25 and put sand in it and put a candle in it, stuff like
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1 that.
2 Q Do you know how much money you raised on the
3 fundraiser s?
4 A Offhand, don't hold me to it, but 20,000, maybe,
5 I'm not sure. I'd have to look at records.
6 Q Was it -- was it put in a separate trust?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q And who was the trustee of that trust?
9 A My mother-in-law and me, and couple of people
10 from Vina Del Mar Association had to be on it.
11 Q And where was that trust account?
12 A First Union Bank.
13 Q Did you and Terry also have a bank account,
14 separate bank accounts?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q Where was that at?
17 A First Union.
18 Q Did you also have a savings account?
19 A Just checking.
20 Q Okay. Did you only have one checking account?
21 A Uh-huh.
22 Q Do you know what the trust account at First Union
23 Bank was called?
24 A Theresa Schiavo Trust Fund.
25 MR. NILSSON: Let me interpose an objection to
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1 relevancy. Is this somehow tied in to the
2 allegations that he's not properly taking care of his
3 wife right now?
4 MR. SHEEHAN: What I'm trying to do is, I'm
5 trying to find out how he was living, find out if he
6 was using any of the trust funds?
7 MR. NILSSON: Does that relate to any of the
8 petitions to get her moved?
9 MR. SHEEHAN: I think that would have some
10 relation.
11 MR. NILSSON: You tell me. I don't see it at
12 all. It's not alleged and --
13 MR. SHEEHAN: Well, let me just -- we have
14 alleged that -- we have alleged that there is a real
15 potential conflict of interest and the conflict
16 involves money, it involves his relationship and, you
17 know --
18 MR. NILSSON: As an heir, that's what you say
19 specifically?
20 MR. SHEEHAN: Correct. But I think it is
21 relevant to inquire, at least to determine what his
22 motivation in the future is as to what he's done in
23 the past. That's certainly relevant.
24 MR. NILSSON: Let me think about that one for
25 just a minute.
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1 MR. SHEEHAN: I really only have one or two
2 questions.
3 MR. NILSSON: Go ahead.
4 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
5 Q Did you ever use any of the funds from the
6 Theresa Schiavo Trust Fund for your own personal living
7 expenses?
8 A Absolutely not.
9 Q When you went to California, who paid for that
10 trip?
11 A Theresa's trust fund.
12 Q And it paid for your expenses out there?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Your daily rent, food, et cetera, did the trust
15 fund pay for any of that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q So the trust fund really did pay for your
18 daily --
19 A In that instance, yes.
20 Q Okay. When you were not in California, when you
21 were at home in St. Petersburg, did that trust fund money,
22 was that used for rent or food?
23 A No, absolutely not.
24 Q What specifically was it used for?
25 A Well, it was used for the trip to California.
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1 Okay. It was used to pay College Harbor Nursing Home. It
2 was used to pay the round the clock nursing care we had
3 when I came home. It was used for some various things
4 that Terry needed. I didn't spend a dime of it on myself.
5 Q Were there any other -- was there any other
6 source of income that you or Terry was receiving at that
7 time other than the trust fund or your own personal
8 savings?
9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. The question is
10 compound. It's vague and it's ambiguous. It
11 missummarizes the prior testimony. He just testified
12 that that trust fund was not a source of income to
13 him and Terry, yet you filtered that in to your
14 question. I think the question is highly improper
15 and can even be answered by the witness. But if you
16 think you can answer it, answer it.
17 BY THE DEPONENT:
18 A There was no money spent on myself.
19 MR. SHEEHAN: That's not my question. And your
20 objection is well taken.
21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
22 Q Were you or was your wife receiving any income at
23 that time? And I'll leave the question at that.
24 MR. NILSSON: At what time?
25 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
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1 Q During the period of time from 1991 when you left
2 your employment to January of 1993?
3 MR. NILSSON: On other than what he's already
4 testified to?
5 MR. SHEEHAN: Yeah. He's testified that there
6 was a trust fund which he did not use for anything
7 other than Terry's care, that there was some funds
8 that you had saved.
9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
10 Q Was there any other source of income?
11 MR. NILSSON: Let me raise this objection.
12 Sources of income, you know, are -- you had gainful
13 employment, so he was receiving a salary. Are you
14 talking about interest income, dividends? Are you
15 talking about the savings account. If he's got a
16 thousand dollars in savings, he pulls $50 out, do you
17 consider that to be income?
18 MR. SHEEHAN: No. I'm talking about any income
19 from stocks, bonds --
20 MR. NILSSON: Ask him that.
21 MR. SHEEHAN: -- social security.
22 MR. NILSSON: Did you have any income from stocks
23 and bonds?
24 BY THE DEPONENT:
25 A I had social security, Terry's social security
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1 check, yes, which was given to me to help live. And this
2 -- that didn't happen for awhile because I was receiving
3 -- Terry couldn't get social security.
4 That's why she couldn't get on Medicaid or
5 Medicare because she was receiving her monthly paycheck as
6 a benefit when you become disabled, you still receive your
7 pay check. Now, I do remember that, I was receiving her
8 paycheck.
9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
10 Q Any stocks or bonds?
11 A No. No.
12 Q So if I understand it, the only source of income
13 that you had during this period of time would have been
14 her paycheck from work for a year?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q Her social security check --
17 A She didn't have a social security check then.
18 Q I understand. That came about a year later?
19 A Right.
20 Q But it was during -- she was receiving some
21 social security during this period of time, 1991 to 1993?
22 A Didn't start till like nine -- middle of '92 she
23 started getting it. Like I said, she was receiving her
24 paycheck.
25 Q Her paycheck, her social security, whenever it
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1 kicked in, and whatever savings that you had?
2 A Right.
3 Q Whatever savings you had would have been
4 reflected in your checking account at First Union Bank?
5 A Should be.
6 MR. SHEEHAN: If we can just take another quick
7 break, I think I'm just be done.
8 MR. NILSSON: Sure.
9 (Whereupon, there was a short recess held.)
10 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
11 Q What did you do with your wife's jewelry?
12 A My wife's jewelry?
13 Q Yeah.
14 A Um, I think I took her engagement ring and her --
15 what do they call it -- diamond wedding band and made a
16 ring for myself.
17 Q Okay. Anything else? Did you make any other
18 jewelry for yourself?
19 A No, just that.
20 Q What did you do with her cats?
21 A Her cats were put to sleep on the advice of my
22 mother-in-law.
23 Q Did you open a safe deposit box at First Union in
24 1992?
25 A Uh-huh.
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1 Q Did you put ten thousand dollars into that?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And where did you get that money from?
4 A That was the living needs benefit that I received
5 from Terry.
6 Q What was that life insurance?
7 A Uh-huh. It was a couple of checks, and I stuck
8 them in there for safekeeping.
9 Q Anything else that you put in there?
10 MR. NILSSON: Objection.
11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
12 Q I'll withdraw the question.
13 It's my understanding that you, at least at one
14 time, were treating with a psychiatrist?
15 A Right.
16 Q Who is that?
17 A Doctor Peter Kaplan.
18 Q Are you still treating with him?
19 A No.
20 Q Was this something that -- I mean, the treatment
21 that you received, was this because of what happened to
22 your wife?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And was it for a temporary period of time?
25 A Yes.
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1 Q How long was it for?
2 A Couple years, on, off.
3 Q And now you don't see the doctor?
4 A No. I haven't seen him in over a year.
5 Q Are you on medication?
6 A None.
7 Q At one time were you on medication?
8 A I was prescribed medication, I picked it up and
9 never took it.
10 Q What type medication were you prescribed?
11 A I was on -- I took some, Welbutron one time, some
12 Pamelor. I was on Elavil or Prozac, but I never took the
13 medication. I used to fight the doctors all the time, the
14 family doctor, Doctor Kaplan.
15 Q Let's go back over the medication again. What
16 medications were you prescribed by the doctors, if you
17 recall?
18 A Welbutron, Pamelor, Elavil, Prozac. That's all I
19 can recall. Not all at the same time.
20 Q That's my next question. Were these all
21 prescribed at different times?
22 A Yes. They're like -- maybe, he would prescribe
23 them when I got real down. I mean it's -- I'm talking
24 spans between each one.
25 Q Was there any reason why the doctor changed the
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1 medication?
2 A Because a lot of it made me sick to my stomach.
3 A lot of it was clouding my thoughts and I didn't like
4 that. It's an artificial stimulant, and I didn't want to
5 be artificially stimulated.
6 Q You took at least some of it?
7 A Some, but nothing to become addicted, if you want
8 to use that word.
9 Q Did the doctor change your medication from, say,
10 Melabutron to Pamelor --
11 A Welabutron --
12 Q -- to Pamelor at your request?
13 A I called him up and told him I wasn't feeling
14 well on these pills. And he says, well, let's try this.
15 Q Is that what occurred also from, when Pamelor was
16 changed to Elavil?
17 A A lot of them were making me sick to my stomach.
18 Q What about when you were prescribed Prozac?
19 A I don't think -- I think I got the prescription
20 filled, but I don't think I ever took it.
21 Q But you did take the others?
22 A One or two pills, three maybe, never took a whole
23 prescription.
24 Q Did you ever express to Mr. Schindler or Mrs.
25 Schindler at any time that you felt like committing
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1 suicide?
2 A Oh, yeah, felt like dying lots of times. Human,
3 you know, a lot of people like to die, you know, expressed
4 that to my own parents.
5 Q When did you express that to them?
6 A When I was down and feeling low and I didn't know
7 how to handle the situation.
8 MR. NILSSON: When in terms of time frame? Can
9 you put a time frame on it?
10 BY THE DEPONENT:
11 A Probably right after this happened to Terry.
12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
13 Q Did that feeling -- I know you said it wasn't a
14 continual feeling but occurred from time to time -- did
15 that feeling occur from time to time over a period of
16 years?
17 A Um, very long time to times.
18 Q When did you stop treating with Doctor Kaplan?
19 A It's been about eight months, nine months now.
20 Q Since you've stopped with the doctor, have you
21 ever had a feeling that you're so low that you wanted to
22 commit suicide?
23 A No.
24 Q When was the last time before you stopped
25 treating with the doctor that you had that feeling?
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1 A Long time ago. Probably -- I can't give you a
2 date or time. I haven't felt it in a very long time,
3 maybe a year, year and two months. I don't know.
4 MR. SHEEHAN: Okay. I don't have any further
5 questions.
6 MR. NILSSON: I've got just a couple questions.
7 CROSS-EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. NILSSON:
9 Q Mr. Sheehan had asked you about your wife's
10 current condition. Is she in a comatose state right now?
11 A Yes, she is.
12 Q Can she feed herself?
13 A No, she can't.
14 Q Can she clothe herself?
15 A No, she can't.
16 Q Can she take a bath by herself?
17 A No, she can't.
18 Q Can she wash herself?
19 A No, she can't.
20 Q Can she maintain her own personal hygiene?
21 A No, she can't.
22 Q Can she go to the toilet by herself?
23 A No, she can't.
24 Q Can she speak?
25 A No, she doesn't.
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1 Q Have you ever discussed with any doctor the use
2 of a do not resuscitate order --
3 A Yes.
4 Q -- concerning your wife?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Which doctor did you discuss that with?
7 A Doctor Mulroy.
8 Q And what did Doctor Mulroy say about that?
9 A Um, that it was feasible to do in her condition.
10 Q Did he say whether, in his opinion, it should be
11 done in her condition?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What did he say?
14 A Just said, you know, somebody in Terry's
15 condition, if she were to have a heart attack, they should
16 let it go through the steps without resuscitating.
17 Q Was there a D and R order ever given for Terry?
18 A Yes.
19 Q As a result of that conversation with Doctor
20 Mulroy?
21 A Yes.
22 Q When was that?
23 A The same time the order was given for no
24 treatment.
25 MR. NILSSON: No further questions.
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1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
3 Q Was that order given by you?
4 A Given by the doctor.
5 Q At your instructions to the doctor?
6 A Yeah. More like not at my instruction as what we
7 were talking about.
8 Q As the guardian, you gave the doctor permission
9 to give that instruction?
10 A Uh-huh, yes.
11 Q You were just talking about Terry's condition.
12 And I want to ask you a question about her response or
13 reaction. Does she know when you are in the room or is
14 there any way that you can tell that she responds to
15 somebody being in the room?
16 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Compound. When you
17 say, does she know if someone's in the room, or do
18 you know if she knows? There's two different points
19 and you're asking the same thing.
20 BY MR. SHEEHAN:
21 Q Let me rephrase it. From your own perceptions,
22 do you think that Terry can perceive when you are in the
23 room or is aware in any way of what's going on around her?
24 A Um, Terry, in my own opinion, has no idea of
25 what's going on.
___
88
1 Q There is no expression or any other indication
2 from her movements that she's aware of anything, is that
3 what you're saying?
4 A Right. The expression that she shows, which God
5 left her with, was the expression of pain, and that has
6 been since Terry's been in the coma. Terry -- they know
7 Terry can feel pain.
8 Q They know she can feel pain?
9 A Oh, yes.
10 Q Who has told you that?
11 A Many of the doctors.
12 Q Has Doctor Mulroy told you that?
13 A Sure.
14 Q Just one final question. What was your
15 relationship with your wife before she went into a coma?
16 A Our relationship was great.
17 Q Did you ever have any problems? Did you ever
18 discuss divorce at any time?
19 A We never discussed divorce. There was no need to
20 discuss it.
21 MR. SHEEHAN: Okay. I have nothing further.
22 MR. NILSSON: No questions. We will read.
23 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm not going to order it.
24 MR. NILSSON: I won't order it either.
25 (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at 3:43 p.m.)
___
89
1
2 STIPULATION
3 It was stipulated by and between counsel and the deponent
4 that the reading and signing of the deposition not be
5 waived.
6
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___
90
1 E R R A T A S H E E T
2 In Re: Schindler v Schiavo Case No. 90-2908-GD
3 DO NOT WRITE ON TRANSCRIPT -- ENTER CHANGES HERE:
4 Page No. Line No. Change
5 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
6 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
7 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
8 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
9 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
10 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
11 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
12 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
13 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/
14 ______________________________
15 MICHAEL SCHIAVO
16
17 STATE OF FLORIDA
18 COUNTY OF PINELLAS
19 I DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT MICHAEL SCHIAVO appeared
20 before me and stated that he has read his deposition;
21 further, that this Errata Sheet was signed in my presence on
22 the ____ day of ________________, 1994.
23 _________________________________
24 Notary Public
25
___
91
1 STATE OF FLORIDA
2 COUNTY OF PASCO
3 I, DEVERAH BIANCO, Court Reporter and Notary Public
4 in and for the State of Florida at Large, DO HEREBY
5 CERTIFY that MICHAEL SCHIAVO was duly sworn by me.
6 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL this 15th day
7 of February, 1994, in the City of the New Port Richey, County
8 of Pasco, State of Florida.
9
<signed>
10 _________________________________
11 Deverah Bianco
12 Notary Public - State of Florida
13 My Commission No.
14
15
<Notary Seal DEVERAH BIANCO>
16 <MY COMMISSION # CC 179034 EXPIRES>
< MARCH 17, 1996 >
17 <BONDED THRU TROY FAIN INSURANCE, INC.>
18
19
20
21
22
23
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25
___
92
1 STATE OF FLORIDA
2 COUNTY OF PASCO
3 I, DEVERAH BIANCO, Court Reporter, DO HEREBY CERTIFY
4 that the foregoing deposition was taken before me at the
5 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand notes
6 were thereafter transcribed into this computer-assisted
7 transcript under my supervision; and the foregoing pages
8 numbered 1 through 91, inclusive, constitute a true and
9 correct record of the testimony given by the deponent.
10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, employee,
11 attorney or counsel of the parties, nor financially
12 interested in the foregoing action.
13 DATED this 15th day of February, 1994
14
<signed>
15 ____________________________
16 DEVERAH BIANCO
17
18 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME this 15th day of
19 February, 1994, by DEVERAH BIANCO, who is personally
20 known to me.
21
<signed>
22 ____________________________
23 Notary Public - State of Florida
24 My Commission No. <OFFICIAL NOTARY SEAL>
< WENDY A LOKAN >
25 <NOTARY PUBLIC STATE OF FLORIDA>
<COMMISSION NO CC103875>
<MY COMMISSION EXP. APR. 29, 1995>
492
posted on
03/31/2004 4:15:40 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: pc93
1 CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY
2 PROBATE DIVISION
CASE NO. 90-2908-GD3
3 ______________________________________
4 IN RE: THE GUARDIANSHIP OF
THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,
5
Incapacitated.
6 ______________________________________
7 MICHAEL SCHIAVO, AS GUARDIAN OF THE
PERSON OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,
8
Petitioner,
9 APPEAL
vs.
10
ROBERT SCHINDLER AND MARY SCHINDLER,
11
Respondents.
12 ______________________________________
13 BEFORE: GEORGE W. GREER
Circuit Court Judge
14
PLACE: Clearwater Courthouse
15 Clearwater, FL 33756
16 DATE: January 24, 2000
17 TIME: 9:00 a.m.
18 REPORTED BY: Beth Ann Erickson, RPR
Court Reporter
19 Notary Public
____________________________________
20
21 TRIAL
____________________________________
22
ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
23 501 South Fort Harrison
Clearwater, Florida 33756
24 (813) 464-4858
Volume I Pages 1 - 175
25
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 GEORGE J. FELOS, ESQUIRE
CONSTANCE FELOS, ESQUIRE
3 640 Douglas Avenue
Dunedin, FL 34698
4
5 Attorneys for Petitioner
6
PAMELA CAMPBELL, ESQUIRE
7 The Alexander Building
535 Central Avenue
8 Suite 403
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
9
10 Attorney for Respondents
11
12 INDEX
Page
13 WITNESS
MICHAEL SCHIAVO
14 Direct Examination by Mr. Felos 20
Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 74
15 Redirect Examination by Mr. Felos 89
16 SCOTT SCHIAVO
Direct Examination by Mr. Felos 90
17 Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 108
Redirect Examination by Mr. Felos 117
18
JAMES BARNHILL, MD
19 Direct Examination by Ms. Felos 121
Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 159
20 Redirect Examination by Ms. Felos 171
21
EXHIBITS - PETITIONER'S
22 Page
Exhibit No. 1 25
23 Exhibit No. 2 25
Exhibit No. 3 56
24 Exhibit No. 4 71
Exhibit No. 5 134
25
3
1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
2 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Circuit Court
3 in and for Pinellas County is now in session with
4 the Honorable George W. Greer, circuit court
5 judge, presiding. Be seated.
6 THE COURT: Good morning. Is the
7 petitioner ready to proceed?
8 MR. FELOS: Yes, we are, Your Honor.
9 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Introduce those at counsel
11 table.
12 MR. FELOS: George Felos, Felos and
13 Felos PA.
14 MS. FELOS: Constance Felos, from the
15 firm of Felos and Felos, PA. This is the
16 petitioner, Michael Schiavo.
17 MS. CAMPBELL: Pam Campbell here
18 representing Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, the parents
19 of Theresa Schiavo and respondent, Bob Schindler,
20 father. My legal assistant, Theresa, and Mrs.
21 Schindler, the mother.
22 THE COURT: Opening statements?
23 MR. FELOS: We do have an opening
24 statement. Before we proceed, I notice there are
25 a number of witnesses here. Does the Court want
4
1 to swear in witnesses now and invoke the rule of
2 witnesses?
3 THE COURT: I'll swear the witnesses in
4 as they take the stand. The Court does not invoke
5 the rule. Do you wish to invoke the rule?
6 MR. FELOS: We wish to invoke the rule.
7 THE COURT: Aside from the parties, is
8 there anyone present that is a witness or intends
9 to be a witness in this case?
10 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Sir, the rule has been
12 invoked, which is a rule of sequestration. What
13 that means is that the only time you can be
14 present in court is when you are testifying. From
15 this point forward, you are not to discuss your
16 testimony with anybody or the facts of this case
17 with anyone other than the lawyers, Ms. Campbell
18 or Mr. Felos -- you can talk to them -- but other
19 than that, you are not to discuss the case with
20 anyone.
21 So the bailiff will show you where you
22 can stay, if you are called to testify. Counsel,
23 be so kind as to advise your other witnesses that
24 the rule has been invoked. Very well. Mr. Felos?
25 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor.
5
1 Your Honor, in this case there are no winners.
2 Whatever the outcome of this case, everyone has
3 lost. A little less than ten years ago, February
4 1990, a beautiful vivacious young woman's heart
5 stopped beating. Her brain was deprived of oxygen
6 and since that time she's existed in a permanent
7 vegetative state, whereas her parents have agreed
8 in the pleadings, it's an irreversible, profoundly
9 debilitating condition.
10 On that day close to ten years ago, my
11 client, Mr. Schiavo, lost the wife he knew. Her
12 parents lost their dreams and hopes of a full life
13 with their daughter and her siblings, and friends
14 lost a shining presence in their lives. So in
15 this case, there is no final judgment order,
16 decree, that can ever bring Theresa Schiavo back.
17 If this Court grants the petition and
18 permits Theresa Schiavo's artificial life support
19 to be removed, all the parties will have to suffer
20 the agony of watching a beloved one die, even
21 though it is my client's belief and wish that is
22 what his wife wanted. If this Court does not
23 grant the petition, Theresa Schiavo's body will be
24 maintained in this condition, perhaps for decades,
25 and there is no victory or win in that for anyone.
6
1 The evidence will show in this case that
2 Theresa had a conventional childhood. She was
3 brought up by her parents. They were practicing
4 Catholics at the time. She meets Michael in
5 community college in the Philadelphia area. They
6 fall in love. They married. They lived there
7 from, as a married couple, from 1984 to 1986.
8 They met in 1982. They had a family oriented life
9 in Philadelphia, both with Michael and Theresa's
10 family.
11 They moved to Florida in 1986. She
12 worked for Prudential Insurance and he worked in
13 food service management as a restaurant manager,
14 assistant restaurant manager, working nights. You
15 will also hear evidence that Theresa once had a
16 weight problem. Was heavy in her early adulthood
17 and lost a significant amount of weight. You will
18 hear evidence that Theresa wanted to become
19 pregnant. Wanted to have a family. Was under a
20 doctor's care to become pregnant, and while under
21 that doctor's care, developed a potassium
22 imbalance which caused her heart to stop beating,
23 which caused the incident in question.
24 You will hear much evidence as to how
25 Mr. Schiavo cared for his wife. Fought for his
7
1 wife. Fought to get experimental treatment for
2 his wife. Raised funds for his wife to go out to
3 California and have electrical implants to try to
4 stimulate her brain. Engaged in fund raisers.
5 How he stayed with her for day and night for
6 periods of years. How he has been termed, as he
7 has been termed, as a nursing home administrator's
8 worst nightmare. How he has gotten for Theresa a
9 level of care that most other patients would not
10 have received.
11 You will hear evidence how he hired a
12 private aide over a 2-year period to take Theresa
13 out to museums, hairdressers, beauty makeovers, to
14 try to stimulate her in some hope that she may
15 improve or may revive. You will also hear
16 evidence from physicians, Your Honor, that there
17 is no hope of recovery for Theresa. That she is
18 in a permanent vegetative condition.
19 You will also hear doctor's evidence
20 that the process of removal of a feeding tube and
21 the death process involved there takes seven to
22 ten days. That a patient does not starve to
23 death. A patient quickly develops an electrolyte
24 imbalance which causes death within a short time,
25 and that death as a result of this process is not
8
1 painful.
2 You will hear disputed evidence as to
3 the cognition of Theresa Schiavo. I am sure you
4 will hear evidence by the respondent that they
5 believe Theresa is aware of their presence.
6 However, it is important for the Court to remember
7 that that is really a non issue in this case. The
8 major issue in this case is what Terri's intent
9 was.
10 And we will present testimony from Mr.
11 Schiavo and his brother and sister-in-law as to
12 conversations Theresa Schiavo had with them in
13 which she stated that if she had to be dependent
14 on the care of others, she would not want to live
15 that way. She would rather die. Also, if she was
16 in that condition, she would not want to be kept
17 alive or maintained artificially. Her wishes were
18 not contingent upon being totally unconscious or
19 vegetative, but broadly expressed in that way. So
20 although there may be dispute in this case as to
21 whether Theresa has some awareness of her
22 surroundings, minimal awareness, it really is a
23 non issue in terms of her expression of intent.
24 There may be some evidence that while
25 Theresa was living with her parents, she may have
9
1 made comments about the Karen Ann Quinlan case.
2 We believe that the Court will not find that
3 evidence particularly credible, and certainly if
4 it is, contrary to her later statements, would
5 have been a change of position for Theresa.
6 You will also receive testimony, Your
7 Honor, from some experts. One will be an expert
8 witness testifying as to the doctrine and policies
9 of the Catholic church regarding artificial life
10 support. That testimony will show that the
11 request of the petitioner in this case is highly
12 consistent with the teachings of the Catholic
13 faith.
14 You will also hear evidence from an
15 expert in America's attitudes and expressions
16 concerning end of life care, who will also testify
17 that the manner of expression, the manner in which
18 Theresa expressed her wishes, is very consistent
19 with how Americans do that. That usually these
20 statements are made as a catalyst to a particular
21 event and illness of a relative; watching a movie
22 or television program where someone is impaired.
23 That is how these expressions are usually and
24 customarily made.
25 You will also hear in this trial
10
1 testimony regarding the relationship between the
2 parties, the petitioner and respondents, which was
3 a good relationship and a supportive relationship
4 until the malpractice award was given in this
5 case. You will hear evidence that in 1992 a
6 verdict was issued in a medical malpractice case
7 brought on Theresa's behalf and Theresa, the
8 guardianship estate, netted over $700,000 and that
9 Mr. Schiavo netted approximately $300,000 in a
10 loss of consortium award.
11 You will hear evidence -- you will hear
12 testimony from the respondents that there was an
13 alleged agreement between Mr. Schiavo and the
14 respondents that he would split his loss of
15 consortium award with them. You will hear
16 testimony from Mr. Schiavo that that was not the
17 case. You will hear testimony that the
18 respondents were in significant financial
19 difficulties at that time and were upset that they
20 didn't receive a portion of Mr. Schiavo's award.
21 You will hear testimony of basically an
22 unfortunate falling apart of that relationship and
23 also testimony that shortly after that falling
24 apart, the respondents filed a suit in this court
25 to remove Mr. Schiavo as Theresa's guardian
11
1 alleging that he was in a relationship with
2 another woman, that he was not caring for her
3 medically, and that he had a financial conflict of
4 interest. You will hear testimony that that suit
5 was dismissed with prejudice by the respondents.
6 There will be testimony that three years
7 after Theresa's incident, yes, Mr. Schiavo did
8 have a relationship and is in a relationship
9 currently. You will hear testimony that, yes, Mr.
10 Schiavo wants to have a family in the future. He
11 wants to be a father in the future. And you will
12 also hear that that doesn't mean that he doesn't
13 love Terri and will always love Terri and wants
14 what's best for her.
15 You will hear testimony that it's always
16 been the respondents' wish for Mr. Schiavo to move
17 on with his life, and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler take
18 over the guardianship and take over the care of
19 Terri. You will hear testimony regarding the
20 Schindlers' beliefs concerning medical treatment
21 and their wishes concerning Terri. Terri's
22 medical treatment. Some of that evidence, which
23 may be disturbing.
24 You will hear testimony that the
25 Schindlers, if in Terri's condition, would want
12
1 all possible medical treatment to keep them alive
2 at all costs, even if they were permanently
3 unconscious. You will hear testimony that they
4 would choose chemotherapy. They would choose, if
5 they developed gangrene, they would choose to have
6 their limbs amputated to remain in a permanent
7 vegetative condition.
8 You will also hear testimony from
9 Theresa's father that if Terri needed open heart
10 surgery, he would choose to have open heart
11 surgery performed on her rather than have her die.
12 You will hear testimony from her father that if
13 Theresa developed gangrene and limbs needed to be
14 amputated, he would choose to have that for his
15 daughter. You will also hear testimony,
16 Your Honor, that those beliefs and intents have
17 nothing to do with being Catholic or part of the
18 Catholic faith.
19 You will hear -- I am sure you will hear
20 testimony in this case about the guardianship
21 estate, and yes, if Theresa Schiavo dies at this
22 time and the petition is granted, Mr. Schiavo will
23 inherit those funds of Theresa's Schiavo's
24 intestate. You will hear testimony that Mr. and
25 Mrs. Schindler also, if the petition is denied and
13
1 Mr. Schiavo does remarry, will be Theresa's
2 intestate heirs and will inherit.
3 At the end of the evidence, the Court I
4 believe will conclude that Mr. Schiavo is not
5 concerned with finances, with money, financial
6 gain, but always has been concerned with the best
7 interests of his wife. You will also hear
8 evidence regarding the time period that has
9 elapsed since Terri's incident and the request to
10 remove the feeding tube. It has been ten years,
11 and the argument has been made and was made by the
12 guardian ad litem's report that is in the file
13 that that somehow affects Mr. Schiavo's
14 credibility.
15 The Court will hear evidence for the
16 first four years or so that Mr. Schiavo
17 aggressively, aggressively treated or tried to
18 seek treatment for Terri in the hope of recovery.
19 Despite doctor's advice there was no hope, he did
20 not give up hope. And I believe the evidence will
21 show he can't be faulted for trying as hard as he
22 did to help his wife in the hope of recovery.
23 In 1994, at the suggestion of his
24 doctors, the Court will hear that Mr. Schiavo made
25 a decision not to treat an infection, which would
14
1 have resulted in Terri's death. In response to
2 that, Your Honor, the evidence will show that Mr.
3 and Mrs. Schindler amended their petition to
4 remove Mr. Schiavo as guardian, alleging he was
5 not treating the infection and alleging that
6 constituted an abuse of Terri.
7 The evidence will show that at that
8 time, my client was emotionally unable to proceed.
9 After making a decision not to treat an infection,
10 he was attacked for it and not emotionally able to
11 proceed with the removal of the feeding tube.
12 That about a year later, he started to take steps
13 to do that which has resulted in this petition.
14 The Court will, as part of the evidence
15 in this case, review the report of the guardian ad
16 litem and also the suggestion of bias filed in
17 response. The Court will also hear testimony that
18 the guardian ad litem at the time he issued his
19 report had one piece of evidence regarding Terri's
20 intent and that was the statements relayed to him
21 by Mr. Schiavo. You will hear the guardian ad
22 litem testify that had he known of the statements
23 of Mr. Schiavo's brother and sister in law, that
24 his conclusions may very well have been
25 different.
15
1 You will also hear testimony regarding
2 the guardian ad litem of his personal findings
3 regarding removal of feeding tubes. The guardian
4 ad litem has been very candid, and the evidence
5 will show, personally, he has great difficulty
6 with placing removal of artificial provision of
7 sustenance as medical treatment, which is the law
8 in Florida.
9 You will hear testimony of the guardian
10 ad litem to the effect that he believes patients
11 should not have the right, although the Supreme
12 Court of Florida has given the patient the right
13 to cease food and water, in his belief that should
14 not be the case and the patient should not have
15 that right. We will argue to the Court that may
16 have affected the close call, and I use the words
17 of the guardian ad litem, the close call he made
18 in his report.
19 We believe at the conclusion of the case
20 the Court will find clear and convincing evidence
21 that Theresa Schiavo would not want to be kept
22 alive in this condition and would want the feeding
23 tube removed. Also, if it's necessary for the
24 Court's determination, we believe the Court will
25 find the removal of the feeding tube is in Theresa
16
1 Schiavo's best interest. I say, if necessary,
2 Your Honor.
3 Obviously, the primary question before
4 the Court is Theresa's intent. If the Court does
5 not find clear and convincing intent, which we
6 believe the Court will do, but if that should
7 occur, we intend to argue to the Court that the
8 Court does have the authority, absent clear and
9 convincing evidence of intent under a best
10 interest test, to grant the petition.
11 Your Honor, in closing here, while the
12 petitioner agrees that life is sacred and should
13 be preserved, he also believes, and we will
14 suggest to the Court, that neither the law, nor
15 Theresa's religion, or moral dictates would
16 require that life be artificially preserved at all
17 costs. Thank you.
18 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Felos.
19 Ms. Campbell.
20 MS. CAMPBELL: Mr. Felos has already
21 very eloquently and accurately set forth a lot of
22 the history in this case going over the dates and
23 times of the testimony dictated here in the next
24 week. Our differences where we come is as to what
25 the Court will find and also the credibility of
17
1 the witnesses.
2 Mr. Felos has his witnesses that will
3 tell what Ms. Terri Schiavo's wishes would be
4 regarding the feeding tube. You will also hear
5 from our side of it. On our side, you will hear
6 from a long childhood friend of Terri's. You will
7 also hear from a co-worker that was more closely
8 related to Terri close to the time of the incident
9 of the accident, which was February of 1990.
10 You will hear a lot of medical testimony
11 concerning the persistent vegetative state that
12 Theresa Schiavo currently exists in. We do not
13 doubt she's in a permanent vegetative state.
14 However, a lot goes to the cognitive activity and
15 brain activity of Theresa Schiavo. In reading
16 through some of the medical records, you will hear
17 testimony about her no recognition. However, you
18 will hear testimony from our side there is
19 recognition. She does recognize her mother.
20 There is a videotape we would like for
21 the Court to see, very brief, that is a videotape
22 capturing this relationship between Terri and her
23 mother that was recently taken. The guardian ad
24 litem, Richard Pearse, who was appointed in this
25 case, he will be testifying. The guardian ad
18
1 litem was appointed to investigate and make a
2 report to this Court, which he did, which the
3 court file contains a copy of his report.
4 Mr. Pearse thoroughly investigated the
5 whole case and interviewed various witnesses; met
6 with people at the nursing home staff; saw
7 different physicians; and came to the ultimate
8 conclusion that the feeding tube should be
9 maintained. It's our position here that the
10 guiding case for the court in setting precedence
11 is the Estele Browning case, which sets forth that
12 clear and convincing evidence should be
13 established of the patient's wishes, and that if
14 it's oral evidence, that the petitioner would bear
15 the burden of showing this was by clear and
16 convincing evidence.
17 We do not believe, as the guardian ad
18 litem also found, that the evidence you will hear
19 is credible. We have contradictory evidence that
20 will show in fact that it is not credible as to
21 what her wishes her. You will also hear from her
22 long time childhood friend that when the Karen Ann
23 Quinlan case was being discussed in conversations
24 between Terri Schiavo and this long childhood
25 friend regarding the Karen Ann Quinlan case, which
19
1 we believe ultimately sets forth Terri's beliefs,
2 it would be in the situation she is in one that
3 she would not ultimately choose to be in the
4 situation she is in, but the circumstances she
5 faces, that Theresa Schiavo would want to maintain
6 her feeding tube.
7 As a public policy statement, we also
8 believe the Court is firmly held to review the
9 conflict of interest of Michael Schiavo and the
10 financial situation that would rest in the
11 intestate estate. There is case law precedent to
12 that which we will be arguing in our closing
13 argument that we believe firmly sets forth this
14 conflict of interest. Thank you and good luck for
15 this week.
16 THE COURT: Call your first witness.
17 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. Call
18 Mr. Schiavo.
19 THE COURT: Call your first witness.
20 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. Call
21 Mr. Schiavo.
22 (THEREUPON, THE WITNESS WAS SWORN ON OATH BY
23 THE COURT.)
24
25
20
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. FELOS:
3 Q State your full name and current address
4 for the record, please.
5 A My name is Michael Schiavo. My address
6 is 2807 Marie Court, Clearwater, Florida.
7 Q What is your date of birth?
8 A 4-3-63.
9 Q Mr. Schiavo, how are you employed at
10 this time?
11 A I work for Morton Plant/Mease
12 Countryside Hospital as a respiratory therapist.
13 Q Please tell the Court what your
14 employment background is.
15 A I worked for Morton Plant/Mease ever
16 since I became a respiratory therapist five years
17 ago.
18 Q Before that?
19 A I worked for various amounts of
20 restaurants. Right before I got into medical, I
21 worked for Agostino's Restaurant.
22 Q Um-hmm.
23 A Prior to that, I worked for the
24 Columbia. And prior to that, I worked for the
25 Breckenridge Hotel.
21
1 Q Tell the Court, please, what your
2 educational background is.
3 A I went to community college for about a
4 year-and-a-half in the Philadelphia area. Bucks
5 County Community College, starting, I believe, in
6 1983. Don't hold me to the dates. I'm not good
7 with dates. I went to St. Pete Junior College. I
8 received a certificate for my EMT license.
9 Q What is that?
10 A Emergency Medical Technician. I went
11 back to school and received an AS degree in
12 respiratory therapy and back to back received my
13 SA in nursing. I just took my boards and passed
14 last week.
15 Q Where did you grow up, Mr. Schiavo?
16 A Levittown, Pennsylvania. Suburb of
17 Philadelphia.
18 Q Tell us about your family background.
19 Are your parents alive? Do you have brothers and
20 sisters?
21 A I have four older brothers. My mother
22 is deceased. It will be three years in July. My
23 father is still alive living here in Florida.
24 Q Did you have a relationship with any of
25 your grandparents?
22
1 A Yes. I did. All my grandparents.
2 Q Do you recall, were any of your
3 grandparents on life support?
4 A Yes. My father's mother.
5 Q How did that come about?
6 A She had a heart attack. Prior to that,
7 she had open heart ten years prior to that. She
8 had a heart attack. She ended up on a ventilator,
9 which was against her wishes. She had a living
10 will in place. A DNR in place.
11 The doctors did intubate her. My family
12 showed up. It was told to the doctor this was not
13 her wishes. Her living will and DNR was shown to
14 the doctor, I believe, and the ventilator was
15 removed.
16 Q Where were you and Terri living when
17 your grandmother died?
18 A Here in Florida. St. Pete Beach.
19 Q Did you attend the funeral?
20 A Yes. We did. We flew up.
21 Q Did Terri know or have a relationship
22 with your grandmother?
23 A She had a close relationship with my
24 grandmother.
25 Q Do you recall any conversations at the
23
1 funeral, the funeral luncheon after that,
2 regarding the issue of your grandmother's life
3 support?
4 A I vaguely remember a conversation that
5 happened, but my brother, Scott, had the
6 conversation. He would know better about the
7 conversation.
8 Q Is there anyone in your family that has
9 a particular reputation for having a good memory?
10 A My brother, Scott. We always tease him
11 about having the mind of an elephant.
12 Q Please tell me how you and Terri met?
13 A At Bucks County Community College in one
14 of our classes. I can't remember which class it
15 was.
16 Q Tell us a little about your courtship
17 with Terri.
18 A Terri and I dated approximately about a
19 year. We did the usual things. Family parties.
20 Movies. We went to dinner a lot. We were engaged
21 probably about a year into our relationship. We
22 were engaged for a year before we got married.
23 Q When did you and Terri marry?
24 A November 10, 1984.
25 Q Where did that occur?
24
1 A In Huntingdon Valley, PA.
2 Q Is that a suburb?
3 A Suburb of Philadelphia.
4 Q Describe for us Terri's personality.
5 A She was a very outspoken person. She
6 believed in what she believed in. But on the
7 other hand, she had a heart of gold. Somebody
8 that was sweet. Very personable. You would meet
9 her and just be charmed with her. Somebody -- to
10 me, she was everything.
11 Q Before you met -- when you met Terri,
12 what was her weight?
13 A Approximately 155 pounds.
14 Q Before you met Terri, had she been
15 heavier?
16 A Yes. She was in her early childhood.
17 Q Did she lose any weight during the
18 course of your marriage?
19 A Terri lost weight throughout the course
20 of our marriage. Yes. She did.
21 Q I would like to show you, Mr. Schiavo,
22 Petitioner's Exhibit Number One and Number Two
23 marked for identification and ask you if you can
24 identify what those are, please.
25 A This young lady right here is Terri.
25
1 That is her sister, Suzanne. This is when they
2 used to go away to -- I forget. They used to stay
3 at a hotel every year. This is Terri in Florida,
4 I believe. Actually on our honeymoon. This is
5 Terri and I. This is a good picture of her. This
6 is Terri right before we left for Florida. This
7 is Terri right here at her brother's graduation.
8 Q In Petitioner's Exhibit Number One, was
9 that the weight of Terri approximately at the time
10 you married her?
11 A The bottom picture? No.
12 Q The top picture?
13 A The top picture, yes.
14 Q In Petitioner's Exhibit Number Two, is
15 that Terri's approximate weight during your
16 marriage?
17 A Yes.
18 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, we move to
19 introduce these photos into evidence.
20 THE COURT: Is there an objection?
21 MS. CAMPBELL: No objection, Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: So received.
23 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBITS NUMBERS 1 &
24 2 WERE RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
25 Q (By Mr. Felos) Now that the Court has
26
1 had the benefit to see the photographs, I'd like
2 to bring your attention to Petitioner's Exhibit
3 One. If you can explain to the Court what those
4 two pictures are?
5 A The bottom picture here was Terri at a
6 younger age. This is on a family vacation. To
7 the right of her, far right, is her sister,
8 Suzanne. The top picture is, I believe is -- that
9 was our honeymoon.
10 Q Okay. Now Petitioner's Exhibit Number
11 Two, can you explain when approximately these
12 pictures were taken, and where, starting with the
13 upper left?
14 A The upper left, that is Terri and I
15 outside of our apartment at Thunder Bay. I don't
16 know the approximate year of that. Date. To the
17 right of that is a party thrown for us about a
18 week before we left for Florida. That is my
19 mother with her back toward you. My brother and
20 sister-in-law.
21 Down on the bottom on the left with the
22 truck leasing, that is her brother's graduation.
23 That is Terri in the white. That is her sister in
24 the black. To the right of that, that is a
25 picture at Disney World. I believe that is -- I
27
1 don't know the approximate date on that one.
2 The bottom, that is Terri bending down
3 with the blond hair to the right of Santa Claus in
4 the back with the red suit. That is approximately
5 about six or so months prior to her accident.
6 Q Did you notice that Terri was losing
7 weight during the course of the marriage?
8 A Yes. I did.
9 Q To your knowledge, while living with
10 Terri, did you know whether or not she ever had an
11 eating disorder such as anorexia or bulimia?
12 A I did not. No. There was speculation
13 made to that, but there was nothing ever proven in
14 court as to that diagnosis.
15 Q Once you were married, tell us the type
16 of things that Terri and you liked to do together.
17 A After we are were married, I did work a
18 lot. I worked a lot of nights. On the days off
19 that I did have, we would go to the movies. Spent
20 a lot of time with her parents. We would go out
21 to dinner a lot. Spend time at home.
22 Q Were you in love with your wife?
23 A I was deeply in love with my wife and I
24 still am.
25 Q How long did you live in Philadelphia
28
1 after your marriage in 1984?
2 A I believe -- don't hold me to dates. I
3 believe about a year-and-a-half. I'm sure we left
4 for Florida in 1986.
5 Q Did you and Terri socialize with any of
6 your family members?
7 A All the time. We went to frequent
8 birthday parties. We had a lot of little kids.
9 We went to adult parties. Kids' parties.
10 Holidays. We spent a lot of time with family.
11 Q Where did your parents and siblings live
12 at that time?
13 A I'm sorry?
14 Q Where did your parents and siblings live
15 at that time?
16 A My parents lived in Levittown,
17 Pennsylvania. My brother, one brother in Trevose,
18 Pennsylvania. One brother lived in Fairless
19 Hills. One brother lived in Philadelphia. One
20 brother was not married yet. Kind of lived with
21 my parents and had his own place for a while.
22 Q Was that all in the greater Philadelphia
23 area?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Was Terri particularly close to any of
29
1 your brothers or sister-in-laws?
2 A Terri was very close with my brothers.
3 Especially my sister-in-laws and especially my
4 sister-in-law, Joan. They were best friends.
5 Q At that time, how would you describe
6 your relationship with Terri's parents and family
7 while you were living in Philadelphia?
8 A I believe we had a close relationship.
9 She was very close with her brother, Bobby. She
10 was not so close with her sister, Suzanne.
11 Q Did Terri have any close friends in
12 particular in the Philadelphia area?
13 A She had a very close friend, Sue Cobb.
14 She had other acquaintances. Other friends.
15 Q Why is it that you and Terri decided to
16 move to Florida?
17 A We were over the cold. We wanted
18 something new.
19 Q After you and Terri were married, but
20 before you moved to Florida, did you ever take any
21 trips here?
22 A Yes. We did. I remember one
23 especially.
24 Q What was particularly special about that
25 trip?
30
1 A That is before we left her grandmother
2 was gravely ill.
3 Q Um-hmm. Did Terri have any concerns
4 about taking the trip to Florida given her
5 grandmother's condition?
6 A She was very concerned. She did not
7 want to leave her grandmother. She was pretty ill
8 at the time. She was in the hospital in intensive
9 care.
10 Q Do you know why she decided to take the
11 trip?
12 A Her mother told us to go.
13 Q Did the subject of Terri's grandmother
14 -- by the way, did you fly, drive, or take the
15 train?
16 A We took a train.
17 Q Did the subject of Terri's grandmother
18 come up at all during that train trip?
19 A Yes. It did. We were taking the train
20 trip. We are sitting there. Terri was reading a
21 book. She put the book down and looked at me.
22 She says, "I'm kind of concerned about leaving."
23 I told her, "Your mom said to go." She says,
24 "Well, I'm concerned about my grandmother. What
25 if she dies? Who is going to take care of my
31
1 uncle?" She says, "If I ever have to be a burden
2 to anybody, I don't want to live like that."
3 Q You made reference -- did you say
4 anything in response to that?
5 A I told her that -- I told her that she
6 should remember that for me, too.
7 Q Do you know why Terri made a reference
8 to her uncle in connection with her grandmother's
9 illness?
10 A Years prior, her uncle was in a severe
11 car accident. He was depressed because his wife
12 and child were killed in a car accident. They
13 were hit by a train coming here from the mall. He
14 became, as what Terri says, severely depressed.
15 Had a few drinks one night. Went out. On the
16 drive home, he hit a tree. He ended up in a comma
17 for a few weeks.
18 When he came out of his comma, he was
19 pretty much severely handicapped. Had a lot of
20 impediments. Had to live with his mother.
21 Q Did -- regarding Terri's uncle, did you
22 ever meet him?
23 A Yes. I did.
24 Q You observed his condition?
25 A Yes.
32
1 Q Did you observe any infirmities in the
2 uncle?
3 A Her uncle had paralyzed -- I believe his
4 right arm was paralyzed, I believe. He had a
5 severe limp. He used a cane. He had slurred
6 speech. Difficulty. He had to sit for long
7 periods. He could not get up and move around a
8 lot. Difficulty in thought processes, I believe.
9 That he could not process his thoughts quick
10 enough with his answers.
11 Q Again, why was Terri concerned about her
12 uncle because of her grandmother?
13 A Because he lived with the grandmother
14 and she basically helped take care of him.
15 Q After -- by the way, after the
16 conversation on the train, what happened to
17 Terri's grandmother?
18 A She died while we were here in Florida.
19 Q Michael, did you have any other
20 conversations at all with Terri about removal of
21 life support?
22 A Yes. I did.
23 Q Tell us about those, please.
24 A Terri and I would be home. We would be
25 watching TV. You know, a documentary would come
33
1 on. It would depict you know adults, children
2 that are being sustained and kept alive by parents
3 at home. People that had to be on ventilators.
4 People getting tube feedings. Medications
5 throughout. IVs.
6 She made the comment to me that she
7 would never want to be like that. Don't ever keep
8 her alive on anything artificial. She did not
9 want to live like that. I looked at her and I
10 said do the same for me.
11 Q Do you recall how many conversations
12 like that you had with Terri in response to a TV
13 program or documentary?
14 A It was two, two or three times.
15 Q When you moved to Florida, when you
16 first moved to Florida, where did you live?
17 A We lived in the Schindler's condominium.
18 Q How long did you live there?
19 A Approximately a year.
20 Q Did you pay rent?
21 A We paid rent when we could. The
22 Schindlers were gracious enough to let us slide
23 when we had to. Terri was not working at the
24 time.
25 Q Okay. Then after living in Mr. and Mrs.
34
1 Schindler's condo, where did you live?
2 A We moved to Thunder Bay apartments on
3 4th Street.
4 Q St. Petersburg?
5 A St. Petersburg.
6 Q Tell us a little bit about the logistics
7 of your life down here in terms of schedule. You
8 said Terri did not work initially. Did she
9 eventually find employment?
10 A Terri did not work initially. I started
11 work at Olga's Kitchen as a manager. Terri did
12 not work for a while. About four months. She
13 previously worked at Prudential up north, and she
14 went to Prudential here and they hired her on as a
15 transfer. That is where she stayed.
16 Q Was that Prudential Securities?
17 Prudential Insurance?
18 A Prudential Insurance.
19 Q Did Terri work days or nights?
20 A Days.
21 Q What were your hours?
22 A My hours usually were 4:00 to close.
23 3:00 to close.
24 Q Closing is?
25 A Sometimes midnight. Sometimes 11:00.
35
1 Sometimes I was home at 1:00 in the morning.
2 Q How did Terri feel about you working all
3 those nights?
4 A She was not particularly thrilled with
5 it, but she knew I had to do that.
6 Q Did the two of you -- did Terri have any
7 particularly close friends at Prudential?
8 A She had acquaintances. She had
9 friends. I would not say they were close.
10 Q Did the two of you have any close mutual
11 friends here in Florida?
12 A We did not have mutual friends. We had
13 acquaintances we both knew. We did not have any
14 close mutual friends.
15 Q Did Terri's parents move to Florida at
16 some time?
17 A I believe it was a year later after
18 Terri and I moved here.
19 Q After the Schindlers moved to Florida,
20 but before Terri's medical accident, how would you
21 describe the relationship you and Terri had with
22 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?
23 A I'm sorry. Repeat that question.
24 Q Once the Schindlers moved to Florida,
25 how would you describe the relationship you and
36
1 Terri had with her parents down here? Did you see
2 each other often?
3 A Terri saw the Schindlers probably more
4 than I did. In my own opinion, I thought we were
5 pretty close.
6 Q Tell me a little bit about -- tell us a
7 little about Terri's religious practice from the
8 time you knew her. Well, do you know what faith
9 Terri was brought up?
10 A Terri was brought up Catholic.
11 Q During the time that you knew Terri or
12 let's say from the time you were married, how
13 often would Terri go to mass?
14 A I'm sorry. Repeat that for me, George.
15 Q How often would Terri go to mass?
16 A Not very often. Once every few months.
17 Q Did you go with her?
18 A Yes. I did.
19 Q Every time?
20 A Yes. I did.
21 Q Did Terri ever receive communion when
22 she attended mass?
23 A No. She did not.
24 Q Did Terri ever participate in the
25 sacrament of confession?
37
1 A No. She did not.
2 Q Did you and Terri ever consider having a
3 family?
4 A Yes. We did.
5 Q What was -- what were your feelings
6 about that and Terri's feelings?
7 A Terri adored children. She wanted
8 children desparately, as I did.
9 Q Was there a time when the two of you
10 actually decided to start a family?
11 A Yes. It was --we decided to wait about
12 five years before we really wanted to start a
13 family. It was probably the beginning of 1989 we
14 started, I believe.
15 Q Did Terri ever become pregnant?
16 A No. She did not.
17 Q What was the difficulty?
18 A Terri was not receiving her period.
19 Q Did you or Terri ever seek medical
20 advice or treatment regarding your desire to have
21 children?
22 A Terri did. Yes. She was seeing a
23 family physician and a gynecologist.
24 Q Who was that?
25 A The gynecologist was Dr. Egel.
38
1 Q Did Dr. Egel --
2 A Egel. E-g-e-l.
3 Q What time period was Terri consulting
4 with Dr. Egel in an effort to become pregnant?
5 A I believe starting in the beginning of
6 1989.
7 Q How long did her -- how long did she go
8 to Dr. Egel?
9 A For a period of about a year.
10 Q Michael, tell me what occurred on
11 February 25, 1990.
12 A I got home late from work that night. I
13 came in the house. Terri woke up. She heard me.
14 I gave her a kiss good night. She gave me a kiss
15 good night. A few hours later, I was getting out
16 of bed for some reason and I heard this thud. So
17 I ran out into the hall and I found Terri on the
18 floor. I knelt down next to her and I turned her
19 over because she sort of fell on her face. On her
20 stomach and face.
21 I turned her over going, "Terri, Terri.
22 You okay?" She kind of had this gurgling noise.
23 I laid her down and ran over and called 911. I
24 was hysterical. I called 911. I called her
25 brother, who lived in the same complex as we did.
39
1 I ran back to Terri. She was not moving. I held
2 her in my arms until her brother got there. I
3 rocked her. I didn't know what to do. I was
4 hysterical. It was a horrible moment.
5 Q Do you know how long it was before the
6 paramedics came?
7 A Had to be a good six minutes or so.
8 Q What happened when the paramedics came?
9 A I moved away. Her brother was sitting
10 in the kitchen around the corner. I moved away
11 and they started working on Terri. They put the
12 leads on. I heard them say she is flat line.
13 Start CPR. I am standing there going what is
14 happening here? Why is this happening? Why isn't
15 her heart beating? I was just a mess. I was
16 hysterical.
17 Q Where did the paramedics take her?
18 A To Humana Northside, St. Pete.
19 Q Did you ride with the paramedics?
20 A Yes. I did.
21 Q What is Terri's condition as a result of
22 the incident that occurred on February 25, 1990?
23 A She's in a chronic vegetative state
24 anoxic encephalopathy due to cardiac arrest.
25 Q For those of us who did not go to school
40
1 in medicine --
2 A Lack of oxygen because her heart was not
3 pumping to her brain.
4 Q Can Terri run?
5 A No.
6 Q Can Terri walk?
7 A No.
8 Q Can Terri stand on her own?
9 A No. She can't.
10 Q Sit on her own?
11 A No. She can't.
12 Q Can Terri turn over?
13 A No. She can't.
14 Q Does she talk?
15 A No.
16 Q Can she eat?
17 A No.
18 Q Can she drink?
19 A No. She can't.
20 Q Can she swallow?
21 A No.
22 Q Can she go the bathroom?
23 A No.
24 Q Can she brush her teeth?
25 A No.
41
1 Q Can Terri clip her fingernails?
2 A No.
3 Q Comb her hair?
4 A No.
5 Q Can Terri dress herself?
6 A No. She cannot.
7 Q How are all those activities done for
8 Terri?
9 A I have her in a nursing home. The
10 facility employees do all that for her. She has
11 to be intubated by one person. She wears a diaper
12 which has to be cleaned, and you know, whether she
13 has a BM, they have to change the diaper. Clean
14 her. She has her period, which is at times
15 extremely heavy and messy. They have to clean
16 her. They have to do her hair. Her teeth. They
17 have to do total care for Terri.
18 She can't turn. They have to come in
19 every two hours and turn her. They have to place
20 her in a chair. They have to put the side rails
21 up on the chair to hold her in place.
22 Q Is there a neck support on the chair?
23 A Concave headrest more of. Her head fits
24 into the support.
25 Q In addition to the total care Terri has
42
1 received, I would like you to tell the Court some
2 of the additional medical problems Terri has had.
3 A Terri has had numerous, numerous urinary
4 tract infections. She has had her left little toe
5 removed due to osteomyelitis.
6 Q What is that?
7 A Bone infection that was caused by a
8 pressure sore.
9 Q Has Terri ever had to be hospitalized
10 because of the urinary tract infections?
11 A Yes, she has. Numerous amounts of time
12 for that.
13 Q For the removal of her toe?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Go on.
16 A She has kidney stones. She had her
17 gallbladder removed.
18 Q Did that require hospitalization?
19 A Yes. It did.
20 Q She had vaginitis. She had pelvic
21 inflammatory disease. She had I believe two D and
22 Cs.
23 Q Did the pelvic inflammatory disease, or
24 D and Cs, require hospitalization?
25 A Twenty-four hour admits.
43
1 Q Um-hmm.
2 A She has had respiratory problems. She
3 had dehydration.
4 Q What respiratory problems?
5 A Upper congestion. She can't control her
6 gag. When she fills up, she has to be constantly
7 suctioned down her nose or in the back of her
8 throat. She was put on some aerosol medications
9 that helped dry and relieve the congestion. She
10 has to be watched at those points because she
11 can't control her gag and she will choke.
12 Q Has Terri been hospitalized due to
13 respiratory infections?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Go on, please.
16 A I lost my train of thought.
17 Q Did Terri ever suffer seizures?
18 A Yes. She's suffered seizures. She
19 makes constant muscle twitching. She has severe
20 contractures of the hands, the elbows, the knees,
21 the feet. Her foot drop is to the point where --
22 Q What is a foot drop?
23 A Foot drop is where your foot drops and
24 sticks into a certain spot. Her feet are
25 basically lower than her leg, when she sticks it
44
1 out. She's had a couple cysts removed off her
2 neck. Numerous amounts of things. I'm trying to
3 think. She has a food tube that has been infected
4 a few times that she had to be taken to the doctor
5 to remove.
6 Q Gastronomy tube?
7 A Yes. Infection. Inflammation around
8 that. Due to contractures in elbows, now the skin
9 in between is starting to break down. She's had,
10 she has constant diarrhea which leads to
11 dehydration which leads to --
12 Q Has she ever been hospitalized for
13 dehydration or diarrhea?
14 A She has in the past. This previous
15 dehydration she stayed in the nursing home.
16 Q Michael, you have spent more time with
17 Terri and have seen Terri more often than anyone
18 since her incident. Have you ever seen any
19 voluntary or volitional response on her part in
20 all these years?
21 A I have not.
22 Q Does Terri, does Terri emit any noises?
23 Does her face move? Her head?
24 A Terri will moan, but it's not to
25 anything. We could -- I could be sitting next to
45
1 her and she will start to moan. Her eyes will
2 blink. Her head will kind of twitch. It will
3 kind of move itself. She also has -- she goes
4 into this spasm where she will hyperflex her neck
5 and will make these noises.
6 She will move her, I shouldn't say --
7 her arms move to where it looks like it is
8 tightening up and she is almost sitting in like a
9 praying mantis position. I have never ever seen
10 Terri have any voluntary movement or follow
11 through with any commands.
12 Q Does Terri have tears at times?
13 A I have noticed she had a tear or two,
14 but to me it was after she would kind of take a
15 big deep breath. Almost looks like a yawn, and
16 her eyes would tear.
17 Q Have you ever seen Terri laugh or smile?
18 A I have not seen Terri laugh or smile?
19 She makes a moaning noise and her mouth opens up
20 kind of, but I would not call that a smile.
21 Q Do you know of any treatment method or
22 drug or thing that can be done which will improve
23 Terri's condition?
24 A No. I don't.
25 Q Has any doctor informed you there is any
46
1 treatment method, drug, or thing that can be done
2 to improve Terri's condition?
3 A No.
4 Q What steps, if any, did you take in
5 order to try to improve Terri's condition?
6 A When this first happened I, you know,
7 she was at Bayfront for rehab. And we found this
8 doctor in California that was doing experimental
9 surgeries on people that are in vegetative
10 states. He was placing a stimulator inside their
11 brain in hopes that that would stimulate the
12 dormant cells that were not actually dead yet. I
13 took her there.
14 The doctor was Hoshibushi (phonetic).
15 He was doing experimental surgery. The protocol
16 was one month. There was no improvement from
17 that. I brought Terri back. I hired a private
18 aide.
19 Q Let me backtrack. When was it that you
20 brought Terri to California? Do you recall?
21 A I believe '91. '92.
22 Q That was before the medical malpractice
23 award?
24 A Yes. It was.
25 Q How did you come by the funds in order
47
1 to send Terri to California?
2 A We were on the news. I sold hot dogs on
3 St. Pete Beach. Sold pretzels. The association
4 where we lived got involved with us. Had a
5 Valentine's dance for her. They helped. We
6 raised some money to get her out there.
7 Q Did you go to California with Terri?
8 A Yes. I did.
9 Q You mentioned that stimulators were put
10 into Terri. Where were they put into Terri?
11 A Into her brain. Right on top of the
12 gray matter, which is the top part of your brain.
13 Q How were they -- were these electric
14 stimulators?
15 A It looked like your hand and had wires
16 that came out at a certain point of your brain.
17 It was electrodes in the back. I don't want to
18 say electrodes. I don't know what it was called.
19 Placed here that the wires ran off of. Ran down
20 the side of her neck and would go into her chest.
21 It looked like a pacemaker. They turn off and on
22 at that point.
23 Q An external device?
24 A Right.
25 Q You mentioned when you came back you
48
1 hired a private aide?
2 A Yes. I did.
3 Q Tell me why you did that.
4 A To continue to stimulate Terri. I
5 wanted to make sure she was dressed in everday
6 clothes. I had Diane take her to museums. I had
7 Diane make sure when I was not there that she was
8 taken her for walks. I had Diane take her to
9 museums. To beauty makeovers. I made Terri's
10 hair done the way she did it. Makeup on.
11 Earrings. Necklaces.
12 Q Were any of these efforts successful,
13 Mike?
14 A No. They were not.
15 Q Have you ever received any opinion from
16 any doctor or physician to the effect that Terri
17 has any mental ability?
18 A No. I have not.
19 Q Any opinion from any doctor or physician
20 that she has any cognitive skill or cognitive
21 interaction with her environment?
22 A No. I have not.
23 Q I would like to outline with you Terri's
24 care after the accident. You mentioned that she
25 went to Humana Northside?
49
1 A Yes. She did.
2 Q How long was she in Humana Northside?
3 A Approximately two-and-a-half months.
4 Q Was she in the ICU?
5 A Yes. She was. I spent the first
6 sixteen days and nights there. Never left her.
7 Q Where did you sleep?
8 A Sometimes right next to her. Sometimes,
9 most of the times, out in the waiting room on the
10 chairs.
11 Q After those first sixteen days, did
12 you -- how often did you see Terri at Humana
13 Northside?
14 A I came every day.
15 Q Where did Terri go after Humana
16 Northside?
17 A She went to College Harbor.
18 Q What type of facility is that?
19 A Skilled nursing.
20 Q How long did you see Terri at College
21 Harbor?
22 A I saw Terri every day.
23 Q How much time did you spend?
24 A I went in the morning. Left in the
25 evening. Spent 8, 10, 12 hours a day.
50
1 Q After College Harbor, where did Terri
2 go?
3 A She went to Bayfront --
4 Q Um-hmm.
5 A -- Medical Center under the care of
6 Dr. Baras.
7 Q What was the purpose of Bayfront?
8 A She had 90 days of skilled rehab.
9 Q Was there any problem in getting the
10 insurance money for Bayfront?
11 A Yes. There was. I had to actually
12 fight the insurance company for that.
13 Q What type of rehabilitation was given to
14 Terri at Bayfront?
15 A Aggressive rehabilitation. They also
16 got to take the trach out. Remove the trach.
17 Q When you say rehabilitation, is that
18 physical therapy?
19 A Physical, occupational. Special
20 therapists worked with her.
21 Q Other than removing the trach, was
22 there any improvement in Terri's condition?
23 A No. There was not.
24 Q How often did you see Terri at Bayfront?
25 A I was there every day.
51
1 Q Where did Terri go after Bayfront?
2 A She went to my home.
3 Q How long was Terri at home?
4 A Approximately four months, I believe.
5 Q Who took care of her at your home?
6 A I did 98 percent of it. My
7 mother in law did help. My father-in-law
8 basically did not do much at all.
9 Q Were your in-laws living with you at
10 that time?
11 A Yes. They were.
12 Q Why is it you said she was home for
13 about four months? Why didn't she stay home
14 longer than that?
15 A Because Terri needs total care. It is a
16 lot of work. We could not afford nurses. I could
17 not do it by myself. My mother-in-law was afraid
18 to have her there. My father-in-law was concerned
19 about that.
20 Q Did your mother-in-law express why she
21 was afraid?
22 A In case something happened to Terri that
23 she didn't know how to do.
24 Q After Terri was at home, where did she
25 go?
52
1 A She went back to College Harbor.
2 Q How long was she there?
3 A She was there for a couple of weeks.
4 Q How often did you see her at College
5 Harbor?
6 A Every day.
7 Q And from College Harbor?
8 A She went to California.
9 Q Where were you in California for this
10 experimental treatment?
11 A We went to the University of California
12 at San Francisco Hospital.
13 Q How long were you there?
14 A At the hospital, itself, we were there
15 about a week. For the rehab portion, we were
16 there about a month. A little over a month and a
17 week.
18 Q How often did you see Terri in the
19 hospital in the rehab in California?
20 A At the hospital, I stayed in her room 24
21 hours a day. I slept in a cot next to her. At
22 the rehab center, I was there every day with her.
23 Morning, noon, and night.
24 Q When you came home from California,
25 where did Terri go?
53
1 A She came home with us, with me, for a
2 couple of weeks.
3 Q Who took care of her at home?
4 A I did, plus we were able to, since we
5 had the money from the fund raisers, we were able
6 to afford a couple of nurses to come in and help
7 us.
8 Q After Terri was at home a short time,
9 after that where did she go?
10 A Bradenton Medical Rehab.
11 Q What type of institution is Mediplex
12 (phonetic)?
13 A Mediplex deals mainly with brain
14 injury, strokes, anything that has to do with the
15 brain.
16 Q How long was Terri at Mediplex in
17 Bradenton?
18 A Approximately three months.
19 Q Why did Terri leave Mediplex?
20 A Because the doctors informed us there
21 was nothing more they can do for Terri and we had
22 to find a facility to put her in or take her home.
23 Q How often did you see Terri at Mediplex
24 in Bradenton?
25 A Every day.
54
1 Q Where did Terri go after Mediplex?
2 A Sabal Palms.
3 Q where is that located?
4 A In Largo, I believe.
5 Q At Sabal Palms, did you have any
6 conflicts or disputes with the nursing home
7 regarding Terri's case?
8 A Yes. I did. I had many conflicts and
9 disputes. They had a lot of agency nurses on the
10 floor and they did not have enough staff. Terri
11 was getting the wrong medications. Terri was
12 laying in her dirty diaper for hours and hours on
13 end. Many grievances. She was not getting her
14 shower. Her teeth were not getting done. her
15 medication to her mouth was not put on. When she
16 had the osteomyelitis, it was not cleaned properly
17 after the hospitalization.
18 They did not have enough CNAs on the
19 floor to care for the people and the amount of
20 care that was needed for certain people.
21 Q What did you do to make sure that those
22 deficiencies did not affect Terri's care?
23 A I went through the grievance policy that
24 they give to the family members when there is a
25 problem.
55
1 Q What were those?
2 A It was a form you filled out. The
3 grievance. You handed it in. The Director of
4 Nurses would read them and supposedly they would
5 fix them. And they would write you a little
6 letter back, and most of the time nothing was done
7 because they did not have enough staff to handle
8 the problems.
9 Q Were you a particularly popular person
10 with the nursing home administration?
11 A No. I was not.
12 Q At some point, did the nursing home take
13 some sort of legal action against you?
14 A Yes. They did.
15 Q Tell us about that, please.
16 A They basically tried to have me
17 restrained from the nursing home.
18 Q What was -- how did that play out,
19 Mr. Schiavo?
20 A It kind of coincided with the
21 Schindler's petition.
22 Q Was the nursing home successful?
23 A They were not.
24 Q Did the court appoint a guardian ad
25 litem to investigate the nursing home charges?
56
1 A Yes.
2 Q Did the guardian ad litem issue a
3 report?
4 A Yes. He did.
5 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, we, at the
6 status conference last week, agreed to take
7 judicial notice of the prior matters in the file,
8 but for convenience, I would like to introduce
9 into evidence Petitioner's Exhibit Number Three
10 which are certain pleadings and documents from
11 prior proceedings.
12 THE COURT: Is there an objection?
13 MS. CAMPBELL: No, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Thank you. They will be
15 received as Petitioner's Number Three.
16 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 3 WAS
17 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
18 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, I would
19 like you to read a paragraph from the report of
20 John Pacaric, (phonetic). Report of the guardian
21 ad litem. This is the paragraph that starts on
22 the bottom of Page 2 of the report and ends on top
23 of Page 3.
24 A The guardian of the person, Michael
25 Schiavo, is reported by everyone interviewed to be
57
1 attentive to the pleas of his wife. He is at the
2 nursing home on almost a daily basis. He is
3 constantly reviewing the ward's chart at the
4 nursing home and not hesitant to point out errors
5 and omissions in the care of his wife. There are
6 reported incidents of the guardian yelling and
7 screaming in the hallways, nurses in tears, and
8 intimidation of the staff by Mr. Schiavo.
9 Although I have concluded Mr. Schiavo is
10 a nursing home administrator's nightmare, I
11 believe that the ward gets care and attention from
12 the staff at Sabal Palms as a result of Mr.
13 Schiavo's advocacy and defending on her behalf. A
14 family member of another resident at Sabal Palms
15 reports that his relative receives less care as a
16 result of the staff spending so much time with
17 Mrs. Schiavo.
18 Q How often did you see Terri at Sabal
19 Palms?
20 A Every day at Sabal Palms.
21 Q How long was she there?
22 A Approximately two years, I want to say.
23 Q How long would you see her?
24 A Um, 8, 10 hours a day.
25 Q Did you have a dispute with Mr. and Mrs.
58
1 Schindler at Sabal Palms Nursing Home in February
2 of 1993?
3 A Yes. I did.
4 Q Describe, please, what happened at Sabal
5 Palms on February 14, 1993.
6 A February 14th I was in Theresa's room.
7 I had the door closed. I was studying for some
8 homework I had. The Schindlers came into the room
9 and they went over and said hello to Theresa. The
10 first words out of my father-in-law's mouth was
11 how much money he was going to get. I was, what
12 do you mean? Well, you owe me money.
13 I said to him to stop everything. I
14 said I did not receive any money. I gave it all
15 to Terri. He then, in turn, pointed at Terri and
16 said how much money is she going to give me. I
17 said to him you need to talk to the guardian of
18 the property. I'm not that person. With that, he
19 call me a few choice words, went out and slammed
20 the door.
21 With those words, I followed him and my
22 mother-in-law stepped in the way. She started
23 saying this is my daughter, our daughter, and we
24 deserve some of that money.
25 Q Mr. Schiavo, do you know what money
59
1 Mr. Schindler was talking about?
2 A He was talking about the award that I
3 received.
4 Q Approximately how much did you receive
5 net in your loss of consortium award?
6 A Approximately 300,000.
7 Q Was Mr. Schindler -- let me backtrack.
8 When did that case come to trial?
9 A The malpractice?
10 Q Yes.
11 A Um.
12 Q Does November '92 sound right to you?
13 A Yes.
14 Q How much in funds did Terri receive net?
15 A I think she netted 700,000.
16 Q Who was sued?
17 A The doctors were. Doctor Egel and
18 Power.
19 Q The gynecologist Terri was seeing to
20 become pregnant?
21 A Right. And the family doctor.
22 Q Was Mr. Schindler aware of the
23 malpractice proceeding?
24 A Yes.
25 Q He attended the trial?
60
1 A Yes.
2 Q Do you know whether or not he was there
3 the day the verdict was entered?
4 A Yes. He was there with pencil and
5 paper. He wrote the verdict amounts down to the
6 point that he was so upset that he thought the
7 judge did not calculate right. He could not go to
8 work the next day.
9 Q Did Mr. Schindler ever tell you why he
10 thought he was entitled to a portion of your loss
11 of consortium award?
12 A Because it was his daughter and he
13 deserved it.
14 Q Did you ever say to Mr. and Mrs.
15 Schindler that you would split with them your loss
16 of consortium award or pay them any portion of it?
17 A No. I did not.
18 Q I think you testified that you told
19 Mr. Schindler that you gave your money away?
20 A Yes. I did.
21 Q Was that a correct statement?
22 A No. It was not.
23 Q Why did you say this?
24 A Just basically to shut him up because he
25 was screaming.
61
1 Q At that time, in that dispute with
2 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler that day, was there any
3 discussion of lawsuits or lawyers?
4 A Yes. I got through. My mother-in-law
5 went outside. He was standing there. His fists
6 were clenched. He got in my face. Said he's
7 coming down on me. Going to get on this
8 guardianship and he was going to get a lawyer.
9 Q At any time have you told Mr. or Mrs.
10 Schindler that they could not come to the nursing
11 home or visit Terri?
12 A No. I did not.
13 Q did you ever tell the nursing home not
14 to give the Schindlers information on Terri's
15 medical condition?
16 A At one point, yes.
17 Q Why did you do that?
18 A When Terri was in the hospital for, I
19 believe a urinary tract -- no. I forget what she
20 was in the hospital for. It was for some
21 hospitalization. And the Schindlers never showed
22 up or even called about her care.
23 Q Did you change your position about
24 giving the Schindlers access to medical
25 information?
62
1 A Yes. I did.
2 Q Looking back on it, was that a moment
3 that you are proud of?
4 A No. I was not. It was done. It was
5 emotions running. I was angry.
6 Q Back then in 1993, that was still three
7 years after Terri's incident, how were you doing
8 emotionally? How were you taking it?
9 A I'm sorry. Repeat that, George.
10 Q Back in 1993, how well were you coping
11 emotionally with what happened to Terri? How were
12 you doing?
13 A I don't know how I was doing it. I was
14 an emotional wreck. I was seeing a
15 psychiatrist. A psychologist, I should say. I
16 had a lot of unanswered questions of why.
17 Q Did you ever tell your in-laws that
18 Terri would be better off dead than coming out of
19 her coma?
20 A No. I did not, sir.
21 Q Did you ever have a conversation or make
22 a statement about her coming out of the coma?
23 A I made a mention to Mr. Schindler one
24 day out in the hall. I said, this was after
25 probably four or five years of Terri being in this
63
1 condition, I said to him maybe it was in Terri's
2 best interests. It was not feasible to come out
3 and find out you are going to be a quadraplegic
4 and you can't walk anymore.
5 Q On what basis did you believe she would
6 be a quadraplegic?
7 A The doctors have told me that in the
8 past.
9 Q How has her (sic) relationship been with
10 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler since the February '93
11 incident?
12 A How has my relationship been?
13 Q Yes.
14 A I have not spoken to them since, except
15 through trials or --
16 Q Have they spoken to you?
17 A No. They have not. I did, on one
18 occasion when Terri had her gallbladder removed, I
19 did on one occasion when the mother called the
20 nursing home, I tried to talk to her and she
21 refused to talk to me.
22 Q Did Mr. Schindler ever follow up on his
23 threat to get a lawyer?
24 A Yes. He did.
25 Q I believe a petition was filed in July
64
1 of 1993. Later that year. What were you sued
2 for, Mr. Schiavo? What was the Schindlers asking
3 the Court to do?
4 A That I was not taking care of Terri. I
5 was seeing other people. And that I was in
6 conflict due to her money that if Terri died I
7 would inherit it.
8 Q Mr. Schiavo, since Terri's incident, did
9 you have any intimate relations with another
10 woman?
11 A Yes. I did.
12 Q When did that occur?
13 A Approximately five years after the
14 incident. I don't know the exact dates.
15 Q How long did that relationship last?
16 A Approximately eight months.
17 Q Did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler know about
18 it?
19 A Yes. They did. Mr. Schindler wanted me
20 to do it. He condoned it, along with Mrs.
21 Schindler. They met the person I was seeing.
22 Q Do you currently have an intimate
23 relationship with a woman?
24 A Yes. I do.
25 Q How long have you known her?
65
1 A Five-and-a-half years.
2 Q Would you like to have a family
3 sometime?
4 A Very much so.
5 Q Because you're involved, because you
6 have a relationship with someone else, does that
7 mean you don't love Terri?
8 A I love Terri very deeply. I always
9 will.
10 Q Michael, does your petition have
11 anything to do with Terri's money at all?
12 A No. It does not.
13 Q How was the lawsuit the Schindler's
14 brought against you disposed of?
15 A They dismissed their case with prejudice
16 as long as I would not seek attorney's fees.
17 Q At some point in time, did you move
18 Terri from Sabal Palms Nursing Center?
19 A Yes. I did.
20 Q Where did Terri move to?
21 A Palm Garden, Largo.
22 Q Is that where she is currently staying?
23 A Yes. It is.
24 Q When did that occur?
25 A 1996, I believe.
66
1 Q How often did you -- how often do you
2 see Terri at Palm Garden in Largo?
3 A Currently?
4 Q Yes.
5 A Once or twice a week.
6 Q What do you do? How long do you stay?
7 What do you do when you see Terri?
8 A An hour-and-a-half, two hours. I
9 usually get there when Olga is bringing her out of
10 the shower. Help lift her. Get her dressed.
11 Usually blow dry her hair. Dry her hands off.
12 Put her pads in her hands. Usually check over her
13 skin. Make sure she does not have any tears or
14 whatever.
15 Q Do you still buy Terri's clothes for
16 her?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Do you still help dress Terri?
19 A Yes. Make sure she has her haircut
20 appointment. Do her wash. Make sure all her
21 needs are met.
22 Q By the way, Mr. Schiavo, all the times
23 that Terri has been hospitalized, how many times
24 would you say Terri has been hospitalized?
25 A Hospitalized?
67
1 Q For the various medical problems you
2 testified to before.
3 A Twenty times.
4 Q Has she ever been in the hospital one
5 day when you were not there?
6 A No. She has not.
7 Q How many times has Terri gone to the
8 doctor?
9 A Over a hundred, 130.
10 Q What is the logistics, mechanism of
11 getting Terri to the doctor?
12 A Depending on what the problem is, prior
13 we used to have to put her in SunStar ambulance.
14 Now she basically is transported by wheelchair
15 transport.
16 Q In those hundred or so doctor visits,
17 has there ever been a doctor visit for Terri where
18 you have not been there with her?
19 A No. There has not. I was there for
20 every one of them.
21 Q Was there a point in Terri's care where
22 you came to the decision that she should not be
23 medically treated for an infection?
24 A Yes. There was.
25 Q When did that occur?
68
1 A I believe it was in '94. '93, '94.
2 Q When did -- tell me how that came about?
3 A I took Terri to the doctors for a
4 bladder infection. The doctor recommended that we
5 don't treat the infection and that Terri should
6 have a "Do Not Resuscitate" order in place.
7 Q How did you feel about that when you
8 heard that?
9 A I was emotional, but I felt it was what
10 Terri would want.
11 Q Did you bring up the subject of the DNR
12 order, not treating the infection, first?
13 A No. The doctor did.
14 Q Did you make a decision to implement,
15 institute, a Do Not Resuscitate order and Do Not
16 Treat The Infection?
17 A Yes. I did.
18 Q What would have been the medical
19 consequences of not treating that infection?
20 A Terri -- the infection would basically
21 turn into a septic-type infection throughout her
22 body. It would naturally shut down her organs.
23 A painless process.
24 Q Was that decision implemented?
25 A Yes. It was.
69
1 Q Did the nursing home react to it at all?
2 A Yes. They did. They started getting
3 all upset. Telling me it was against the law to
4 do something like that.
5 Q How did -- did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler do
6 anything in response to your decision not to treat
7 the infection?
8 A They amended their original petition
9 and brought the new amended petition against me
10 that I was not treating the infection.
11 Q Didn't they accuse you of abusing Terri
12 by not treating the infection?
13 A Yes. They did.
14 Q Did you back off of the decision at
15 that time?
16 A Yes. I did. I had the nursing home, I
17 had the petition, and my emotions were running.
18 So I backed way off.
19 Q Back then in, I believe it was March of
20 1994, the Schindler's amended their petition in
21 regarding the decision not to treat. At that
22 time, why didn't you pursue removal of the feeding
23 tube?
24 A Because at that time my emotions were
25 running. I couldn't -- I was ready to do the
70
1 natural thing. I was not ready to pull the
2 feeding tube at that time.
3 Q Even though you knew Terri wanted it?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Why were you not able?
6 A It was -- I was not ready for that yet.
7 Q The Schindlers dismissed their petition
8 with prejudice in September of 1995 and this
9 petition was filed in 19 -- your current petition
10 to remove artificial life support was filed in May
11 of 1988 (sic). Why did you wait two-and-a-half
12 years to file the petition?
13 A I did not wait. I met you in the
14 beginning of 1996, I believe. I was talking to
15 another attorney.
16 Q Well, okay. I have to caution you not
17 to testify as to any communication you might have
18 with your attorney because of attorney/client
19 privilege. Let me ask it this way. Did you seek
20 to put into motion your decision to remove the
21 feeding tube before the petition was filed in May
22 of 1988 (sic)?
23 THE COURT: You keep saying '88.
24 MR. FELOS: '98. Thank you.
25 Your Honor.
71
1 Q (By Mr. Felos) When did you make the
2 decision and start putting it in motion?
3 A In 1995. End of 1995.
4 Q Mr. Schiavo, I would like to show you
5 Petitioner's Exhibit Number Four for
6 identification and ask you if you can identify
7 what those are.
8 A This is an affidavit from Dr. Gambone.
9 I believe it explains Terri's condition.
10 Q Affidavit of Dr. Gambone and affidavit
11 of --
12 A I'm sorry. James Barnhill.
13 Q And?
14 A Dr. Kamp.
15 MR. FELOS: Your Honor. I move to
16 introduce these into evidence as Petitioner's
17 Exhibit Number Four.
18 THE COURT: Is there an objection?
19 MS. CAMPBELL: No objection.
20 THE COURT: Thank you. They will be so
21 received.
22 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 4 WAS
23 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
24 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, you
25 mentioned that your mother passed away. When did
72
1 that occur?
2 A 1997. July.
3 Q Did that experience at all affect your
4 decision to bring this petition?
5 A My mother gave me a gift when she was
6 dying. We stopped her feeding because that is
7 what she wanted, and her medications. She gave me
8 that gift that it was okay to die.
9 Q Mr. Schiavo, why have you filed this
10 petition? Why are you asking the Court for
11 permission to remove Terri's feeding tube?
12 A Because that is what Terri wanted, and
13 it's my responsibility because I love her so much
14 to follow out what she wanted.
15 MR. FELOS: Thank you. No further
16 questions.
17 THE COURT: Why don't we take a short
18 break. Five minutes ought to be enough to stretch
19 and use the facilities and get back.
20 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Court stands in
21 recess.
22 (THEREUPON, A RECESS WAS HAD FROM 10:40 -
23 10:50 A.M.)
24 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, may I step out
25 and find co-counsel?
73
1 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
2 THE BAILIFF: Circuit court is back in
3 session.
4 THE COURT: Thank you.
5 MR. FELOS: May we approach a moment?
6 (THEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
7 HAD AT THE BENCH.)
8 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, my client
9 requests that the proceedings not be recorded by
10 the media, and he believes that it would impair
11 the privacy rights of the ward and we make that
12 request.
13 THE COURT: What is the legal basis for
14 that? Is there any authority for keeping the
15 media out of here?
16 MR. FELOS: I have not researched the
17 issue, Your Honor. I have no case to present.
18 THE COURT: The bases are juvenile
19 proceedings are private and they cannot be in
20 those, but they can be outside the court. It's
21 interesting they can take --
22 MR. FELOS: There is some precedent in
23 the guardianship statute. There is a provision
24 for the court to be closed in incompetency
25 proceedings.
74
1 THE COURT: Incompetency proceedings.
2 And I have so ruled the media had no right to
3 those files or proceedings. This is different.
4 Do you know of any authority?
5 MS. CAMPBELL: I don't know of any.
6 While I'd like to see it agreed to, I don't know
7 of any legal authority that we could, because I
8 don't think there is anything under Chapter 119.
9 THE COURT: Absent authority, I don't
10 know how I can ask them to leave. If you would
11 like to take an additional recess and see if you
12 can prevail upon them, I'm willing to do that, but
13 I don't know of any legal authority for them to
14 not be here.
15 MR. FELOS: Then I say let's proceed, if
16 that is the ruling of the Court.
17 THE COURT: Thank you.
18 CROSS-EXAMINATION
19 BY MS. CAMPBELL:
20 Q Good morning, Mr. Schiavo. As you
21 recall, I am Pam Campbell. I represent Mr. and
22 Mrs. Schindler.
23 A Good morning.
24 Q The relationship that you currently
25 have, the lady's name, is it Jody Sintonsay
75
1 (phonetic)?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Could you describe that relationship for
4 me?
5 A We are boyfriend/girlfriend. We live
6 together.
7 Q Would you consider her your fiancee?
8 A I would consider her -- yes. Yes.
9 Q Has she ever been so noticed as anything
10 in writing in the newspaper as your fiancee?
11 A Yes.
12 Q You and she own a house together; is
13 that correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Can you recall going on the train tip
16 incident that you referred to with Mr. Felos, can
17 can you recall the time frame when you and Terri
18 were coming on the train to Florida?
19 A What do you mean the time frame?
20 Q When was that?
21 A I believe it was in '86.
22 Q 1986?
23 A Yeah. '86. I'm not good with dates and
24 times, like I told you before.
25 Q Wasn't it in October of 1985?
76
1 A I don't recall the month. It was the
2 month that her grandmother passed away.
3 Q You were married November of '84?
4 A November 10th. Yes.
5 Q You came to the Schindlers' condominium
6 in St. Petersburg for a honeymoon right after
7 that?
8 A Correct.
9 Q Then in '85, the spring of '85, did you
10 come back to St. Petersburg for a vacation?
11 A Did we come back?
12 Q A plane trip?
13 A I don't believe so. I don't recall
14 that.
15 Q After Terri's accident, which was
16 February 1990, were you employed at that time?
17 A After Terri's accident? Yes. I was.
18 Q Shortly after the accident, didn't you
19 stop working at Agostino's?
20 A Yes.
21 Q When did you then become reemployed?
22 A I went back to Agostino's for a month or
23 so. I worked part-time for them. They were under
24 new ownership so -- and that went belly up. Then
25 I just -- I didn't work. I went back to school in
77
1 '93, I believe.
2 Q And you began your employment with
3 Morton Plant in 1996?
4 A Correct.
5 Q So basically from the beginning of 1990
6 until 1996 you were unemployed; is that correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q You were talking about some of the fund
9 raisers that you testified to previously. Can you
10 tell me about some of the details of the fund
11 raisers?
12 A We sold hot dogs, or I sold hot dogs on
13 St. Petersburg Beach. We sold pretzels at the
14 Publix. We had a Valentine's Day dance for her
15 with the association. The association I believe,
16 around Christmas, they put a luminary -- you buy
17 the bag in Terri's name. They did that on St.
18 Pete Beach to help raise money.
19 Q where were all those funds that you were
20 raising, where were they being maintained?
21 A At First Union Bank.
22 Q Did she work for Prudential at the time?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did the Prudential employees get
25 together and have a fund raiser?
78
1 A I don't recall. I don't remember that.
2 Q Was there a fund raiser promoted by the
3 St. Petersburg Times, Channel 10 and Channel 8?
4 A Yes. I said I was on the news.
5 Q About how much money did all those
6 different fund raisers raise?
7 A Probably close to about 20,000. I'm not
8 sure. You would have to check on the old
9 records.
10 Q Did you also receive a payment, pay-out,
11 from Prudential from insurance proceeds that Terri
12 was entitled to?
13 A It was her life insurance, yes, that she
14 was entitled to.
15 Q How much was that?
16 A 10,000.
17 Q Did you also receive Terri's social
18 security checks during that time frame?
19 A No. Terri could not get social security
20 because she was still receiving her payment from
21 work.
22 Q Did you receive any SSI from Terri?
23 A No.
24 Q Did you move to Florida from
25 Philadelphia in April 1986?
79
1 A That sounds correct.
2 Q And you lived in the Schindlers' condo?
3 A Yes. We did.
4 Q How much rent were you paying at the
5 time?
6 A I don't recall.
7 Q About $400 a month?
8 A Sounds correct. Yeah.
9 Q Now you testified previously that
10 afterwards you moved to Thunder Bay. Isn't it
11 true that you moved to McGregor Place?
12 A Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about
13 that one.
14 Q You moved to McGregor Place in September
15 1989; is that correct?
16 A I don't remember the date.
17 Q If you could bear with me and listen to
18 the time frame. I believe you testified that you
19 moved into the Schindlers' condo in April of '86
20 and then moved to McGregor Place, I'm asking you,
21 in 1989? Was it previously to --
22 A I don't recall the dates, ma'am.
23 Q Was it right prior to Terri's accident,
24 which would have been in February 1990?
25 A I don't recall the dates that we moved
80
1 in there and moved around. The accident happened
2 at Thunder Bay.
3 Q How long did you live in McGregor Place?
4 A I just remembered it. I don't
5 remember.
6 Q Months?
7 A It was a few months. Yeah.
8 Q How long did you live in Thunder Bay
9 prior to Terri's accident?
10 A Eight months, I believe. I'm not sure.
11 Q During that entire time that you were
12 living in the Schindlers' condo, from '86 until
13 sometime in '89, were you paying rent consistently
14 during that time?
15 A No. We were not.
16 MR. FELOS: Objection. I believe that
17 is a mischaracterization of his testimony. He
18 didn't testify that he lived in the Schindler's
19 condo from '86 to 1989.
20 THE COURT: I'll overrule the
21 objection. I think there is enough in there to
22 allow that kind of question.
23 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Repeat the
24 question.
25 Q (By Ms. Campbell) Did you pay rent to
81
1 the Schindlers then during that entire time you
2 were living in the Schindler's condo?
3 A No. They were gracious and let us slide
4 a couple months when we could not afford it.
5 Q Just a few months?
6 A I don't remember how many months, ma'am.
7 Q Did the Schindlers assist you in moving
8 from Philadelphia to St. Petersburg?
9 A No. I don't recall.
10 Q Did they contribute $900 for your moving
11 expenses?
12 A I don't recall that.
13 Q When you moved from the Schindlers'
14 condo, is it your testimony then that you moved
15 from the Schindlers' condo to McGregor Place?
16 A That would have to be. Yeah.
17 Q When you moved from the condo to
18 McGregor Place, did the Schindlers loan you money
19 at that time to secure a new apartment?
20 A I don't recall.
21 Q Right after Terri's accident, wasn't
22 Mrs. Schindler right there by your side helping
23 with Terri each step of the way?
24 A Not all the time. No.
25 Q Would you describe your relationship as
82
1 close in trying to assist Terri?
2 A My mother-in-law and I were close. Yes.
3 Q In February of 1991, a year after the
4 accident, didn't you, the three of you, live
5 together?
6 A Yes.
7 Q You and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?
8 A Yes.
9 Q With the hopes that Terri would then
10 ultimately come home and live there with you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q At that time, were you sharing in the
13 expenses, you and the Schindlers?
14 A Which home are you speaking of?
15 Q Hemosita in Del Mar?
16 A That home was in my name. I was paying
17 half the rent. Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and their
18 daughter were paying the other half.
19 Q Other expenses that you shared, Florida
20 Power, telephone bill, they were shared as well?
21 A Yes.
22 Q You were in the larger home with hopes
23 that Terri would be able to come and live there
24 with you?
25 A We were in the larger home, but it was
83
1 not with the hopes that Terri could live with us.
2 Because we only rented the place.
3 Q Was there a reason why it was in, the
4 lease was in your name as opposed to
5 Mr. Schindler's name?
6 A Because Mr. and Mrs. Schindler went
7 bankrupt and they could not get credit.
8 Q But you all shared the home equally?
9 A Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and Suzanne and
10 myself.
11 Q Was there a time then in that you moved
12 from that house to another house with the
13 Schindlers?
14 A No.
15 Q When you were describing the different
16 places where Terri went, from Northside to
17 Bayfront and to the Mediplex, College Harbor,
18 would Mrs. Schindler go with you to those
19 individual facilities to visit Terri?
20 A She went. Yes. But not all the time.
21 Q The time Terri was home living in the
22 home with you, Mrs. Schindler lived there, too?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did she assist you in taking care of
25 Terri during that time frame?
84
1 A Yes. She did.
2 Q The incident then that happened, the
3 disagreement in Terri's room in February of 1993
4 between you and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, to that
5 time frame, was it shortly thereafter that you
6 decided to withhold medical information from the
7 Schindlers?
8 A I don't know the exact time frame, but I
9 believe it was.
10 Q Do you recall then how long it was then
11 until you started allowing the Schindlers to learn
12 more about the medical condition of their
13 daughter?
14 A I don't recall the time frame.
15 Q Do you recall in 1996 your attorney,
16 Deborah Bushnell, sending a letter to the
17 Schindlers allowing them to now be able to get
18 information about their daughter?
19 A Yes. I remember that.
20 Q Prior to that kind of communication
21 going in 1996 -- so from '93 to 1996, did you
22 allow the nursing home to talk to Mr. and Mrs.
23 Schindler about their daughter's medical
24 condition?
25 A Yeah. Um-hmm.
85
1 Q It's your testimony here today that the
2 nursing home was permitted, from 1993 to 1996, to
3 discuss Terri's medical condition with the
4 Schindlers?
5 A I believe after I left I told them not
6 to -- to disregard or whatever, that other order.
7 Yeah. I'm not sure of the exact time frame.
8 Q Would it surprise you to know that the
9 nursing home was not giving out information during
10 that time frame to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?
11 MR. FELOS: Objection. Lack of
12 foundation.
13 THE COURT: Overruled.
14 A I'm sorry. Repeat your question.
15 Q (By Ms. Campbell) Would it surprise you
16 to know that the nursing home was not giving out
17 information to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler from '93 to
18 '96?
19 A The way Sabal Palms went, it would not
20 surprise me. But I know they get information.
21 Q I'm sorry. What was the last point?
22 A I know they did get information.
23 Q Who do you believe they received
24 information from?
25 A Elaine Nelson. The social worker.
86
1 Q From Sabal Palms?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And the different facilities that you
4 would take Terri to, for example when she would go
5 to Largo Medical Center for hospitalization, were
6 you ever requested as the guardian as to whether
7 or not there were any advanced directives from
8 Theresa Schiavo?
9 A From the hospital?
10 Q Yes.
11 A I don't remember any of those.
12 Q On any of the hospital admission dates,
13 do you recall anyone from admissions going over
14 paperwork with you?
15 A Yeah.
16 Q Do you recall them asking you whether or
17 not Theresa Schiavo had any advanced directives
18 such as a living will?
19 A I don't recall them asking that.
20 Q What do you believe that your testimony
21 would have been to that? What do you think your
22 answer would have been?
23 A If they would have asked me at that time
24 frame that she was --
25 Q The question is whether or not she had a
87
1 living will?
2 A My answer would be no. She does not
3 have a living will.
4 Q Did you ever seek legal assistance or
5 authorize an attorney to demand payment
6 reimbursement to you of the Schindlers for some
7 money for a credit card debt?
8 A This -- I don't recall that.
9 Q In 1993, do you recall an attorney Jan
10 Piper?
11 A Yes. I do.
12 Q Do you recall Mr. Piper sending a letter
13 to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler on your behalf demanding
14 payment of, a refund of some credit card debt?
15 A I remember him sending a letter. I
16 don't know if it was about a credit card.
17 Q What was your recollection of what was
18 the dispute between you and Mr. and Mrs.
19 Schindler?
20 A I don't remember, but I don't think it
21 was a credit card.
22 Q You do recall Mr. Piper sending a letter
23 on your behalf to the Schindlers? A demand
24 letter?
25 A I do recall that. Yes.
88
1 Q Is it your testimony here today that
2 you never agreed with Mr. and Mrs. Schindler to
3 reimburse them for any of the expenses that they
4 had advanced to you and Terri in the way of moving
5 expenses?
6 A I never agreed with them.
7 Q You never agreed to reimburse them?
8 A I never agreed. They never even brought
9 it up.
10 Q So your testimony is today that you and
11 the Schindlers never discussed repayment of any of
12 the loans made to you?
13 A No. We have never discussed that.
14 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, objection. The
15 question is improper because the witness has
16 denied that there were any loans. The question
17 is --
18 THE COURT: The question is did you ever
19 agree to reimburse. I don't know how you
20 categorize it. We can get real technical. I
21 think the Court understands the nature of the
22 question. I will allow it.
23 MS. CAMPBELL: The question went to a
24 discussion between he and the Schindlers, and I
25 believe the answer was no. There was no other
89
1 discussions. No further questions.
2 THE COURT: Thank you. Redirect?
3 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. FELOS:
5 Q Just to clarify a couple of things, Mr.
6 Schiavo, there was some testimony about life
7 insurance. Was in fact the payments that Terri
8 received disability payments from Prudential?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Not life insurance benefits?
11 A Yes.
12 Q You also testified about social security
13 benefits. I recall you saying that Terri did not
14 receive social security benefits. Was that during
15 the time she was receiving disability from
16 Prudential?
17 A Say it again to me.
18 Q Did Terri ever -- did Terri ever receive
19 any social security benefits while she was
20 receiving disability payments from Prudential?
21 A No.
22 Q Did she receive social security payments
23 after that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q In fact, are you aware of any written
493
posted on
03/31/2004 4:18:35 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: pc93
1 CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY
2 PROBATE DIVISION
CASE NO. 90-2908-GD3
3 ______________________________________
4 IN RE: THE GUARDIANSHIP OF
THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO
5
Incapacitated.
6 ______________________________________
7 MICHAEL SCHIAVO, AS GUARDIAN OF THE
PERSON OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,
8
Petitioner,
9 APPEAL
vs.
10
ROBERT SCHINDLER AND MARY SCHINDLER,
11
Respondents.
12 ______________________________________
13 BEFORE: GEORGE W. GREER
Circuit Court Judge
14
PLACE: Clearwater Courthouse
15 Clearwater, FL 33756
16 DATE: January 27, 2000
17 TIME: 11:05 a.m.
18 REPORTED BY: Beth Ann Erickson, RPR
Court Reporter
19 Notary Public
____________________________________
20
TRIAL
21
____________________________________
22
ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
23 501 South Port Harrison
Clearwater, Florida 33756
24 (813) 464-4858
Volume VI Pages 840 - 983
25
841
1 APPEARANCES:
2 GEORGE J. FELOS, ESQUIRE
CONSTANCE FELOS, ESQUIRE
3 640 Douglas Avenue
Dunedin, FL 34698
4
Attorneys for Petitioner
5
PAMELA CAMPBELL, ESQUIRE
6 The Alexander Building
535 Central Avenue
7 Suite 403
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
8
Attorney for Respondents
9
10 INDEX
Page
11 WITNESS
JAMES BARNHILL, MD
12 Rebuttal Direct by Ms. Felos 842
Rebuttal Cross by Ms. Campbell 862
13 Rebuttal Redirect by Ms. Felos 863
14 ELLEN DELANCEY
Rebuttal Direct by Mr. Felos 865
15 Rebuttal Cross by Ms. Campbell 869
Rebuttal Redirect by Mr. Felos 870
16
BRIAN SCHIAVO
17 Proffer Examination by Mr. Felos 882
18 JOAN SCHIAVO
Rebuttal Direct by Mr. Felos 886
19
DIANE GOMES
20 Rebuttal Direct by Mr. Felos 888
Rebuttal Cross by Ms. Campbell 893
21
MICHAEL SCHIAVO
22 Rebuttal Direct by Mr. Felos 893
23 JAMES SHEEHAN
Rebuttal Direct by Mr. Felos 910
24 Rebuttal Cross by Ms. Campbell 913
Rebuttal Redirect by Mr. Felos 916
25
893
1 A No, sir.
2 MR. FELOS: I have no other questions.
3 REBUTTAL EXAMINATION CROSS
4 BY MS. CAMPBELL:
5 Q Good afternoon. My name is Pam
6 Campbell, attorney for Mrs. and Mrs. Schindler.
7 Ms. Gomes, have you seen Theresa in the last year?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Have you been there in the last year
10 when Mr. and Mrs. Schindler were present?
11 A No. I just dropped in to visit her.
12 MS. CAMPBELL: Okay. No further
13 questions.
14 THE COURT: Thank you. Any redirect?
15 Thank you, Ms. Gomes. You may step down.
16 MR. FELOS: Call Mr. Schiavo.
17 THE BAILIFF: You are still under oath.
18 (THEREUPON, THE WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN,
19 TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:)
20 REBUTTAL EXAMINATION DIRECT
21 BY MR. FELOS:
22 Q Mr. Schiavo, you heard the respondent's
23 evidence regarding what they believe to be
24 Theresa's awareness. You have seen the
25 videotape. Does that in any way alter or change
894
1 your testimony regarding Theresa's mental status?
2 A No. It does not.
3 Q Have you witnessed Theresa moan or have
4 the similar type of physical responses she did in
5 this videotape?
6 A Many times. Yes.
7 Q Can you tell the Court, for instance,
8 what was occurring on those times?
9 A Terri moans a lot when she is in a
10 laying position and you sit her up to place her in
11 a chair. She will moan. Terri will moan when you
12 turn her over. Terri will moan when you pull her
13 arms straight out.
14 Q There was some testimony about
15 discussions or plans, if the malpractice case was
16 successful, to have Terri brought home to live in
17 a home setting. After the malpractice award, was
18 Terri ever brought into a home setting?
19 A She was brought home with me. Yes.
20 Q How long did that last?
21 A First time approximately four months.
22 Q After the malpractice suit?
23 A Oh, after the malpractice suit?
24 Q Yes.
25 A Um, brought her home -- I'm trying to
895
1 remember every place she's been. She went to
2 College Harbor. Bayfront. Approximately about
3 four months after the malpractice suit.
4 Q As guardian of her person, why haven't
5 you decided to bring Terri to be cared for in your
6 home or a home setting?
7 A Terri is very difficult to take care
8 of. She needs a lot of care. A lot of attention.
9 Q Um-hmm.
10 A It's very difficult to do in a home
11 setting.
12 Q Diane Meyer testified that she believed
13 Terri was not eating her food and she said she
14 told you about that. Did Diane ever tell you
15 anything about an eating problem with Terri?
16 A Absolutely not.
17 Q Did you do anything whatsoever to poison
18 that relationship, friendship, between Terri and
19 Diane Meyer?
20 A Absolutely not.
21 Q We have heard testimony from many
22 witnesses -- or from Jackie Rhodes. Did you ever
23 monitor your wife's mileage on her car?
24 A Of course not. Why would I want to
25 monitor her mileage? She was free to go as she
896
1 pleased.
2 Q Did you yell at your wife because she
3 had her hair colored?
4 A Of course not.
5 Q Did you ever -- how would you describe
6 the status of your marriage before the incident?
7 A Terri and I had a very loving marriage.
8 We had our problems, just like every other
9 marriage does. Terri never ever mentioned to me
10 about divorce.
11 Q Did she ever say I don't love you
12 anymore, Mike?
13 A Not at all. The night before it
14 happened, she told me she loved me.
15 Q Where was Terri when she had gallbladder
16 surgery? The surgery to have her gallbladder
17 removed? What facility was she in?
18 A Palm Garden, Largo.
19 Q Not Sabal Palms, as testified to by
20 Mrs. Schindler?
21 A No.
22 Q Where was Terri when her paternal
23 grandmother died?
24 A Terri was here with me in Florida.
25 Q How do you remember that? How do you
897
1 know that?
2 A Because we took the train down here,
3 and when we got down here, before leaving, we got
4 into a car accident.
5 Q Um-hmm.
6 A And when we got back, the driver of the
7 tow truck took us, graciously, back to the
8 condominium.
9 Q Um-hmm.
10 A I called and talked to Mrs. Schindler
11 personally. Told her we were going to be late.
12 We were in the car accident. She gave us the
13 number -- I don't know if it was a cousin or
14 friend -- who came and picked us up the next day
15 and took us to the train. But during that
16 conversation, Mrs. Schindler told me that Terri's
17 grandmother passed away.
18 I specifically remember asking Mrs.
19 Schindler why didn't you call us during the week.
20 She said what are you going to do. There is
21 nothing you could have done here. I hung up the
22 phone with Mrs. Schindler. I went into the living
23 room and told Terri her grandmother had died.
24 Q You were on that Florida trip also with
25 your brother, Brian?
898
1 A Yes.
2 Q That is the trip you went to Florida on
3 the train?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Had you and Terri and Brian taken any
6 other trips to Florida together?
7 A I believe it was October of '85.
8 Q Do you know where Mr. Schindler was?
9 A Mr. Schindler was here on vacation.
10 Q I believe Mrs. Schindler testified that
11 she got hope from a Dr. Yinghling, who had come
12 from California, about a year after the implants.
13 Were you here with Dr. Yinghling?
14 A Yes. I was.
15 Q Was there anything hopeful that occurred
16 as a result of Dr. Yinghling's visit?
17 A No. There was not.
18 Q To your knowledge, is there any
19 treatment at Shands Hospital that can help Terri?
20 A No. There is not.
21 Q Are you aware of any treatment anywhere
22 that can help Terri?
23 A There is no treatment anywhere that can
24 help Terri. No.
25 Q If there were, what would you do?
899
1 A I would be there in a heartbeat.
2 Q Are you indebted to Mr. Schindler?
3 A No. I'm not.
4 Q Does he owe you any money?
5 A Yes. He does.
6 Q For what?
7 A He bought my vehicle from me and he also
8 used my credit card.
9 Q Did he, was there any agreement for him
10 to pay you for this vehicle?
11 A Yes. A verbal agreement.
12 Q How much?
13 A $2000.
14 Q Did you transfer title to Mr. Schindler?
15 A Yes. I did.
16 Q Did he pay you any money?
17 A One dollar.
18 Q When you say he used your credit card,
19 that was a credit card for what store?
20 A Montgomery Wards.
21 Q Do you know what Mr. Schindler used the
22 credit card for?
23 MS. CAMPBELL: Objection, Your Honor. I
24 believe there was testimony on cross with Mr.
25 Schiavo on Monday regarding, since we don't have
900
1 the transcript it's hard for me to say, but that
2 he didn't recall any charges on anything, charge
3 card, any money that Mr. Schindler owed him.
4 MR. FELOS: I don't recall that, but you
5 can certainly cross-examine about that.
6 MS. CAMPBELL: I think the testimony now
7 is different from what it was on Monday.
8 THE COURT: I don't recall that either.
9 MS. CAMPBELL: I believe it was toward
10 the end of my cross-examination there was a
11 discussion regarding -- would you like me to --
12 THE COURT: I recall the lawyer sending
13 the Schindlers a demand letter in '93, plus or
14 minus, but I'm not sure why.
15 MS. CAMPBELL: I believe the follow up
16 question was was it for any credit card charges.
17 I thought his testimony was he didn't know or no.
18 THE COURT: That would have to do with
19 the demand note. It may or may not have had to do
20 with -- if you have a copy of the letter.
21 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, do you
22 know what Mr. Schindler used your Ward's credit
23 card for?
24 A A lounge chair. I believe a tubie.
25 Q Was there any agreement as to repayment
901
1 of those funds?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What was that?
4 A That he would pay it back.
5 Q Did he?
6 A No. He did not.
7 Q Robert Schindler, Jr. was asked what he
8 believed Terri would want in these circumstances
9 if she were aware of what was occurring. I will
10 ask you the same question. What do you believe
11 your wife would want, if she knew what was
12 happening to her now?
13 MS. CAMPBELL: I object. I don't
14 believe that is proper for rebuttal. I believe
15 Mr. Schiavo already testified to that on direct.
16 MR. FELOS: I never asked him that
17 question, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: It does not matter. His
19 opinion does not rebut someone else's opinion. So
20 we are in rebuttal. You are asking him to rebut
21 Robert Schindler Jr.'s with his own opinion. That
22 is not rebuttable. He has not challenged his
23 opinion, his belief. His belief is not based on
24 facts that he can rebut, so I'm going to sustain
25 the objection.
902
1 MR. FELOS: I have no other questions.
2 THE COURT: Thank you. Cross?
3 MS. CAMPBELL: No questions. Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step
5 down.
6 THE COURT: Further witnesses?
7 MR. FELOS: We only have Mr. Sheehan.
8 We have discussed this before. I have spoken with
9 him. He advised me that he would be available to
10 testify at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
11 THE COURT: So if we have -- do you have
12 any sur rebuttal?
13 MS. CAMPBELL: No, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: So I guess what we do now,
15 unless you want to do closings before you get done
16 with your witnesses, I guess we will stand in
17 recess until 9:00 a.m.
18 MS. CAMPBELL: Would it be the Court's
19 plan to go directly into closings at the
20 conclusion?
21 THE COURT: I offered you attorneys an
22 either/or. I'll still stand behind that. If you
23 want to start at 9:00 and go directly to closings,
24 that is fine. If you want to start at 1:30 and go
25 directly to closings, that is likewise fine. I am
494
posted on
03/31/2004 4:21:08 AM PST
by
pc93
(Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
To: pickyourpoison
bttt
To: floriduh voter
Thanks fv...morning prayers for Terri and her family.
To: FR_addict; syriacus; cyn
You're Welcome! I must say that I am not the one who compiled everything. I am trying to maintain a list and put all the info together.
497
posted on
03/31/2004 5:48:08 AM PST
by
tutstar
( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org)
To: Pegita
In Jesus' Name, Amen -- prayers for a continued hedge of protection around Terri and her family against forces that I do not understand. May God raise up mighty warriors on their behalf. May He give rest and restoration to those who love Terri, and all knowledge, wisdom, skills, strength, and materials to continue to fight on her behalf. May He work in the hearts and minds of those who work evil against her and her family -- against Him no one can stand.
498
posted on
03/31/2004 5:48:41 AM PST
by
cyn
(www.terrisfight.org)
To: russesjunjee; floriduh voter
The other side keeps putting down the Schindlers and act like there is only one lawyer. Since Terri's supporters have gone national, her family not only has the old lawyer, but help from many different groups, who have prominent attorneys helping the Schindlers. Also Governor Bush's attorneys are part of Terri's helpers indirectly.
Why Mindbender wants to fire the current attorney is not known. When I first learned abbout Terri's plight, the attorney seemed to be overwhelmed. I was thinking that the Schindlers may need a new attorney at that time, but when Terri's grass roots activists got together and helped get Terri's laws past, many groups offered their services. This same attorney grew with the job. She was no longer alone and has become a very good advocate for the Schindler's with the help of some great advocacy groups. This is a totally new ballgame for Terri's side. That is, if Michael side doesn't get to kill her first.
I wonder if MindBender (if she/he really is an attorney)offered her/his services and was turned down. I would definitely stick with my current attorney than go with someone as negative as MindBender26.
Whoever MindBender26 is, he/she has her/his own agenda.
Since the "about page" says he/she is a Former network TV reporter, she/he could help, but chooses to attack others instead.
To: tutstar
morning, tut!
500
posted on
03/31/2004 5:52:43 AM PST
by
cyn
(www.terrisfight.org)
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