Suspect in Madrid Bombing Lived in Germany

"Spiegel-Online" ^ | March 25, 2004 | "Spiegel-Online"

[longjack]

March 25, 2004

TERRORIST ATTACKS IN MADRID

Suspect from Hesse Arrested

In the investigation into the terrorist attacks in Madrid, authorities have hit upon their first clues leading to Germany. At least one of the three suspects Spanish police arrested on Wednesday shall have lived for years in Hesse. Chief Federal Prosecutor Nehm has taken up the case.

AP

Arrests in Madrid: Clues leading to Germany?

Hamburg - The Spanish police have come a step further in the search for the ringleaders of the attacks on three commuter trains in Madrid. As the Spanish Department of the Interior announced on Thursday evening, three more persons have been  arrested.

The suspects from Northern Africa shall have been picked up in the greater Madrid area. One of the men is a Moroccan who has lived in a large Hessian city for quite some time. Spanish investigators have only confirmed that one of the suspects was registered occasionally in Germany. According to the "Welt", the man was  registered by the authorities as a particularly violent and dangerous, islamic criminal. With the most recent arrests, 19 suspects are in police custody

According to a correspondent from ARD, though, the five men arrested so far are only suspected of having supplied logistical help for the devastating attacks on March 11. This report hasn't been confirmed thus far, though.

The news station n-tv reported, referencing secret service circles, that the attacks shall have also been prepared for in Germany. A spokeswoman for the Federal Criminal Investigation Agency in Wiesbaden declined to comment on it this evening. In explaining her reasons, she referred to the on-going preliminary investigation by the Chief Federal Prosecutor in connection with the attacks in Madrid. Chief Federal Prosecutor Kay Nehm has taken up the case.

The bomb attacks killed 190 people on four suburban trains in Madrid, more than 1500 were injured. On Wednesday evening examining magistrate Juan Del Olmo issued warrants against two further suspects. Among them was, for the first time, a woman. The newspaper "El Mundo" reported that the Moroccan Naima Oulad may be able to provide possibly important information for the investigators in their search for the terrorists.

The police assume that the woman knows all the terrorists who had been involved in the attacks. A brother of the Moroccan is in police custody and should be brought before the examining magistrate on Friday. The woman herself denied having any thing to do with the attacks.

Moroccan terror experts assume that the Jordanian Abu Musab Sarkawi could have given the order for the attacks. At present the follower of terrorist chief Osama bin Laden is participating, according to information from the Spanish newspaper "El País", in armed actions against the occupation forces in Iraq. The Moroccan Abdelkarim Mejjati could have functioned as the intermediary between Sarkawi and the terror command in Madrid. The 36-year-old shall have been involved in the attacks in May 2003 in Casablanca with 45 dead, then went underground.

© SPIEGEL ONLINE

2004 "Spiegel-Online"....Verdächtiger aus Hessen festgenommen

Translated by longjack

 

 

[An.American.Expatriate]

PING

[longjack]

Now "Die Welt" is running a report on their news ticker that the suspect was only in Germany a week.

"Spiegel"'s leading srticle shows pictures of police searching the Darmstadt apartment quite thoroughly. They mention briefly that the suspect may have only been in Germany a week, though.

OK, only there a week. While there he decided to enroll in University. Then he rented an apartment, but spent most of his time in a friend's apartment. I see. It's much clearer now.

I believe you about the forums, too. Obviously I was wrong, this isn't the straw that broke the camel's back. There won't be one, either. You're right.

longjack

[An.American.Expatriate]

Actually there is a bit more to this -

ONE of the men arrested was already known to the Spanish Governement and they requested "info" from the Germans in 2002 - the germans said "Mohammed who??"

This same person arrived in Darmstadt in October 2003, lived at a friends appartment for a week, and looked into enrolling at the university there. This is the appartment which was searched.

Question 1: why would the Spanish ask for info from the germans in 2002 about a morrocan? They obviously had reason to believe that the Germans "should" know something.

Several other person detained in spain HAVE LIVED in southern Hessen (possibly Frankfurt) for several years are ARE KNOWN to be "violent extremists".

Question 2: why, after 9/11, has germany allowed these known "violent extremists" to wander freely about? Where is the eavesdropping evidence, etc... which would have prevented 3/11?

[Tin Foil On]
a somewhat strange report on FR yesterday stated that the Schroeder was aware of the planning and failed to prevent it (a SMS message being sent in spain) -

If the organizers where known "violent extremists" and they were being monitored (as the Germans have claimed since 9/11) - could that thread from yesterday be true??
[Tin Foil Off]

One last point regarding "vorbereiten" -
According to Cassel's German-English Dictionary:

vorbereiten
(1) v.t. prepare, get or make ready
(2) v.r. prepare o.s., make one's preparations, get ready (Spt. etc.) train, get into training.

So - some of the evidence seems to indicate that the attacks in Madrid (and the 9/11 attacks) where prepared in Germany.

[syriacus]

Thanks for the update, longjack.

This story is interesting.

[syriacus]

(probably somehow blaming Bush)

My thought, too.

[syriacus]

AP's contribution

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040326/w032626.html

German authorities conduct search in Spain bombing investigation
08:28 AM EST Mar 26

DAVID MCHUGH

DARMSTADT, Germany (AP) - Authorities searched a property in this city as part of investigations into the Madrid train bombings, a German state official said Friday.

The property in Darmstadt, south of Frankfurt, was searched Thursday evening, said Fritz Behrens, the interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia state.

One of three suspects arrested in Spain this week was enrolled to study electrical engineering at a Darmstadt university, he said.

"He apparently lived only for a short time in Germany," Behrens told a news conference. He gave no further details, and federal prosecutors refused to comment.

Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung daily reported that the man was believed to be a Moroccan and born in 1975, and said that the suspect enrolled in Darmstadt last year to study electrical engineering.

Residents at a Darmstadt residential building said police commandos blew open the door to an apartment Thursday night, followed by several dozen officers who swarmed in and searched the place for hours until late into the night.

Matthias Conrad, who lives on the floor above, told The Associated Press that a man he described as having Mediterranean features lived in the apartment with his girlfriend.

Conrad said the man had lived there for about two years, but that he had not seen him for some time.

"It could be weeks or months," Conrad said.

He said there was a loud explosion at about 10:30 p.m. Thursday as police blew a hole into the apartment door, shattering windows in the five-storey building's stairwell.

Police also searched the building's basement with sniffer dogs, he said.

Germany's ARD television reported that the man spent only a week in Germany last October, expressing interest in an electrical engineering course in Darmstadt before leaving the country.

The apartment search turned up no indications of terrorist activity, ARD said, without citing sources.

Investigators are checking whether two Syrians arrested in Spain have links to Germany, but so far have found none, ARD said.

Darmstadt is in Hesse state, where security officials had no immediate comment on the searches. Behrens is the top security official for North Rhine-Westphalia state.

German federal prosecutors already have opened an investigation because a German woman was injured in the Madrid attacks.

Germany became a focus of terrorism investigations after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States when it emerged that three of the suicide hijackers had lived and studied in Hamburg.

[twigs]

A Morrocan-born British citizen who had been in the US for 14 years opened a cafe near our home about 5 years ago. He began a time in the mornings where he invited people of all faiths to come in for discussions along with breakfast. I noticed he had pictures displayed of his wife and daughters--no scarves of any type even though he was Muslim. Then we began to notice Arab-looking men coming in to talk with him and he would always look upset. He would get phone calls that upset him. We stopped eating there because we began not to be sure where our money was going. He made a trip back to Morroco last spring (around the time of the terrorist activity there) and then he abruptly sold the cafe and returned to Britain. The new owner mentioned something about his questionable business practices to me. Then I remembered from a newspaper article about him and his business that he was sick on 9/11 and the cafe was closed. One has to wonder...

[An.American.Expatriate]

Fritz Behrens, the interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia state

The Spin begins - first of all, Darmstadt is located in Hessen. the Interior Minister of NRW has NO Business making statements regarding an investigation in Hessen.

[longjack]

The "Welt" blurb about the suspect being in Germany a week is a bid to get the story off the radar screen, IMHO.

The "FAZ" article above didn't pull any punches. Violent tendencies, connections to radical islam and Hamas, there's more of them, ready to be picked up and not just in Hessen.

"Spiegel'", which I read alot because I think they are good with breaking stories, used vorbereiten yesterday, which I thought was funny. I looked it up in Duden just to be sure there weren't cases where you could use it in the place of planning.

You get ready or prepare for a bombing after you plan it, right? Getting ready means the foot soldiers are collecting materials in Germany, planning means the masterminds are sitting in a safe location (Germany) drawing up ways to kill hundreds of people. When "Spiegel" flat out asked the question today if the attacks were planned in Germany, I concluded that my original theory was right. The press was vigorously investigating if they were planned in Germany, but "Spiegel" didn't have enough yesterday to flat out say it.

I find "Spiegel" to be very careful with their language, and they are good at it, too. I like the idiomatic phrases "Spiegel" writes with. The word vorbereiten rang a bell yesterday for some reason. Planning the attack is a lot harder to reationalize away than preparing for it. The suspect could prepare for the bombing in a week, but probably not plan it.

I have Tin-Foil hat tendencies, too.

I saw that Stoiber mentioned something about the security issue this AM. This would be a Schroeder killer. We'll have to see if it gets spiked or not.

longjack

[longjack]

"He apparently lived only for a short time in Germany," Behrens told a news conference. He gave no further details, and federal prosecutors refused to comment.

and, in the same article.

Conrad said the man had lived there for about two years, but that he had not seen him for some time.

Thanks.

Germany is such a great place that two years is indeed just a short stay. You need 40 or so to really appreciate it.

I find this story to be very interesting, too.

longjack

[An.American.Expatriate]

Not sure about the "one week" story - is a bit of a reach, but "could" be true ("courier" who needed a cover story comes to Darmstadt and stay with a "friendly" but otherwise "innocent" colleague - checks out the local college [interestingly Darmstadt University = DU] then returns to "the front").

The group with "violent tendencies" refers to others who have lived in southern Hesse for "many years" and are "known" to the BKA, LVA etc... There was some talk of a mosque in Frankfurt which has been under investigation.

There seems to be a great deal of confusion regarding the "suspects".

As I read it, we have:
1) The man who came to Darmstadt in Oct 2003 (info was requested on him from the Spaniards in 2002, but the German response was "I know nothing!")
2) Several other Moroccans arrested in Spain who had previously lived "for many years" in Hessen and where known to have had "violent tendencies".
3) Possibly some Syrians "somewhere" in Germany.
4) the resident of the apartment in Darmstadt (not the same as the courier).

So - hypothesizing -

In 2002 "The Electronics Guy" becomes known to the Spaniards. Obviously he must have been involved in some type of "subversive" activity. At this time, the Spaniards, for whatever reason, assumed that German Intelligence Agencies might know something about him. No information was provided, but his name was registered in Germany.
In October 2003, the Electronics guy travels to Darmstadt and lives temporarily at a safe house. For cover, he looks into enrolling at DU (enrollments are done in the summer!!). During this time he meets with the foot soldiers and informs them of the progress of the plan.
After one week, he returns to Spain to finalize preparations with the local group.
Neither the German nor the Spanish group would know about each other - only the electronics guy knows "who is who".
he may also have received instructions from his leaders while in Germany (the Syrians??).
The foot soldiers depart for Spain - probably as individuals and spread out over the course of several weeks. The departure of "known extremists" for points unknown did not seem to cause the Germans any headaches.
Probable arrival in Spain - end of February.
The Electronics Guy runs them through the plan (dry runs) several times prior to 3/11.

[rrrod]

seems germany is a hot bed of activity

[americanbychoice2]

An interesting headline in the Bild:
Over 300 Extremists live in Germany. All are known to the Police. However, you can't watch them 24 hours a day.

My thoughts on this: It would be real easy to watch them, put them in a cell and close the door. It would only take one person?
Most Germans would love to stick their heads in the sand, forgetting that their ass@##%les would become an inviting target.
I give up...........

[Michael81Dus]

Hello-o!?

Could it be, that you two were a bit to fast in condemning the evil German terror state? Look at the news NOW and see that the suspect stayed just for a few days here.

One cannot claim that 311 was prepared in Germany - and by the way: 911 was planned in Afghanistan and prepared in Germany and the US both, and it was the intelligence of the last mentioned country that has ignored the hint of the other countrys intelligence.

For the record: There´s nothing unusual with my countrys anti-terror-policy. And I fight the trial to blame it all on my fellow-citizens.

And now: good-bye, I´m heading for the States on Monday, so I´m off until my return. :-)

Have a great time!

[An.American.Expatriate]

The 300 extremists is taken a bit out of context by Bild.

Some "terror expert" was on the ARD Morning show - he claimed that at least 300 extremeists were known to frequent a mosque in Frankfurt and that you would on the order of 20 police officers per extremist to effectively survail them - he went on to complain about lack of funding.

As to the head in the sand - you are, unfortunately correct - all of the comments I saw today on various forums in Germany where along the lines of "it didn't happen here, so..." - not ONE demanded consequences from Schroeder & Co.

This will fall of the radar VERY fast and the average German will return to watching Big Brother and Deutschland sucht den Superstar (like American Idol for those who need to ask).

[americanbychoice2]

You are of course, correct. In my opinion, there are many more than 300 extremists in Germany.Did they choose not to include their homegrown skinheads? Just go to the U-Bahn in Frankfurt or anywhere else and you come up with more than 300. :)

[An.American.Expatriate]

Could it be that YOU didn't care to read what I said AND you are ignoring your own media.

The man from Darmstadt is not the problem...

his several colleagues who where known to the BKA, LKA, LVA etc... and were living for "many years" in Southern Hesse and who are now in custody in Spain are the problem.

Your media has been quite confusing on this story, but if you read enough different reports it becomes clear "who is who".

By concentrating though on the "Electronics Guy" and stating he was only there for several days, so this is no big deal, simply ignores the true story.

[Dog]

Thanks longjack....I'll ping them.

[Cap Huff]

Thanks for the ping, and Longjack, thanks for the post and the translation!

[longjack]

The planning issue is the hot button one.

Notice Michael's quick reply that the earlier reports were wrong (there a long time) and that the new ones are correct (there just a few days). That ploy obviously worked.

Syricus's post above quotes the one guys neighbor saying he was there for two years, for crying out loud.

It's going to be pretty hard for Germany to rationlize away the fact that the Madrid bombing was planned in Germany, if indeed that happened. However, I have the utmost confidence that they will succeed in rationlizing it in some perverted sort of way, but then perhaps I'm just a contentious SOB.

You're earlier post about a forum poster over there saying it's all cool as long as it helps the terroists win gives me the confidence to predict that the Germans will come up with a cute exonerating slogan that will 'stick' for the general populace and settle the ugly matter once and for all.

longjack