Anatomy Lessons, a Vanishing Rite for Young Doctors

NY Times ^ | March 23, 2004 | ABIGAIL ZUGER

[Diogenesis]

Much of the traditional anatomy curriculum is irrelevant to medical practice and might easily be eliminated, Dr. Gonzalez-Crussi said

Sure. Forget the infectious microorganisms, too.
And no use memorizing metabolic pathways.
Better forget the periodic chart, too.
Science and medicine are becoming double-plus ungood.

[neverdem]

PING

[cyborg]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Piled up next to my laptop is a Netter's Atlas, Greys and the Color Anatomy Atlas. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

[Diogenesis]

Do those still have the drawings by N. Joy?

[cyborg]

neverdem may be able to answer that... I'm a lowly student with only three books :-) I did try to look for it but came up with one for artists

[neverdem]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

If they think they can get away with it, they'll try to any hard science with computer programs and simulations.

Like the old song, "Ain't nothing like the real thing baby".

[neverdem]

I'm not familiar with N. Joy, but I still have Netter monographs, compliments of the drug companies.

[Diogenesis]

Nancy Joy drew both for Netter pubs and Gray's. Very talented.

[BfloGuy]

From a layman's point of view -- I think I'd like my young surgeon to have mucked around a bit before I showed up on the operating table.

If you know what I mean.

[Maynerd]

I have mixed feelings. Gross anatomy is a rite of passage as well as a fundamental learning experience. However, mri and multidector ct multiplanar imaging are extremely effective teaching tools. I would guess that gross anatomy lab will go the way of the house call.

[cyborg]

gross anatomy=eight track cassette basically :-)

[lainde]

bttt

[boop]

Hopefully not. I am a physician and I will tell you that there is nothing that compares to anatomy being taught with cadavers. I had seen anatomy slides, pictures, movies, etc. my entire life before med school, but had no concept of how things fit together until I saw it in real life. Virtually no one would be able to picture these structures in 3-D unless they saw them in person. In fact some of my fellow students who planned on going into surgical specialties took an elective dissection their senior year.

[nickcarraway]

ping

[DH]

There is one thing "high tech" can't accomplish..."hands on experience."

When I was in the Air Force, I attended electronics school and then advanced to radar and bombing school for F-100 aircraft. Everything was simulated in the classroom. No actual aircraft present.

I graduated at the top of my class. Boy, was I smart. At least I thought so until I was shipped to Lakenheath, England and walked up to my first ACTUAL F-100 aircraft to work on it. I then realized that all of the education I acquired did not teach me how to open the canopy or hook up the power unit. It took me about 10 minutes to swallow my pride and find a crew chief to show me how to do it.

Moral of the story...classroom teaches the theory, "Hands on" experience actually teaches you HOW to do it.

[astounded]

CT and MRI are no substitute for actually seeing the real anatomy. They do not give the proper spatial perspective, and without having a minds-eye view of the real thing, how can a student/trainee correlate the images with the anatomy?

[GigaDittos]

I'm sure that surgical students still do dissections. They are probably reducing the dissections in the general training curriculum that all medical students take.

[Mamzelle]

I had to shake my head at the thought of abandoning this essential entry-level education. What exactly will they replace this with--some sociological puff course? With the advent of reducing the work-load of first-year interns (who then see so many fewer patients)--it's the old geezers for **this** patient!!

[John O]

Virtually no one would be able to picture these structures in 3-D unless they saw them in person.

While you are most probably right in the rest of your statements I take issue with this one. Tons of people would be able to properly assemble the components back into a 3-d image. Of course the very ability that lets them do this also almost certainly dooms them to a career as engineers.

I just underwent an emergency appendectomy three weeks ago and I'll go on record as saying I Thank God that my surgeon had gross anatomy. I wouldn't want anyone cutting on me as their first body to cut up.