Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

THE controversial Mel Gibson film 'The Passion of the Christ' has been dismissed by the Evangelical Protestant Society as a 'Catholic' interpretation of events which "does not present the Gospel".

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus. None of this should surprise us, for both Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel, who plays the part of Christ, are enthusiastic devotees of the traditional teachings of the Church of Rome."

He further claims that Mel Gibson "belongs to an ultra-conservative Catholic group which does not recognise the reforms of Vatican II, and celebrates Mass in Latin".

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

Sadly, however, it will be welcomed and praised by many who ought to know better."

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."

[B-Chan]

Sneer Clear of Arguing

[Cronos]

And you also know of her other kids, right?

[Siobhan]

Well said. Bumpus ad summum.

[Havoc]

No, she can't. She doesn't. All that happens is that we ask her to pray to God for us, to add to our prayers.

That isn't what is illustrated in that prayer #1, Your salvation doesn't come by prayer #2, And communication with the bodily dead is forbidden #3. On Point 2, we have a multitude of quotations from scripture to bear it up. Paul said most clearly that if we believe and confess we are saved. That isn't prayer. And Mary cannot believe and confess for anyone but Mary.

True and most of us need some help to do that.

Sorry, but the Pope is seeking his own salvation through Mary. Isn't he supposed to be saved already. See, you can say all these cute things; it's still a lie. Mary can't believe and confess for you. Especially not long after you were supposed to have already done so. Mary can't save you nor can she obtain salvation for you. It's blasphemy.

Huh?

I think you heard me.

True, and Catholics believe that too, she's a creation not divinity.

Lipservice. You talk out both sides of your mouth by saying she is not diety, then turn right around in ignorance I assume and ascribe to her things only diety can do. If you walk me to a garage saying "it has air conditioning, it can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, it has radio, spare tire in the trunk, all new trim and an oversized tank" I'm expecting to see a car.. But we open the door and it's still a bicycle. Mary isn't diety and therefor cannot do things that only the diety can do (lest we forget there is ONE God). Here oh WORLD, the Lord our God is ONE. Here oh Israel, the Lord our God is one. Mary can't hear prayer and can't answer prayer. She's not diety and cannot hear billions of people shouting at once for assistance nor recognize the mess or who's shouting, etc.. that is something only diety could do. And it doesn't deal with the fact that communication with the bodily dead is forbidden.. it carried the death sentence under the law. There is nothing about this that is not utterly against scripture. Every part of it one looks at is blasphemy. Or do you not know that contradicting scripture, God's word, is blasphemy. It calls God a liar.

[Havoc]

Christian is a term that is much abused by the devil and taken for himself according to prophecy. It is how the people of the world are decieved. Read your scriptures and use your head. This is about heeding God's word and getting people back to God's word and OUT of the Whore's false religious system - Christianity soaked in the whoredome of compromise with paganism and philosophy. As I've stated over and over again, scripture defines Christianity. And we know Christians by their fruits and their message. If you come with a message other than the Gospel as presented by Christ and the Apostles, you aren't a Christian. The judaizers didn't much like being accursed for adding to the Gospels; but, they taught another Gospel and Paul called them on it. They taught circumcision and maintaining righteousness by the LAW - IE EXPIATING ONE'S OWN SINS in Rome's language. Paul said let them be accursed. Rome anathematizes Paul on this point - in their ignorance or haughtiness. They preach self expiation and anathematize anyone who teaches otherwise. This would include Paul. So, this isn't about "Christians" getting along. It is about Christians telling people who claim Christianity and teach other than the true Gospel that they are going to Hell if they don't get it together. Unity isn't lipservice to getting along. Unity is Doing what GOD said to do. This isn't a club.

Islam may be of concern to the world. Saving souls is the concern of Christians. And one cannot save souls by selling a perverted Gospel to the world. It may get them into a club with an appearance of unity; but, it will damn them just as much as what they come out of. Your onus is in the wrong place.

[Havoc]

It isn't about the book, it's about the doctrine. You find for me in scripture where it says you can "Expiate" your own sins. It's a lie of the devil. You show me in scripture where it says God's Grace is put in a bank account and doled out by priests a bit at a time toward salvation. It isn't there. Christ and the Apostles taught salvation via belief and confession. Mormons use the same Bible plus all their added books and doctrines. So do the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.. This has been addressed over and over on this very thread by me. You teach another Gospel.

[Havoc]

And your point is. God saved 8 from the flood. How many do you think believed they were doing it right back then?
In the time of the Apostles, Asia turned away from Paul's teachings. Asia ain't tiny. So you'd have us believe if they were a majority, they'd be right in spite of Paul's protestations.. Right. That is the mindset we deal with. It isn't a numbers game.

[OLD REGGIE]

In the event of sede vacantism (the See of Peter being empty), it would be the Holy Spirit who guided and protected the Church, as promised by Christ.

I am well aware of the RCC teaching concerning a "vacancy" or, even more interesting, "well maybe there were three 'Popes' at the same time but one of them must have been the right one" kind of argument.

The fact is, in the numerous instances where months and years passed, including the "Diocletian persecution", before a new Pope was elected, the primary reason was internal power wars and political infighting within the ranks of the RCC.

[Cronos]

That isn't what is illustrated in that prayer #1

you mean "hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed arth thou amongst women?" It's the first part of the Hail MAry, the second part goes: "holy Mary, mother of God, pray FOR us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen."

hmmm.. Still no sign of a worshipping of Mary.

[Cronos]

communication with the bodily dead is forbidden #3

Summoning the bodily dead is forbidden, necromancy, seances etc. It's NOT the same thing and you're being disingenuous if you do say it is.

[Cronos]

Sorry, but the Pope is seeking his own salvation through Mary. Isn't he supposed to be saved already.

No, your interpretation is incorrect.

[Cronos]

Mary can't believe and confess for you.

How many times do I have to repeat, she Prays for you, she doesn't believe or confess for you.

[Fury]

Havoc writes:

Sorry, but the Pope is seeking his own salvation through Mary.

Please provide the citation of this.

[Cronos]

Mary can't save you nor can she obtain salvation for you. It's blasphemy

She doesn't save us, God saves us. Mary helps us and prays for us

[Cronos]

ascribe to her things only diety can do.

Nothing divine has been ascribed to her.

[Cronos]

Mary can't hear prayer and can't answer prayer.

And on what basis do you say that :
a. hearing mortals is purely can only be done by God and not by those saved by him and in heaven.
b. That if it is so, that God cannot, well, pass on the message to his faithful?

[OLD REGGIE]

(Reg) Here folks is the truth. People who challenged the Popes were also killed.

You're BOTH using generalisms.

Yes, and I did so deliberately to make a point which apparently was lost on some.

[Cronos]

Here oh WORLD, the Lord our God is ONE. Here oh Israel, the Lord our God is one.

And you're misquoting again, it is Sh'ma Y'israel, adonai elohanu, adonai echad" namely "Hear o Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is one".

That's the Kaddish. And it's exactly what Christians (and that means Catholics) believe viz. The Lord is ONE.

[Fury]

Havoc writes:

Anti-Catholicism is a garbage buzzword you guys throw around whenever anyone points out the errors and false nature of your claims.

Anti-Catholcism is not the issue. Havoc making claims that are not subsantiated with citations and erring in naming what is required to become a Christian (just one example) is an issue. And unlike our friend, I provide citations ;)

[Cronos]

There is nothing about this that is not utterly against scripture. Every part of it one looks at is blasphemy. Or do you not know that contradicting scripture

You see the words but you don't understand, you light on one small verse and quote it ad nauseum with no knowledge of the whole.