Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

THE controversial Mel Gibson film 'The Passion of the Christ' has been dismissed by the Evangelical Protestant Society as a 'Catholic' interpretation of events which "does not present the Gospel".

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus. None of this should surprise us, for both Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel, who plays the part of Christ, are enthusiastic devotees of the traditional teachings of the Church of Rome."

He further claims that Mel Gibson "belongs to an ultra-conservative Catholic group which does not recognise the reforms of Vatican II, and celebrates Mass in Latin".

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

Sadly, however, it will be welcomed and praised by many who ought to know better."

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."

[nickcarraway]

Yes, so her prayers are heard in Heaven, just like Revelation says. And as Paul said, all believers are joined in the Body of Christ. And as you quote Paul, all people are called to be saints.

[Havoc]

Praying for others is not the issue. It is no problem to pray for others. The issue you bring to the table is whether we can call God a liar and disobey his statutes just because we reason out that it seems ok to do so. Scripture tells us that interaction between the bodily living and the bodily dead is both impossible and disallowed. Paul therefore could not teach that speaking to or asking favors of the dead is ok - whether spiritually alive or not. Do you not know Paul's background - what he was before he was converted?

Praying for others is just fine. It's when you violate God's statutes and start trying to communicate with the bodily dead that you go off the plantation. And OT scripture addresses this issue DIRECTLY. Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? Isaiah is saying, literally, that we should be going to GOD not to dead people. Dead as in physical death, not spiritual so the terms are not twisted.

[TRY ONE]

"More importantly why did Paul ask others to pray for him? (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1) Why would Paul ask others to pray for him? Paul clearly believes it is not a sin to pray for others, or to ask for other to pray for you. Why would it be wrong to ask anyone connected to you in the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12: esp.27;Ephesians 4:esp.12) to pray for you?"

Intercessory Prayer is great! Praying for others is great!
The point is you don't pray for "saints" who are no longer here and you don't ask such "saints" i.e. Mary to pray for you now.

I would love to ask the Pope or Billy Graham to pray for me. But if they died --- I would not!

[nickcarraway]

I would love to ask the Pope or Billy Graham to pray for me. But if they died --- I would not!

That's your choice, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that the deceased can't pray to God. In fact, in Revelations, it says the opposite. And Paul often talks about how all believers are connected in the Body of Christ.(1 Corinthians 12: esp.27;Ephesians 4:esp.12)

[Jorge]

I'm a staunch Protestant and thought that the movie was wonderful. This review presents a very tiny minority opinion.

I agree. I think the film is one of the most powerful presentations of the Gospel message I have seen, and the fact that it is reaching millions is an astounding evangelical achievement.

[Havoc]

I have added nothing. It is all right there in scripture.
Even the new testament states "it is appointed to all men once to die and then the judgement." If Christ came to give us eternal life and then states we still must die, then you have a problem. Matthew 16:25 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." It's all right there.
Physical vs. Spiritual life. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" Speaking of the bodily dead. If they're alive in Christ, how then are they dead and in need of rising?

Even Ecclesiastes 9 differentiates between bodily death and spiritual death. Terms and understandings you have to know in order to understand salvation to begin with. Nothing is being added. I'd proffer that you either missed it in scripture or never thought to go looking for it. Read it for yourself.

[nickcarraway]

God is not a liar. Please read Deuteronomy and Isiah carefully. It condemns necromancy and witchcraft and such, not prayer. If you asked a living person to pray for something evil it would be bad too.

[nickcarraway]

This is what the Bible says. If you believe it's wrong, fine:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:15-16)

[NYer]

And last time I checked, asking favors from or praying to people who are bodily dead requires you to speak.

"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." - Revelations 5:8

2683. "The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, [Cf. Heb 12:1 .] especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer by the example of their lives, the transmission of their writings, and their prayer today. They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were 'put in charge of many things.' [Cf. Mt 25:21.] Their intercession is their most exalted service to God's plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world."
Catechism of the Catholic Church

[Jorge]

If you are questioning weather those referrences exist, you'd be better off looking for them yourself. You seem to be in need of a better acquaintance with the Bible

Like the previous poster I don't believe the Bible teaches anywhere to pray for the dead.
So if you can support your claim by all means post the scriptures.
Telling others to research the Bible to find scriptures to support YOUR claim, makes it sound like you are unable to do so yourself.

[Havoc]

careful careful.. The text doesn't say these prayers are directed either to the angels (a no no) or to the elders (a no no) You're adding to the text. And it is symbolic prophecy, not actual happenstance. You're trying to lift symbolism from prophecy to justify something already spoken plainly against in scripture elsewhere. The fact that it's already spoken plainly against means that your interpretation has to either (a) be wrong or (b) make God's word a lie. Those are the only two logical options. Thus in proper exegeting, we cannot conclude God to be a liar and it must mean something else. Not to mention the fact that it is Blasphemy to accuse God of lying or contradicting himself. He can do neither. Real problem you got goin there.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Has anyone here bitched about the prices at the snack bar? Seems to me to be the biggest problem.

[BibChr]

I'd say "no."

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us as in a tent...." (John 1:14)

Dan

[BibChr]

None whatever.