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To: Havoc
And last time I checked, asking favors from or praying to people who are bodily dead requires you to speak.

"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." - Revelations 5:8

2683. "The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, [Cf. Heb 12:1 .] especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer by the example of their lives, the transmission of their writings, and their prayer today. They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were 'put in charge of many things.' [Cf. Mt 25:21.] Their intercession is their most exalted service to God's plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world."
Catechism of the Catholic Church

352 posted on 03/19/2004 6:15:17 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: NYer
Been over it. quoting it again doesn't change it. It is symbolic prophecy. Quote Revelation all you wish. What you say thereafter is not scripture nor is it biblical.

The reference to Hebrews 12:1 notes we are surrounded with the witness of the stories of the saints who have gone on.
It says nothing of any interaction with them. Strike one.
Matthew 25:21 is speaking of the things done by the living, not the dead. Neither of these two verses gives any license to violate the statutes of ecclesiastes 9 or of the condemnations against communicating with the dead. Period.
You have just attempted to logically argue that the witness or deed of a living person makes them more physically useful to us when they are dead and we are no longer allowed to have audience with them - till we ourselves die anyway. A nonstarter.
392 posted on 03/19/2004 7:22:19 PM PST by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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