Analysts now doubt group's claim for Madrid bombing

World Tribune ^ | 3-19-04

[atomicpossum]

Who had the most to gain from these bombings? How about Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and his minions?

[MizSterious]

Ok, thank you! Most of the stories I saw and read said simply that the tape had been "found in a trash can."

[forrestroche]

"I don't know how many people here would be interested,but I did a bit of research on "el Partido Socialista Obrero Espanol" ( sorry-I don't know how to add the proper "tilde" mark to Espanol !)otherwise known as the Socialist Workers' Party ; on the Maoist terror group ETA (Euzkadi Ta Askatsuna), and on EE (Euskadiko Ezkerra) the political arm of ETA"


I would be interested. This should be good (forgive the tone, but I would really like to know where you get your information) I live in Spain and follow politics very closely here. As far as I know, the political wing of ETA (ultra-nationalists, not maoists) was until very recently Batasuna. They were outlawed either in late 2002 or early 2003, don't remember exactly, by the Partido Popular. They were reincarnated in the Basque parliament as Sozialista Abertzaleak, and outlawed again in a case that went to the supreme court after the Basque parliament refused to comply with the expulsion order. Batasuna's predecesors were Euskal Herritarrok and Herri Batasuna.

The Partido Socialista de Euskadi - Euskadiko Ezquerra is the regional branch of the national socialist party (PSOE), NOT the political wing of ETA. Many socialists (members of this party) have been assasinated by ETA (right along with PP members). Even most members of the Partido Popular would be shocked and angered to hear you call PSE-EE "the political arm of ETA".

As to wayoverontheright's comment:

"This looks like a frame up to me, since when did Socialists not consider their own citizens to be expendable to achieve their grand vision?"

The conservative (PP) government is still in office and will be for about the next month. Are they involved in the frame up too (this frame up that cost them the election)? They must be, because today they arrested (so far) five more morrocans in connection with the case...

I can find plenty of nasty things to say about the socialists without making stuff up.

forrest

[forrestroche]

One more thing, here's a partial reprint from a post I made on another thread. It is relevant to your comments re: supposed socialist ties to terrorism:



As to the Spanish Intelligence services I wouldn't expect any changes. Believe it or not, they were actually TOUGHER under the old socialist government that ended in 96. Part of the reason, aside from graft and poor economic policy, that they were thrown out was that the government was using mercenary death squads to cross the border with France, where ETA tends to hide, and whose government at the time wasn't very cooperative, and assasinate them. It caused a huge scandal when it came out. There is a great book, written by one of these mercenaries and recounting in part his experiences working as a "deniable link" for the Spanish Guardia Civil: Gayle Rivers (not his real name), ex-SAS, the book is titled the "War Against the Terrorists: How to Win It." It was out of print the last time I checked, but maybe it's back now. Yup, just checked, its available:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812830938/ref=pd_sim_books_1/104-7688938-5931966?v=glance&s=books

Some of the analysis doesn't necesarily apply to al Qaeda as it is an older book, but is definitely worth reading. At the time it was written Arab terrorists tended to be nationalists, not islamic jihadists, but like I said, check it out.

[CDHart]

"This looks like a frame up to me, since when did Socialists not consider their own citizens to be expendable to achieve their grand vision?"

Perhaps a modern Reichstag?

Carolyn

[elli1]

but did they mark the special drop-off trash can with a chalk mark or with spray paint?

Dunno--but we can probably rule out chewing gum. ;)

Serious answer is that the drop-off didn't need to be marked because the phone call to the television station accomplished that.

I don't know which station it was--maybe it was AJ. I don't give the station ''choice'' much weight as far as evidence is concerned--too ambiguous IMO.

[RetiredArmy]

Yadda, yadda, yadda. So, who did do it? A rogue militant group from Tibet?

[forrestroche]

"The problem with your theory is that the conventional wisdom, right up through the election, was that the attacks would result in a larger majority for the party in power."

None of the pundits really predicted a Socialist victory as a result of the attacks, which blows a great big hole in their potential motive."



I have to agree here with wayoverontheright even if I disagree adamantly with his (or her) conclusion. The analysis here was that if it was ETA that would slightly help the PP, if it was al Qaeda, that would possibly tilt the election for the socialists or at least cause the PP to lose their absolute majority and have to form a coalition government. I hope you take my word for it, but I can dig out last week's papers if you want (please say no, I believe you).

forrest

[forrestroche]

"I don't know which station it was--maybe it was AJ. I don't give the station ''choice'' much weight as far as evidence is concerned--too ambiguous IMO."

Let's clear this up once and for all. A man speaking spanish with an arab accent called TeleMadrid, a local broadcaster in Madrid, and informed them of the location of the trash bin/tape. TeleMadrid called the police who retrieved it after confirming that the bin wasn't booby-trapped.

An american in spain

[elli1]

That be true; I've read the same thing.

[elli1]

Thank you for the details. Given the time lag between the bombing & the tip-off on the tape, I'd be cautious about assigning too much credibility to tape. It might be real, but then again, it might be a bogus claim.

[cake_crumb]

I caught the reference to "crusade" too...but it doesn't matter. The fact is that al Qaeda was credited with the victory over Spain. It's too late to take that back now. It'll create a huge jump in terrorist recruits just drooling to "choose death"...which IS definitely an al Qaeda-ism, and was on the tape.

[cake_crumb]

That video of Binny taking credit for 9/11 sure sounded like an acknowledgement of involvement.

[cake_crumb]

Forgot to add that I agree, we shouldn't rule out Zapatero.

[B Knotts]

Good point.

Cui bono?

[forrestroche]

"Given the time lag between the bombing & the tip-off on the tape, I'd be cautious about assigning too much credibility to tape. It might be real, but then again, it might be a bogus claim."



The tape could be bogus (or not), but it has nothing to do with the above article (Analysts now doubt group's claim for Madrid bombing). The group mentioned there was Abu Hafs. They claimed responsibility in the London-based Al Quds Al Arabi daily. The tape was from a different group, believed to have committed the bombings in Casa Blanca last year. The man on the tape speaks arabic with a morrocan accent. (not to be confused with the voice that reported the location of the tape who spoke spanish, with an arab accent)... So far there is no consensus on the tape.

forrest

[Eva]

No, I don't think that the Socialists had anything to do with the bombing. I do believe that Aznar was right, but that the ETA were only the facilitators for the Jihadists, whoever they are. The wording of the note means nothing because the Al Qaeda are no longer a unified group. They are made up of many small groups, acting on their own in the name of Al Qaeda.

[wayoverontheright]

The conservative (PP) government is still in office and will be for about the next month. Are they involved in the frame up too (this frame up that cost them the election)? They must be, because today they arrested (so far) five more morrocans in connection with the case...

What I am suggesting may be totally and completely wrong in the end, but the fact that a lame duck government's investigative arm is arresting people doesn't put the kabosh to it. Are they to a man loyal to the current regime? Are they loyal but simply being misled? I'm sorry I wouldn't trust our own CIA under this kind of pressure.

I just can't bring myself to give al-Qaida credit for understanding this complex election dynamic, then seeing enough benefit to act on it. The only one who had sufficient motive and COULD grasp the outcome, is Zapatero and/or his minions.

1300 troops. Big deal. Iraq is still a quagmire for them, and the clock is ticking toward the day when Iraqis take over, and it will then BE OVER for al-Qaida in Iraq.

[forrestroche]

one more thing.

the time lag is no evidence of falsity. it was actually a pretty quick claim of responsibility. the government actually said the promptness of the claim made the tape (and the london claim) suspicious. but if they intended to influence the elections, they needed it out there.