Setting the Record Straight - [FR v. The NY Times, Or How NOT To Do Activism]

New York Times ^ | March 14, 2004 | Daniel Okrent

[MeekOneGOP]

I don't know a single person in this world that can rightfully claim to never have made a mistake. (Lord knows I have made enough). If someone like that existed, I don't think I would want to know that person. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and go forward, imho.

Keep up the great work, Doug. Give 'em HE** !!!

[freedumb2003]

This isn't a "mistake" in the "mistakes were made," "we hired and then promoted Jason Blair" "Mr. & Mrs. Kerry, its a boy" vein.

This is more a matter of a reader, not a professional journalist with any requirement to go beyond the words on the page before him, coming to a logical conclusion based on the facts before him. Even the NYT in their response back to dfu apologizes for the sloppiness and exonerates dfu (if I read the post properly).

I think this is good work by dfu and is EXACTY how to go about activism. We need them to think about every word and every context they print. They need to blow the 3" of dust off their old college textbooks about "journalism" and try to follow a page or 2 from it. Typing is not writing.

Way to go dfu!

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks. I sent DFU a note also so that he understands I support exposing the
Slimes to their faulty and biased reporting, mentioning Jayson Blaire as well.

Again, give 'em he**, Doug !

[Hon]

I agree completely.

[js1138]

For example, one important factor is whether your use will deprive the copyright owner of income.

This may seem a little obvious, but Kerry's book is out of print and will remain out of print. He can lose no income as a result of people displaying pictures of it.

Another issue is whether a picture of the book is newsworthy and whether it is necessary as part of a political debate, and of course, whether those who show the picture are profiting from the display.

[TomGuy]

Stevenson's telephone number was reproduced in the posting in large black letters.

Uhhhh, being picky.....wouldn't that be 'large black numbers'?

[dirtboy]

This is not good. (And it is untrue that all publicity is good publicity.)

Too bad the Times is never so prompt or forthcoming to correct their own mistakes. So screw 'em.

[MeekOneGOP]

Thank you ! I assume it's okay to use that to post, then ??

[Interesting Times]

Thank you ! I assume it's okay to use that to post, then ??

Here? Finding that out is one of the reasons I posted it...

[sauropod]

I'm assuming you saw the follow-on thread. The one FReeper that left his name and number was doug from upland.

Which you should have known had you been paying attention.

Doug did an honorable thing and put up a thread correcting what was wrong. And now you are here to rub salt into the wound?

[MeekOneGOP]

Not my best post ever, I guess. I just am a bit gun shy after the Corbis thing, ya know ??

Thanks ! ;^)

[Hon]

I'm assuming you saw the follow-on thread. The one FReeper that left his name and number was doug from upland.
Which you should have known had you been paying attention.

Doug did an honorable thing and put up a thread correcting what was wrong. And now you are here to rub salt into the wound?"

Doug screwed up big time. He whipped up a bunch of people to make calls about something he was mistaken about. I don't mean to single him out, but it happened--and it is not the first time this sort of thing has happened.

My point is so subtle it may have escaped you: People shouldn't whip up "Freeps" unless they have their facts straight. It discredits everyone associated with this site.

And it doesn't matter that the Times gets things wrong, or the the media is biased. It doesn't really matter if Doug is sorry about it. It was a screw up and it was counter-productive.

[Fiddlstix]

[sauropod]

I see. And you are here to point it out.

I have a lot of concerns with some on this site here. But they are probably not the same as yours.

I got your "subtle" point the first time. Thanks anyway.

[Hon]

I don't mean to sound snippy, but I just went through this same rigamarole a few weeks ago when Registered decided to interject himself into the Fonda-Kerry nexus story with his hoax photo.

Many (in fact) most Freepers argued that that was a great thing and applauded Registered. But it was a death blow to a major story that I had put a lot of time and effort into.

In fact, just last Thursday, in his press conference on Capitol Hill, Kerry used the faked photo to discredit the real photo and his real working association with Fonda.

Granted this is not nearly of the same magnitude as Registered's (intentional) action. But everyone at FR owes it to themselves and fellow members to be very careful about doing these sort of things (such as calling down "Freeps") without dotting every tittle.

[FairOpinion]

This is where one link goes

http://www.greenberet.net/Kerry/VVAW/dewey3.htm

It seems to link to it OK.

It's about Dewey Canyon. It also has the picture of Kerry throwing his medals -- excuse me, someone else's medals over the fence.

[NYCVirago]

Okrent's purpose is the root of the difference between the in print and online stances...they address two different audiences. People who get news online, even at the NYT, are exposed to non-liberal perspectives and the bias of the NYT is immediately obvious. For that audience, it needs to be 'addressed' to preserve the paper's power and profitability. The print readers rely on the traditional media, big papers and network TV. They are insulated in a bubble of liberal dogma. Acknowledging and addressing the bias to this audience would hurt the paper's profitability and power.

Excellent analysis. I agree completely.

[doug from upland]

Okay, I have not responded directly, but after No. 92, I must respond. You appeared here at the beginning of January and I have praised you for your great work. I don't want a flame war because I want you to continue your good work. I'm sure we will be friends.

On this site for 7 years I have been very active. I've been active in the street. You have no idea of what I did behind the scenes during the Clinton impeachment. My friends of many years on this site are aware. They are aware of parading in front of the White House with an eviction notice, organizing the demonstration in front of Hillary HQ during the 2000 campaign, several communications with Juanita Broaddrick to bring her story forward, encouraging Juanita to write the open letter to Hillary, etc. Perhaps my favorite was the political bitch slap given to Tom Daschle on CSPAN at the Town Hall meeting in Ontario where the president spoke three years ago. In my praise of the president as a great commander in chief, it almost brought tears to his eyes, and the question teed it up for him to discuss his energy policy. That's a short list of my activism.

I don't need a lesson in activism from you. Your add on tag to the headline was insulting, but I initially let it pass. I am going to demand that the TIMES allow me to respond. This publicity is ultimately going to help.

Now, if you want to stab someone in the back, please do it to a DemocRAT.

[MeekOneGOP]

It's about Dewey Canyon. It also has the picture of Kerry throwing his medals -- excuse me, someone else's medals over the fence.

Oh, thanks. That link is working now. I guess either they were down before or it was my computer ...