How Bad is it in America? Breaking an arm among the thirty million without health care

victorhanson.com ^ | March 13, 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

[billorites]

I broke my arm last week and went into the emergency room at our local hospital about 24 hours after a Sunday morning accident. My family doctor told me to go to the ER first to get an x-ray and then take it over to his office later that Monday afternoon.

[jimbo123]

I spent 8 hours yesterday getting treatment in a Brooklyn area ER. Approximately 33% of the patients were heart attack and other trauma victims. Another 33% were patients who had other important needs, but weren't priority based on the trauma cases. The remaining 33% were lonely elderly people, hypocondriacs or scammers who wanted free prescription drugs. One of the worst experiences in my life. The staff were good. But the trauma patients took priority of course, and the 33% lonely/hypocondriacs/scammers got in the way of the 33% of us who needed treatment, but weren't trauma cases.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

And it is not just the medical staff that is overloaded because of this either. The hoops the billing staff must jump through for Medicare/Medicaid patients is unbelievable. Because of this office staff almost outnumbers medical staff at many hospitals.

Another reason why medical costs keep rising.

[omegatoo]

our government at great cost and in the hallowed traditions of American humanity and magnanimity is offering hourly excellent medical care to literally anyone who walks through the emergency room door, whether they have a broken arm or a sprained ankle

Actually, the government is requiring that hospitals provide excellent medical care at great cost to the hospitals. Many patients are not covered by government programs, and medicaid pays only a small percentage of the actual cost of the care. That's why health care costs are rising out of control.

O2

[templar]

Yep. I would say a good third of the people who go to the doctor fall in that category.

My observation is that this is what keeps Chiropractors in business: Lonely, neglected, or neurotic people willing to pay to get attention. Perhaps we could include Chiropractic care in the pills for geezers program.

BTW, my comment is about the patients, not the relative value of Chiropractic practice.

[My2Cents]

No, he's not had a conversion. He just has a more realistic perspective of illegal immigration than Pat Buchanan does, having lived in a farming community in the California Central Valley all his life. Read his book; it's a balanced view of the problem:

[PAR35]

My 1999 Mazda

Some of us would consider THAT a new car.

[Publius6961]

Actually, the government is requiring that hospitals provide excellent medical care at great cost to the hospitals.

Wrong!
At great cost to other patients who can either pay or have medical insurance that they help pay for at a significant rate.

On New years day I spent a total of 6 hours in the waiting room and two hours in the emergency treatment section, had two x-rays and one MRI, and spent 2 hours hooked up to monitoring equipment, and was spoken to for 5 minutes at a time by three different doctors (shift change).
By mistake they lost my health insurance information and sent me a bill: total $6000 +

No way anybody can convince me that I got that amount of treatment.

[omegatoo]

OK, at great cost to hospitals who pass that cost on to other patients, thus raising the cost of health care. If the hospital hadn't sent the bill to you instead of your insurance co., odds are you would not have noticed the high costs. The hospital bills $6000 for the care, but probably gives a discount to the insurance co. Medicare and medicaid decide what they think each part of the care is worth, and pays only a fraction of that to the hospital, causing many hospitals to actually lose money when they treat medicaid or medicare patients. Many ER patients have no insurance at all, but if they come in with the same complaint that you did, they must get exactly the same care as you did, including the MRI, or the hospital can be fined and lose government funding.

As more people "choose" not to be insured and not to pay their bills (no not all uninsured don't pay) the hospitals raise the amount they bill so that the insurance companies basically take up the slack.

The paying uninsured are the only ones who don't have the leverage to pay less than the highest costs.

O2

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

My observation is that this is what keeps Chiropractors in business: Lonely, neglected, or neurotic people willing to pay to get attention.

Humans have a great need to be touched. I am not talking about sex, I am talking about simple touch. A Chiropractor would be a way to fulfill that need for some people.

They might not even be aware of it. They just know that they "feel better" and not understand that it is the touching rather then the back cracking that is responsible for it.

[Missouri]

Interesting read from FAIR.

Link to FAIR's data on immigrants and sky-rocketing medical cost

[cryptical]

Last year I went to the emergency room with a mild heart attack. Walked a couple blocks from work, because I didn't want to put anyone to any trouble...

I got to intake, gave them my symptoms, chest pain, sweats, etc. There was a girl in there before me who went ballistic that they took me first, because she had a sore toe. She ended up storming out. I ended up in a cardiac cath lab in less than 10 minutes, getting an angioplasty.

My cost? Not a dime out of pocket. Made all that medical insurance over the years worth it.

[ReagansShinyHair]

When we lived in Riverside, the ER was so crowded with illegals and non-sick people that they sent me home four times with a leaking appendix. I almost died. I lasted almost a week without eating anything before my husband finally called an ambulance for our final trip to the ER.

One woman in the ER waiting room the first trip stands out in my memory. She kept saying she was worried about how sick her daughter was, as she was feeding the kid McDonald's and the kid was laughing and playing around. ER-level-of-sickness-kids don't eat McDonald's. I watched the obviously healthy kid from a fetal position on the dirty waiting-room carpet. I'm sure she had a very low ER copay if she took her kid to the ER for basically nothing.

BTW, my monthly contribution to my job health insurance just went up to $800/month for a family (I thought it was $600, but I just checked again on the notice and it's $800!). $200 just for myself. Luckily, we can get insurance through my husband's job much cheaper. Otherwise, we would seek an alternative outside of job-insurance. We would not go without, even if it means a high deductible.

[ExSES]

If the hospital hadn't sent the bill to you instead of your insurance co., odds are you would not have noticed the high costs. The hospital bills $6000 for the care, but probably gives a discount to the insurance co.

Exactly! While I was aware of this, the reality hit home when I recently went to an emergency room following an auto accident and was told that I would be given an 80% discount for paying cash (via credit card) as opposed to billing as a workers' compensation claim (which it was)...

A bizarre world we live in (but I can certainly see the logic in the hospital's position!)...

[ReagansShinyHair]

There was a girl in there before me who went ballistic that they took me first, because she had a sore toe. She ended up storming out. I ended up in a cardiac cath lab in less than 10 minutes, getting an angioplasty.

I think women like that are the reason why women are not taken seriously by doctors. Too many women are hypochondriacs and it makes all of us look bad. On one of my ER trips with my leaking appendix, one woman entered the waiting room, looked at all the people waiting and said, "Oh, maybe I don't have an emergency after all." Sheesh.

[Go Gordon]

I guess putting an INS agent in every hospital wouldn't stem them activities? Heck, if illegals are afraid to look for work because they are here illegally, logically it would follow that treatment followed by deportation would cut down on the abuse of the healthcare system. Would it make some illegals forego necessary medical treatment? Maybe. But unless it were life-threatening, I don't think most Americans would give two sh.....aving creams.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yep...and as was noted, "some" of these people who complain about not having health insurance do have a choice. They can get rid of the cell phone, the walkman, the cable and the $150 dollar sneakers. While times may be tough for some people, many people don't know what tought times, are. We have become such an over-indulgent society, that too many people look at their luxuries as neccessities...and choose not to protect themselves. The "M.E." virus has obviously spread from the '60s to the new century...with no cure in sight.

I think most would argue we have the best quality of care available anywhere. But that isn't to say the the costs aren't completely out of whack. They are.

I am a 36 year old pretty healthy person. I never go to the doctor unless there is something ~very~ wrong. And my individual policy costs $225 a month. That's just for me. No kids. Before having this job where I paid it myself, I was completely unaware of the cost, it was invisible, paid by employer. ~AND~ the infuriating thing is, I have a $500 annual deductible with that premium. So I have paid full out of pocket for every visit I have ever made. So $3000 per year, and I am not covered to go to the doctor. So my medical coverage is much less a daily need for me, and far more than my $20/month cell phone. It shouldn't be about failing to live so I can afford health insurance. Lots of money for the long shot possibility that I ~might~ have a really serious illness or accident one of these months. So far it is money down the drain, and pretty hard to justify on my salary. So far I'd have been much better off with a medical savings account.

All this means is... for relatively healthy people who just need contingency emergency coverage, we can go broke being covered and still not be covered. The system is broken and needs fixing. I don't know what the right answer is, but I would start with tort reform until we can breed a generation that isn't so enamoured with lawsuits.

[eleni121]

The first time I ever saw a big screen TV was in the home of a welfare receiving student of mine. All her expenses were covered by the US taxpayer - tuition, food, rent, health care - so why not buy a big screen TV.

[cwb]

The system is broke...but part of the reason why is because of government and trial attorneys. Lawsuits and insurance liability premiums are rasing the costs on everything in the healthcare system. I forgot what the exact cost was, but for a pharmacuetical company to bring a new drug to market, it was something like $356 million in FDA and government costs. With the new regulations and costs that went into affect in the 90's, many nursing homes and teaching hosptals closed because they couldn't cope with the new regulations. The fact is, the democrats are using the power of government legislation (and lawyers) to impede the effectiveness of healthcare in this country so people get so pissed off they demand a change.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

So far I'd have been much better off with a medical savings account.

You might be able to get one depending on what area of the country you are in.

Medical and Health Savings Account Plans

[DumpsterDiver]

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