Ohio's Critical Analysis of Evolution

Critical Evaluation of Evolution ^ | March 2004 | Ohio State Board of Education

[Fester Chugabrew]

This is a position that will forever be in retreat.

How do you know? Do you know how many people subscribe to this position and whether their number is increasing or decreasing? It may be a position that dogmatic evolutionists retreat FROM, but the position itself could very well be on the march.

[Elsie]

The problem is that if you pin it on Man, you have to ignore the genetic evidence that retrotransposons (evil little buggers that they are) entered the human line long before we diverged from the apes; the same goes for much of the other nonsense in the genome.

 

Only if you ASSUME that pan T and H Sapiens came from a 'common' ancestor.

 

If one believes that ALL of Crestion got messed up; then you don't.

[Elsie]

However, calculating how long that might take involves so many very loose estimates that I'm sure people could come up with scientifically justifiable estimates that differed by orders of magnitude

Why so loose? Do the math and get the upper and lower limits, and we'll see if they fit into lifetime estimates of the Earth/Moon system.

[Elsie]

Are you saying that Adam was UNCONSCIOUS when he NAMED the animals?

[js1138]

It doesn't matter how many people believe something, as easily demonstrated by today's events in Baghdad.

What matters is that ID proponents support their position by pointing to an object, such as a flagellum, and say, "This is irreducibly complex; there can be no functional subcomponents of this. It needs all its pieces to work."

Biologists come along and demonstrate that pieces of the flagellum structure do in fact have useful functions and do exist in living bacteria.

This is what I mean by being in perpetual retreat. There is no part of a living thing that will not be investigated, and so far, nothing that has been investigated has been irreducibly complex.

You can get 1.2 billion people to close their eyes and pretend that this doesn't happen, and yet it continues to happen.

This is not simply about being right or wrong. It is about asking the right questions. If you are doing science, the right question is always, "How could this have come about through natural processes." If this isn't your question, you aren't doing science.

[Elsie]

But I'll be held accountable anyway.

Just who told you that??

THESE verses perhaps???

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Matthew 12:36-37

 36.  But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
 37.  For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

Romans 3:19

  Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

 

Romans 14:11-12
 11.  It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
 12.  So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

 

Hebrews 4:13

  Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

Galatians 2:15-16

 15.  "We who are Jews by birth and not `Gentile sinners'
 16.  know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

 

Galatians 3:11
   Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."

 

 

The truth is we will ALL be held accountable, and there is NO way we can escape judgement!

 

But..................

 

Romans 5:12-20
12.  Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
 13.  for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
 14.  Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
 15.  But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
 16.  Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
 17.  For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
 18.  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
 19.  For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

 

Hebrews 4:14-16

 14.  Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,  Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.
 15.  For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.
 16.  Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

 

 

Galatians 3:13-14

 13.  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
 14.  He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

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Matthew 12:37

  "For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

So, just WHAT has been 'your words'?

 

Do you confess that Jesus IS your Savior, or not?

 

Have you clung to His garment to hear, "Neither do I condemn you..."?

 

Everyone knows John 3:16, but the IMPORTANT one follows...

 

John 3:17
  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

[Elsie]

And, in the same way, there is no way to tell if an entity is designed, without looking at how it came to be.

Here comes that guy with his hammer again!!!!

[Elsie]

...nothing that has been investigated has been irreducibly complex.

Nothing?

[Junior]

Do you know how many people subscribe to this position and whether their number is increasing or decreasing?

Actually, it depends upon the evidence to support the position. Science ain't a personality contest.

[Junior]

Nope. I said he, like the animals, had no inkling of the distinction between good and evil.

[jennyp]

Darn, just as the thread was getting philosophically interesting, my computer goes down for a couple days. i'm trying to type on hubby's laptop. God how i hate laptop keyboards!

[balrog666]

Nothing?

Do you have something you want to suggest?

[js1138]

If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly. If you are going to debate, I would ask you politely to do it in good faith. Good faith meas trying to understand the context of someone else's statement.

The issue I raised was whether ID proponents had produced an example of an irreducibly complex biological object. If you insist on lawyer-proof statements from everyone in this discussion, I for one will stop responding to you. I suspect nearly everyone else already has.

[Elsie]

If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly.

I didn't??

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If anyone throws out little tidbits imbedded among lots of words that I find to be, shall we say, questionable, I WILL continue to point them out.

If I do not respond to something you've typed, you can probably infer that I have no comment.

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I for one will stop responding to you. I suspect nearly everyone else already has.

Well, if they have no response, what ELSE can they do?

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Amen to the laptop keyboards!!!

[Elsie]

Don't worry... There ain't an "E" alive that will let a Crevo be the last guy standing........ ;^)

[js1138]

I have keyboard problems too. Can't spell worth a darn.

[balrog666]

It's okay to talk to yourself, but when you start answering ...

[Shryke]

That's a good thought. ID is the French theory.

Pardon the ass-kiss, but that is just perfect.

[longshadow]

There would have been riots!

When The Life of Brian opened here, we had only 3 days to catch it before the local fundamentalist witch doctors got it banned.

But it is a classic! The shoe, the shoe! No, the gourd, the Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!

While not Python's best film, it had its moments: the "arguing space aliens in the careening UFO" scene was my personal favorite, as it occurs with no warning, and is over within about 15 seconds. I was in tears.....

Most of it I can't remember, as I haven't seen it in many years.... maybe I'll just have to rent it.....

[Shryke]

While not Python's best film, it had its moments: the "arguing space aliens in the careening UFO" scene was my personal favorite, as it occurs with no warning, and is over within about 15 seconds. I was in tears.....

That is my favorite as well, but you left out the best part: when he survives the "trip" with the aliens, he looks up from the rubble, and a man who happened to watch the WHOLE thing says, "you lucky bastard!"