Posted on 03/04/2004 10:24:16 PM PST by churchillbuff
Edited on 03/05/2004 10:48:45 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Gibson's Blood Libel
By Charles Krauthammer Friday, March 5, 2004; Page A23
Every people has its story. Every people has the right to its story. And every people has a responsibility for its story. ...[snip]
Christians have their story too: the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Why is this story different from other stories? Because it is not a family affair of coreligionists. If it were, few people outside the circle of believers would be concerned about it. This particular story involves other people. With the notable exception of a few Romans, these people are Jews. And in the story, they come off rather badly.
Because of that peculiarity, the crucifixion is not just a story; it is a story with its own story -- a history of centuries of relentless, and at times savage, persecution of Jews in Christian lands. This history is what moved Vatican II, in a noble act of theological reflection, to decree in 1965 that the Passion of Christ should henceforth be understood with great care so as to unteach the lesson that had been taught for almost two millennia: that the Jews were Christ killers.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
There is no question that there is a virluent current of anti-Jewish feeling amongst Christian and Muslims Arabs from Palestine and Lebanon. But this is a recent development, nourished by the harsh reality of foreign occupation. The Christians of Palestine have lived there since the days of Jesus Christ. The Muslims for 1300+ years.
The Jews left (mostly). The Christians stayed. The Muslims came. And stayed. Before the 1930s-- during both the British mandate and throughout the Ottoman period, all of these people lived and behaved in a fairly tolerant atmosphere. As far as titles and deeds, some Christian and Muslim Palestinians maintain title to this land dating from the 1600s.
Political/diplomatic solution... Perhaps when they exhaust themselves in the blood of their children.
With regard to the UN, it was the UN that took this land from Arab Christians and Muslims-- land that had been theirs for at least a millenium-- and handed it to foreigners.
Finally, I don't think God is in the real estate business, except as a developer-- in the cosmic and universal sense.
Besides, when Jesus returns, he'll settle the matter expeditiously.
I have to disagree with you. My post does not attack any religion, nor was I being indiscriminate at who I was targeting my post to. I was making observations about many of the ugly posts contained within, and which I cleary clarified as "many" in my initial post. In short, the post was *directed* to "all," to discuss the *many* ad-hominem attacks. Its not unlike when the President speaks to the nation (all) to discuss a problem caused by certain legislators (many). When he does this, and is subtly refering to the Ted Kennedys, the Rick Santorums do not mistake this as an attack on them. However, it was my full intention to call out those who rather than intellectually tear apart Krathammer's theories, opted to invoke crude epithets to tear down Krathammer himself. To me, that kind of behavior should be left to the faithful over at Moveon.com and other leftwing outlets. I would hope the fine people here at Free Republic would be a little more intelligent when analyzing articles we take issue with. I'd take you more seriously if you actually addressed the numerous posts that displayed the analyses you now claim you seek. |
There is no question that there is a virluent current of anti-Jewish feeling amongst Christian and Muslims Arabs from Palestine and Lebanon. But this is a recent development, nourished by the harsh reality of foreign occupation. The Jews left (mostly). With regard to the UN, it was the UN that took this land from Arab Christians and Muslims-- land that had been theirs for at least a millenium-- and handed it to foreigners. Finally, I don't think God is in the real estate business, except as a developer-- in the cosmic and universal sense. Besides, when Jesus returns, he'll settle the matter expeditiously.
|
Emotions drive his logic everytime he writes on the middle east.
I've about had enough as well. My eyes are wide open...uncomfortably so.
Thank you very much. Last night, after I posted my tagline a friend of mine gave me grief over it and told me I was building a wall between the believers and the non-believers, and that I should delete it. I explained that anti-Christian comments are becoming bolder and incessant, and that after one full year of being told by the non-believers that the Passion was anti-semitic, full of gratuitous violence and with nothing good to show except trashing the Jews, I had reached a point where I can no longer remain silent. Last night in my prayers I asked the Lord if my tagline was wrong and you replied this morning.
I went to Catholic School for most of my education, and after seeing this movie I can attest that it is true to the Gospel borrowing some artistic license of course. There are a few things in this movie that aren't written in the Scriptures, so if we decide to pick on a specific scene and say, but that's not in the Scriptures therefore, the movie is wrong, that doesn't make the argument right. Let's take for instance the devil, there is nothing in the Scriptures that says the devil is a woman with a man's voice who appeared carrying a midget while Jesus was being scourged. However, the spirit of the devil is portrayed in the movie as Mel said, satan doesn't have horns and carry a pitchfork, but is a seductive figure, almost beautiful but not quite. The devil takes something good and twists it and perverts it, like the baby satan was carrying and it turned out that it wasn't.
Some others complained that the presence of Caiaphas in the movie during the scourging and the crucifixion isn't written in the Scriptures, however, the religious leaders and the chief priests were there, and the Jews who wanted Jesus dead were present, thus their antagonistic spirit is portrayed through Caiaphas. Let's look at the Scriptures:
John 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged [him].John 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put [it] on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
John 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
John 19:4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
John 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And [Pilate] saith unto them, Behold the man!
John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify [him], crucify [him]. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify [him]: for I find no fault in him.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
John 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
John 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
John 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with [him], away with [him], crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
John 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led [him] away.
John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called [the place] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
John 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, [and] Greek, [and] Latin.
John 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
John 19:22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
John 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].
John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
John 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to his mouth.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.
John 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
John 19:35 And he that saw [it] bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
Abe Foxman was upset with one of the scenes in this movie in which the high priest says, let His blood be on us and on our children. He called Gibson antisemitic and blasted him for inciting hatred. So Gibson removed the scene from this film yet, it is written in the Scriptures
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
It is ironic that non-believers blast us with so much intolerance while demanding tolerance from us. A lot of them haven't seen the movie but judge something they haven't seen, or if they have, they don't understand Christianity. They judge the Gospel, which they haven't read and call us anti-semitic, ignorant fools, and Jew bashers. It is ironic they tell us to respect their religion while they trash ours. The way I see it, this movie is testing our beliefs, is making us to come out in the open and show who we really are what's in out hearts.
Maia Morgenstern the actress who "plays Mary in the film is the daughter of Holocaust survivors but says she does not consider the film anti-Semitic. She told the Associated Press if the film has a message it's more about how people can be manipulated by their leaders. " She also said, "Mel Gibson is an artist, a director. He never imposed his religious convictions on anyone," LINK
It doesn't. It was the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and occupation of the Arabs of Palestine that has engendered this hatred. As far as the Syrian Alawites/Muslims: it seems the Christian leadership of Lebanon view the Syrians as their allies-- and views the Jews of Israel as their enemies.
"Why should the occupation of Jordan -- which was formed to be the "palestinian homeland" -- by Arabian Hashemites cause anyone to hate Jews?"
What right did the UN have to "create" a Palestinian homeland? Or decide that the people who lived in historic Palestine(Christian and Muslim) were to give up half their land to foreigners. As far as the Hashemites-- they're Arabs who have deep roots in the Hijaz and Northern Arabia, and many Arabs only wish they could be ruled by the Jordanian Hashemites.
"Oh, there's a succinct way of saying "the Jews were murdered and driven out."
Many Jews were murdered and driven out, but not by the Christian of Palestine, and not even by the Muslims who conquered the area around 640AD. The first wave of Jewish departure began in the Roman period. The second wave occurred around the time of the Crusades, when Arab Christians, Muslims, and Jews were slaughtered by European Christians who couldn't tell them apart. The Jews, quite intelligently, decided to move. Many went to Iran,Iraq and Arab North Africa and Spain. Back then, the Muslim empires weren't destructive totalitarian Wahabbis, and the Jews were at the very least tolerated. That was not possible in medieval European Christendom, or sadly, today's Islamic world.
"What is now Israel was largely depopulated by the 19th Century, and it was the Turks who began selling land to the Jews in the latter part of that Century." The first part of what you state here is unfortunately factually incorrect, the latter part is true. The Turks did sell some land to Jews, as did the Brits and some Arabs during the mandate period. But where you're off dramatically is the idea that the Palestinians are merely the descendants of a handful of nomadic bedouins. The Palestinians (Muslim and Christian) were overwhelmly a settled city people living off the often lucrative business of religious pilgrimage. They were also farmers whose fathers had tilled that land for a millenium. To this day, there are Palestinin families whose olive groves are still nurtured with the same tender care as they were a thousand years ago. Except, of course, when the Israelis burn them.
In 1920, the demographic balance between Arabs (Christian and Muslim) and Jews in Palestine was at least 4-1. At least a million people lived there. The demographic balance shifted a little due to massive Jewish emigration to the Holy Land, and then through the forced expulsion of the Arabs in 1948. (By the way, even the Israelis now admit that Israel could not have survived without the forcible removal of the Arabs)
As far as chosen peoples go, God chooses different peoples to carry his word at different times. Once he chose the Jews, but the Jews rejected Jesus.
But we digress... this thread is about Jesus. Did you like the movie? I saw it with my Muslim relatives and my Catholic in-laws. Gibson was true to the Injeel (the Good News). Most movies about Christ are so sanitized they fail to inspire. This one was powerful. Mostly historically accurate. And the fluent Arabic speakers amongst my relatives loved the Aramaic as they picked up words and word roots here and there.
Regards
Nor does the movie in any way prompt me to think less of Jewish people. All of humanity bears the guilt. I sincerely felt that the script and movie was very faithful to the Gospels.
I totally agree.
Perhaps you can show us again your own reflection of it.
I don't hate Buddhists. I just hate their demon spawned pollytheistic garbage religion. - mercy
Those who criticize this movie don't understand its purpose, or the nature of faith, hope love, and forgivness this movie portrays.
I will be going to this movie again tonight with my boss as he wants to go, but wanted to go with someone. (His wife isn't quite ready yet...)
Even after a attending this movie a week ago, I still feel just as strong about its message as I did the night I saw it.
As a Catholic you see all the dots connected as the Passion is played out.
Mel indeed as done a tremendous job, and those who oppose this movie, don't understand the Gospels, or the message that it sends.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him may not parish, but have everlasting life. John 3.16
If that is a message of hate, or division then society is indeed in trouble.
"A small persecuted minority destined for extinction?" Who do you think you're kidding? Jews in America make far more money and have more power than the average American. In proportion to their numbers they're over-represed in law schools medical schools, college faculties in general, in the media, Hollywood, on best seller lists, on the editorial page, on the Forbe's 400 list of richest Americans, in congress and on the U.S. Supreme Court. Not only are Jews not persecuted in America, polls show they are actually one of the most "admired" groups in the country. Where have you been for the last 60 years? In the Warsaw ghetto?
Mel indeed has done a tremendous job, and those who oppose this movie, don't understand the Gospels, or the message that it sends.
Thanks Jay. I see it the same way.
If that is a message of hate, or division then society is indeed in trouble
Or maybe we are not giving enough credit to the devil, hehe.
We see you.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.