[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Though I'm not Catholic, I've studied the Shroud of Turin and watched a multitude of documentaries over the years about it. I've always been drawn to them, always fascinated by them. I believe the Shroud is what it is, "The Burial Cloth of Jesus Christ".

Which is why I found I HAD to pull research regarding it after seeing "The Passion of The Christ". I'm glad I did.

They say the movie is TOO VIOLENT. This article and Dr. Rabil's research only verified what we just watched. Jesus was flayed open by His scourging before He was cruxified.

But moreover.. Jesus was so brave, and He loved us all so much. But even more amazing He repeatedly said "FORGIVE THEM.. FORGIVE THEM.. FORGIVE THEM".

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".

Even a person who does not realize WHO He is, should have walked away with "that" message alone". Especially in light of His torture and the brutality that was done to Him. Christians aren't the ones who are crying foul here. We are just retelling what happened to our precious Lord! How precious He is!!

There was NO anti-semetism in this movie. Jesus is a Jew "and" a Rabbi. It would be the epitomy of "IGNORANCE" to believe it was anti-semetic.

But it is so irrational to not come away with the overpowering feeling of LOVE, FORGIVENESS, and SACRIFICE this movie shows all of us.

I do not hate EVEN those who did this to Jesus. If He didn't, then how dare I?

But I wanted to point out that the Shroud, PROVES that the voilence that was bestowed upon Jesus, did indeed happen. 120 wounds on his back and calves, his right eye from his CAP of thorns, his nose. The Shroud tells a story. The MOVIE allowed us to really SEE and FEEL in very real ways, what our Father went through. My elderly parents (both in their 80's) said "They always knew Jesus was crucified, but they never really "felt" it like this. Though very devoted Christians. This movie changed the level of understanding for them. And they are really greatful for it.

He bore our sins.

I kept saying under my breath throughout the movie:

"Thank you Jesus".. "Thank you". "Oh no".. "Oh Jesus.. I'm so sorry"..and then again.. "Thank you Jesus" and "I love you Jesus"!

And at the end.. when HE LIVED AGAIN.. I said softly "PRAISE GOD"!!!

Did I cry at times. Yes. Mel Gibson did an excellent job of FINALLY putting a very human side to Jesus. And He was human! But I wasn't sobbing. Because there is also GREAT JOY to know He came here for us.

We "are" after all the sinners He died for. But I do not feel guilt. That isn't what Jesus wants for or from us. He is a LOVING Father. He wants so much more for us than that.

I'm just thankful that Mr. Gibson MADE this movie, and PRAY that it will counter all the EVIL that is against it, and that has been working in our society.

So I hope you will ping your friends to this article about the SHROUD OF TURIN.

IMHO it is "PROOF" that the violence that was done to Jesus did happen.

And this movie is PROOF that Jesus FORGAVE His enemies and those who crucified Him.

Wouldn't it be nice if say those in the Middle East could LEARN from a movie like this?

FRegards FRiends

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1090859/posts

[agooga]

It's fake.

[dangus]

Excellent posting. Great story, and great commentary.

[theDentist]

Carbon dating shows the shroud to be from 1350-ish, just before it was discovered.

[Sloth]

It'd be nice if it was real, though I've never seen anything to really indicate that it is.

[theDentist]

By the way: Has anyone ever taken a DNA sample from the Shroud? DNA does give a lot of info about the person's heritage, true?

[anonymous_user]

the Shroud, PROVES that the voilence that was bestowed upon Jesus

The shroud is the Christian equivalent of a tin-foil hat.

[VOA]

bump

[hosepipe]

The Shroud of Turin is real ONLY if Jesus is NOT the Christ(messiah), IMO

Cause I believe (a real)God is not so lame and incompetent as to allow an article such as this to remain to muddy up the statement he made by his death which takes the onus OFF the statement he made and puts it on minutia...

Anyone that believes wouldn't need it and whoever needs it to believe DON'T. Course an idolater would receive much benefit from it as would a Judas who promply committed sucide after viewing obvious evidence of what faith requires.. Wheres the suicides ?.. The shroud violates the message.. and is only needed by salvation tourists on a discounted excursion.

ONE SACRIFICE, ONCE FOR ALL... tickets punched by faith.

[Bigg Red]

Thank you for posting this. I have not seen the movie yet, but your testament brought me to tears.

[netmilsmom]

As I remember, the Vatican gave permission for a small part of the Shroud to be examined. There was a mix of secular and religious scientists. In the end, it was agreed that the proof was more towards real than not.

But push come to shove, they could have found a hair and cloned Jesus. The mainstream press would have never reported it. It is only through fine work like yours that we know anything about it. I looked into it a while ago and I was convinced it was real.

[Ann Archy]

Thanks for your post.

[Aquinasfan]

I've looked at the Shroud almost a hundred times, but never saw the scourge marks (!). It might be because I wasn't expecting to see them on the FRONT of His body. But there they are. After seeing the movie, I went to look at The Shroud of Turin and my jaw dropped. It's all right there.

[tvn]

There is an independent proof to authenticate the Shroud of Turin. The Sudarium of Oviedo, a smaller cloth napkin, was placed over the face and about the head of the same man whose blood stains are on the Shroud.

In the 1st Century, it was customary among Jews to cover the head or face of the dead out of respect while burial preparations were underway, particularly if there was damage or injury. In 1955, the Most Reverend Monsignor Guilio Ricci discovered similarities in the blood stain patterns on the Sudarium and the blood stains on the Shroud. This suggested that both cloths had been used at some time to cover the same injured head at closely the same times. Recent forensic pathology, blood chemistry analysis, and additional studies of congruent patterns in the stains support this supposition.

The Sudarium has a very different history than the Shroud. The Sudarium has been kept in the Cathedral at Oviedo, Spain since the middle of the eighth century. Historical documents in the late Roman period and the early middle ages are often sketchy and prone to chronological mistakes and those pertaining to the Sudarium are no exception. But from a multiplicity of sources we can extract core elements of historical certainty. We are reasonably sure that the Sudarium came to Oviedo from Jerusalem and that the Sudarium probably dates to the first century. Its journey to its present location began in 644 AD when Persians, under Chosroes II, invaded Jerusalem and the Sudarium was moved out of the city to safety.

We are uncertain of its route to Spain. It may have first been taken to Alexandria along with numerous other relics (real or otherwise) and from there, in succeeding years, along the coast of North Africa ahead of advancing armies. Or it may have been taken by a more direct sea route to Spain. We know that for about 75 years after it arrived in Spain it was kept in Toledo. Then in 718, to protect it from Moslem Arab armies, which had invaded Spain only seven years earlier, it was moved northward with fleeing Christians. Oviedo became the capital of a northern enclave of the Spanish peninsula -- what remained of Christian Spain -- in about 761 AD. It was in Oviedo, that the Sudarium was stored for safe keeping. It has been there since.

A 1999 report, "Recent Historical Investigations on the Sudarium of Oveido," published by Mark Guscin, a member of the multi-disciplined Investigation Team of the Centro Español de Sindonología and the British Society for the Turin Shroud, summarized the forensic findings to date. Here are some highlights of that report:

*"It seems to be a funeral cloth that was probably placed over the head of the corpse of an adult male of normal constitution. The man whose face the Sudarium covered had a beard, moustache and long hair, tied up at the nape of his neck into a ponytail."

*"The man was dead. The mechanism that formed the stains is incompatible with any kind of breathing movement."

*"the man was wounded before death with something that made his scalp bleed and produced wounds on his neck, shoulders and upper part of the back."

*"The man suffered a pulmonary oedema as a consequence of the terminal process. The main stains are one part blood and six parts fluid from the pulmonary oedema."

*"the only position compatible with the formation of the stains on the Oviedo cloth is both arms outstretched above the head and the feet in such a position as to make breathing very difficult, i.e. a position totally compatible with crucifixion. We can say that the man was wounded first (blood on the head, shoulders and back) and then 'crucified.'"

*"on reaching the destination, the body was placed face up and for unknown reasons, the cloth was taken off the head."


Dr. Alan Whanger, of Duke University, confirmed the similarities in the blood stain patterns between the Sudarium and the Shroud using the Polarized Image Overlay Technique. Dr. Whanger found over seventy congruent blood stain patterns on the face and over fifty on the back of the head and neck. This was independently confirmed by Thomas Vuke using computerized methods for assessing congruence of the blood stains.

Significantly, Swiss criminologist Dr. Max Frei, who identified 58 pollens on the Shroud, also found pollens on the Sudarium that matched pollens on the Shroud thus linking both cloths to the Jerusalem environs.

In the summer of 1999, Israeli scientist Dr. Avinoam Danin, Professor of Botany at The Hebrew University in Jerusalem, told the International Botanical Congress in St Louis, Missouri, that:

There is no way that similar patterns of blood stains, probably of the identical blood type, with the same type of pollen grains, could not be synchronic - covering the same body...The pollen association and the similarities in the blood stains in the two cloths provide clear evidence that the shroud originated before the 8th Century.

Dr Danin has confirmed much of the work by Dr. Max Frei. He feels that certain pollens grains could only have come from an area in the vicinity of Jerusalem.

Other tests support the proposition that the Sudarium and the Shroud were both covering the same body at nearly the same time. Dr. Franca Pastore Trossello a forensic scientist at the University of Turin found that the fabric of the Shroud and the Sudarium are of a similar weave and texture suggesting a common origin. Nello Balossino, also from the University of Turin found that the traces of blood on both cloths match perfectly.

In summarizing the evidence, Guscin wrote:

There are many points of coincidence between all these points and the Shroud of Turin - the blood group, the way the corpse was tortured and died, and the macroscopic overlay of the stains on each cloth. This is especially notable in that the blood on the Sudarium shed in life, as opposed to post mortem, corresponds exactly in blood group, blood type and surface area to those stains on the Shroud on the nape of the neck. If it is clear that the two cloths must have covered the same corpse, and this conclusion is inevitable from all the studies carried out up to date, and if the history of the Sudarium can be trustworthily extended back beyond the fourteenth century, which is often referred to as the Shroud's first documented historical appearance, then this would take the Shroud back to at least the earliest dates of the Sudarium's known history. The ark of relics and the Sudarium have without any doubt at all been in Spain since the beginning of the seventh century, and the history recorded in various manuscripts from various times and geographical areas take it all the way back to Jerusalem in the first century. The importance of this for Shroud history cannot be overstressed.

Source: http://www.shroudstory.com/sudarium.htm

[el_chupacabra]

I saw Dr. Rabil's presentation on the Shroud about 11 years ago. It was extremely convincing and educational. I thought of it often while preparing myself to see the Passion.

If you ever are presented the opportunity to see his slide show (maybe he does powerpoint now?) please do so.

[Swordmaker]

Shroud PING

As always, if you want to be included on the Shroud list or removed, freepmail me.

[william clark]

I'm open-minded on the subject, but have always believed the shroud to be a fake, because the image does NOT depict what I understand to be the configuration of a body when prepped for burial according to Jewish custom at the time; principally the absence of a head wrap.

The main issue for me is that I don't need the shroud to be legit to validate my faith, yet it seems that many place that much emphasis upon it.

[nmh]

I personally don't believe the Shroud of Turin is what was used on Christ. It may very well have been used on someone but it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine that it was Jesus. Also I have my reservations on how legitimate the Shroud of Turin is. It's still VERY controversial.

In any event, relics are not what we are to be venerating. That is another form of idolatry.

[ambrose]

bump.

[Aquinasfan]

Here is information regarding the 3D information encoded in the Shroud of Turin. Click here to see images.

VP-8 Image Analyzer and the Shroud of Turin

Designed in the 1960's for creating relief maps from moon photographs and for other topographical imaging purposes, the VP-8 Image Analyzer is an analog device that converts image density (lights and darks) into vertical relief (shadows and highlights). When applied to photographs made specifically for this type of analysis, the result is an accurate, topographic image showing the correct, natural relief characteristics of the subject. These results are often referred to as "three-dimensional."

In 1976, a group of scientists working on various projects at Los Alamos National Laboratories put a 1931 Enrie photograph of the Shroud of Turin into the VP-8 and discovered that these same three-dimensional properties exist in the Shroud image. This particularly intrigued two of the researchers present at the test, Dr. Eric Jumper and Dr. John Jackson. Stimulated by their startling discovery, they decided to form a research team to investigate what might have formed the image on the cloth and within a few months, the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) was born. Two years later, that same team would perform the first ever, in-depth scientific examination of the Shroud of Turin.

When input to a VP-8, a normal photograph does not result in a properly formed dimensional image but in a rather distorted jumble of light and dark "shapes." That is because the lights and darks of a normal photograph result solely from the amount of light reflected by the subject onto the film. The image densities do not depend on the distance the subject was from the film. Yet the image on the Shroud of Turin yields a very accurate dimensional relief of a human form. One must conclude from this that the image density on the cloth is directly proportionate to the distance it was from the body it covered. In essence, the closer the cloth was to the body (tip of nose, cheekbone, etc.), the darker the image, and the further away (eye sockets, neck, etc.), the fainter the image. This spatial data encoded into the image actually eliminates photography and painting as the possible mechanism for its creation and allows us to conclude that the image was formed while the cloth was draped over an actual human body. So the VP-8 Image Analyzer not only revealed a previously unknown and very important characteristic of the Shroud image, but historically it also provided the actual motivation to form the team that would ultimately go and investigate it. Interestingly, only sixty VP-8 Image Analyzers were ever constructed and only two remain functional today.

On May 1, 1997, I was fortunate to spend some time in North Carolina with my friend Kevin Moran, retired Senior Technology Specialist from Eastman Kodak's Estek Products Division and a Shroud researcher since 1978. Kevin owns one of the two functioning original VP-8 units and was kind enough to welcome me into his home and spend the next 14 straight hours working with me to videotape "new" VP-8 images. Actually, the real thanks should go to his dear wife Anne, who put up with the two of us working until 4:00am!

To maximize the quality of the somewhat dated and temperamental imaging system, I replaced the existing camera and lens with a new high resolution CCD camera and lens and used first generation black & white prints made directly from my original 4x5" negatives as source images. I recorded the results off the VP-8's green screen monitor using a Sony BetaCam SP system. The image at the top of this page is a frame taken from the videotape we made during that "all-nighter".

The Animated Gif file below shows only a brief sample of the VP-8 "Gain" control being applied to the Shroud facial area. It may take a minute or so after the page has finished loading for the animation to begin. If you have any difficulty getting the animation to start, try going to a different page of the website and then returning to the "VP-8" page using your browser's "back" button. If you still have difficulty, try reloading the page. Once you have it stored in the cache on your hard disk, the next time you load the page the animation will run immediately.