"The Passion" too violent? The "Shroud of Turin" shows it happened!

The Diocese of Charleston ^ | March 21, 2002 | Dr. William E. Rabil

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Shroud of Turin history presented in Upstate
Retired surgeon relays his nearly 40 years of research on the Shroud of Turin

By SHEILA OJENDYK

GREENVILLE — Dr. William E. Rabil has no doubt that the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Rabil, a retired general surgeon from Winston-Salem, N.C., began studying the shroud in the late 1950s and has been lecturing about it for nearly 40 years. He made two slide presentations to parishioners at St. Mary Church on March 6.

Rabil began with a brief history of the shroud. After the crucifixion, the shroud was originally hidden in Jerusalem and was thought to have been moved to Edessa (Urfa, Turkey) after Jerusalem fell to the Romans in A.D. 70. In 944, the Byzantine Imperial Army invaded Edessa to recover the shroud and brought it to Constantinople (now Istanbul). Raiders from the Fourth Crusade invaded Istanbul in 1294 and took the shroud to Europe. It is believed to have been hidden by the Knights Templar until Geoffrey DeCharney exhibited it in Liren, France, in 1353. From that point forward, its history is fully documented. The shroud was moved to Turin, Italy, in 1578 and has remained there ever since. It is kept in a silver reliquary behind bullet-proof glass inside the Chapel of the Shroud.

The shroud was first photographed in 1898 by Italian photographer Secondo Pia. His first shot was a misfire, but his second shot caused him to fall to his knees. On the negative was the "positive image of Jesus Christ." The markings on the shroud are negative images, and it took the photographic reversal of light and dark to reveal the positive image of a man's body.

While the evidence cannot prove conclusively that the image on the shroud is Jesus, it is definitely the image of man between 5 feet 11 inches and 6 feet tall who weighed approximately 175 pounds. Forensic medical investigation confirms that the man died from crucifixion.

The body in the shroud was unclothed. All four books of the Gospel tell of Roman soldiers casting lots for Jesus' garments.

The shroud was not wrapped around the body, as one might expect. The body was placed on top of the shroud with the feet at one end. The other end of the shroud was brought over the head and spread on top of the body, ending at the feet.

Jesus' torture and crucifixion were much bloodier than most paintings have ever depicted. The back of the body in the shroud shows multiple scourge marks from the nape of the neck to the feet. The Romans used a flagrum for scourging. A flagrum was a whip with bone or metal-tipped leather thongs that was specifically designed to tear flesh. One-hundred twenty scourge marks were counted on the body.

Blood had not been washed from the body in the shroud. The Sabbath was fast approaching when Jesus was taken down from the cross, and he had to be buried before sundown. The doctor emphasized that Jesus' body would have gone into rigor mortis almost immediately after death because of the trauma of crucifixion, which would have made washing very difficult. Jewish burial practices also precluded washing blood that was flowing at the time of death.

The face shows bruising on the nose; Jesus was struck on the nose by a high priest. The body had a mustache and beard, and there is evidence that facial hair had been plucked.

There were no broken bones, but some bones were displaced. There is evidence of spike wounds to both wrists and the feet. Forensic investigators have proved that the spikes were not pounded into Jesus' palms because the weight of an adult would have torn completely through all tissues, and he would have fallen off the cross. The spikes were pounded into his wrists, and the bones separated. One foot was nailed over the other.

According to Dr. John Heller in his book, Report on the Shroud of Turin (Houghton Mifflin Co., 1983), "There is a swelling of both shoulders, with abrasions indicating something heavy and rough had been carried across the man's shoulders within hours of death."

There is no pigment on the linen cloth of the shroud. If paint had been used, the wound pattern would have become obliterated. The blood stains on the back of the skull demonstrate the unique cohesive properties of blood. No other substance behaves the same way. Scientific testing has confirmed that the stains are blood and body fluids.

The forensic examination shows that the crown of thorns was actually a cap over the entire scalp. A painting done from the shroud image shows a thorn above Jesus' right eye.

Some photos of the shroud show the image of coins placed over both eyes, a Jewish burial custom. The image exactly matches that of a coin minted during the reign of Pontius Pilate between A.D. 29 and 33.

Botanical experts have examined fragments of the shroud and found spores and seeds from 27 plants that are indigenous to Jerusalem. Geological analysis of particles showed limestone indigenous to caves surrounding Jerusalem and suggested that the shroud was placed in a damp tomb or cave.

Jesus died after about three hours on the cross, which was considered fast for a man of his age and physical condition. Medical experts theorize that he was severely weakened by the brutal scourging. Death by crucifixion is very painful. The muscles of the arms, chest, and legs quickly go into spasm, and the victim dies of asphyxiation.

The shroud has been studied and tested carefully by surgeons, forensic scientists, nuclear scientists, radiologists, Biblical scholars, botanists, and historians. Experts have disagreed with each other and challenged each other's theories and tests. Nobody will ever prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Shroud of Turin was the burial cloth of Jesus Christ — but nobody can prove it wasn't either.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

You were so BLESSED!! I can't imagine what it must have been like, to actually have SEEN the Shroud.

I don't think we will be so lucky due to the handling of the Shroud and all that has happened (though by good intentions) I think it will be guarded even more. We will only get to see the photo's. But even at that, looking at the photo's is so amazing.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

You also forget that the Shroud has been contamintad by others DNA for DECADES. Sorry.. but there is no way that the Shroud can be DNA matched.

Never.

Too many people have touched and handled the Shroud for hundreds of years.

[Swordmaker]

(The first picture shows them scraping away burns, when they should have cut them away and saved the clippings.

That's the first impression "bad news". The second impression information that makes it "not so bad" is that the scrapings (which is actually the correct way to remove the carbonized area with minimal damage to the unburnt area) WERE collected, bottled and labeled as to the specific areas they were taken from... somewhat limiting the scientific loss of not being able to examine the materials in situ.

The bare hands sewing is also not so bad of an error when one considers almost 2000 years of other hands, dirty, oily, grubby hands, handling the shroud. At least the seamstresses hands had been washed!

The bright lights ARE almost unforgivable since it was not for a scientific reason... But remember that the shroud in its history has been exposed for DAYS to bright sunlight, marched around a city under siege in dust and other pollutants, survived THREE major fires and been hung in buildings lit by candles, oil lamps and gas lights. I think a couple of weeks of electric light (very little UV) would not do too much damage. The darker appearance opinion is based on the before and after photographs... which used different light, different film, and different photographers and developing techniques. Colorimeter testing showed that there was no difference.

The politics of the restoration COULD and SHOULD have been better handled. The reason for removing the in situ charring was ridiculous... charring does not continue or spread after the fire is out!

All in all, what's done is done. We cannot put it back. Complaining to the Vatican cannot change that. Just urge them to include the Shroud Community in decision.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Good points. Thanks

I was quite disturbed to read the opinions of the scientists who had all come to the opinion that the Shroud had survived what, 400 years after the fires without deterioration? So what was the "hurry" to restore? I felt (feel) they were absolutely correct. Also, UV light is known to be harsh on a multitude of fabrics. We know that it will fade even leather if it remains in it for long periods of time. So we have to hope that better care will be taken of such a "historically" precious garment. There is "none other" so precious!

So how do we go about urging the Vatican to include the Shroud Community in future decisions? Would such a large political conglomorate even listen to us?

I must say, I'm truly worried even after your assurances. I feel that the Shroud really belongs to all Christians. But physical ownership is the law. Ethics and morality doesn't play into this even though this is about Jesus, the HEAD of Christianity, I'm afraid. Because, as you and I both know it is "political" even though it is "religous". Sadly.. this is true, but how I wish it wasn't.

I realize that only ONE group can and should care for the Shroud, and feel that the Catholic Church should continue to be it's gaurdian. But boy, I'd sure like for them to be more inclusive with the scientific community when it comes to decisions like this!!

I'm sure you just read what I posted, right?

Your knowledge seems extremely extensive.

BTW, thanks for everything. Well done.

FRegards and God Bless!

[RightOnline]

Thanks for the kind words. As I mentioned, Dr. D'Muhala (who headed up the STURP team) will be presenting on the Shroud yet again at Covenant Church of Raleigh (Raleigh, NC) on March 28th. This time it is to be professionally recorded. We plan to attend and I'll try to put up a thread afterward, including any details on how copies of the presentation can be purchased. If past is prologue, Dr. D'Muhala should prove to be fascinating.

[windchime]

Bump!

[dangus]

Well, that was some silly speculation that I was reporting about: that the offspring of a virginal birth would have one X chromosome and no Y chromosome.

A "Y" chromosome is an incomplete "X" chromosome. Maleness comes from having insufficient genetic material to become female. A human born with only one chromosome would therefore appear male.

[dangus]

No, blood typing (phenotyping, anyway) is pretty easy. If they say that it and the Sudarium (sp?) are AB, I'll believe them for now.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

I would LOVE to purchase a copy of the presentation. So PLEASE ping us!!

Thanks and God Bless!

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Who says it? Boy, I've read so much my mind is swirling. Thanks for any link you can (easily) point me to. I'll put it in the file I've started. MUCH appreciated in advance I thank you!!

Warm FRegards!

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

PS. But I must add, I also think all things are possible when it comes to Jesus. So I'm not sure it would be "impossible" for Him to have any blood type He wanted. After all, He is God!

[DaiHuy]

It would be interesting to see what Christs' DNA showed.

[johnb838]

It's not fake. Bump to read later. I know it's not fake because most of the representations of Jesus match the negative image on that shroud from centuries before it was ever seen. That's supernatural.

[Doctor Stochastic]

People with a single X and no Y chromosome are females with Turner's Syndrome.

[dangus]

Ummm... yeah, that's right... I'm going from 10-year old recollections in biology class... Umm, I think Turner's Syndrome is an otherwise complete set of chromosomes, though... I think this was about having only one of any chromosome... (Hence, the infertility.) But now I'm not sure about my reasons for the appearance...

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

You're right and the Gospels had already told of what was later shown when the negatives were developed.

The first time I watched a documetary on the Shroud.. I got chills. I cried. I've looked at the image and read the science. There will always be non-believers. Just as there have been hateful people who didn't want this movie to be made or seen.

I think what has made me so proud, is that so many Christians have come together and watched this movie. We've stood in line and talked about what different Churches we are from, and spoke of Jesus dying for us, for our sins and how horrifically He suffered for us. About all the hype of how violent the movie was..and how we KNEW the movie would be violent because He was tortured and died violently.

But all the critics were missing the most poignant part of the movie.. HE FORGAVE HIS TORMENTORS EVEN WHILE HE WAS SUFFERING HORRIBLY and DYING!

How anyone of any faith could walk into this movie and NOT walk away with that knowledge.. is beyond so many of us.

How THEY could THINK any of US could HATE after seeing JESUS LOVE AND FORGIVE.. is beyond ignorant and really is the epitomy of HATE.

So the real HATE is coming from them. But WE FORGIVE THEM!

:o)

Yes, the Shroud is real. I believe that with all my heart.

And it proves that Jesus DID INDEED ENDURE all that we saw in the movie.

The only deviation we could see was in the positioning of the nails. (On the Shroud it was in the wrists) Perhaps that was done because of the special effects that Mr. Gibson needed to do. We watched a special on how they did that. And they actually placed an actors hand underneath the log of the cross. With a prosthetic hand above it, in order to be able to make it move and to put in the nail, and to have blood). But otherwise.. it followed the Gospels to perfection.

So, job well done. And we've seen it twice,..and will most definitely see it a third time before it leaves the big screen.

We were shocked at how differently we viewed the movie the second time. Perhaps it was because the "visual effects" were already over for us (well, you never really get over it.. but you understand).It was even deeper and more spiritual for us. But it was definitely different for us, and we were deeply moved.

We had reviewed the Shroud of Turin information, and that reconfirmed information for us too.

We are extremely grateful that Mr. Gibson made this movie. As are a lot of other Christians. In light of all the evil going on in this world.. it is truly a BLESSING!

[theDentist]

I fully agree.

[johnb838]

You mention the mechanics of the crucifixion. Mel said he studied and asjed the experts and the results were inconclusive so he decided for himself. Rope AND nails. Makes perfect sense. Rope alone and the arm could slip out. Nails alone and the body could tear free.But that REALLY doesn't matter.

A strange thing happened this morning. I went and visited an Anglican Use Roman Catholic Church that I'd heard about and wanted to check out. I just needed a change of pace. The church is called Our Lady of Walsingham, and they have a Shrine to the Virgin and with a Madonna statue and a Crucifix. I was sitting there meditating on the crucifix, and I opened my eyes and everything suddenly seemed to be too bright. Then a very large bird came flying around the side of the shrine, circled around behind me and landed in a tree. It was about 20 feet from me. I figured out later it was a red-tailed hawk. Now, I have never seen a red-tailed hawk before, from any distance, much less flying within 20 feet of me, while I happen to be meditating on a crucifix at a Shrine to the Virgin Mary. And just happened to open my eyes at the right time to catch it. I think the Lord was trying to tell me something. I feel renewed and re-energized, and ready to go forth in the Name of Christ.

I think the reason the shroud is important to me is that the Gospels tell us that Jesus was RESURRECTED, in a spiritual body, but a real, physical body nonetheless. That being the case, a physical transformation had to take place. And for there to be evidence of that left, His precious image left for us to adore.... It Is A Thing Most Wonderful, indeed.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

I just saw this post. Sorry I'm so late. I sent you a private freepmail. And here is a link I think you'll find interesting. It shows the Sudarium. The first link explains it really well.

The second link will actually show it "even better" with pictures and finger prints which are probably those of The Virgin Mary or John as they held it on our precious Lord's face. No one can know for sure. But it is amazing to look upon it an ponder it's history. The Sudarium actually validates the Shroud, as you will see from the first link.

http://www.shroudstory.com/sudarium.htm

http://www.shroud.com/guscin.htm