"The Passion" too violent? The "Shroud of Turin" shows it happened!

The Diocese of Charleston ^ | March 21, 2002 | Dr. William E. Rabil

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Shroud of Turin history presented in Upstate
Retired surgeon relays his nearly 40 years of research on the Shroud of Turin

By SHEILA OJENDYK

GREENVILLE — Dr. William E. Rabil has no doubt that the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Rabil, a retired general surgeon from Winston-Salem, N.C., began studying the shroud in the late 1950s and has been lecturing about it for nearly 40 years. He made two slide presentations to parishioners at St. Mary Church on March 6.

Rabil began with a brief history of the shroud. After the crucifixion, the shroud was originally hidden in Jerusalem and was thought to have been moved to Edessa (Urfa, Turkey) after Jerusalem fell to the Romans in A.D. 70. In 944, the Byzantine Imperial Army invaded Edessa to recover the shroud and brought it to Constantinople (now Istanbul). Raiders from the Fourth Crusade invaded Istanbul in 1294 and took the shroud to Europe. It is believed to have been hidden by the Knights Templar until Geoffrey DeCharney exhibited it in Liren, France, in 1353. From that point forward, its history is fully documented. The shroud was moved to Turin, Italy, in 1578 and has remained there ever since. It is kept in a silver reliquary behind bullet-proof glass inside the Chapel of the Shroud.

The shroud was first photographed in 1898 by Italian photographer Secondo Pia. His first shot was a misfire, but his second shot caused him to fall to his knees. On the negative was the "positive image of Jesus Christ." The markings on the shroud are negative images, and it took the photographic reversal of light and dark to reveal the positive image of a man's body.

While the evidence cannot prove conclusively that the image on the shroud is Jesus, it is definitely the image of man between 5 feet 11 inches and 6 feet tall who weighed approximately 175 pounds. Forensic medical investigation confirms that the man died from crucifixion.

The body in the shroud was unclothed. All four books of the Gospel tell of Roman soldiers casting lots for Jesus' garments.

The shroud was not wrapped around the body, as one might expect. The body was placed on top of the shroud with the feet at one end. The other end of the shroud was brought over the head and spread on top of the body, ending at the feet.

Jesus' torture and crucifixion were much bloodier than most paintings have ever depicted. The back of the body in the shroud shows multiple scourge marks from the nape of the neck to the feet. The Romans used a flagrum for scourging. A flagrum was a whip with bone or metal-tipped leather thongs that was specifically designed to tear flesh. One-hundred twenty scourge marks were counted on the body.

Blood had not been washed from the body in the shroud. The Sabbath was fast approaching when Jesus was taken down from the cross, and he had to be buried before sundown. The doctor emphasized that Jesus' body would have gone into rigor mortis almost immediately after death because of the trauma of crucifixion, which would have made washing very difficult. Jewish burial practices also precluded washing blood that was flowing at the time of death.

The face shows bruising on the nose; Jesus was struck on the nose by a high priest. The body had a mustache and beard, and there is evidence that facial hair had been plucked.

There were no broken bones, but some bones were displaced. There is evidence of spike wounds to both wrists and the feet. Forensic investigators have proved that the spikes were not pounded into Jesus' palms because the weight of an adult would have torn completely through all tissues, and he would have fallen off the cross. The spikes were pounded into his wrists, and the bones separated. One foot was nailed over the other.

According to Dr. John Heller in his book, Report on the Shroud of Turin (Houghton Mifflin Co., 1983), "There is a swelling of both shoulders, with abrasions indicating something heavy and rough had been carried across the man's shoulders within hours of death."

There is no pigment on the linen cloth of the shroud. If paint had been used, the wound pattern would have become obliterated. The blood stains on the back of the skull demonstrate the unique cohesive properties of blood. No other substance behaves the same way. Scientific testing has confirmed that the stains are blood and body fluids.

The forensic examination shows that the crown of thorns was actually a cap over the entire scalp. A painting done from the shroud image shows a thorn above Jesus' right eye.

Some photos of the shroud show the image of coins placed over both eyes, a Jewish burial custom. The image exactly matches that of a coin minted during the reign of Pontius Pilate between A.D. 29 and 33.

Botanical experts have examined fragments of the shroud and found spores and seeds from 27 plants that are indigenous to Jerusalem. Geological analysis of particles showed limestone indigenous to caves surrounding Jerusalem and suggested that the shroud was placed in a damp tomb or cave.

Jesus died after about three hours on the cross, which was considered fast for a man of his age and physical condition. Medical experts theorize that he was severely weakened by the brutal scourging. Death by crucifixion is very painful. The muscles of the arms, chest, and legs quickly go into spasm, and the victim dies of asphyxiation.

The shroud has been studied and tested carefully by surgeons, forensic scientists, nuclear scientists, radiologists, Biblical scholars, botanists, and historians. Experts have disagreed with each other and challenged each other's theories and tests. Nobody will ever prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Shroud of Turin was the burial cloth of Jesus Christ — but nobody can prove it wasn't either.

[Swordmaker]

The "Carbon dating" showed the 1350 due it (The Shroud) being in a fire.

While some carbon from exterior sources may have contaminated the cloth, it could not have been in sufficient amounts to skew the carbon dating.

The reason the carbon dating is off is that the sample itself was composed of between 45- 60%15-16th century linen from a repair that is obvious in micrographs of the area sampled. The percentage of original thread to replaced thread depended on which piece of the sample each lab got as the boundary between original to replaced thread ran diagonally through the original clipped sample!

In fact the sample ages reported by the three labs shows this change in percentage as the labs reported ages that were wildly variant between the labs with the oldest age (plus margin of error) being outside of the youngest age and ITS margin of error. The sample testing at the youngest age had the largest percentage of newer material while the oldest had the lowest percentage of newer material.

[Swordmaker]

By the way: Has anyone ever taken a DNA sample from the Shroud? DNA does give a lot of info about the person's heritage, true?

Yes.

[jwalsh07]

The Shroud of Turin, Blood or Paint? Peer reviewed stuff for the scientists among us.

[hosepipe]

[ Man your whole post is confusing!! Of course His resurrection was "special." From what I've seen, heard and read, the Shroud is like a snapshot negative taken AT the moment of the Resurrection, like an X-ray. The imprint is caused by radiation ]

If we are made in the image of God ....
Are we snapshot negatives of him ?..
And does displaying/teaching the gospel by us to others produce positive copies until the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of the copies converts them into negatives too ?..

Thereby making shroud an archetype of that process.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Whoa!!! I guess that means all those miracles that Jesus performed were bogus too. I mean why would He need to do those?

I think I'll believe in those, K?

[Swordmaker]

But the older elements of the pieces tested would have revealed an earlier date.

Unfortunately, Dentist, the carbon14 tests, which were done by three seperate labs, were done on four pieces taken from the single sample taken from only ONE area of the shroud... one which the creators of the protocol specifically excluded... instead of the SEVEN areas the original protocol required.

The Arizona lab got TWO pieces, the other labs got one each. Strangely the piece that tested youngest and the piece that tested oldest BOTH were sent to Arizona... and the results for one were outside the extreme limits of the other. This would not be the case if the materials were the same age... or composed of the same ratios of replaced material to original material.

Since we can look at magnifications of photographs of the original sample (destroyed in the C14 testing) and estimate the percentage of "invisibly rewoven linen" from the obvious change of thread twist, we can make a stab at calculating the age of the original material. That calculation comes out to 1st century plus or minus 100 years (large margin of error because of the estimation of percentage). The ideal solution is to repeat the C14 tests using material that is certain to be original shroud and not a repair. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church has not authorized another test.

I have heard that an unauthorized C-14 test on a thread taken from Max Frei's sticky tape samples WAS done and the results pointed to a date in the First Century. Because it was not authorized, it cannot be published or peer reviewed so the results are not to be considered "valid."

[Future Snake Eater]

From what I've seen, heard and read, the Shroud is like a snapshot negative taken AT the moment of the Resurrection, like an X-ray. The imprint is caused by radiation.

Correct. The image was absolutely NOT painted on. That has been completely discredited. The image has been shown to experienced radiologists who almost immediately recognized it as an x-ray image seemingly produced by an instantaneous, intense burst of radiation.

Even if it's fake, the person who created it was an artistic genius who knew everything there was to know about a crucifixion.

Not only that, but this increasingly-unlikely "artist" also knew a whole lot about ancient Jewish burial customs (re: Jesus' eyes on the Shroud).

Many people with IQs a whole lot higher than mine have studied this artifact VERY closely and are all but ready to declare without a doubt, publically, that the Shroud of Turin is the genuine article.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

We just got back from our SECOND viewing of this film. What surprized us was we had a totally different reaction to it than the first time. We LOVED it both times. It is a POWERFUL movie. (Do NOT be afraid to see this movie!!)

But this time we weren't having as much "visual" stimuli.. and we were surprized to be having "even more" spiritual feelings too.

I would highly recommend people see this movie more than once.

[william clark]

I'm open-minded on the subject, but have always believed the shroud to be a fake, because the image does NOT depict what I understand to be the configuration of a body when prepped for burial according to Jewish custom at the time; principally the absence of a head wrap.

The main issue for me is that I don't need the shroud to be legit to validate my faith, yet it seems that many place that much emphasis upon it.

[happydogdesign]

Not if you actually comprehend what was said

[Swordmaker]

Well, the blood is AB negative, the same as on the crown of thorns in Paris which was also "acquired" during the crusades.

It also matches the blood on the Soudarium of Oviedo... which has been in Oviedo, Spain, since the sixth century... and the wound patterns match as well.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Right! I remembered it and thought.. gosh, this would be interesting in light of this movie. So I did some research before our second viewing tonight. I was so glad I did. It made the movie even MORE powerful.

Gotta run.. we are exhausted. But full of the LOVE of Jesus!!

[hosepipe]

[ Many people with IQs a whole lot higher than mine have studied this artifact VERY closely and are all but ready to declare without a doubt, publically, that the Shroud of Turin is the genuine article. ]

Well there you go... LoL

[Agamemnon]

But while carbon dating isn't exact, it's pretty good at giving a rough date, within a couple hundred years.

Far too much reliance is placed on this flawed testing method. Carbon dating has even dated live mollusks at 3000 years dead too.

It has to be one of the worst tools available to scientists today to speculatively-date anything. The dating technique relies on the wholly undocumentable assumption that atmospheric and environmental conditions in which the tested object has existed have remained consistent since the death of the organism. Exposure to smoke is only one of the more obvious atmospheric changes to which the shroud has been exposed.

Likewise a baseline for the inherent radio-carbon which is supposed to be associated with the object is also only founded upon assumptions. It cannot be determined by anything approaching credible, hard radio-carbon baseline evidence.

[happydogdesign]

P.T. Barnum said there's a fool born every minute- I think the estimate was way too low. Contemporary Church authorities established that the shroud was one among many frauds, yet the naive, the fearful, and purposely ignorant still spend time and money on it and other trinkets, doodads and debris desperately looking for physical proof to bolster what must be a weak and shallow hope rather than abiding faith.

A single unselfish act of compassion is far better proof of one's faith and spirituality than a truckload of phony relics.

[Agamemnon]

The shroud is the Christian equivalent of a tin-foil hat.

You are perhaps a bit too new to FR to understand what is meant when one refers to a poster on FR as wearing a tin-foil hat.

[Ichneumon]

You are wrong...sorry....

Where, exactly, am I wrong, and what evidence can you provide that I am?

do some research...

I've done a great deal of research on this topic, thank you.

you will be SHOCKED...or is that what you are AFRAID of?????

I'm hardly "AFRAID", but I do admit to being "SHOCKED" by the way that some of the more prominent shroud proponents have misrepresented the results of the scientific tests in order to misleadingly make them appear more supportive of the shroud's allged "authenticity" than they really are.

[nmh]

I personally don't believe the Shroud of Turin is what was used on Christ. It may very well have been used on someone but it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine that it was Jesus. Also I have my reservations on how legitimate the Shroud of Turin is. It's still VERY controversial.

In any event, relics are not what we are to be venerating. That is another form of idolatry.

[RightOnline]

I say go read the link I posted above. Take the time.

[Jaded]

Whatever you have to tell yourself.