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Most Distant Galaxy in Universe Detected
Associated Press ^ | Mon Mar 1, 2004 | JOHN LEICESTER

Posted on 03/01/2004 8:41:55 PM PST by anymouse

French and Swiss astronomers say they have detected the farthest galaxy ever observed, a glimmer that dates back to when the universe was still in its infancy.

The galaxy, dubbed Abell 1835 IR1916, is 13.23 billion light-years from Earth — beating by a chunk another galaxy that until now was believed to be the farthest known object, said France's state-funded National Center for Scientific Research, a major European research organizations.

Because light from the new find took 13.23 billion years to reach us across the vastness of space, astronomers are seeing the galaxy as it was back then. The universe, believed to have started with the Big Bang some 13.7 billion years ago, would still have been in its infancy.

"It is as if we are seeing the childhood of the galaxy," Roser Pello, a member of the team that found it, told The Associated Press on Monday. "It's a galaxy that is starting to form."

The galaxy is in the Virgo constellation and, in space terms, is tiny. It is at least 10 times smaller than our own galaxy, the Milky Way, and has one ten-thousandth of its mass, said Daniel Schaerer of the Geneva Observatory, another member of the team.

He said the find lends weight to theories of how galaxies and stars first formed after the Big Bang, when space is thought to have exploded in a fraction of a second from a speck to an immensity bathed in heat and radiation. It took an estimated 300 million years for the universe to cool and for the stars to form from hydrogen and helium.

Theory holds "that at the start of the universe, galaxies were small, like a kind of basic building block," Schaerer said in a telephone interview.

"Afterward they started to fuse together," he added. "The universe was still quite compact and there were frequent meetings between different galaxies; the biggest swallowed the smaller ones and grew into big galaxies like our own."

Previously, the farthest-known galaxy, whose discovery was announced in mid-February, was roughly 13 billion light-years from Earth. That means light observed from there was emitted about 750 million years after the Big Bang, compared to a mere 470 million years for the new discovery.

To better understand that concept, try imagining the age of the universe in human terms. If the universe is a person aged 75, then the newly found galaxy dates back to when the universe was just "a baby aged two-and-a-half," the French national research center said in a statement.

Richard Ellis, a California Institute of Technology astronomer involved in the previous galaxy discovery, called the new find "potentially very exciting" but said he did not find the European researchers' evidence as convincing as his team's findings, which were made using the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope (news - web sites).

"If they are right, they found the earliest object," Ellis said. But he added that the European research was "not as secure as the measurements made with the Hubble."

"They don't have that clinching image," he said.

The new discovery was made using the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope, in Chile, with other images also coming from the Hubble Space Telescope and Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope on Mauna Kea, a dormant Hawaiian volcano, the center said.

Nature also played a magnifying role. The newly found galaxy lies behind a cluster of galaxies, named Abell 1835, whose gravitational forces helped to deflect the distant galaxy's light toward Earth and amplify it by at least 25 times.

The magnification process, first predicted by Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity, is known as "gravitational lensing."

"There is so much mass, galaxies, gases and dark matter gathered together in this cluster of galaxies that it deflects the light, acting as a lens," said Schaerer.

___

On the Web:

The European Southern Observatory:

http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2004/pr-04-04.html

Schaerer's page: http://obswww.unige.ch/sfr


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: astronomy; bigbang; europe; france; galaxy; goliath; milkyway; space; switzerland
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To: John H K
Thanks! Didn't know that (about the book)...
21 posted on 03/01/2004 9:47:07 PM PST by Michael Barnes
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To: unix
I looked at The Elegant Universe and read the article about T.O.E. and have a basic question. In their example about the apple being reduced down to it's smallest component, the string, could the string somehow be altered to another vibration frequency and the apple thus be changed into an orange?
22 posted on 03/01/2004 9:47:51 PM PST by Licensed-To-Carry (John 14:6 - 14:9)
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To: rightwingcrazy
So do the galaxies expand faster than the speed of light? If we all started out at the same place (the big bang), then would these young galaxies being on the other side of the balloon expand faster than the speed of light, for instance, we are going one direction at light speed and they are going the other direction at light speed, is this twice light speed?
23 posted on 03/01/2004 9:58:17 PM PST by Licensed-To-Carry (John 14:6 - 14:9)
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To: Licensed-To-Carry
re #22

Sorry LTC, (hmm..License to carry; Lieutenant Col.? inquiring minds and all *cough*)...at any rate, I don't pretend to know this "stuff"..Only got turned on to it a couple years back. Figure in 20 years or so, my understanding will be enough as to make heads or tails of the math, let alone the philosohpy behind it.

I'm just glad the science grabbed me as it did...I love this reading and love the learning.

24 posted on 03/01/2004 10:05:20 PM PST by Michael Barnes
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To: unix
Well thanks for your response. I have never been one for math, but the philosohpy of these theories really is interesting, to say the least. Enjoyed the chat, good night.
25 posted on 03/01/2004 10:10:41 PM PST by Licensed-To-Carry (John 14:6 - 14:9)
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To: Licensed-To-Carry
"So do the galaxies expand faster than the speed of light? If we all started out at the same place (the big bang), then would these young galaxies being on the other side of the balloon expand faster than the speed of light, for instance, we are going one direction at light speed and they are going the other direction at light speed, is this twice light speed?"

No, Einstein showed us that nothing can appear to travel faster than the speed of light from us. So if there's this galaxy (A) where they see us travelling away at 1/2 the speed of light, and they also see another galaxy (galaxy B) travelling in the opposite direction at 1/2 the speed of light, *we* would still see galaxy B travelling from *us* at something *less* than the speed of light. Not 1/2+1/2=1 times the speed of light. This is a concept that puts most people's minds in a twist.

If we tried really hard, we'd just determine that galaxy A's clocks weren't running right, and so they weren't measuring the speeds right. But the folks in galaxy A would say the same thing about us. All relative, you see.
26 posted on 03/01/2004 10:11:26 PM PST by rightwingcrazy
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To: anymouse
Is it farther away than Dennis Kucinich's chance to win the nomination?
27 posted on 03/01/2004 10:13:07 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Unless the world is made safe for Democracy, Democracy won't be safe in the world.)
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To: rightwingcrazy
Well I understand about the clocks running slower the faster you go but I still don't quite get the concept of being able to see something as it was 13 billion years ago when it started the same time we did. So does galaxy (A) see us as only 2 billion years old and think of themselves as 16 billion years old?
28 posted on 03/01/2004 10:19:07 PM PST by Licensed-To-Carry (John 14:6 - 14:9)
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To: Licensed-To-Carry
Frustratingly, when that galaxy "saw" or "sees" our 2-billion year old galaxy, I believe that it would also consider itself 13-billion years old.

I don't think you need to picture relativity or even an expanding universe to feel comfortable with this. Picture some ancient Roman dropping a bottled message into the ocean, sending it on a westerly ocean current, and some Mayan (or whatever) simultaneously sending one east. If the bottles moved very slowly (OK, a very slow ocean current), it would be the ancestors of each that got the bottles. One would get a message from a young Italy, and the other would get a message from a young America. And yet, they could both look at the calendar, and see the same date.
29 posted on 03/01/2004 10:41:28 PM PST by rightwingcrazy
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To: anymouse
"If they are right, they found the earliest object," Ellis said.

OK this "IF" brings on my comment....

So someone spots this galaxy and because they think the "Big Bang" happened around the same time, they think they have seen the farthest place away from us.

So what happens down the road when someone spots another galaxy beyond that? How do they date that galaxy if it's beyond the "Big Bang" time estimation?

Why not start the story out with, This is all just guess-work folks, but it's our best guess? Just my little comment/question.

30 posted on 03/01/2004 10:58:15 PM PST by Tactical
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To: anymouse

FWIW, this classic Czech science fiction film is playing at the Museum of Modern Art later this month.

31 posted on 03/01/2004 11:11:35 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: Tactical
So what happens down the road when someone spots another galaxy beyond that?

Perhaps it's better to ask IF rather than WHEN. The way you ask seems to assume astronomers will discover the universe is much older than current estimates.

32 posted on 03/01/2004 11:52:09 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Perhaps it's better to ask IF rather than WHEN. The way you ask seems to assume astronomers will discover the universe is much older than current estimates.

Well sure "IF" would be appropriate, but the possibility of "WHEN" exists too. Who knows what technology will be developed down the road? That's what makes it all fun and interesting.

33 posted on 03/02/2004 5:32:47 AM PST by Tactical
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To: RadioAstronomer
Hi, RA!
34 posted on 03/02/2004 6:18:19 AM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
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To: Tactical
Do you believe the universe has a specific age- or is more a variable quantity?

This is more what I was commenting upon. If the universe has a specific age then this comes with certain implications, one of them being that you won't be finding galaxies or other objects that are older than that age.

35 posted on 03/02/2004 3:24:19 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: PatrickHenry
Hi Patrick. :-)
36 posted on 03/04/2004 6:53:28 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: anymouse
The galaxy ...is at least 10 times smaller than our own galaxy, the Milky Way, ...

Are they sure? 'Cause you know sometimes things just look really really small when they are way far away. ;)

37 posted on 03/04/2004 7:14:49 AM PST by Dr._Joseph_Warren
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