Text of Senator Larry Craig's Ammo Amendment Director@KeepAndBearArms.com

keepandbeararms.com ^ | Feb 27, 2004 | Angel Shamaya

[Shooter 2.5]

This is the text of Senator Craig's testimony with Angel Shamaya's updated retraction. This should clear up many of the misconceptions of the amendment.

[Shooter 2.5]

The Gun Mfrs Liability Protection Act should pass as a clean Bill with the amendments removed. Please call your Senators with special attention to Majority Leader Frist.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[skip2myloo]

bump

[wysiwyg]

No sir, I don't like it at all. Substituting a "less restrictive" amendment for a more restrictive amendment is still a restriction.

[Shooter 2.5]

Forgot the asterisk.

[skip2myloo]

Agree, Kennedy's Ammo Ban Amendment is wrong and it should be defeated on it's own lack of merit.

Any attempt, especially by an NRA Director - and cosponsor of S. 1805 (Craig), to ameliorate it is a wrongheaded strategy in my viewpoint.

It would be far better to argue for its outright defeat than attempt to make it palatable in any form.

Not to mention, such action is contrary to the President's request (as well as NRA claimed strategy) that he be sent a "clean bill."

[Shooter 2.5]

That can go both ways. If the bill would pass, you would have the same exact people yelling they should have introduced less restrictions.

Pay close attention to this portion of the letter by Gary Marbut, president Montana Shooting Sports at the end of the article.

"If this is correct, and if the Craig/Frist amendment language relies upon this definition found elsewhere in the USC, then the Craig/Frist amendment net effect appears to be limited to shifting authority for this area of the law enforcement from Treasury to Justice, and to commissioning the Justice Department study about AP ammunition. Hard to find much bad in that."

That study would buy us the time to defeat the amendment and the anti's. Bear in mind, all of the gun groups are still working for a clean bill.

[El Laton Caliente]

You Said:

"That study would buy us the time to defeat the amendment and the anti's. Bear in mind, all of the gun groups are still working for a clean bill."

__________________________________________________________

The way I'm reading it though, if I had my CZ52 loaded with Russian mil-surp (steel core) and even used it in self defense, I would be guilty of a crime.

Point #2 is that armor piercing in military terms only applies to vehicle armor, not protective vests. The study is bad precedent in my book. It can only conclude that almost all rifle bullets will go through most LEO protective vests and help the anti's yell "cop killer".

I fear anything that leaves interpretation up to BATFE. A lot / most eastern block 7,62x39 ammo is steel core, they simply found it cheaper to make that way. Someone at BATFE figured out that there was a 7,62x39 silhouette/hunting pistol and outlawed all the steel core surplus.

[.38sw]

I fear anything that leaves interpretation up to BATFE.

As well you should. An agency promulgates regulations and bulletins and memos regarding how they will enforce a law, and those can change anytime the agency feels so inclined. No congressional oversight required.

[Shooter 2.5]

And without a two year study, any so-called "cop-killer" bullet gets banned immediately, including the 9mm that went through the officer's vest after the first half dozen or so were stopped. Read this testimony from Kennedy. Do you think he cares whether you have another use for your firearm?

" Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating."

So don't think your daddy's deer rifle or your 9mm is safe.

[bandleader]

Not only that but it PAVES the Way for future(and further)RESTRICTIONS!!!!!!!!!!

[skip2myloo]

Huh ??

May be my old reading comprehension problem again.

"...then the Craig/Frist amendment net effect appears to be limited to shifting authority for this area of the law enforcement from Treasury to Justice..."

Where has this guy been ??

Isn't he aware that authority HAS ALREADY BEEN SHIFTED from Treasury to Justice ??

As part of Homeland Security, BATF was renamed BATFE and transferred from Treasury to Justice, lock, stock and barrel (as we say in the shooting sports).

And what possible benefit would there be to a strategy of let's buy time to defeat something bad at some unknown future date' -- rather than defeat it soundly NOW, nip it in the bud ??

I don't understand why anyone would advocate any strategy that would give an ammo ban an opportunity to "take root" and grow.

'Let's let the liberals take Massachusetts, but we're gonna hold the line at New York, oops New York is already gone. But, we're definitely gonna hold the line on California, no retreat.

What ?? Whaddaya mean "left" coast ??'

[/sarcasm]

[PCRit]

I agree 100% with bandleader.

I don't trust Sen. Craig or the NRA any longer. That's why I dropped my membership to NRA years ago and now support GOA, RKBA, etc.

[ExSoldier]

"Point #2 is that armor piercing in military terms only applies to vehicle armor, not protective vests. The study is bad precedent in my book. It can only conclude that almost all rifle bullets will go through most LEO protective vests and help the anti's yell "cop killer."

The antis already claim that all semi autos belong to the military family and do not belong in "civilian" hands. Might this not seem to be supporting their false claims? Almost any full metal jacket rifle round will go straight through a LEO vest if propelled with sufficient force. This certainly applies to any hunting ammo designed to harvest big game, especially if the nose configuration is conical rather than flat or round. For that matter, a tanto point knife will slice through a vest if you miss the steel plate. The devil is in the details. I think we must have a "clean" bill.

[ExSoldier]

PCRit since FEB 26th 2004. Welcome to Free Republic.

"I don't trust Sen. Craig or the NRA any longer."

Be careful about seeming to play a role of disruptor by attacking a long standing force for good which has many supporters on FR. We've had a lot of "posers" from the "other side" jump on this forum and try to stir up dissension at critical moments in the past. I don't think you're a disruptor, because you go on to support the GOA etc, but just be careful. Ok?

[wysiwyg]

That's why I dropped my membership to NRA years ago and now support GOA, RKBA, etc.

As I'm a life member of NRA, I didn't drop my membership (like some former president/father of the president...) but I don't send 'em any more money, either. Every year I vote for the board, but I almost never vote for a politician, musician, actor, former pro basketball player, etc. I try to pick people that will really support the 2nd Amendment.

Oh, and I'm also a GOA life member and TSRA endowment member.

[Shooter 2.5]

Were you in Mesquite for the convention? Basil was there with the Second Amendment Sisters.

[El Gato]

Any attempt, especially by an NRA Director - and cosponsor of S. 1805 (Craig), to ameliorate it is a wrongheaded strategy in my viewpoint.

Agree wholeheartedly, but that's been the NRA's MO since at least 1934, when they managed to "compromise" on the National Firearms Act, which is as blatantly an infringement of the RKBA as virtually all other "gun control". They *supported* the near ban (at the time, inflation has made the $200 tax not so bad compared to the value of the guns) in exchange for removal of handguns from the same sort of restrictions that now cover machine guns, short barreled shotguns, etc. Then they didn't lift a finger to challenge it when the Supreme Court took up the is, not even a measly amicus brief, and thus only the government's side of the issue was ever addressed in the Court.

[Shooter 2.5]

What did your grandparents or parents do to stop the National Firearms Act?

[El Gato]

What did your grandparents or parents do to stop the National Firearms Act?

Considering that my maternal grandparents were more or less illiterate farmers, without radio, my maternal grandmother was a single mother (marrid but separated from grandpa who I never knew and who was at an unknown location (to his wife and children) at that time I doubt they even knew about it. The NRA knew, and compromised with the Roosevelt administration.

In any event, I have not continued the pattern of actions that my grandparents and parents followed in their lives (for example I'm the first in either line to graduate from college let alone hold a post bachelors degree (and of my four grandparents, only one graduated high school AFAIK). The NRA has, with a few exceptions, continued the pattern first established WRT the NFA. The pattern has undoubtably been well intentioned, but it's helped get us where we are today with respect to lack of adherance to the second amendment.

Now that would be no concern of mine, except as their slogan once went, I am the NRA, and I reserve the right to criticize my employees. And yes, I vote in their elections, for all the good that does.