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U.S. jobs lost to India's Generation Z
Seattle PI ^ | February 24, 2004 | THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Posted on 02/23/2004 7:56:36 PM PST by yonif

BANGALORE, India -- We grew up with the hippies in the 1960s. Thanks to the high-tech revolution, many of us became yuppies in the 1980s. And now, fasten your seat belt, because you may soon lose your job to a "zippie" in the 2000s.

"The Zippies Are Here," declared the Indian weekly magazine Outlook. Zippies are this huge cohort of Indian youth who are the first to come of age since India shifted away from socialism and dived headfirst into global trade, the information revolution and turning itself into the world's service center.

Outlook calls India's zippies "Liberalization's Children" and defines one as "a young city or suburban resident, between 15 and 25 years of age, with a zip in the stride."

"Belongs to Generation Z," it continues. "Can be male or female, studying or working. Oozes attitude, ambition and aspiration. Cool, confident and creative. Seeks challenges, loves risks and shuns fears." Indian zippies carry no guilt about making money or spending it. They are, says one Indian analyst quoted by Outlook, destination driven, not destiny driven; outward, not inward, looking; upwardly mobile, not stuck-in-my-station-in-life.

With 54 percent of India under age 25 -- that's 555 million people -- six of 10 Indian households have at least one zippie, Outlook says. And a growing slice of them (most Indians are still poor village-dwellers) will be able to do your white-collar job as well as you for a fraction of the pay. Indian zippies are one reason outsourcing is becoming the hot issue in this year's U.S. presidential campaign.

I just arrived here in Bangalore, India's Silicon Valley, to meet the zippies on the receiving end of U.S. jobs. Judging from the construction going on on every block here, the multiple applicants for every new tech job, the crowded pub scene and the families of four you see zipping around on a single motor scooter, Bangalore is one hot town.

Taking all this in, two things strike me about this outsourcing issue. One, economists are surely right: The biggest factor eliminating old jobs and churning new ones is technological change -- the phone mail system that eliminated your secretary.

As for the zippies who soak up certain U.S. or European jobs, they will become consumers, the global pie will grow, and ultimately we will all be better off. As long as the United States maintains its ability to do cutting-edge innovation, the long run should be fine. Saving money by outsourcing basic jobs to zippies, so we can invest in more high-end innovation, makes sense.

But here's what I also feel: This particular short run could be a real bear -- and politically explosive. The potential speed and scale of this outsourcing phenomenon make its potential impact enormous and unpredictable.

As we enter a world where the price of digitizing information -- converting it into little packets of ones and zeros and then transmitting it over high-speed data networks -- falls to near zero, it means the vaunted "death of distance" is really here. And that means that many jobs you can now do from your house -- whether data processing, reading an X-ray, or basic accounting or lawyering -- can now also be done from a zippie's house in India or China.

And as education levels in these overseas homes rise to U.S. levels, the barriers to shipping white-collar jobs abroad fall and the incentives rise. At a minimum, some very educated Americans used to high salaries -- people who vote and know how to write op-ed pieces -- will either lose their jobs, or have to accept lower pay or become part-timers without health insurance.

"The fundamental question we have to ask as a society is, what do we do about it?" notes Robert Reich, the former labor secretary and now Brandeis University professor. "For starters, we're going to have to get serious about some of the things we just gab about -- job training, life-long learning, wage insurance. And perhaps we need to welcome more unionization in the personal services area -- retail, hotel, restaurant and hospital jobs which cannot be moved overseas -- in order to stabilize their wages and health care benefits."

Maybe, as a transition measure, adds Reich, companies shouldn't be allowed to deduct the full cost of outsourcing, creating a small tax that could be used to help people adjust.

Either way, managing this phenomenon will require a public policy response -- something more serious than the Bush mantra of let the market sort it out, or the demagoguery of the Democratic candidates, who seem to want to make outsourcing equal to treason and punishable by hanging. Time to get real.

Thomas L. Friedman is foreign affairs columnist for The New York Times. Copyright 2004 New York Times News Service.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: generationz; india; outsourcing; thomaslfriedman; trade; zippies
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1 posted on 02/23/2004 7:56:36 PM PST by yonif
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To: yonif
robert riech is a blow hard and a economic idiot..
Ya wage insurance and more unions thats the answer!

These Zippies have the right attitude and there is the solution, If Americans wish to stay on top we had better roll up our sleeves and get that zip back in our stride.
2 posted on 02/23/2004 8:11:51 PM PST by mylife
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To: yonif
I also note that Sabi and Nandibas dont seem to have a problem making it in America, and they arent doing it by joining unions.
3 posted on 02/23/2004 8:19:59 PM PST by mylife
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To: yonif
. "For starters, we're going to have to get serious about some of the things we just gab about -- job training, life-long learning, wage insurance. And perhaps we need to welcome more unionization in the personal services area -- retail, hotel, restaurant and hospital jobs which cannot be moved overseas -- in order to stabilize their wages and health care benefits."

Unions are more or less an aristocracy. They limit the supply of workers to the benefit of their members -- and the cost of everyone else.

4 posted on 02/23/2004 8:47:15 PM PST by 537 Votes
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To: 537 Votes
"Unions are more or less an aristocracy. They limit the supply of workers to the benefit of their members -- and the cost of everyone else."

Many moons ago I kindda got sick of turning wrench's and started driving a truck (18 wheeler OTR).
A friend of mine (Andy) was an O/O and was leased on with NAVL (not a bed bugger but, with their HVP crane division). We bought another truck ('89 freight shaker COE 9 spd. His other rig was a 94 International condo box hood) and we got outta the crane division and started doing dedicated Xerox runs (still leased to NAVL).

At any rate. We used to haul a lot of freight outta their main plant in Webster NY. The dock workers (union) were making an unbelievable salary. Around $30 per hour to load freight unto the trailers. The shipping area was mostly automated. They'd punch in some numbers on the computer and then the automated rack system would bring the machines down from wherever they were and than the dock worker would shrink rap them (via another machine) and then via forklift put them into the trailer.

One extremely cold winter we were up there (Andy in his condo box, I in the Freight shaker) and we were talking to the dock supervisor and we asked him about Christmas and what they were planning to do. He said (now get this) that Xerox had offered the entire plant triple time if they'd work up to 3 days before Christmas, take off, and come back 3 days after Christmas. Work until a day before new years day, take off new years eve, new years day and the next day. The reason was they had a lot of orders that had to be shipped out.

TRIPLE time. That meant $90 per hour for the dock workers. The union had a meeting and take a wild guess what they voted, yep they voted NO. They wanted their 2 1/2 weeks off.

Andy and I told the supervisor that we'd work those two weeks for 1/2 ($45 per hour each) and that we'd work in two 12 hour shifts. I'd work the night shift with the night supervisor and Andy would work the day shift with the day super.

The supervisors (both are management) said they'd love that but, the union would consider that bringing in scabs and they'd call a strike.

Now I can't stand seeing our jobs being out sourced to other countries but, I can understand it (in some instances) because of the above encounter.

When I heard that Xerox was closing down their Webster plant and moving to Mexico, I felt bad for the family's of the workers but, I still cheered. I felt (and still feel) that if anyone would turn down $90 per hour, they deserved to loose their job.

5 posted on 02/23/2004 9:06:27 PM PST by Mikey
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To: mylife; A. Pole
If Americans wish to stay on top we had better roll up our sleeves and get that zip back in our stride.

Nah. That's not how it works.

After ten or twenty years, when almost all American jobs have been outsourced, America will be filled with unemployed poor people.

An since no one will have any money, the price of everything will fall.

It will become very cheap to live in America.

And then India will start outsourcing its jobs to us, for us to do them more cheaply than in India.

See?

6 posted on 02/23/2004 9:36:22 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: Mikey
Shows that we've become too complacent. however, this is changing, hopefully we'll regain our innovativeness and rebuild ourselves once more.
7 posted on 02/24/2004 1:49:56 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Mikey; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; Jhoffa_; FITZ; arete; FreedomPoster; Red Jones; Pyro7480; ...
I felt (and still feel) that if anyone would turn down $90 per hour, they deserved to loose their job.

Great! You just have proposed the maximum wage limit for the CEOs.

8 posted on 02/24/2004 4:45:30 AM PST by A. Pole (The genocide of Albanians was stopped in its tracks before it began.)
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To: yonif
Maybe, as a transition measure, adds Reich, companies shouldn't be allowed to deduct the full cost of outsourcing, creating a small tax that could be used to help people adjust.

They are allowed to do that?!

9 posted on 02/24/2004 4:48:18 AM PST by A. Pole (The genocide of Albanians was stopped in its tracks before it began.)
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To: mylife
These people did nothing to invent the technologies they are profiting from
\
these people did nothing to invent the time and money for the R&D to make these technologies work

These people did nothing to invest their own money to weed out bad manufacturing processes to make sure they are making the part correctly.

We handed them complete processes, industries, and the machines to do it with. And the free traitors are calling it rain on our backs.
10 posted on 02/24/2004 4:49:16 AM PST by RaceBannon (John Kerry is Vietnam's Benedict Arnold: Former War Hero turned Traitor)
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To: yonif
As long as the United States maintains its ability to do cutting-edge innovation, the long run should be fine.

Ah, there's the rub. Where do we get the talented people to do cutting-edge innovation once we have destroyed their training grounds? Excellent System Architects do not spring full-formed from the brow of a University. I wouldn't give you two cents for someone who billed himself as a System Architect but who never wrote a line of code in the real world. Likewise, how many people can successfully lead an engineering project at the technical level if they've never been a practicing engineer? Where will the innovators in computer science and engineering come from if a climate is created that discourages Americans from pursuing those fields in the U.S.? Sure, there will always be a few people who will do this, but we will have a progressively smaller pool of potential innovators to draw from. Moreover, you will have a smaller pool of supporting talent to support those innovators, and the fruit of even that reduced intellectual innovation will move overseas. The spiral will tighten.

We are actually abetting the creation of a climate where the next round of innovations and innovators will be from India and China.

11 posted on 02/24/2004 5:06:24 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Age of Reason
And then India will start outsourcing its jobs to us, for us to do them more cheaply than in India.

They'll be too smart to do that.

12 posted on 02/24/2004 5:09:44 AM PST by FITZ
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To: yonif
"Belongs to Generation Z," it continues.

Now that Gen X, Y and Z are used, I'm looking forward to seeing if the next will be Gen AA.

13 posted on 02/24/2004 5:15:25 AM PST by In_25_words_or_less
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To: FITZ
Here's how outsourcing works:

1) A VP reads an article about outsourcing. He presents it to the bigwigs. Company sees cheaper labor in India and decided to outsource tech support
2) Lay off Americans and send jobs and data to India
3) Customers complain about language skills and rude operators.
4) Company asks for relief from India, gets a promise.
5) Customers still complain. Business falls off.
6) Bigwigs demand an explanation. VP points to reduced costs as offsetting loss of revenue.
7) Business continues to fall off. Costs increase as Indians start to increase their revenue
8) VP leaves for a better opportunity, uses successful outsourcing as leverage.
9) Bigwigs figure out they have been had. Try to move tech support back to the US. Find out the Indians have a golden parachute. Bigiwgs decide to have two tech support areas, one in the US.
10) Sold to shareholders as a massive success. Downturn due to bad economy.
14 posted on 02/24/2004 5:19:03 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: RaceBannon
The reduction in prices for desktop PCs fueled the process of providing PCs for almost all office workers was made possible by outsourcing the production of PCs to Far Eastern producers. If it were not for outsourcing, there would not have been a demand for their services to begin with. I don't remember any howls of protest from the IT professionals about this.
15 posted on 02/24/2004 5:23:47 AM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: Mikey
That would play havoc with professional athletes, surgeons and entertainers.Since you are willing to set the level of wages, how about the cost of gasoline, food, clothes, housing, autos and trash pick up?
16 posted on 02/24/2004 5:49:27 AM PST by em2vn
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To: A. Pole
I felt (and still feel) that if anyone would turn down $90 per hour, they deserved to loose their job.

Great! You just have proposed the maximum wage limit for the CEOs.

Don't forget trial lawyers!

17 posted on 02/24/2004 5:54:49 AM PST by Puddleglum
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To: mylife
These Zippies have the right attitude and there is the solution, If Americans wish to stay on top we had better roll up our sleeves and get that zip back in our stride.

Just think of the great new lifestyle you can have making $2 an hour.

18 posted on 02/24/2004 6:08:50 AM PST by Alouette (Atlantis -- the Real Palestinian State)
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To: RaceBannon
'These people did nothing to invent the technologies they are profiting from \ these people did nothing to invent the time and money for the R&D to make these technologies work "

India, the country itself, may not have had much to do with the development of IT...but Indians and various flavors of chinee working here sure as hell did. Something like 45% of all startups in the area were started by chapatis.

19 posted on 02/24/2004 6:10:12 AM PST by fourdeuce82d
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To: RogueIsland
Spot on!!! Exactly right!!! You hit the nail on the head!!!

(lessee, what other cliches can I use . . . ?)

Oh! God job. Your evaluation could not have been any better. One additional point: with so many IT and high tech jobs being shipped offshore, engineering and computer science schools will start shutting down in the universities because no one will spend their money getting a degree in something that has no viable career field. With no sources for all of this "cutting edge innovation", who in America is going to be developing the "cutting edge innovation"?

We could muddle through the outsourcing of high tech jobs if we had not previously outsourced the majority of our manufacturing jobs. In the 1950s, the US had 60% of the world's manufacturing jobs. Today, we have about 25%. It's pretty hard to remain a global consumer leader, much less a world power, when so much of our revenue-generating potential is being shipped elsewhere for others to do.

The fact is, our economic bubble is about to implode and we will be the biggest losers due to the fact that corporate America is more concerned about profit margins and increasing the division between corporate CEOs and everyone else. And, there is no public policy to help retain jobs in America. Many people hate the idea of protectionism but why shouldn't we? India engages in it, as does China and a number of other countries to which we have outsourced jobs. Protectionism isn't a look backward, it's simply leveling the playing field.

Let's start leveling the playing field.
20 posted on 02/24/2004 6:13:47 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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