Posted on 02/23/2004 4:56:38 PM PST by carlo3b
THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST.. (A HIT OR A MISS?).. Live thread!Contrary to popular media pronouncements, the first of the commercial showing of this long awaited, landmark, and controversial film has already debuted and the misconceptions that the fate of this endeavor hangs in the balance.. That is HOGWASH.. The Passion of the Christ is on the brink of a record breaking opening, in spite of the limited available screens, and the all out, and outragous efforts on the part of the National Media's near unanimous rejection, and the Hollywood establishment roadblocks to stymie this motion picture and it's brilliant and courageous director/producer..
I just receive a call from friends that attended a church sponsored midday showing of the movie with more than 850 of their fellow flock. The collective response was "it was sobering and breathtaking, and they existed with a profound feeling of moral inadequacy".
I toyed with the idea of accepting an invitation to book a private showing at a local theater for this weekend, however after calling a few local churches to help fill the seats I discovered that all (I call 12) of the parishes and neighborhood churches had already secured their own private dates with sellout crowds.. Every one of them had sold the seats within a day of their announcements... I just may book a threater in three weeks for all of my friends and family, that wish to watch it again, and again..
Your comments...
This is not a matter of opinion, on your part. It is a matter of fact: it is either true or false. So let's go to the horse's mouth.
490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace."133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God's grace.
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135
492 The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son."136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love."137
493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia) and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature."138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long. "Let it be done to me according to your word . . ."
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."139 Thus, giving her consent to God's word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God's grace:140 As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race."141 Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert . . .: "The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."142 Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."143
Thus it is shown that the Catholic Church clearly and unmistakably understands Mary, the mother of Jesus to be a woman, a creature. She is specially graced by God, but in no way equal to God.So we see that your statement is, in fact, FALSE. You now know that your statement is false. If you have anything remotely resembling integrity, you will IMMEDIATELY retract your proven false accusation of "Maryolatry". To make false statements, not knowing better, is ignorance. Ignorance is curable. To knowingly make false statements is lying; it is bearing false witness against your neighbor. I'm sure you don't want to do that.
I await your retraction and apology.
Now you can spin and sputter and stick your fingers in your ears and scream "I don't hear you" all you like, but your spin, sputter, finger sticking and screaming don't change the facts. I've rubbed your nose in the truth. Maybe you don't like it, but you CANNOT claim not to know what the Catholic Church actually teaches, and you CANNOT claim that her teaching is consistent with your accusation.
You CAN retract your false accusation. Or you can stand naked in the public square, revealed as a liar.
Your choice.
Not only that, I proved it, by citing actual Church documents. Your spin and sputter don't change that simple fact.
You insist that the Church "holds Mary equal to Christ. If not superior", in the face of incontrovertable proof that the Church considers her a mere creature. That is not "arguing technicalities". That is deliberately and willfully misrepresenting the beliefs of others.
That is against Scripture. It is bearing false witness against your neighbor.
The issue here is not your Reformed Theology vs my Catholic Theology. The issue is your misrepresentations of Catholic Theology vs my accurate, primary source quoting of Catholic Theology. Capisce?
BTW, I saw the movie today. If you have never seen violence, and you care not to ever see it, then don't go to this movie. The story follows the 14 stations of the cross, so I can see how a Catholic would appreciate this film more. I grew up a Catholic, but I am a Baptist now. I must admit that when Jesus reached the fourth station...I wept. This is a very powerful movie. I recommend it, and I thank Y'shua for my salvation.
From the footnotes:
Footnotes
1 [1-12] In Matthew 7:1 Matthew returns to the basic traditional material of the sermon (Luke 6:37-38, 41-42). The governing thought is the correspondence between conduct toward one's fellows and God's conduct toward the one so acting.
2 [1] This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Matthew 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one's own faults.
And therefore his removals are INFALLIBLE! :)
wheeeeeee! I looooooove watching Christians fight over Jesus! The self rightous on both sides will in all likliehood burn in hell for an eternity.
Tell that to the guy in the rainbow afro sitting between the uprights.
What part of "redeemed ... by the merits of her Son" do you folks not understand?
I have nothing against Mary, but she was a sinner just like us. Does not Catholic Scripture tell us this? I do not understand why Pope Pius IX found it necessary to issue the Ineffabilis Deus when he did. Why didn't the Church leaders do this earlier if they really believed it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.