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Irreducible Complexity is an Obstacle to Darwinism Even if Parts of a System have other Functions
Discovery Institute ^ | February 18, 2004 | Michael J. Behe

Posted on 02/18/2004 3:41:01 PM PST by Heartlander

Irreducible Complexity is an Obstacle to Darwinism Even if Parts of a System have other Functions:
A Response to Sharon Begley’s Wall Street Journal Column

Michael J. Behe
Discovery Institute
February 18, 2004

In a recent column in the Wall Street Journal (February 13, 2004, Science Journal, page B1, “Evolution Critics Come Under Fire for Flaws In 'Intelligent Design'”) science writer Sharon Begley repeated some false claims about the concept of irreducible complexity (IC) that have been made by Darwinists, in particular by Kenneth Miller, a professor of biology at Brown University. After giving a serviceable description in her column of why I argue that a mousetrap is IC, Begley added the Darwinist poison pill to the concept. The key misleading assertion in the article is the following: “Moreover, the individual parts of complex structures supposedly serve no function.” In other words, opponents of design want to assert that if the individual parts of a putatively IC structure can be used for anything at all other than their role in the system under consideration, then the system itself is not IC. So, for example, Kenneth Miller has seriously argued that a part of a mousetrap could be used as a paperweight, so not even a mousetrap is IC. Now, anything that has mass could be used as a paperweight. Thus by Miller’s tendentious reasoning any part of any system at all has a separate “function”. Presto! There is no such thing as irreducible complexity.

That’s what often happens when people who are adamantly opposed to an idea publicize their own definitions of its key terms--the terms are manipulated to wage a PR battle. The evident purpose of Miller and others is to make the concept of IC so brittle that it easily crumbles. However, they are building a straw man. I never wrote that individual parts of an IC system couldn’t be used for any other purpose. (That would be silly--who would ever claim that a part of a mousetrap couldn’t be used as a paperweight, or a decoration, or a blunt weapon?) Quite the opposite, I clearly wrote in Darwin’s Black Box that even if the individual parts had their own functions, that still does not account for the irreducible complexity of the system. In fact, it would most likely exacerbate the problem, as I stated when considering whether parts lying around a garage could be used to make a mousetrap without intelligent intervention.
In order to catch a mouse, a mousetrap needs a platform, spring, hammer, holding bar, and catch. Now, suppose you wanted to make a mousetrap. In your garage you might have a piece of wood from an old Popsicle stick (for the platform), a spring from an old wind-up clock, a piece of metal (for the hammer) in the form of a crowbar, a darning needle for the holding bar, and a bottle cap that you fancy to use as a catch. But these pieces, even though they have some vague similarity to the pieces of a working mousetrap, in fact are not matched to each other and couldn’t form a functioning mousetrap without extensive modification. All the while the modification was going on, they would be unable to work as a mousetrap. The fact that they were used in other roles (as a crowbar, in a clock, etc.) does not help them to be part of a mousetrap. As a matter of fact, their previous functions make them ill-suited for virtually any new role as part of a complex system.

Darwin’s Black Box, page 66.

The reason why a separate function for the individual parts does not solve the problem of IC is because IC is concerned with the function of the system:
By irreducibly complex I mean a single system which is composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, and where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning.

Darwin’s Black Box, page 39.

The system can have its own function, different from any of the parts. Any individual function of a part does not explain the separate function of the system.

Miller applies his crackerjack reasoning not only to the mousetrap, but also to the bacterial flagellum--the extremely sophisticated, ultra complex biological outboard motor that bacteria use to swim, which I had discussed in Darwin’s Black Box and which has becoming something of a poster child for intelligent design. No wonder, since anyone looking at a drawing of the flagellum immediately apprehends the design. Since the flagellum is such an embarrassment to the Darwinian project, Miller tries to distract attention from its manifest design by pointing out that parts of the structure can have functions other than propulsion. In particular, some parts of the flagellum act as a protein pump, allowing the flagellum to aid in its own construction--a level of complexity that was unsuspected until relatively recently.

Miller’s argument is that since a subset of the proteins of the flagellum can have a function of their own, then the flagellum is not IC and Darwinian evolution could produce it. That’s it! He doesn’t show how natural selection could do so; he doesn’t cite experiments showing that such a thing is possible; he doesn’t give a theoretical model. He just points to the greater-than-expected complexity of the flagellum (which Darwinists did not predict or expect) and declares that Darwinian processes could produce it. This is clearly not a fellow who wants to look into the topic too closely.

In fact, the function of a pump has essentially nothing to do with the function of the system to act as a rotary propulsion device, anymore than the ability of parts of a mousetrap to act as paperweights has to do with the trap function. And the existence of the ability to pump proteins tells us nil about how the rotary propulsion function might come to be in a Darwinian fashion. For example, suppose that the same parts of the flagellum that were unexpectedly discovered to act as a protein pump were instead unexpectedly discovered to be, say, a chemical factory for synthesizing membrane lipids. Would that alternative discovery affect Kenneth Miller’s reasoning at all? Not in the least. His reasoning would still be simply that a part of the flagellum had a separate function. But how would a lipid-making factory explain rotary propulsion? In the same way that protein pumping explains it--it doesn’t explain it at all.

The irreducible complexity of the flagellum remains unaltered and unexplained by any unintelligent process, despite Darwinian smoke-blowing and obscurantism.

I have pointed all this out to Ken Miller on several occasions, most recently at a debate in 2002 at the American Museum of Natural History. But he has not modified his story at all.

As much as some Darwinists might wish, there is no quick fix solution to the problem of irreducible complexity. If they want to show their theory can account for it (good luck!), then they’ll have to do so by relevant experiments and detailed model building--not by wordplay and sleight-of-hand.





Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and international affairs. For more information, browse Discovery's Web site at: http://www.discovery.org.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; Technical
KEYWORDS: creationuts; crevolist; evolution
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To: qam1
More "peer-review" nonsense - read it - it either is correct or not, scientifically, I don't need a group of a-holes telling me what is and is not science. Do you? Perhaps you need some more book time then?
41 posted on 02/19/2004 8:13:51 AM PST by realpatriot71 ("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
Miller's point was that the parts do have functions.

So? You can ascribe any function to anything, as Behe stated ANYTHING with mass could be a paper weight - therefore - no IC, right? Behe's point is that is doesn't matter if one of the proteins is also a proton pump - get rid of said protein and the flagellum ceases to work. It's simple, but much too honest for most.

42 posted on 02/19/2004 8:18:32 AM PST by realpatriot71 ("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
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To: realpatriot71
Behe's point is that is doesn't matter if one of the proteins is also a proton pump - get rid of said protein and the flagellum ceases to work. It's simple, but much too honest for most.

You make my point for me. You've now defined everything in the universe as irreducibly complex.

Therefore by definition evilution can't be true.

43 posted on 02/19/2004 8:33:27 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
You make my point for me. You've now defined everything in the universe as irreducibly complex. Therefore by definition evilution can't be true.

Hmmmmmmmm, ya think?

44 posted on 02/19/2004 8:35:58 AM PST by realpatriot71 ("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
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To: Heartlander
Boy this is a very religious thread, especially on the evo side.
45 posted on 02/19/2004 8:44:56 AM PST by biblewonk (I must try to answer all bible questions.)
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To: Heartlander
What a pile.
46 posted on 02/19/2004 8:53:37 AM PST by edsheppa
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To: realpatriot71
Spank'em Behe! Want to know why I believe what I do from a scientific point of view pick up Darwin's Black Box

Actually, I think your tagline better demonstrates why you believe what you believe, but that's just my opinion:

("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
47 posted on 02/19/2004 9:41:05 AM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: realpatriot71
Behe is NOT a creationist. He's an honest biochemist - few and far between these days.

Oh yes, that's readily obvious by his ICR-published articles. Give me a break.
48 posted on 02/19/2004 9:42:00 AM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: qam1; steve-b; Dimensio; PatrickHenry; VadeRetro
We should start a pool trying to guess which odd organism, morphology, or mechanism the ID crowd will pick up on next.

bombadier beetle, check
Eye, check
echo-location, check
flagella, check

Notice the bar keeps getting raised as they whittle their irreducible complexities down to nittier and grittier things. We'll be at Prions in a couple years. My guess is some sort of "mitochondrial energy source" nonsense next.
49 posted on 02/19/2004 9:50:15 AM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
I this case, the bar isn't so much being raised as being moved to another place. Behe is changing his definition of "irreducible complexity" again.
50 posted on 02/19/2004 10:02:00 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Yeah... about the only irreducibly complex thing I know of is irreducible complexity itself!

Neat trick Behe has going.
51 posted on 02/19/2004 10:06:35 AM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
I this case... should be In this case..

The spell checker said the sentence was ok.

52 posted on 02/19/2004 10:08:22 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: whattajoke
bombadier beetle,

Was this a childhood favorite of yours too?

53 posted on 02/19/2004 10:14:47 AM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: RightWingNilla
It's sad to see the indoctrination starts so young.
54 posted on 02/19/2004 10:34:03 AM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: realpatriot71
You make my point for me. You've now defined everything in the universe as irreducibly complex. Therefore by definition evilution can't be true.

Hmmmmmmmm, ya think?

So we agree that ID is not science.

55 posted on 02/19/2004 10:48:57 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: realpatriot71
by the by - Behe is NOT a creationist. He's an honest biochemist

He's a nutcase or a conman, take your pick.

56 posted on 02/19/2004 10:52:45 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Heartlander
Any time you see Evolution Theory called "Darwinism" you know that a Crevo Crapper is around.
57 posted on 02/19/2004 10:52:57 AM PST by Jeff Gordon (arabed - verb: lower in esteem; hurt the pride of [syn: mortify, chagrin, humble, abase, humiliate])
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To: whattajoke
They could just as easily recycle old arguments.

To Buckland Megatherium was an excellent creature to demonstrate the design of God for reasons which shall become apparent. Some years earlier, an almost complete skeleton of the extinct Megatherium had been brought back from the Pampas in South America. Its very grossness and bizarre structure made it remarkable. It was a good twelve feet in length, stood eight feet high, and had enormous feet a yard long. Being covered in bony armor with an unusual snout and interlocking teeth, it could not fail to attract attention. The Megatherium also gave a considerable challenge to any who wished to demonstrate design from its odd anatomy. That was a challenge Buckland could not resist.

From here:

Buckland

58 posted on 02/19/2004 10:57:26 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Heartlander
Festival of trolls placemarker.


59 posted on 02/19/2004 11:02:54 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: whattajoke
We should start a pool trying to guess which odd organism, morphology, or mechanism the ID crowd will pick up on next.

bombadier beetle, check
Eye, check
echo-location, check
flagella, check

Hey, How could you forgot another IDers favorite?

My prediction is they will stick with the Flagellum because there are so many similar abbrevations like FliP, FliR, FliQ, FliH, FliJ, F0b, FliH, FliO, mota, motb that it makes it really sounds scientific and blinds the followers by confusion which makes it hard to come up with a counter arguement that the laymen can understand.

60 posted on 02/19/2004 12:27:18 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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