***Ketchup Boy Only Served For FOUR MONTHS***

Stardate: 0402.17

[The Wizard]

We know the media shills for the democrats, but it's about time some one of the VERY FEW honest media get on this point and two others:

We want to know about those famous wounds that he takes credit for......(I'm not saying I would want them, but he is making big claims about his service) but we have a right to see the records.

All my friends had to spend 12 months in Nam....why did ketchup boy only serve 4 months and then come home and fight the war and call those poor guys without deferments baby killers and war criminals

I am telling you my friends, more is coming about what really happened in kerry's war experience, and it won't be a pretty thing to see.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Funny.



That little heavily-editted Boston Globe summary didn't mention Kerry petitioned the Navy to quit active duty (and leave his his "cushy" admiral's aide position in Boston) nearly 9 months early to go run for Congress.

It didn't mention Kerry left his river duty after 90 days ... forcing somebody else to take over his spot. A spot he had just spent a half-year easy training duty in California getting set up to do!

Gee, and here I thought Bush was the "coward" one in an easy leaving the service early!

Except Bush asked to leave when the services were down-sizing AFTER Vietnam was nearly over, and Kerry left when they needed every person they could draft!

[Robert A Cook PE]

Nope.

He can only account for Dec-Feb in country. Leaving apparently in mid-March.

[syriacus]

There is no doubt that Kerry served in combat. However, he did not willingly volunteer for combat and, once in combat, Kerry sea-lawyered himself out of combat as fast as he could for minimal injuries

You've drawn the pertinent facts together very well.

[kabar]

Based on what info? I am not ready to buy into everything on the VVAK website. Swiftboats.net provides different, conflicting information. I would like better verification before launching into a debate about this guy. We need to put the onus on Kerry to document his service so it can be researched properly.

[StriperSniper]

I read in another thread that Kerry's Swift Boat duty was coastal interdiction, not Riverine. Anyone know for certain?

Nothing certain, but there is a listing for him here:Swift Boat Crew Directory

John Forbes Kerry, LTJG, OinC 10/68-4/69 An Thoi

(He is listed on PCF 66)(Thanks again consort :)

That was in the zone on the Western coast in the Gulf of Siam, and does not include the Mekong Delta according to a map I found on another site. I'm sure there were rivers there, but I think I've heard him refer to Mekong. It will be something to listen for.

[cmsgop]

God Bless Your Son For His Service!

[syriacus]

You're going to hold that [unwillingness to volunteer for dangerous duty] against him?

I'll be glad to hold that against him, as long as Kerry lumps Guard duty together with draft dodging.

Kerry made himself fair game when he made a point of saying "many people" like Bush who served in the Guard wished to reduce the odds of their seeing combat in Viet Nam.

Kerry isn't so different than George Bush, after all.

I think Bush's record is being attacked at this time because it diverts attention from Kerry's overinflated record.

[Cuttnhorse]

I was in An Thoi, southern Phu Quoq island, and the rivers draining the coast were very shallow. We used to patrol in very close though and were often in fire fights. I was on boats 10, 45, and 51, from Dec. 1965 on...FOR 12-MONTHS!!

This part of the Gulf of Siam is very shallow and boats ran aground often.

The first PCF that was sunk by enemy fire was PCF-4, which went down in shallow water in Feb. 1966. When my boat arrived to recover bodies and help evacuate the wounded, PCF-4 was on the bottom but the water was so shallow the top of the pilot house and part of the cabin were all that was above water. The VC were in the water trying to capture the guns...we were part of a group of several boats that pounded the shore in a fierce fire-fight that lasted about an hour. None of this info is on the site either.

Basically the data on the Swift Boat site is a little incomplete and suspect. My name is misspelled and the site only lists a last name for one of my crew mates. It is volunteer work and the guy that keeps the site up has done a very good job all things considered.

I will not badmouth Kerry for the short time he spent in country, but I will never forgive him for what he did when he returned to the US. He is a traitor and this is what he should be held accountable for.

Cheers to all who served, then and now.

[syriacus]

Mention of Kerry in the Mekong Delta, from the Boston Post article

Kerry and the crew of PCF 94, a swift boat that saw heavy action on the narrow waterways of the Mekong Delta, south of Saigon, under Operation SEALORD. From left, Eugene Thorson, David Alston, Tom Belodeau, and Delbert Sandusky. (Globe Photo / Michael Medeiros)

[StriperSniper]

Thank you for your service.

I will not badmouth Kerry for the short time he spent in country

Nor I, just looking for more of his hypocrisies, since he seems to want to talk about it. The Boston Globe article in syriacus' Post#291 must have been where I saw the reference. That article paints a different picture than the one Kerry is always spouting, at least in tone.

[Polybius]

I'll be glad to hold that against him, as long as Kerry lumps Guard duty together with draft dodging. Kerry made himself fair game when he made a point of saying "many people" like Bush who served in the Guard wished to reduce the odds of their seeing combat in Viet Nam. Kerry isn't so different than George Bush, after all. I think Bush's record is being attacked at this time because it diverts attention from Kerry's overinflated record.

That is the meat of this entire sorry episode.

Normally, it would be totally inappropriate to be examining a candidate's military service to see if it was all that heroic.

However, the Democrats put this rotting dead fish on George W. Bush's table and Kerry is smiling like the cat that swallowed the canary about it while claiming that it is a problem "for Bush and the military to address."

The Democrats now accuse Bush of trying to avoiding combat by volunteering for National Guard F-102's.

However, Kerry admitted in his own words that he did exactly the same thing by volunteering for coastal patrol swift boats before he knew that Zumwalt would change the swift boat mission to riverine patrol.

Both men volunteered for duty that they believed would keep them out of combat.

It it only a matter of pure blind luck that Admiral Elmo Zumwalt had the bright idea to change the swift boat mission from coastal patrol to riverine patrol after Kerry volunteered for swift boats and that some Air Force General did not decide to get some of his Air National Guard pilots some Vietnam combat experience after Bush volunteered for the Air National Guard.

[leprechaun9]

"He was wounded."

My understanding is that he received his three Purple Hearts over a four month period AND ONLY MISSED TWO DAYS OF DUTY!

Does anyone have a source where I can verify this information?

[syriacus]

Kerry is a menace to society who consistently appeals to the worst instincts in his listeners.

I only began to notice that after he made this comment when Pickering was appointed by Bush....

"Here we are on a weekend before a national holiday when we celebrate Martin Luther King's birthday, and George W. Bush celebrates it by apponting Charles Pickering -- a known forceful advocate for a cross-burner in America

[u-89]

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's it against the Geneva Convention to administer a "coup de grace" to a wounded enemy. Would this be considered a war crime?

According to guys I talked to who were there shooting the wounded and the dead - to make sure they were dead - was standard operating procedure.

Kerry talked about atrocities committed by our troops like cutting ears off the dead. That is true to some degree. A friend of mine did that as did everyone in his squad. He has photos of them on strings they wore from their belts. He also has a photo of the cutting process in action. One fellow was arrested when his tour was up and he tried to take his string of ears home. My friend doesn't know what happened to him after that though.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Yes, I read that too.

Except there was only ONE officer assigned to teach Swift boat, and a LT was assigned the entire year in question to that boat (PCF-66).

So, not only is there no reason for two officers to be assigned, but he wasn't in-country that long (Dec-Mar best we can tell!), and the original officer was still assigned to PCF-66 as OIC while Kerry was supposedly officer-in-charge.

So, what was Kerry doing on PCF-66? (Other than complaining in a series meetings with Zumwalt and Abrams up in Saigon, that is.)

[Robert A Cook PE]

That's from Kerry's book. So we "think" he is telling the truth.

But Kerry has refused to release his medical records, navy officer records, or service data justifying his early release from active duty.

[Polybius]

My understanding is that he received his three Purple Hearts over a four month period AND ONLY MISSED TWO DAYS OF DUTY! Does anyone have a source where I can verify this information?

How about Kerry's own words?

See Post 248.

[syriacus]

By examining excerpts from the Boston Globe series one can see that Kerry remembers things differently than others do.

• Kerry remembers differently than Wasser about an old man being killed
  "Kerry said in a recent interview that he didn't remember anything about the elderly man in the water, noting that he sometimes couldn't see all of the action. But Wasser, who says his memory of the event remains vivid,"
• Kerry remembers differently than Whitlow about friendlies being gunned down
  "Kerry, asked about Whitlow's account, said he had no recollection of the episode and wondered whether Whitlow was confusing it with another event or whether he was with Whitlow on that occasion."
• Kerry remembers differently than any of his crewmates about a 12-year-old being killed.
  "The details of the episode are murky, however, because none of Kerry's crewmates remembers it the way Kerry does."

Then, there's this.....

Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds.

If Kerry's records are released will the media focus on any pages that are "missing" from Kerry's records?