Darwin's evolution ship 'found'

The Age ^ | February 15, 2004 | AAP

[yonif]

British archaeologists believed they have finally located the long-lost remnants of HMS Beagle, the ship which took Charles Darwin on the voyage during which he formulated the theory of evolution, a report says.

The fate of the Beagle, which carried Darwin for five years from 1851, has remained a mystery for more than a century.

However, according to The Observer, archaeologists using advanced ground-penetrating radar think they have found it buried under mud in a river estuary in Essex, south-east England.

"I am quietly confident we have found the Beagle," marine archaeologist Robert Prescott of Scotland's St Andrews University told the newspaper.

The radar image shows a ship similar in size to the Beagle - which was used as a customs boat after Darwin's voyage - lying under three metres of mud near a long-abandoned dock, Prescott said.

"Most of the upper part of the ship may have gone, but we have the lower part and hull, and who knows what remnants of Darwin's trip may still lie down there," he said.

"That is why this ship is so intriguing."

Darwin's voyage took him on a lengthy surveying trip of South America and the Galapagos Islands.

From notes he took about differences in birds and animal life, Darwin concluded that species change gradually over time through a process of natural selection, which benefits those best adapted to their environment.

His ideas were published in 1859 in On the Origin of Species, attracting vehement criticism from Christians before eventually becoming accepted as one of the most important scientific theories in history.

[fish hawk]

wow, his ship evolved into rot and mud.

[RightWingAtheist]

BOO!

[greenwolf]

Yet another of the fishes wandering the world's oceans with Charles Darwin:

[jonatron]

I wonder if it's grown feet by now...

[PatrickHenry]

[PetroniusMaximus]

***And I've read that grasses and trees existed before the sun did. People dream up the damndest stuff, don't they?
***


Yes and I've read that some physicists believe that everything suddenly existed where nothing did before. People do indeed dream up the most hare-brained things!

[Constitution Day]

LOL!! So that's where it is!

[Physicist]

And why does that sound hare-brained to you?

[js1138]

Because it's logically impossible for anything other than your personal deity to exist without being created. In logic there's a rule that you only get one exception to the rules of logic, and that's it.

[Physicist]

Because it's logically impossible for anything other than your personal deity to exist without being created.

OK, so by that reasoning, time must have been created. When did that happen, and what existed before?

[js1138]

I'm not sure how time was created, but noting your tagline, it speeds up a lot when children are born.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Yes and I've read that some physicists believe that everything suddenly existed where nothing did before. People do indeed dream up the most hare-brained things!

You mean the Bible, don't you?

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

It's funny how as scientists move closer to the Biblical narrative, creationists get more and more upset.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***You mean the Bible, don't you?***

No, when I said "...suddenly existed where nothing did before" I couldn't have been talking about the Biblical narrative because it quite clearly states:

"In the beginning, God..."

God was there.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***... and what existed before?***



The I AM



Exodus 3:14
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=EXOD+3:13-15&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on

[Physicist]

The I AM

Tut, tut. It was a trick question. Saying that the "I AM" came "before" presupposes the existence of time. It makes no sense to say that time came into existence after anything else. Try again.

[PetroniusMaximus]

Isn't it interesting that God refers to Himself in the present tense. Not "I WAS" or "I WILL BE"

I think it's safe to assume that God exists in a state outside of time and outside of the physical universe - a state of being that just "is" and has no past of future.

Time brings with it the inevitable concept of change. Since God is perfect, and perfection can't change, then a perfect being would have no time-reference.

The Hebrews were quite clear that God is unchanging and perfect - interesting considering they may not have been able to conceptualize a state of "no-time" in our abstract 21st century ways.

All "time" is present to Him at once - He must look on the past, present and future as we would flip pages in a book.

I think of the universe as a created bubble in the no-time God state.

[Physicist]

I think of the universe as a created bubble in the no-time God state.

Ah...so you're saying that it's not logically impossible for something to exist that is external to our space and time?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

No, when I said "...suddenly existed where nothing did before" I couldn't have been talking about the Biblical narrative because it quite clearly states:

"In the beginning, God..."

God was there.

So you think God made the universe out of himself?

I haven't seen the chapter and verse on that.

[Old Professer]

I hope the Covenant is still onboard.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Ah...so you're saying that it's not logically impossible for something to exist that is external to our space and time?***

Well if you are defining the universe as "our space and time" and the universe is the set of all things that exist then logically no - if something exists then it is part of the universe.

But as to whether God has other creation apart from this universe... I have no idea. But I kind of think He would, based on this universe He seems to be very creative! But that is pure speculation.

Now what I am saying it that someONE (not someTHING) exists outside of our time and space.

(And I know dimensionality is a TSME term, but where humans and have to talk in human terms here. I can't conceptualize a non dimensional or infinite dimensional state).