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Scientists Discover Where Snakes Lived When They Evolved into Limbless Creatures
Penn State ^ | 30 January 2004 | press release

Posted on 02/03/2004 2:37:14 PM PST by AdmSmith

The mystery of where Earth's first snakes lived as they were evolving into limbless creatures from their lizard ancestors has intrigued scientists for centuries. Now, the first study ever to analyze genes from all the living families of lizards has revealed that snakes made their debut on the land, not in the ocean. The discovery resolves a long-smoldering debate among biologists about whether snakes had a terrestrial or a marine origin roughly 150 million years ago--a debate rekindled recently by controversial research in favor of the marine hypothesis.

In a paper to be published in the 7 May 2004 issue of the Royal Society journal Biology Letters, Nicolas Vidal, a postdoctoral fellow, and S. Blair Hedges, a professor of biology at Penn State, describe how they put the two theories to the test. They collected the largest genetic data set for snakes and lizards ever used to address this question. Their collection includes two genes from 64 species representing all 19 families of living lizards and 17 of the 25 families of living snakes.

Genetic material from some of the lizards was difficult to obtain because some species live only on certain small islands or in remote parts of the world. "We felt it was important to analyze genes from all the lizard groups because almost every lizard family has been suggested as being the one most closely related to snakes. If we had failed to include genes from even one of the lizard families, we could have missed getting the right answer," Hedges explains.

"For the marine hypothesis to be correct, snakes must be the closest relative of the only lizards known to have lived in the ocean when snakes evolved--the giant, extinct mosasaur lizards," Vidal says. "While we can't analyze the genes of the extinct mosasaurs, we can use the genes of their closest living cousins, monitor lizards like the giant Komodo Dragon," he explains.

The team analyzed gene sequences from each of the species, using several statistical methods to determine how the species are related. "Although these genes have the same function in each species--and so, by definition, are the same gene--their structure in each species is slightly different because of mutations that have developed over time," Vidal explains. When the genetic comparisons were complete, Vidal and Hedges had a family tree showing the relationships of the species.

"Our results show clearly that snakes are not closely related to monitor lizards like the giant Komodo Dragon, which are the closest living relatives of the mosasaurs--the only known marine lizard living at the time that snakes evolved," Vidal says. "Because all the other lizards at that time lived on the land, our study provides strong evidence that snakes evolved on the land, not in the ocean."

The research suggests an answer to another long-debated question: why snakes lost their limbs. Their land-based lifestyle, including burrowing underground at least some of the time, may be the reason. "Having limbs is a real problem if you need to fit through small openings underground, as anybody who has tried exploring in caves knows," Hedges says. "Your body could fit through much smaller openings if you did not have the wide shoulders and pelvis that support your limbs." The researchers note that the burrowing lifestyle of many other species, including legless lizards, is correlated with the complete loss of limbs or the evolution of very small limbs.

This research was supported by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Astrobiology Institute and the National Science Foundation.

(Excerpt) Read more at science.psu.edu ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; science
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To: AdmSmith
Al Gore invented the Internet after he evolved from Snakehood.

Ops4 God BLess America!
221 posted on 02/04/2004 12:19:34 PM PST by OPS4
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To: js1138
So many simple answers here....

I am not perfect and neither is my understanding of anything.

God, however, is perfect. When perfect God tells me something that is, from all indications, literal, I believe it.

When He speaks to me in a clear use of metaphors/parables, I will interpret accordingly.

Perhaps you have some magical way of cutting through more deeply than that. At least you think you do.

If you really have read the Bible and can't see the distinction between literal and figurative, you may have not been paying close attention or ignored the context.

222 posted on 02/04/2004 12:20:20 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: CyberCowboy777
Science as a whole has left me searching not satisfied in my questions.

I have no problem with that. At least in principle. But there is a point at which not being satisfied is a symptom of refusing to eat.

When you discuss snakes eating dust you are quite willing to accept that snakes do not depend on dust for nourishment. You accept this perhaps because you have witnessed snakes eating frogs, mice or whatever. Perhaps you have studied snakes in captivity and calculated their caloric intake from various sources.

But I doubt this. I suspect you accept the statements of scientists who have done these studies. So your acceptance that snakes really live by eating other animals is really based of faith. Actually it is probably a religion.

223 posted on 02/04/2004 12:25:06 PM PST by js1138
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
...from all indications...

Your interpretation. Your list of indications. But you are not God, and your list of indications is not the only possible list.

Once more, are you perfect?

224 posted on 02/04/2004 12:28:14 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
careful... your sarcasm is beginning to rival mine!

; )
225 posted on 02/04/2004 12:30:39 PM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: js1138
I base my opinion on snakes and their eating habits upon observable fact. Having been around snakes, seen actual footage of snakes eating (I am a avid nature show viewer) and texts I have read.

I do have faith that the snakes are not simply pulling the wool over my eyes. I guess they could be faking the whole display and in fact enjoy dirt under the cover of burrow.
226 posted on 02/04/2004 12:33:45 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (Only a foolish man would seek understanding only to reject paths still unexplored.)
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To: js1138
You have placed yourself in the position of speaking for God.

Far from it, but you are incapable of understanding that too.

"The great need today then in determining what the Bible really teaches is a correct method of interpretation. If the Bible is the Word of God and God's revelation to man, then surely God would not give us His revelation without a way to discern what He meant. For God not to give us a way to interpret the Bible is to leave the interpretation of Scripture to human wisdom that is at best faulty. To have the interpretation of Scripture rest on man's wisdom is to have "flesh" interpreting that which is spiritual.

The problem today is not, that God did not give us a method of interpretation. God gave us a method, but man has refused to use it or not been diligent in seeking it! The method that God gave is the literal method, or what man has labeled the Grammatical-Historical Method. The Grammatical-Historical method interprets Scripture by taking into consideration the context of a passage, the grammatical uses of the words and the historical setting in which they were written. The literal method, "lets Scripture interpret Scripture" thus it is God who interprets His word for us. It is not a new method in any sense of the word and is the only method in which the Scriptures interpret the Scriptures. < snip >

The literal method is letting God interpret what He has said. Surely, God is best qualified to tell us what He means. The Bible is the complete word of God to man. Revelation 22:18, says man is not to add to the Word of God, the Bible. II Timothy 3:16-17, clearly states that God gave us the Bible. The verses tell us that the Bible is " . . . profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." When God "breathed" on the writers of Scripture they literally produced the Word of God, completely and accurately. The doctrine of "verbal plenary inspiration," means God chose each word God for its specific meaning. When God inspired the writers to use a word it was because that word conveyed a certain meaning. It communicated a certain meaning to those who read it. This means that if we find what was the correct meaning of the word, considering its context, normal and customary usage at the time it was used, we can know the correct interpretation."

Cooper P. Abrams, III

227 posted on 02/04/2004 12:37:00 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: VRWC_minion
God flooded the world killing all the life on earth for the sins of humans. God doesn't claim to be fair.

I'll say.

Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Oh, I could go on...
228 posted on 02/04/2004 12:38:49 PM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: whattajoke
;^)

I've never personally seen a snake eat. When I was 3 or 4, my parents kept chickens for eggs. I once saw a snake in the hen-house with what, by all indications, was an unbroken egg in its throat. I didn't see it eat, not did I dissect it. I accept it on faith that it was an egg. It might have been a dust bunny.
229 posted on 02/04/2004 12:38:58 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I don't feel like scrolling back to find it, but are you the one who said you aren't even certain God exists?
230 posted on 02/04/2004 12:39:14 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
Cooper's opinion. I do not agree.
231 posted on 02/04/2004 12:40:04 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I do not agree.

Nah....really????? I'm so shocked.

232 posted on 02/04/2004 12:41:31 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
No. But I apparently have a quite different reading of the Bible from you. When the word of the observable universe clearly differs from the stories in the Bible, I believe the universe and assume the Bible is attempting to teach a moral lesson.

That is how I interpret "all indications".

233 posted on 02/04/2004 12:43:21 PM PST by js1138
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To: AdmSmith
Snakehandlers Bump.
234 posted on 02/04/2004 12:45:53 PM PST by DoctorMichael (Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis; CyberCowboy777
To both of you. I believe what I belive becaus I can do no otherwise. I do not believe that I know everything or amd correct about everything. I believe that the universe and existence goes about its business regardless of what I understand about it or what I believe. I do not Believe that God is shocked or angered by my errors of understanding or my limitations of knowledge and intellect.
235 posted on 02/04/2004 12:48:00 PM PST by js1138
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To: DoctorMichael
Satan's 'reptilian agenda'?

236 posted on 02/04/2004 12:48:08 PM PST by evets (tagline malfunction)
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To: js1138
And I believe I can't type.
237 posted on 02/04/2004 12:48:57 PM PST by js1138
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
Evolutionists can theorize all they want, but many of us know the truth as stated in the Bible.

Speaking of truth in the Bible, maybe you can help me with this vexing issue...

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

238 posted on 02/04/2004 12:49:25 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (arabed - verb: lower in esteem; hurt the pride of [syn: mortify, chagrin, humble, abase, humiliate])
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To: js1138
You are entitled to believe whatever you want.

I choose to believe the Creator of the universe and that everything that exists could not be so were it not for Him. I also believe that He did not inspire the Bible to be a book for me to pick apart and play with to fit my observations of the world around me.

As I have said before...I take God at His word and place that trust above anything man claims.

239 posted on 02/04/2004 12:50:24 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: Jeff Gordon
You can if you figure out a way to buy them. ; *)
240 posted on 02/04/2004 12:51:31 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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