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PGA veteran Greg Norman says women should stick to their own tour
AP ^

Posted on 02/03/2004 8:12:45 AM PST by SB00

PGA veteran Greg Norman says women should stick to their own events

MELBOURNE, Australia (AP) - Greg Norman made it clear Tuesday that he believes women have no place in men's golf events.

The Australian star dismissed women in men's events as a marketing ploy, and said men's tours should consider changing their bylaws to prevent women from receiving sponsor's exemptions. "I think the situation is more of a marketing ploy than anything else," Norman said. "If the girls come out and think they can play against the guys and fail every time, that can't be very positive."

Norman's comments came three weeks after 14-year-old Michelle Wie missed the cut by a stroke in the Sony Open, a stunning effort that prompted seven other PGA Tour events to offer her exemptions.

Last year, Annika Sorenstam became the first woman in 58 years to compete on the PGA Tour, missing the cut by five shots in the Colonial.

"I'm very impressed with her game, very impressed with her attitude and demeanour at such a young age," Norman said about Wie.

"But I think the rightful place is that women play on their tour and we play on ours. It all started with Annika to promote herself and promote women's golf, but at the end of the day, it can be very detrimental."

Norman, preparing for the Heineken Classic, addressed the subject when asked to comment on Laura Davies' appearance next week in the ANZ Championship - the first start by a female player in an event sanctioned by the European and Australasian tours.

"I think everyone is just jumping on it, and it's got to stop," Norman said. "How do we stop it? It's up to our administrators to come up with the wording of our bylaws.

"The players have got to vote it in on a majority vote. We can't go play on their tour because we're not female, that's the wording they have in their bylaws. I think we should do something about it."

Ernie Els, seeking his third straight win in the Heineken Classic, said eventually men will begin complaining if women get too many sponsor's exemptions.

"I think there might be quite a few men who might oppose it," Els said. "I'm not quite sure about the future of that - how many girls are going to be good enough to play. We can't keep on giving them invites if there are guys good enough to get sponsor's exemptions."

But Els admitted that if men's golf has no bylaws preventing women from playing, and if someone such as Wie qualified to play, then they should be allowed on the men's tour.

"If they go through the tour school, they must be good enough to play," Els said. "You've got to give them a chance."

Els said that the tours around the world should come up with a uniform way of dealing with it.

"I think it's becoming a bit of an issue now," Els said. "I think the commissioners will have to start thinking about."

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem addressed the issue Sunday in Scottsdale, Ariz., at the FBR Open.

"Is it an issue if a 14-year-old gets a sponsor exemption? That's really not an issue," Finchem said. "The issue is if a tournament gives sponsor exemptions to a player or an individual who is clearly not competitive, just for publicity purposes, that's something we wouldn't care to see.

"A trend? No. If it happens once in a while, we're not going to get excited. But, you know, Michelle Wie played quite well and, at 14, if she continues to develop, I'm not sure you can make the case that she's not competitive when she misses the cut by a shot."

Norman said sponsors on the women's tours are being shortchanged.

"The other thing that I am very concerned about is in the U.S., there was a major women's sponsor, Corning Ware, sponsoring the tournament opposite the Colonial last year," he said.

"Those people put up millions of dollars to have Annika come there, but that week, they were a nonentity.

"If I were a sponsor, I'd say, 'Where is my value? My value is because I want to have Annika play, or Laura Davies, or Michelle Wie.' I feel sorry for those sponsors because they've been very much a dedicated part of women's golf. I just don't think it's right."

Norman isn't sure what he'd do if a woman was in a tournament he was scheduled to play in.

"That's a good question, it's hard for me to answer that straight off the bat," he said. "It would depend on what the golf tournament would be. I'd certainly think about it."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: golf; gregnorman; lpga; pga; sports; women
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I couldn't agree more.
1 posted on 02/03/2004 8:12:45 AM PST by SB00
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To: SB00
From the THINGS golf partner? HUMMMMM
2 posted on 02/03/2004 8:19:37 AM PST by marty60
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To: SB00
I like Norman's point that these females who think they are so good that they can compete against men (and barely can) are running a huge risk of destroying their own tour. A women's tour that doesn't even have the best female players is on a fast road to oblivion. Norman makes excellent points, these gimmicks have to stop. I hope the players act on this soon.
3 posted on 02/03/2004 8:24:32 AM PST by KellyAdmirer
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To: SB00
Norman summed it up- all marketing hype. There are only so many spots at each event, and it is a shame that players who have earned their cards loose an opportunity to play at a Tour event. How would the women's tour feel if some of the lower ranked men decided to invade their events, which are often played on easier courses?
4 posted on 02/03/2004 8:28:24 AM PST by SixIron (SixIron)
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To: SB00
Marketing ploy ??

Indeed !!

Doesn't that pretty much describe the whole purpose of the PGA ??If these guys prefer purity to money, they should stick to USGA local events.

5 posted on 02/03/2004 8:32:55 AM PST by skip2myloo
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To: KellyAdmirer
But Wie did better than Sorenstam at the age of FOURTEEN. How many male golfers could say that? Tiger maybe?

If she sticks with it, just normal development and improvement would make her competitive on the PGA tour with a chance at being a top player. Besides, if she can compete, why shouldn't she compete with the highest level of competition? If she's got the strength and skills, then why not? This isn't combat nor a full-contact sport. This is golf where one competes against a course.

6 posted on 02/03/2004 8:38:24 AM PST by LenS
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To: SB00
Isn't this pretty typical? Men's Golf has no rule against women, and simply expects people to get into the tournaments by skill. But there are loopholes that allow women to get in (through other channels, not by skill) -- and then they fail spectacularly.

Women's Golf, on the other hand, had a written rule that Men cannot play in the tournaments.

Who's inclusive? Who favors segregation? Who has a litmus test? Even the infamous Golf Club that's been in the news (Augusta?) has no actual rule against women. It simply doesn't have any women. If women ran that club, there would probably be a written rule against Men. In my experience, gender-based discrimination is almost exclusively practiced by women.

7 posted on 02/03/2004 8:41:10 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (I'm having an apotheosis of freaking desuetude)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Anika played very well against the boys. I think the pressure of the event got to her, she missed putts that are usually gimmes for her.

Still, there were several top-rated men players that missed the cut by a greater margin than she did.

Irrespective of her score, she displays a great deal more class than the pompous, overated Greg Norman.

8 posted on 02/03/2004 8:47:08 AM PST by skip2myloo
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To: SB00
We can't go play on their tour because we're not female, that's the wording they have in their bylaws.

What?? But that's discrimination!! They would deliberately exclude men?

I'm shocked....shocked, I tell ya.

NOT.

9 posted on 02/03/2004 8:49:35 AM PST by Lizavetta (Savage is right - extreme liberalism is a mental disorder.)
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To: SB00
I'm with you.
10 posted on 02/03/2004 8:50:06 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Write in Tancredo in 04'!)
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To: SB00
Greg Norman made it clear Tuesday that he believes women have no place in men's golf events.

I disagree

The Australian star dismissed women in men's events as a marketing ploy, and said men's tours should consider changing their bylaws to prevent women from receiving sponsor's exemptions.

This I agree with.

Should women be banned from the PGA Tour and PGA Tour Events? No. If they show up at Monday qualifying and earn a spot in the tournament then they should be able to play. But the sponsors exemption entry is nothing more than a marketing ploy.

11 posted on 02/03/2004 8:50:17 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: SixIron
It's not quite like that. The exemptions are given to those who do not have a Tour card. Anyone who has a card is qualified to enter the tournament, no exemption necessary. If you don't earn enough money (top 125, I think), you lose your card and have to go to Tour Qualifying School. If you make it through Q-School, you get your card for that year. If you don't, your at the whim of the sponsors and their exemptions.

The exemptions are the sole discretion of the tournament sponsor, technically. Now if they gave me an exemption, instead of a pro who had an off year and lost his card, I think that would be unfair to the pro. I have no chance of winning, he just needs to find his groove again to be competitive.

Tiger got a lot of exemptions his first year on Tour, because he did not go to Tour Qualifying School. He earned enough money in the tournaments to which he was invited to earn his card for the next year. There is a kid who is playing on exemptions right now who is playing well and will probably eanr enough money to get his card for next year, bumping someone else off the top 125.
12 posted on 02/03/2004 8:50:28 AM PST by hoppity
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To: SixIron
How would the women's tour feel if some of the lower ranked men decided to invade their events, which are often played on easier courses?

Men can't compete in LPGA events. LPGA rules stipulate that all competitors must be women. It goes even further and stipulates female AT BIRTH!

The PGA Tour has no rule stipulating that only men can compete.

13 posted on 02/03/2004 8:52:19 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: ClearCase_guy
But there are loopholes that allow women to get in (through other channels, not by skill) -- and then they fail spectacularly.

There is no "loophole" that allows women to play. The sponsors exemption can be given to any person the sponsor wants. Tiger, in his first year on tour, without going to Q school and earning his PGA Tour Card was given sponsors exemptions into 6 events. Other non-card holding players have been given the exemptions as well.

14 posted on 02/03/2004 8:54:42 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: hoppity
He earned enough money in the tournaments to which he was invited to earn his card for the next year.

He also won an event. Winning a non-major provides a 2 year exemption on the tour.

Tiger has never been to, and will never be to Q School.

15 posted on 02/03/2004 8:57:07 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: LenS
If she sticks with it, just normal development and improvement would make her competitive...

Not necessarily. In fact, she may be at her prime right now, while her body is not fully developed and still more or less boyish. It is pretty widely accepted that the mature female form has significant difficulty getting around on the swing. Other factors will also come into play as she matures. It's simply not true that a female athlete follows that same career arc as a male athlete. The peak years for a female are fewer, and they are not in their prime in their middle to late twenties, as men are, but much sooner.

There are exceptions, of course, and Wie might be one, but the odds are against her.

16 posted on 02/03/2004 9:03:14 AM PST by beckett
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To: SB00
The Australian star dismissed women in men's events as a marketing ploy..

It is interesting that the only people with the guts to speak up are from outside the US. We have created a real environment of intimidation in this country.

17 posted on 02/03/2004 9:07:48 AM PST by King Black Robe (With freedom of religion and speech now abridged, it is time to go after the press.)
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To: SB00
Norman is right. To make it right they ought to name the MPGA, just as the ladies named theirs the LPGA. OR, the men should go and start competing in LPGA events.
18 posted on 02/03/2004 9:15:06 AM PST by LandofLincoln ((THE RIGHT HAS BECOME THE LEFT))
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To: SB00
I heard Annika complain that the course was harder for her to compete on. If you are going to play with the boys you gotta play by their rules. No whining.
19 posted on 02/03/2004 9:26:05 AM PST by atomaunt
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To: LandofLincoln
"Norman is right. To make it right they ought to name the MPGA, just as the ladies named theirs the LPGA. OR, the men should go and start competing in LPGA events."

Agreed. What is so hard about this issue?

Solution:

A tour pro requests and submits registration to a LPGA event. (I'm certain LPGA has by-law language stipulation for 'Women-only' participants.)

LPGA denies entry.

Fine. PGA immediately adopts EXACT same wording of LPGA by-laws, (exchange 'women-only' text to read for 'men-only').

Done. Can't claim sex bias issues.

Case closed. Move on.
20 posted on 02/03/2004 9:50:41 AM PST by BluSky (“Don’t make me come down there.”)
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