BOYS CHOIR COVERUP

NY Post ^ | January 24, 2004

[presidio9]

Anyone who wonders why sex abuse against kids is as pervasive as it is should consider the scandal at the Boys Choir of Harlem. A report by schools investigator Richard Condon accused the choir's director, Walter Turnbull, of covering up a two-year case of abuse by a choir counselor against a student there.

[presidio9]

UNmarried homosexual predatorial pedophiles than not. Do you disagree? Marrige would be a good way to screen those types out.

Any incidence of pedophilia is unacceptable, but since 1/10 of 1% of all Catholic Priests have been found guilty, your solution sounds more like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

You are right, that Jesus never forbid marriage. But then he never married himself. There is no point is quoting scripture to someone who may or may not accept the teachings of St. Paul (a lot of non-Catholics do not), so I will not go into written justification. Sufice to say that Christ himself held the unmarried and virgins in high regard, and that the vow of celibacy is symbolic to a vocational dedication to service of the lord.

[mewzilla]

I'd like to know who caused the Dept. of Ed. to cave.

[js1138]

Only when Roman Catholic priests are finally allowed to marry will will the children of the Harlem Boys Choir be truely protected from this menace...

I hate to disillusion you, but heterosexual ministers go after girls. I worked in protective services for seven years, and it was not uncommon. Congregations generally blame the girl.

[presidio9]

I was being sarcastic.

[js1138]

Sorry if I missed the sarcasm. It's commonly put forth as a serious thought.

Organizations that deal with children need institutional solutions to this problem. It should be assumed that preditors will be attracted to children, and no adult should have complete unsupervised access to other people's children.

[Little Ray]

Historically, RC priests could marry, until the mid-late middle ages (1200-1300). The celibacy requirements had more to do with inheritance law than it did with St. Paul. Too much church property was passing out of church hands...

As for RC priests becoming synonymous with pedophiles, it is unfortunate that a few bad apples spoil the barrel, but the RC Church took wholly inadequate measures against the guilty priests. Maybe if their Bishops had not covered up for them; Maybe if the Church of Rome had excommunicated them and otherwise condemned them in accordance with canon law... But nothing like this happened, did it?

[presidio9]

As for RC priests becoming synonymous with pedophiles, it is unfortunate that a few bad apples spoil the barrel, but the RC Church took wholly inadequate measures against the guilty priests. Maybe if their Bishops had not covered up for them; Maybe if the Church of Rome had excommunicated them and otherwise condemned them in accordance with canon law...

The current "scandal" only serves as politically correct cover for those who hate the Church. They were making the same accusations long before there was any indication of a "cover-up." The "cover-up" itself is regretable, but it is really a mischaracterization of Christian teaching. And show me where "cannon law" demands that priests who have sinned be excommunicated.

[BlessedBeGod]

If the kid behind you in choir has a horrible voice, the liberals want you to be able to get counseling for PTBSD**.

**Post-Traumatic-Bad-Singing-Disorder

Ah. Just like the shrinks they have for the kids on American Idol.

[Little Ray]

If you know someone is after you, its a good idea not to give 'em any ammo, eh?

Not a Catholic; don't know their canon law. But if sodomizing a child is considered just a "sin" and not grounds for the stake or its spiritual equivalent, then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the Roman Church.

[BlessedBeGod]

It seems to me that requiring preiests to be married almost ensures you filter out the perverts.

Are you saying that there aren't any pedophiles who are married?

[Richard Kimball]

As a Protestant, my understanding may not be correct. I was under the impression that Christ's celibacy was part of the reason, but that the other part was Paul's admonition to remain unmarried if you were to be a preacher of the Gospel, so you would not get tied to earthly things, but could devote your entire life to the Lord.

From my perspective, there is a problem with child molestation within the Catholic Church, and possibly a network. While this needs to be cleaned out, the incidence of child molestation within the Church has been sensationalized because it is so shocking and because it is a method of nullifying the Church as a voice against homosexual conduct and child molestation, the former is now legalized and the latter is well on it's way to being legalized.

There is no advantage to having Priests marry. It is simply one of the cause celebs of the moment. Just as some have joined the Priesthood to cover their child molestation tendencies, so do some marry to cover their sins. The answer is a strict code of conduct and strict accountability. You can't accommodate evil in the hopes of maintaining the status quo. It is just the foothold which evil needs to move forward.

[N. Theknow]

Someone needs to explain to me what is the purpose of a Choir Counselor.

The Episcopal church calls them Bishops.

[thathamiltonwoman]

No it wouldn't. Pedophiles often get married and have families just like everybody else. They look like nice, normal guys thats how they get easy access to the kids.

[Little Ray]

Priests were marrying up until 1100s (got my estimate wrong). The issue was loss of RC Church lands and properties. Everything else was just an excuse, or maybe some misogyny.

http://pages.ivillage.com/imhabba63/marriedcatholicpriest/id75.html

This is the relevant part:
...
In the 10th and 11th centuries, the priesthood in the West, including the papacy itself, had reached a nadir of corruption. Clerical marriage and concubinage were prevalent, and church lands and properties were being lost through inheritance to the children of clergy.
...

[subterfuge]

"No, I think the priests did that to themselves."

What an asinine comment, since the vast majority of Catholic Priests are actually the exact opposite. "

I stand by my so-called asinine statement. Why hasn't the "vast majority of Catholic Priests" cleaned up the stinking mess of Catholic "leadership?" Right or wrong, and regarless of what you or I think, the vast majority of Americans aren't too trusting of said leadership.

[presidio9]

I stand by my so-called asinine statement. Why hasn't the "vast majority of Catholic Priests" cleaned up the stinking mess of Catholic "leadership?" Right or wrong, and regarless of what you or I think, the vast majority of Americans aren't too trusting of said leadership.

Catholics have only one authority to answer to, and it is not "the cast majority of Americans." I find it hard to believe that a Catholic would term Catholic leadership to be a "stinking mess." Are you one?

[realpatriot71]

Any incidence of pedophilia is unacceptable, but since 1/10 of 1% of all Catholic Priests have been found guilty, your solution sounds more like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Perhaps you're right. Do you think that the RCC's current way adressing the problem is working?

There is no point is quoting scripture to someone who may or may not accept the teachings of St. Paul (a lot of non-Catholics do not), so I will not go into written justification.

I quoted Peter, not Paul, but I'm picking nits? However, I would like to see a written justification. I don't insist on one, but I think it would be interesting to understand.

Sufice to say that Christ himself held the unmarried and virgins in high regard

Scripture?

the vow of celibacy is symbolic to a vocational dedication to service of the lord.

This makes sense, and I'm not putting down anyone who makes this perosnal choice, but why does the church insist on a non-married "priesthood"? The Bible clearly states it is good to be unmarried, but that it is also good to be married, especially if one is unable to control oneself: "for it is better to marry than burn" (1 Cor. 7:9). Why not give this option to your pastors?

[realpatriot71]

Pedophiles often get married and have families just like everybody else. They look like nice, normal guys thats how they get easy access to the kids.

True, and sometimes people who don't wear seatbelts walk away from crashes. There is an exception to every "rule" or generalization. My point was, I think it would be a good idea, BUT I'm not RC, so I was wondering why this would be a problem for your pastors and the church.

[subterfuge]

So you think that ONLY the media's influence caused Catholic leaders to be seen as corrupt? Its true that we all we ultimately answer to Him.
I noticed you agreed with post #4 which was deleted by the mod (rightly so). In accordance with the post you agreed with you must support shooting a few Catholic Priests eh? (I do NOT).

[presidio9]

Perhaps you're right. Do you think that the RCC's current way adressing the problem is working?

Sexual perversion in any population is never going to be zero. But, yes, I believe that incidents are going down now because of increased awareness.

I quoted Peter, not Paul, but I'm picking nits? However, I would like to see a written justification. I don't insist on one, but I think it would be interesting to understand.

I understand that you were talking about Peter. My point was that priestly celibacy is based on the teachings of Peter.

I make it a point not to discuss theology here. While you seem like a rational guy, there are too many religious zealots who read this site, any I don't have the patience for them. If you are sincerely interested in the scriptural justification for the practice, The Catholic Encyclopedia is a good starting point.