Mom, Apple Pie, and the Ghost of Quagmires Past

21 January, 2004 | marron

[getgoing]

Please send Steve "THANK YOU & stay safe" wishes from Dallas.

[Vigilantcitizen]

Thanks very much for the pings.

Marron, In my honest opinion, one of the best pieces I have read here at FR.

Signed,

Vigilantcitizen...

Very much an apple pie, baseball, chevrolet loving American.

[Graybeard58]

Thanks for the ping and the concern.

This hits very close to home because that's exactly where Steve is and exactly the job he is doing. I haven't heard a word from him about this incident but I guess he is ok because I did get an unrelated email from him this morning.

Maybe he thinks the old man has quit reading the news and he doesn't want to concern me about it.

[happygrl]

I am truly moved by what you have written.

This will go into my bookmarks to be printed and shared many times in the future.

Don't edit a word.

[Travis McGee]

I wouldn't edit anybody's thoughts, just some of marron's conclusions about those thoughts, and what they really mean.

[getgoing]

marron, thank you.
serurier, ping to call to your attention the thoughts of an American treasure, an American veteran. Perhaps reading this essay will add perspective to our efforts in the middle east.

[marron]

In the interest of truth in packaging, I am not a veteran.

I am obviously concerned how my piece will come across to the guys who served in Viet Nam, presumptious, maybe, or offensive in some way I didn't intend.

The piece was inspired in part by conversations, over a period of several months, with a friend who served there in the very early sixties. I like most of you here believe that despite everything, what he and the others did very much did have a purpose, that in the end we did win, and his feelings that it was all for nothing are misplaced.

His feelings that the leaders of the time were not worthy of the men they lead, that I fully agree with, and it should be a cautionary note to us now. If you put men in high office who are not worthy of the office they hold, bad things happen.

I am worried about the charges that Iraq is turning into a quagmire; it will be a quagmire if we lose heart, and lose our sense of direction. But if we hold fast, as we have in the past, we can remake reality. If we lose heart, bad men rule.

I am conscious of the corruption of the original South Vietnamese government, which made everything very difficult. Some of our leaders at the time discounted that as a factor, at the time, because many people are hesitant to inject moralism into foreign policy. Many are given over to "balance of power" calculations, and "enemy of my enemy" calculations, which certainly have their place, but if you lose track of the underlying principles that you are defending you will lose your way.

At the same time, though, it is a mistake to demand perfection from our allies. You aren't going to find it, and if you wait for it you will have no allies at all. So its a process. You have to take the help you can get, and work it. Compromise to achieve moral goals, but not only for the sake of compromise. Build alliances with flawed governments in order to defeat a gathering danger, since there are no other kinds, but not only for the sake of alliance.

A flawed ally who is prepared to fight is worth gold; a perfect ally who is not prepared to fight is worthless. But you have to keep your principles front and center, or you will lose your footing.

And I see this as a danger in Iraq, as we try to help these people pull together some kind of humane government. Balance of power considerations have their place, as we try to balance the concerns of all the various players, but always in service to moral aims. You can't expect moral perfection from flawed humanity, if you wait for it you will lose; but you have to keep track of your principles or you will lose your way.

[getgoing]

please update us, when you can.

[faithincowboys]

Well, I agree that Viet Nam was badly handled and the domestic Fifth Column helped give heart to our enemy and ate up the will at home.

It is clear that the people of that era are in positions of power that allows them to duplicate their treachery now. The media is full of the Fifth Column Leftists, as is the Democratic side of the aisle in Congress.

Let's say for arguments sake that mistakes lead us to Iraq, we're there now. The war is atleast as noble as the war in the Balkans. The Left is working hard to dispirit the whole country and the military. They are providing aid to the Baathist remnants-- a force that is clearly terroristic.

The worse thing is that the Left is doing this after they voted for the war, without a high number of casualties or
a long, protracted conflict. They are doing this and we haven't even been there one year and we have accomplished much.

The Left is showing it's ugly face and is using cynicism and anti-Americanism to push their agenda.

It's tragic what the Boomer Left is doing. As someone from the Generation they call X, I can say without reservation that the Baby Boomer Generation is the worst and most selfish generation this country has ever produced.

[faithincowboys]

But we didn't understand the enemy we faced there.

I think, in many repects, we don't understand the enemy we face in Iraq.

These things are hard, and war is ugly.

With the values we have today, we would have never won World War II or the Revolutionary War.

Watching war on tv and seeing the terrible cost is unbearable. When you add that the people providing us with the news are putting the worst possible face on all events, it is very difficult to sustain support for our efforts in Iraq. My how they have downplayed the capture of Saddam-- Kobe and Michael are given more attention than that momentous event.

I hope that most Americans share my contempt for the Left and that the American people will hand them unprecidented electoral and social defeats.

[getgoing]

"truth in advertising bump" haha. I was a kid during Vietnam, "IT" was not discussed. My connection then was knowing the guys in our tiny school might grow up to come home in bags. No answers from the TV news, which I nearly always watched.

Well, all of them did come home & the draft ended prior to our graduation. Two older students had left their heart in Vietnam, no one noticed 'till it was too late. One of the things I'm most grateful to FR for are the vets who share...even with dumb females (me). I've let veteran friends down over the years, won't happen again.

Centered & pushing forward for the right reasons perspective in your article reflects a concern I share.

[marron]

"With the values we have today, we would have never won World War II or the Revolutionary War. "

[faithincowboys]

So do you agree with that?

[marron]

Yes. It was worth repeating.

So is this: As someone from the Generation they call X, I can say without reservation that the Baby Boomer Generation is the worst and most selfish generation this country has ever produced.

As someone on the younger end of the boomer spectrum I have come to more or less the same conclusion. Notable exceptions notwithstanding, of course.

[marron]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1064604/posts
Patton's prayer

[americanSoul]

American soldiers are not tools for the use of cynical men. They are motivated by love of country, and love of the ideals that drive them, love for their buddies, and love for the families they leave behind. Such men do not fight for oil or vengeance. You have only to view the film of Americans tending to their wounded enemies, the gentleness with which they receive surrendering soldiers, to know that Americans are not motivated by hatred. They are a fit instrument only for leaders who are themselves moral men, men of character.

Without a doubt, the wisest, both in depth and breadth, post of FRep so far, IMO.

You have intrinsic knowledge of the horror of collectivism, whether of the Nazi or Soviet flavor.

Also, you define an American.

G-d Bless America, Always.

[stainlessbanner]

bttt

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[CharlesThe Hammer]

Superb discussion MARRON. Your allusion to Jacobin egalitarianism as the root of the Red Menace, and your accurate depiction of our loss of heart in the Vietnam proxy battle of the Cold War, revitalized my resolve by their allegiance to shining Truth. Your piece is not only worthy of a careful reading, it is a stern klaxton that general quarters are on for "all hands". The equivocation, revisionism, minimizing, and assorted "fifth column" ploys have begun: "The President is a draft dodger."; "The Iraq war was an engineered political trick."; "Mounting casualties in Iraq undermine the President's credibility"; "President Bush lied about WMDs"; "There is no exit strategy for Iraq". A traitor is held up as a "war hero". Victory is relabeled as defeat. A vigorous economy is harangued as a jobless depression. Honorable men are called liars. Liars swear to their calumny. It's all so familiar; 1974 all over again. This time it's going to be different. No losing heart. Semper fi.

[ThePythonicCow]

Bump, bookmark and renew my commitment.

Thank-you, marron.