Stopping Rogue Nukes (New System Scans Shipping Containers)

Popular Mechanics ^ | 01-2004 | Jim Wilson

[NewRomeTacitus]

This is very good news considering how Iran's theocracy is racing against time to develop a "Sword of Allah" for us and/or Israel before the youth movement brings it down. North Korea, on the other hand, has made fools of us by funneling previous administration's bribes (our tax dollars) directly into their nuclear arms program. Pakistan remains a wild card while Afghan Wahhabists influence that shaky government.

[Maceman]

The advantage of working with muons is that while they are plentiful as long as the sun shines, they are sufficiently rare, so each particle can be tracked as it moves through sensor grids.

Dumb question: What happens if the nuclear material is smuggled in after dark?

[templar]

Iran's theocracy is racing against time to develop a "Sword of Allah" for us and/or Israel before the youth movement brings it down

The only way I see it doing them any good (in asuaging the youth movement) is if they use it about the same time they develop it. Wonder what the better target would be for this: The U.S. or Israel? I'm thinking Israel for logistic reasons.

[Hank Rearden]

Dumb question: What happens if the nuclear material is smuggled in after dark?

Not dumb; a very insightful question. I suppose they'd have to restrict border crossings/container unloadings to daytime hours or construct artificial muon generators overhead (if such a thing is possible).

[eno_]

Wow. That is just elegant as all get out.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Would a Linear Accelarator do the job?

Would need 500 of them and a power plant for each perhaps?

If only used at night, could use some of the capacity not being used in the electrical grid.

[hang 'em]

These cosmic rays originate from the stars.

They're on 24/7

[brucecw]

Not dumb; a very insightful question. I suppose they'd have to restrict border crossings/container unloadings to daytime hours or construct artificial muon generators overhead

The question isn't dumb at all (nor is the answer), however the problem turns out not to be quite as bad as you might think. The extract from the article mentions that muons are generated from sources other than the sun, but it doesn't mention that the other sources provide a significant contribution to the muon flux through the atmosphere. The effect is that there's a lot less difference between day and night than you'd expect from the difference between sunlight and starlight.

[brucecw]

They're on 24/7

Actually one of the biggest sources appears to be the center of the galaxy ... which would have a similar problem to the location on the earth being turned away from the sun (galaxy rise/set?). However there are enough different sources that you should be able to come up with a predicted flux for each location based on the time of day and year etc. The flux never really goes to zero.

[Stirner]

"Dumb question: What happens if the nuclear material is smuggled in after dark?"

Cosmic rays stream down on the Earth from every direction all the time, not just when the Sun is shining. The most energetic ones, as I understand it, originate in supernovas and exploding stars. Any astronomers out there who can fill in the details for us amateurs?

[Hank Rearden]

The effect is that there's a lot less difference between day and night than you'd expect from the difference between sunlight and starlight.

Well, see - there you go. Comments from knowledgable people are better, in this instance, than babbling from me. I'd just assumed that the relative distances between the sun and other stars would result in a big difference in magnitude.

That's why I was just a dumb 'ol mechanical engineer instead of a smart guy.

[NewRomeTacitus]

The article's use of English was a little stilted there. As I understand it, nuclear material absorbs muons by nature and in turn emit them continuously. The sensor grids are designed to detect and pinpoint the source of muon emmissions. Night or day should not affect that detection, though the illustration acompanying the article shows a truck in a covered shed (which might speed the process by cutting down "backspatter").
This looks like it's doable.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I feel better!

Lets ping some folks!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

fyi

[Dog Gone]

This is good news. Next, we need to figure out how to do this scan from a satellite. I want to know exactly where North Korea's nukes are.

[SW6906]

Yabbutt, if this guys job had been outsourced to India, would this have been invented? ;o)

[Ichneumon]

Yabbutt, if this guys job had been outsourced to India, would this have been invented?

Maybe -- India has to worry about terrorist nukes from Pakistan. ;-)

[Ichneumon]

This is good news. Next, we need to figure out how to do this scan from a satellite. I want to know exactly where North Korea's nukes are.

I wouldn't be surprised to find if we already do exactly that.

[Ichneumon]

I feel better!

This seems like a good thread in which to mention something I've been noticing for a while now.

I first saw it (or at least first noticed it) about five years ago, then have spotted similar occurrences with increasing frequency ever since, especially after 9/11. My suspicion has been that it might be "scanning" of the sort described here, or something similar.

The odd thing I'm talking about is helicopters (no, not black ones!) hovering perfectly motionless over major highways, dead center over the road, aligned with traffic (i.e. "looking" along the path of the road itself). Sometimes they have visible "instrument pods" or something dangling below them.

It's unlikely they're traffic copters, since those don't sit motionless for long periods, they just flit from one traffic bottleneck to another. And news copters are plainly marked and also tend to circle the objects of their interest looking for various camera angles.

In fact, it's odd for a helicopter to hover motionless for a long time, *period*. It takes a lot of fuel (i.e. money) to just "park" there, and most copters are either just on their way from point A to point B, or circle some point of interest for better views. Plus it must be a lot harder for a pilot to "freeze" the craft than to just cruise around free-form (more boring, too).

And I'm talking "staying parked there for as long as I can watch them", not just for a minute or two then moving on.

The only explanation I can think of is that they're "scanning" passing traffic, like a mobile "checkpoint", especially since I see "motionless" copters *only* perfectly centered and aligned over major roads, never over some other feature.

The first one I noticed was way in the middle of freaking nowhere between Dallas and Houston (which is why it caught my attention) over I-45, and was visible (and motionless) for the long period of time it took me to first be able to see it on the horizon (a *long* way away in that flat countryside), approach it, pass under it, then have it fade away in my rear view mirror. Bizarre, especially since there was nothing in the area except scattered farms -- and the traffic on the freeway. That's an odd spot to park a copter and burn a lot of fuel just to watch... cows?

Since then, I've been more alert to the behavior of copters I see "hanging around", and over the years I've spotted dozens, usually in metropolitan areas, but always over a major road, as motionless as possible, aligned with the freeway.

NEST scanner teams, perhaps? (NEST = Nuclear Emergency Search Team, a division of the US Department of Energy).

[JustPiper]

Bump!