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1 posted on 01/10/2004 7:02:51 PM PST by freedom44
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To: freedom44
Being in the military , I've worked with a lot of guys who's wives aren't native English speakers. That's an even wider gulf than mere ethnicity, since it entails dealing with a serious cultural gap as well. In many cases, it works out very well. I don't know what the actual stats are, but those couples seem far less likely to get divorced.

As far as black and white goes, I've been with a black woman for the last ten years (on and off, but far more on than off). This has made me more attentive towards racism than I otherwise would have been, but I can't say that I've encountered more than a scattered few instances.

Most of the flak we get comes from younger black guys. It's almost always in the form of humor, but an uncomfortable, almost defensive kind. I had a black squad leader who was in shock for days when he found out. While he was very supportive, it blew his mind for some reason and lead to a lot of jokes.

From older blacks, it's completely different. We've had older blacks stop us in public and tell us what a nice couple we make and how they like seeing us together, for no reason at all. As if we were making some kind of political statement, as opposed to just buying some ice cream.

As far as whites go, aside from a very, very few instances with young or very old idiots, the normal reaction is momentary curiosity, followed by indifferance.

I encounter far more racism travelling overseas than I do at home. She thinks she gets more trouble by virute of her gender than ethnicity, and I'd be inclined to agree.

Neither the old lady nor I have had anything more than a hit and run racial comment more than every five years. Perhaps because she's working on her masters and wields an agile, biting, non-Ebonics accented command of the English language, and I have the bearing of a guy who might either reach for his knife or call his lawyer if provoked, we haven't experienced any real trouble.

123 posted on 01/11/2004 9:02:31 AM PST by Steel Wolf (- Access Denied - Enter Security Override - Override Confirmed - Tagline is now Armed -)
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Before I married She-who-must-be-obeyed, I dated several girls "outside of my race."

Was everyone I encountered happy? Nope. Did I care? Nope.

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

125 posted on 01/11/2004 9:28:12 AM PST by mhking (MaldiciĆ³n justa.)
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To: freedom44
Does anyone still care about this? Who the hell cares whether the person you're dating is black/white/yellow/red/green/purple? Why is that significant to anyone?

I would have hoped that we would have moved beyond that BS.

Newsflash - we're Americans, and shouldn't be defined by the color of our skin.

134 posted on 01/11/2004 12:19:34 PM PST by NYC Republican
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To: freedom44
I've dated a few colors in my time. I, personally, don't care what color my daughter dates as long as they're Christian, honest, intelligent, educated and from a good family. I do realize, however, that should she choose to date/marry outside her race there will be additional challenges imposed by society. But is her decision to make. I can only counsel her.
135 posted on 01/11/2004 1:13:35 PM PST by manic4organic (An organic conservative)
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To: freedom44; All
I believe FEAR

is far more of a cause component than power.

Fear arises from insecurities and aversion to, fear of that which is not LIKE US. Dissimilarity leaves a lot of people feeling at least uneasy, wary--if not plainly fearful. And, often fear quickly slides into anger, hostility, defensiveness.

It takes a centered, solid, secure person to avoid the fear pitfalls when associating with significant difference among associates. Or, at least it takes someone who was raised to ignore, neutralize, avoid insecurity based fears in the context of relationships with those significantly different.

It's somewhat psychodynamically akin to Freud's assertion about IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP phenomena--that even a religion based on love would be unloving to those not members of it. Too many less than overcoming Christians and pseudo Christians have spent centuries proving that too true.

But then, some Buddhists can be similarly violent about the issue as most certainly can Hindus and Moslems.

Only Christ sliced across all the differences on The Cross dying for ALL MANKIND (humankind for the PC addicted/challenged). Christ persistently raised respect, compassion and active caring for women, the poor, the disadvantaged, the downtrodden, the imprisoned, the attacked and dying, the different. But His disciples have felt most comfortable in little cliques of mutual bless-me clubs wherein outsiders had to jump through myriad hoops to be accepted at all--if acceptance was even possible for outsiders of any type--regardless of the propaganda from the pulpit.

In the chronic crises coming, such a hideous farcical 'Christianity' will be overcome by authentic Christianity in which individuals crossing all manner of group label lines will act AS CHRIST WOULD HAVE in their responses to those even who are quite different from them as individuals and who come from groups quite different. Christ said that if HE WERE LIFTED UP, HE WOULD DRAW *ALL* MEN UNTO HIM (humankind). He will be proving that increasingly even this year compared to last year.

The criteria will not be whether someone's birth or genetics left them markedly different or not. The criteria will be whether one Loves God wholly and their neighbor as themselves--and does unto others as they would have others do unto them. That will be sufficient similarity for unity at the foot of The Cross and shoulder to shoulder in the trenches and torture chambers inhabited by Onward Christian Soldiers.
146 posted on 01/11/2004 2:00:10 PM PST by Quix (Particularly quite true conspiracies are rarely proven until it's too late to do anything about them)
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To: freedom44
Skimming through this thread briefly, you'd think that black people were the only racist ones. Here's a racist whitey story. When I first went away to college, my father asked only one thing of me--and that was to never date a black guy.

As I have no desire to get my date shot (by dad), I won't date black men until dad dies. BTW Dad is ultra-conservative, ultra-Christian, all that. Nothing personal.
148 posted on 01/11/2004 2:06:11 PM PST by Nataku X
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To: freedom44
Why is there a bias against interracial dating?

I grew up and lived in Oklahoma until my late 30s.
The only time I heard anyone seriously torqued about an "inter-racial" couple
was from a guy with an M.S. in a science field and now a patent attorney.

I tried to say "hey, it's a big world and you're free to date anyone you want to"...
but the guy was visibly upset when a black-white couple enetered the <br.restaurant we were at.
157 posted on 01/11/2004 5:21:00 PM PST by VOA
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To: freedom44
I don't think it is a problem here, and hasn't been for many, many years!
183 posted on 01/16/2004 12:05:18 PM PST by ladyinred (W/04)
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To: freedom44
I'm probably a WASP/Irish Catholic mix but no one I know can vouch for his great-great grandmother. My extended family, a group I define as folks I'm related too and I've had Thanksgiving dinner with, include WASP's, Jews, Japanese, Filipinos, Sioux Indians, Irish, Scots, French, Afican Americans and south asian Indians.

Best friends and Godparents to my children include Italians, Chinese and a Norwegian. My daughter is dating an African-American and I can't imagine caring about something so unimportant as ethnicity.

188 posted on 08/28/2006 2:05:01 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: freedom44

I will volunteer one perspective as to why interracial dating adn marriage might not be ideal.

I will preface my remarks by noting of four divinely established institutions, created for man, believer and unbeliever alike. Regardless of one's theologic beliefs, if one abides within the framework of those institutions, success is available. Stepping out of those institutions or counterfeiting them is likely to turn blessing into cursing.

The first institution is volition. The free will of each human to make choices and exercise their heart.

The 2nd institution in marriage. God made man and then woman and they were made to complement one another. It's remarkably obvious, yet amazingly some pervert even that manifestation of creation and contrive 'alternate' arrangements.

The 3rd institution is family. Family extends for generations and worldly knowledge, possessions, and status are passed from generation to generation. Some families are blessed in remaining faithful to God for multiple generations, receiving even more rich blessings over time which would never occur to younger families, nor are even imaginable.

The 4th insitution is national or State governance. After the Tower of Babel, mulitple nations based upon language and culture were formed which lived sufficiently amongst their respective selves. In some respects, it has been said the existence of multiple nations was established to keep mankind from killing itself off. I do not know the full study of that faith, but IMHO, national governance is a fourth divinely established institution.

With this preface complete, I observe the issue of interracial dating and marriage in America.

Unlike many other nations around the globe, the US and America in particular, is somewhat of a bastard stepchild of a nation. We were formed not so much by one race or language or culture, but evolved into a prevalent mixture of races under one language and evolved culture. Some by the rebellious independent will of our ancestors, some by devout obedience through faith in Christ to God.

One can be successful and live a live relatively free of many troubles, by simply living in accords with those 4 divinely established institutions. Each of those institutions build upon their predecessor in complexity and order.

Generally speaking, social skills precede production skills, so where one is unsociable, their good for society is precluded from becoming manifest until they are socially accepted.

Many worldly people will build their image of the world upon their thinking. When reality bumps into that thinking and is contrary to those thoughts, one can either base their life upon something more faithworthy or tend to become frustrated, manifest by reaction to the event.

Believers and unbelievers are able to succeed in many aspects of life by learning to respect the volition of their fellow man, honoring the institution of marriage, living by their family, and within the bounds of national governance.

Success also tempts men to accept worldly conditions as righteous conditions. Some of those who are successful in the above four institutions, may form beliefs that their success is due their interpretations of those institutions.

Hence, the perception of family, and of legitimate governance, might be challenged and frustrated to some who have come to think of those institutions along their past experience as the cause for success.

On a sidenote, there are also those who are simply seeking a short term happiness irrespective of what God provides, and on their own free will, decide to act independent of Him. So cases do exist where sexual immorality, fornication and adultery exist as counterfeits to marriage in some interracial settings. Some observe this, then confuse familial and racial national governance as being the institutions for their success, then improperly become frustrated when they observe interracial dating or marriage.

The problems run much deeper than this. Namely, within those 4 institutions, a myriad of robust relationships, memories, blessings, trials, testings, and maturing processes occur. The timing of those testings, blessings and cursings can either work together or without synchronicity.

IMHO, our respective cultures greatly effect the inter-relationships of those tests and tribulations in life. Many who have lived with their same culture, family, marriage and volition, tend to mature better and when remaining faithful in Him, receive even greater blessings, than those who might be distracted by convoluted issues.

IMHO, the real issue isn;t race, the real issue is remaining faithful to Him in all things and let Him provide the proper spouse or companion and the logistics for family and government. It all begins with our volition complying with His will and His plan.

Diversity is no more a recipe for success than racial conformance. In many ways, diversity inhibits long-term happiness and multigenerational maturity in familial relationships.


190 posted on 08/28/2006 2:33:12 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: freedom44

It is unfortunate that the young lady had that experience, but prejudice can be found anywhere, but it is not as common as it once was. It seems from reading the article that this young lady was raised in a very sheltered environment and was unprepared for the Real World when she entered it. It’s possible that her over reaction caused the other kids (yes – fresh from collage makes them “kids”) to play it up more than they ordinarily would have.

When I was stationed at Pearl Harbor in the early 80s a Department of the Army race relations team arrived to investigate racial discrimination in the 45th Transportation Group. They were disappointed. Over half of the personnel in our company (5th TC (HB) were married to or dating a person of a different race. They could find no racial prejudice in promotions or disciplinary actions. Private interviews showed no hint of racial prejudice. They experienced much the same in the other companies they investigated and had to cut short their Hawaiian paid vacation – they could not justify holding classes to fix a nonexistent problem.
I had dated women of every race during my 40 years of having a social life. My late wife was half American Indian. I experienced signs of prejudice only once – when living in an apartment complex that had gone Section 8. My girlfriend at the time was Black and several of the Black men we encountered did not seem to approve. We ignored them.


191 posted on 08/28/2006 2:34:20 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: freedom44

Interesting. In our village in Germany we have NEVER had a racist comment. As a multiracial couple (Japanese/British) we aren't odd, we are opposite from a German/Columbian couple, and next door to a Hungarian/German couple. Only unusual thing is that neither of us German... no-one looks at us twice, unless they are interested in Japan.


193 posted on 08/28/2006 2:42:58 AM PDT by Schwaber (Schwaber)
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To: freedom44
I never really encountered overt racism until I joined the Army. After traveling the world, working with (and marrying) outside of my ethnic group, and evaluating what I saw, I think that there are three main points of modern racism.

1. American white people tend to be very subtly racist, (often without realizing it), so we're often confused and offended when someone calls us on it. Always having been the dominant group, we tend to be genuinely unaware of why other minorities would find us threatening, or unable to see what inherent advantages we have over them socially.

2. American minorities across the entire socio-economic spectrum are often openly racist, especially the ones that are most vocal about white racism. I've heard black people discuss Asians (and vice versa) in terms that few whites would ever use, even privately. We don't punish minority hate speech the way we do white hate speech, which ultimately creates more of both.

3. Other nations, on the whole, are so much more racist than America that it's off the chart. I always find it entertaining to hear people in those countries talk about 'our racial issues', or people in this country lament what a racially divided country we live in. We're so far ahead of the assimilation pack it's absurd. Other 'diverse' nations paper over their differences and pretend that they're not there, but I'd rather be a minority in America than anywhere else.

203 posted on 08/28/2006 5:57:31 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (- Islam will never survive being laughed at. -)
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