WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: Folding Knives Replace Bayonets

StrategyPage.com ^ | January 10, 2004 | Mike Perry

[John Jorsett]

Folding combat knives are replacing bayonets for many American combat troops. U.S soldiers carried a multitude of civilian manufactured folding knives into combat during the war in Iraq. Among the favorites were the Karambit, a hook shaped folding blade with lengths varying between two to four inches, weighing 3.5 to 3.8 oz.. and with an outside edge and tapered inside edge. attached to an alloy or polymer injection molded handle with an index finger ring. Developed in Indonesia during the 12th Century as a utility knife, it is known to have killed at least one an Iraqi who seized an American soldier's weapon. The soldier's unit received training on the use of the Karambit as a personal defense tool, and it paid off as the peculiar shaped knife can easily inflict a lethal wound. These knives are fairly expensive, costing $240 and up.

Other folding knives are more conventional in shape. Many Marines favored Strider knives, designed and manufactured by retired combat veterans. The Strider knives were noted for their durability and every member of the new Marine commando unit (Special Operations unit Detachment One) received a specially designed Strider knife called the SMF.

Troops are buying the folding knives to replace the M9 bayonet, which is also being replaced by multi-purpose tools for many everyday tasks. Companies like Leatherman Tool Group offer the knife-sized metal implements in a variety of models. These combat "Swiss Army Knife" items are only four inches long when closed and 6.25 inches long when opened. They are a lot cheaper than the folding knives ($50-60), but won't help you much in a fight.

[Travis McGee]

I'll pass along this tip for new arrivals. Red light traffic time is perfect for knife sharpening. Just keep your favorite Arkansas or diamond block or whatever handy, and get your various blades shaving sharp in that dead time.

By getting used to putting away and taking out whatever blade you happen to be working on, you are making yourself very nimble fingered. A knife that can be out in a flash is just about perfect if some dirtbag tries to open your door or reach in your window. (I live in Kali, guns are frowned upon in cars.)

[Squantos]

You ain't talking about the Ken Onion thang are ya ? Careful in the City of Amarillo ....they are tossing folks in jail here . The Local DA is a stoopid POS up there and they are fighting her tooth and nail over that silly crap.

Stay Safe

[Ronaldus Magnus]

I assumed that your lanyard was attached to the butt, near the extreme opposite end of the knife from the tip of the blade. If so, it would probably take less time to try it than it did for me to type up the instructions.

[PoorMuttly]

...and did I mention that my Kershaw cam-action knife is very nice...

Switchblades better than Gravity...switchblade draws faster than (real) Sheath Knife, depending..but is complicated...and better used for slashing, not full-use-without-hesitation (which if you don't do...you have handed YOUR killer the tool to do it with)...Muttly figures that IF you muster your full unhesitating determination at the instant it will save your life...even later....your equipment should be as strong and simple as possible.

...and as taught in SCUBA..."3 knives : 1 to lose, 1 to break, 1 to save your life" ....and that's not including the Bolt Cutters, Breaker Bar and ratchet collection...and Vise Grips.

"Sport Diving" is a mortal experiment too...if done correctly !

[Squantos]

Pulled it only as a deterant...the Randall 14.... I used to stick the sheath inside my waistband when I went downtown in the ME, Qatar, UAE, etc etc to the souks. I pulled it once when a little POS tried rob me at knife point. He didn't like the Randall and left thus I still have never had an actual knife fight other than training.

Stay Safe !

[PoorMuttly]

"...(a long, strong, sharp Sheath Knife), my M1A and the 1911A1 have never failed me."

Offered as a Public Service.

You wanna know "What Works..?"....

[razorback-bert]

Yes, I am.

Then she would have real fit over my Benchmade tactical.

It is a great pockerknife to have if you are working with heavy work gloves on.

Does she know Wally World sells them for $35?

[PoorMuttly]

...used a Buck hunter and Gerber Mk-1 drawn from cardboard sheaths up the field-jacket cuffs ("Taxi Driver" style) in the "Alphabet Jungle" one night...just innocently going to the Bodega, mind you...but prepared for what did happen...and it worked the same as your event...I thank GOD for us both...but I'd rather have that stuff in my hands than squeal "EEK" and roughly bleed to death...innocent and all.

Then I switched to strumgewher...and never looked back.

[Squantos]

LOL....nooooo ! I cut the shifter down and replaced the flat bar stock with hollow wide barstock to act as a sheath for the Cold Steel Push dagger blade. The push dagger handle was replaced with the hurst shifter "handle" and I added a spring detent to keep the rig in place while I shifted . All I had to do was have the new barstock material chromed to match and it really is undetectable. A quick stout pull and blade is in hand to cut whatever needs cuttin.

Stay Safe !

[Squantos]

Every knife outlet here was served notice that they can sell em but possession is a crime ?!?!?! My little sister has one and I went to peek at em at a place called Knives Plus in Wolflin Village. They had the notices all over the place and last I hear ...unsettled. I asked about my Terzoula ACTF custom folder and they said no it was fine but the Onion is "assisted" thus falls (according to her) in the switchblade catagory.

On going fiasco locally.....tread easy or call ahead ! I check again in the AM and get back to ya !

Stay Safe !

[Squantos]

LOL......I have a very old Gerber Mk 1 that has the yellow handle. One of the first ever issued to us. It's alledgedly rare as hens teeth so it's a safe queen. When Timberline out of Mancos CO was first getting their start they made a very very fine fixed blade called a Chute Knife. AWESOME !! Perfect design and weight etc etc....but they discontinued it and mine was lost so here I set all broken hearted per se !

Stay Safe PM !

[PoorMuttly]

...ahhhh...Muttly remembers the Chute Knife...


...and he paid a nickle when it was really worth something !

[Squantos]

Ya ever see another PING me !!

PLEASE !.......:o)

[Oschisms]

bump for later reading

[yarddog]

After reading the entire thread and learning a lot, I do disagree with a few things. I have always been fascinated by knives and own several hundred although only a few are really expensive.

First of all, I have never liked stainless steel. In my experience it has a slickness which does not cut well. Contrary to Mutley's experience tho, it will hold an edge. I think Buck is typical. They are very well made and hard as a rock. I don't know what the typical rockwell c hardness is but they are hard.

They would probably make excellent fighting knives and the slickness might be an advantage in stabbing.

For knives which are used hard such as cutting bushes, sticks, steaks etc. I much prefer a metal which is easy to sharpen even if it does not hold an edge as well. Just plain high carbon tool steel knives are the best all around. Probably the best combination of edge holding and sharpenability is the non-stainless Puma knives.

My Father brought back a Puma from WWII and it was a fine one. My uncle's son still has it. I bought one new in 1965 for $16 and I noticed the same knife now sells for around $250.

It seems to me that Schrade has about the best stainless knives. They are fairly easy to sharpen and seem to cut better than most stainless knives.

Probably the best combination of good quality and price to me are the Cold Steel brand using their own steel. The various military Camillus, Ontario, and Kabar knives all have that plain tool steel which has that easy sharpening feature along with good edge holding ability.

[yarddog]

I actually wondered if you had converted the shifter handle to a push knife but figured it would be so difficult that it was not likely.

I guess where there is a will, there is a way.

[Monty22]

I have 2 military spiderco's, and 2 other ones. I do agree that they are a bit 'slick' on the blade. I do like them a lot though, they've really stood up to the challenge.

[Lazamataz]

Dear Santa,

I have been a really good boy this year. Will you please bring me this knife? And can you make it a little sooner than Christmas? There's a kid on my block I want to disembowel.

Your pal,

Lazzy

[Joe Brower]

"From what I remember, don't you have to watch it with the later pre-bans?"

Watch what, good sir AAABEST? Yes, I have two Olys, one a 16" barrel with birdcage, and the other is an old-style CAR-15 (XM117E2) config. They both have bayo lugs, but I have never mounted a bayo on either. I figure if it's close enough to stab, it's close enough to shoot. $:-)

[xsrdx]

What was your "wait" time for those two knives from Nordic?

About 14 months - AFAIK, Nordic, as a Randall "dealer", gets an allocation of "slots" for whatever knives they want to order.

Depending on demand, the available slots fill and the delivery time adjusts accordingly.

Depending on when you call, you make a deposit and reserve an allocated slot for your knife.

You can get a knife earlier if a customer doesn't pick up an order, or withdraws an order, etc.

I think they also take a few slots themselves for in store, and online sales, but again you have to call at the right time to take advantage of those opportunities, which may have been the case with your 14.

The Nordic website right now indicates delivery for February 2005 for knives ordered today.

Nordic Knives