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New Space program and how Little we Know
Dobbyman, | 1/09/2004 | Dobbyman

Posted on 01/09/2004 2:12:16 PM PST by dobbyman

President Bush is about to announce a new initiative in Space.

Of course it will cost many Billions and there will be a large debate of the parochial and immediate needs of people for those billions of dollars.

I must add to this debate some facts for the proponents of the Space program.

If we try to measure the state of our Science we might realize that we are still relatively in the stone ages. And if so, then there would be still such great potential for new discovery and a commensurate great benefit to mankind.

Much in the past had been discovered and had benefited mankind when we had undertaken new great adventures for the human race.

To measure some of the potential for new discovery that may be obtained from a new great human adventure, I have listed below some things that our mainstream science and engineering do not have answers for.

1. In 1998 astronomers discovered that the universe is accelerating in its expansion. This is OPPOSITE to modern Science and to the Big Bang Theory. Modern Science expects instead that after their theoretical Big Bang that gravity from all the matter in the Universe would be slowing down the expansion of the Universe. So with the evidence of an accelerating expanding universe, the Scientific Experts must assume there is some Dark Energy causing the acceleration.

They call it “DARK ENERGY” because we cannot detect it or see it. But this Dark Energy is so powerful that it is far stronger than all the gravity from all the matter in the Universe, but we cannot detect it. WOW, are we missing it and are we in the wrong league of knowledge?!

2. After observing the bending (caused by gravity) of light traveling through the universe, Scientists calculate that we cannot directly see or detect more than 99% of mass or matter in the universe. They assume that the matter that they cannot see must cause this. They call it – DARK MATTER.

So our Science can only see less than 1% of all matter and mass that is out there even after accounting for all the Black Holes and stars and planets, etc. Boy are we again in the Wrong league of Knowledge and are not even close to understanding what space is, or and what the EARTH is as part of that same Space.

So far then - we have Dark Energy and Dark Matter that constitute most of the Universe’s power and mass but we cannot see or detect it. We certainly then know little of what we are.

3. As Important – our mainstream Engineering Experts do NOT even know what ELECTRICITY is or WHERE ELECTRICITY comes from!!!

Our Best Physicists such as the Nobel Physics prize winner – Prof Feynman - admit that Electromagnetic Science is in a SAD STATE.

The most Fundamental proposition of Physics from which much of our Scientific knowledge comes from is the “LAW of CONSERVATION of ENERGY” – that Energy cannot be destroyed or created but that it may only be converted from one form to another form of Energy.

Our mainstream belief of what ELECTRICITY is - is surreptitiously based on the assumption that the revered LAW of CONSERVATION of ENERGY does NOT work! Ha!

To understand this contradiction better, lets think about a Charge such as the Opposite charges in Static Electricity that will make the Hair on your head rise after Combing your hair. There are then Positive Charges on the COMB and Negative charges in your Hair (or maybe its the other way around) that results in an Electric Field between the opposite charges in the Brush and the Hair. You can feel the force and power of this Electric field as you see your hair move from the movement of the Comb although the comb is separated away from your hair. If you touch the comb or your hair, you might hear see and feel the Electrical Spark as the Charges are discharged.

Basically this is where we get ELECTRICITY from – from the creation of an ELECTRIC field that is created when we separate opposite charges away from each other, such that we end up with a collection of positive charges on one side and negative charges on another side. Separation of Opposite charges is called a “DIPOLE”, and when we have a Dipole of Charges we also then have an Electric Field and thus we also have an Electric Potential or Voltage as most of us know it.

We may use hydroelectric water power or steam power created by heat from the burning of Oil to produce energy that will do work to create this DIPOLE of separated charges. This would be similar to when we worked to move our hand to move the Comb through our hair to separate the opposite charges onto the Hair and Comb.

The following shows the GREAT CONTRADICTION against our most Fundamental “LAW of CONSERVATION of ENERGY”.

When we worked to separate the charges onto the Hair and onto the Comb, we only used a little amount of manual energy to do that. Also the amount of energy in the charges on the Hair and on the Comb can be calculated by simple equation. Also the size of the Electric Field or Voltage that comes from those Charges can be calculated.

If the charges on the Comb and on your Hair could be isolated so that they are not allowed to discharge thru a Spark and not allowed to slowly leak out through your hair roots and into your body and eventually to Ground, then the charges on the Comb and Hair and the Electric Field between them would last forever!!!

And as long as that Electric Field exists, there will be energy and power pouring out of those Charges. You can see and feel the effects of that energy and power as it pulls your hair to the comb!!!

The great contradiction against the LAW of CONSERVATION of ENERGY is that from those limited charges that last forever isolated onto isolated hair and Comb – we will get energy and power forever continually pouring out of those charges. As time goes by, the charge will NOT reduce as long as it is isolated and will not reduce as the hair moves as the Comb moves. So over time we can get unlimited power out of those Charges that is far greater than the energy we put into creating those charges.

Electrical Engineering and the teaching of Electrical Engineering in our Colleges conveniently avoids dealing with this greatest of Contradictions.

In effect, our mainstream belief of Electricity then surreptiously believes and assumes the existence of a Perpetual Motion Machine, although mainstream science overtly is powerfully opposed to the Concept of a Perpetual Motion machine!

Of course this position by mainstream Science and Engineering about Electricity then is totally wrong!

Imagine what the world could really accomplish if we understood where all the power really comes in the example of the energy that pours out of the dipole charges in your Hair and COMB!

Basically we are still working with the same Engineering concepts of Electricity that was invented in the 1800’s over 100 years ago.

BTW, I don’t believe other knowledgeable physicists dispute Professor Feynman on this. – it is just left better ignored – just don’t rock the boat mentality is pervasive in mainstream engineering on this.

Dobbyman


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Technical; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bearden; electricity; kookooforcococapuffs; science; space; tesla; tinfoilhatalert
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1 posted on 01/09/2004 2:12:16 PM PST by dobbyman
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To: dobbyman
Very well thought out! You show that you really know your business.
2 posted on 01/09/2004 2:20:36 PM PST by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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3 posted on 01/09/2004 2:20:59 PM PST by Support Free Republic (I'd rather be sleeping. Let's get this over with so I can go back to sleep!)
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To: dobbyman
You are really good. I fail to see the great advantage to sending men to the moon on a 1950's rocket. Money would be better spent on building a new engine source and a real space plane.
4 posted on 01/09/2004 2:21:38 PM PST by org.whodat (Someone turn Bush over he's done.)
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To: dobbyman
Excellent post. I still think the main reason we ought to go is because the day we quit exploring is the day we start acting like France.
5 posted on 01/09/2004 2:23:22 PM PST by Richard Kimball
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To: dobbyman
there will be energy and power pouring out of those Charges

The energy field will remain static [sorry], but no power will be realized unless the charge moves, and then the power realized will be less than that required to move the charge, efficiency less than 1, assuming real-world losses.

6 posted on 01/09/2004 2:26:50 PM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: dobbyman
If the charges on the Comb and on your Hair could be isolated so that they are not allowed to discharge thru a Spark and not allowed to slowly leak out through your hair roots and into your body and eventually to Ground, then the charges on the Comb and Hair and the Electric Field between them would last forever!!!

And as long as that Electric Field exists, there will be energy and power pouring out of those Charges. You can see and feel the effects of that energy and power as it pulls your hair to the comb!!!

There is no energy and power emanating from an electrostatic attratction. There is energy stored in such an arrangement, but no motion of energy. Energy only is released when it causes something to move. And once it does, the energy will be depleted, by the amount of energy put into the apparatus initially.

7 posted on 01/09/2004 2:26:56 PM PST by inquest (The only problem with partisanship is that it leads to bipartisanship)
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To: dobbyman
"Electrical Engineering and the teaching of Electrical Engineering in our Colleges conveniently avoids dealing with this greatest of Contradictions. "

Perpetual motion doesn't impres me.
What I want to know is how they get all that smoke into such tiny wires?

8 posted on 01/09/2004 2:29:17 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: Support Free Republic
Why the photoshopped picture?
9 posted on 01/09/2004 2:31:40 PM PST by WinOne4TheGipper (The Democratic Party: Without an electoral mandate for almost 28 years.)
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To: mrsmith
What I want to know is how they get all that smoke into such tiny wires?

Really? Have a lot of problem with smoke escaping from your electronics? It's a bummer when that happens. Hope it doesn't happen often.

10 posted on 01/09/2004 2:31:52 PM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: RightWhale
Sorry - the latest understanding of an electric field is that there is an outpouring of photons from the charges. It is not much different than a light source that does not move and you are standing in the light. Although you or the light source is not moving that does not mean you are not receiving the photon energy from the light. Both light and and an Electric field are forms of electromagnetic energy and both are continuously pouring out photon energy whether anything is moving or not.

This photon particle energy continues to travel to infinite space and in all radial directions for infinite time.
11 posted on 01/09/2004 2:35:18 PM PST by dobbyman
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To: dobbyman
A static electric field will not emit photons. Something must move or change.
12 posted on 01/09/2004 2:38:13 PM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: dobbyman
If you imagine a vector field, then you "extract power" when something moves down a gradient. However, before that happens, the object must have assumed its original position in the first place, which if the field has not in the mean time shut itself off, requires energy.

Gravity is this way; you can't extract energy by dropping something unless you have first expended the energy to lift it.
13 posted on 01/09/2004 3:03:04 PM PST by non-anonymous
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To: dobbyman
Sorry - the latest understanding of an electric field is that there is an outpouring of photons from the charges.

Even if that's true, these would be photons devoid of energy. A photon's energy is determined by its frequency of oscillation, and with a static field, there is no oscillation at all. Hence, the field is essentially emitting nothingness.

14 posted on 01/09/2004 3:06:04 PM PST by inquest (The only problem with partisanship is that it leads to bipartisanship)
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To: dobbyman
Sorry. Too many CAPITALISED WORDS. Immediately fires up the KOOK ALARM.
15 posted on 01/09/2004 3:57:56 PM PST by orionblamblam
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To: dobbyman
Another thing about photons is that they have characteristics of electromagnetism. That is, an electric field will not create photons if there is no magnetic component. A magnetic component may be induced by changing or moving the electric field: then you may have photons.
16 posted on 01/09/2004 4:01:42 PM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: dobbyman
I recommend you pick up a copy of Morse & Feshbach, Methods of Theoretical Physics. Memorize Maxwell's Equations and the continuity equation, study the meanings of the vectors, B, D, E, H, their units of measure, then review the meanings and expression of observable measures in similar units. Review the meaning and discernment between flux and flux density. Then go through a 'history of science' or philosophy of science' study reviewing the etymology of terms such as charge, force, power, flow, flux, current, work, energy, and intensity. After reviewing these terms, then review your comments.

Electromagnetic field theory based upon the expression of Maxwell's Eqns in differential and integral formats, and perhaps even better expressed as 2nd order 2nd rank tensors, imply 7 unknowns and seven simultaneous equations to describe even the Newtonian model.

Most critics and proponents of Bearden's work are IMHO challenged to grasp 2 or three simultaneous equations expressing a static state. It is somewhat amazing how many 'professionals' in the sciences fail to grasp these meanings intuitively. They are all based upon simple principles and their accuracy is manifest in many daily assumptions.

That mix of hydrocarbons called gas, varies from state to state, elevation to elevation,....those light bulbs and pumps and motors continue to work daily,....those steel beams continue to support specific loads over decades even when these other fields are dynamically changing.

Yes, we do know quite abit about science and engineering.

Every ABET accreditted institution must teach a basic curriculum regarding these fundamentals.

Feynman's notes are good, but I'd recommend first remaining patient and perseverent in one's study and place just a little faith that perhaps over the past century a few folks do comprehend those methods and are able to quantify and qualify them rigorously.

Some of Bearden's material is an interesting read, but IMHO, he fundamentally lacks an intuitive understanding of tensors and their application in EM field theory expressions. IMHO, it might be more prudent to study quaternions and advance field theory throughout applied mathematics in that direction,...which IMHO, I suspect many have already performed.

Additional constructive mathematical work probably lies is group and set theory and number theory taking canonical form design as in Karnaugh Mapping from the digital domain and apply it universally over domains and ranges of various functions and functionals.

The first indicator that somebody might not have a sound intuition regarding electrical phenomena is when they misuse the words 'energy' for 'power'. At least most freshman college students had that right half a century ago. About 15 years ago that fundamental began to be lost.

BTW, consider the term 'scalar energy' and consider its meaning with respect to the terms mentioned above. If anything, considerable knowledge exists to direct one's scientific study to mastering tensors of rank zero and one first, then two and the associated algabraic associations when identifying these expressions with physical phenomenon.

IMHO, a simple fraud is easy to implement by using the more advanced features and terms of multivariate mathematics and then misapplying those advanced terms as building blocks of all science as void of functional meaning. If you will, it is a form of circular reasoning with a twist on the identification problem.

Scalar energy is a fun read, though, a good problem to test ones intuitive understanding of scientic terms, meanings, and identifications used throughout the past several centuries of scientific development.
17 posted on 01/09/2004 4:36:49 PM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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To: RightWhale
Additional constructive mathematical work probably lies is group and set theory and number theory ...Sorry for my choice of words,..no pun was intended. (Lie algebras)
18 posted on 01/09/2004 4:39:29 PM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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To: dobbyman; Physicist
And as long as that Electric Field exists, there will be energy and power pouring out of those Charges. You can see and feel the effects of that energy and power as it pulls your hair to the comb!!!

The great contradiction against the LAW of CONSERVATION of ENERGY is that from those limited charges that last forever isolated onto isolated hair and Comb – we will get energy and power forever continually pouring out of those charges. As time goes by, the charge will NOT reduce as long as it is isolated and will not reduce as the hair moves as the Comb moves. So over time we can get unlimited power out of those Charges that is far greater than the energy we put into creating those charges.

Bzzzt. Wrong. If you use this field to try to do WORK, the field will be lessened.

Think: Capacitor.

Physicist, dust this guy for me, wouldjya?

19 posted on 01/09/2004 4:42:28 PM PST by Lazamataz (I slam, you slam, we all slam, for Islam !)
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To: richardtavor
Very well thought out! You show that you really know your business.

I came to the opposite conclusion. ;^)

20 posted on 01/09/2004 4:44:17 PM PST by Lazamataz (I slam, you slam, we all slam, for Islam !)
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