Noah Claim Annoys Scientists

The Guardian (UK) ^ | 1-9-2004 | Duncan Campbell

[blam]

Noah claim annoys scientists

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Friday January 9, 2004
The Guardian (UK)

Noah and his ark have entered the choppy waters of a debate about the age and geological history of the Grand Canyon. For years, geologists have held that the 217-mile-long canyon in Arizona was fashioned by the Colorado river between 5m and 6m years ago, and contains some of the oldest exposed rocks on Earth.

But now a book sold in the offical Grand Canyon park bookstore suggests that it was created by the flood that is reported in the book of Genesis.

Grand Canyon: A Different View, by a local trail guide, Tom Vail, claims that years of erosion had nothing to do with the canyon's creation. Instead, its shape can be attributed to the Old Testament flood - meaning that it is only a few thousand years old.

The book's presence in the bookstore has created a rumpus between creationists and evolutionists.

Vail writes: "For years, as a Colorado river guide, I told people how the Grand Canyon was formed over the evolutionary timescale of millions of years.

"Then I met the Lord. Now, I have a different view of the canyon, which according to a biblical timescale, can't possibly be more than a few thousand years old."

The claim has prompted the American Geological Institute and seven scientific bodies to flood the National Park Service with complaints, in which they call for the book to be removed from the shop.

So far, the book remains on sale - although it has been moved from the natural sciences section to the "inspirational reading" department.

"We struggle," Deanne Adams, the park service's chief of interpretation for the Pacific region, told the Los Angeles Times.

"Creationism versus science is a big issue at some places. We like to acknowledge that there are different viewpoints, but we have to stick with the science. That's our training."

The Grand Canyon superintendent, Joe Alston, is seeking advice from National Park Service headquarters in Washington.

The book has sold out, but is being reordered.

[gobucks]

My goodness, pithy wisdom indeed....

[gobucks]

Well, technically speaking, it's the one river and ALL THE tributaries that are resp for the great width. The ice stuff is easily believable b/c of measurable rebound still going on today in Canada in nothern europe.

[gcruse]

Should I have put a </pith>?  (Pith off)

[gobucks]

Well, it can be both, a test in faith, and God being amused, and not capriciously so...but not necessarily either is true. That old earth evidence is overwhelming can't be argued with me - I've been exposed to too much evidence. That said, you are STILL right.

Other than C14, the other chronometers rely on assumptions about past events that can't be refuted in a lab under any circumstances. Their assumptions are so reasonable that they can be accepted as gospel though...to a secularist.

So, as for proving dating methods, all have their shortcomings, including c14. However, many of the other methods are plausible too....and I don't use them professionally, so I can cop out of discussing them further.

As for an object that has no age....fair enough. But I submit to you very strongly the following. If the creation evidence were iffy enough to indicate a young earth, too many would be green lighted to pure discernment based living and given no incentive to sharpen their reason.

That is why I don't claim the "scientist" title, nor the theologn...but in professional circles I can pose as either with all the other posers and be taken seriously....

That's why I wrote to Zulu about my objections to agreeing to the secularists demands that "science and religion" are seperate.

[gobucks]

Ouch, didn't know that. Good one!!

[Light Speed]

Valles Marineres...Some view the gigantic rift on Mars as the aftermath of an impactor which struck Mars on the opposite side of the planet..the outgoing transitional shock wave as the impactor tunneled deep into Mars's core region..rupturing Mars ..as the energy burst out the other side of the planet.

Wal Thornhill..of * Electric Universe conveys the theme of Electrical gouging....Valles Marineres...the arc strike action from a celestial body passing near mars...A.K.A Velikovsky type scenario.

The story of the Illiad is intersting...Mars..and Venus..warring in the heavens.

Venus [Pallus Athena]...strikes Mars in the belly....Mars roars in pain as his guts spill out!

The link below is an article at Electric Universe..the similarities of Electric Arc strike on Mars..and on Earth..focus on Grand Canyon

Mars and the Grand Canyon

[aruanan]

Noah Claim Annoys Scientists

Noah Claim Annoys Some Scientists

[gobucks]

oops. Didn't know you we're a lib, libertarian. Now I get the sarcasm....mine wasn't though.

Well, pithy on!

[labette]

I would suggest they study the book of Job. At chapter 38, God gives him a pop quiz.In chapter 40, HE describes a huge beast called "behemoth". It sounds like a dinosaur to me.

[WackyKat]

HE describes a huge beast called "behemoth". It sounds like a dinosaur to me.

No. Most Bible scholars conclude the reference was to Rosie O'Donnell

[blam]

Great picture.

[greenwolf]

At chapter 38, God gives him a pop quiz.In chapter 40, HE describes a huge beast called "behemoth". It sounds like a dinosaur to me.

Vine DeLoria says that the "water panther" of Indian legends is a stegosaur. It does have the sawteeth on its back. The pictograph at Agawa Rock is famous.

[labette]

Couldn't be Rosie. The creature is referred to several times as he or him.....er, uh, never mind.

[Axenolith]

If a group of scientists (and I'm one) spend a lot of time determining, through some accident of fate or experimental flaw, that something is "true" and are later looking to be "disproved" by by a more novel approach or new information they will fight to the death to maintain their theory. Alfred Wegner and plate tectonics is the supreme case in point. He put forth a great theory and had a bunch of young turks following and then was brutally crushed by the entrenched view. Magnetic sea floor mapping in wartime (WWII) finally vindicated him, but he died on a Greenland expedition before knowing it himself...

[labette]

An interesting picture.

[Axenolith]

Meddler... You'll ruin my asperations yet! ;)

[Axenolith]

The Grand Canyon wasn't subjected to major glaciation, to far south...

[Axenolith]

I will challenge you here to prove that you are a scientist who understands any scientific dating method beyond carbon 14

Whats so hard to understand? Other radioisotope methods are just with elements having longer half lives. Then there's isotope ratios, which assume a relatively constant rate of formation in the atmosphere (from things like solar and cosmic radiation) which is cut off at deposition (burial) or creation (like a shells formation)...

[MississippiMan]

Click here to e-mail Frances Mainella, director of the National Park Service, if you don't like the idea of pulling a book that offers an alternate view. Be polite and articulate.

MM

[LiteKeeper]

YEC BELIEVER - INTREP